The Official Presidential Election Thread - Printable Version

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - Excelsior - 11-07-2012

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - Sherman - 11-07-2012

One thing I noticed from some of the boards is that the liberals bloodlust hasn't been satisfied one bit by a win. You would think they would be in good enough of a mood to let up a bit and develop some graciousness to the other. One thing I am certain about - a conservative who loses is still happier than a liberal who wins. Even Romney was way too liberal for me and so far my day has been just great.

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - Tuthmosis - 11-07-2012

Quote: (11-07-2012 03:58 PM)Sherman Wrote:  

One thing I noticed from some of the boards is that the liberals bloodlust hasn't been satisfied one bit by a win.

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - thegmanifesto - 11-07-2012

Here is another brutal thing about the election for Republicans:

Back when the 47% comment came out Republicans thought they were going to lose.

They were thinking "Jesus, this male cheerleader queer from Kolob is the best we got? Were F*cked!"

Republicans basically gave up.

Then the first debate happened, Obama didn't show up and Republicans were like "We can will this thing!".

So then they got all emotionally invested in the election again all the way to the end.

They were spazzing out for their Male Cheerleader non stop and thought they could pull out the W.

They couldn't wait for America to be viewed by the rest of the world as dorks again, like during the Bush years.

But then they were slapped around on election day.

So the loss in extra devastating.

There sure are a lot of quiet conservative closet homosexuals today.

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - ManAbout - 11-07-2012

Quote: (11-07-2012 03:58 PM)Sherman Wrote:  

One thing I am certain about - a conservative who loses is still happier than a liberal who wins.

I guess you don't hang out on Freerepublic much? Or any of the conservative websites? Or listen to Rush Limbaugh? Or watch Fox news?

Conservatives have been bitter and angry for the last 4 years, and after last night, they are suicidal.

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - thegmanifesto - 11-07-2012

Quote: (11-07-2012 04:16 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  

Quote: (11-07-2012 03:58 PM)Sherman Wrote:  

One thing I am certain about - a conservative who loses is still happier than a liberal who wins.

I guess you don't hang out on Freerepublic much? Or any of the conservative websites? Or listen to Rush Limbaugh? Or watch Fox news?

Conservatives have been bitter and angry for the last 4 years, and after last night, they are suicidal.

Well of course Republicans are suicidal.

Being a closet homosexual will do that to you.

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - ORLY - 11-07-2012

Remember when the oj simpson verdict came out?

   

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - ManAbout - 11-07-2012

Quote: (11-07-2012 04:26 PM)ORLY Wrote:  

Remember when the oj simpson verdict came out?

Remember the last time a Republican was the POTUS?

Well, keep remembering it, because this kind of race baiting and disdain towards minorities will ensure that it is a long time before it happens again.

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - playa_with_a_passport - 11-07-2012

Quote: (11-07-2012 02:24 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  

Quote: (11-07-2012 02:07 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

And how does this have any relevance today anyhow? So we're supposed to dissolve the border now because the pilgrims weren't invited here? What do you think would happen to the economy?

How are these "illegal immigrants" hurting you? Are you willing to clean the toilets or work on california farms for 12 hours a day or in some hot kitchen in a disgusting fast food restaurant?

I don't buy the whole "immigrants do the jobs that Americans won't do" meme. There are tons of White males who are willing to do back breaking labor provided they get paid well to do it. just take a look at the North Dakota Oil fields thread. And El Jefe is correct, illegal immigrants do depress wages for Americans on the lower end of the totem pole. You can not compete with a day laborer whose living expenses are practically zero because he's living in a 1 bd apartment 10 people deep.

However, illegals aren't going anywhere and Republicans/Tea baggers are going to have to make lemon with lemonades if they don't want to end up like the Whig party. Most Latinos in the US have at least 1 relative who is here illegally so don't expect them to vote against their family members just over ideology. If I was Boehner, I would draft comprehensive immigration reform ASAP to try to take the winds out of Obama's sails and deny him his 2nd biggest legislature victory.

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - Tex Pro - 11-07-2012

It is interesting that so many Obama supporters are anti-immigrant on this thread.

Newsflash: Obama is not going to do a thing to get rid of illegals. In fact, he will probably legalize as many as he can.

Also, he doesn't need the Republicans to work with him on immigration: he can legalize through executive order just like his partial amnesty earlier this year.

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - ManAbout - 11-07-2012

Quote: (11-07-2012 04:40 PM)playa_with_a_passport Wrote:  

I don't buy the whole "immigrants do the jobs that Americans won't do" meme. There are tons of White males who are willing to do back breaking labor provided they get paid well to do it.

Nobody is going to pay you $50/hr to clean toilets. Without cheap Mexican labour, the US economy will collapse and businesses will go bankrupt.

I thought conservatives were all about letting businesses run rampant, and do what ever it takes to make a profit, whether it's polluting the environment or paying workers $1/hr if that's what it takes.

Now I see conservatives here talking about making it illegals for businesses to hire immigrants. Interfering with the free market economy? Blasphemy. What next? Make it illegal to send jobs offshore? Of course, not. They would never do that. Usual conservative hypocrisy. It suits them to blame "illegal immigrants" because that's what plays to their overwhelmingly white base.

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - Giovonny - 11-07-2012

I don't know if I'm liberal or conservative? How are these things are defined?

What makes someone a liberal?

What makes someone a conservative?

Excuse my ignorance, for most of my life, all I cared about was sports and girls.

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - chyamor - 11-07-2012

Dead candidates win elections in Florida, Alabama
http://news.yahoo.com/dead-candidates-wi...07386.html


florida not surprised, but com on alabama!

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - ManAbout - 11-07-2012

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - RandalGraves - 11-07-2012

Quote: (11-07-2012 04:18 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Well of course Republicans are suicidal.

Being a closet homosexual will do that to you.

What is this, third grade or something?

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - j r - 11-07-2012

Quote: (11-07-2012 09:38 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Guys, this is easy math.  High immigration (especially illegal) = high unemployment.

Supply and demand.  If there's more workers (supply) than jobs (demand) then there is high unemployment, more competition between workers, and lower wages.


Case in point:  Japan.  Lowest immigration rates in the developed world.  Check their unemployment rates.  Sub-6% for the last 30 years.

That's fine in theory, but that's not the way that labor markets actually work. Supply and demand need to match up before the market actually clears.  Counting the number of unemployed people in a country and comparing it to the number of vacant jobs tells you nothing.  If it did, there'd be no need for labor economics, which is about studying and explaining particular labor market mismatches.

There is simply not an over-supply of Americans sitting around waiting to take jobs picking fruit, doing construction and landscaping. More importantly, is the idea of labor mobility.  Good job markets for low-skilled labor tend to pop up someplace different than where there are lots of underemployed men living.  If immigrants didn't show up to fill job vacancies, you're assuming that wages would rise enough to get native born workers to enter the job market and fill those vacancies.  I doubt that would happen much at all.  Any of you guys know dudes who do nothing with their lives?  How many of them got off their asses and headed to the oil fields?  Maybe a few, but most don't.  Immigrants get jobs, because they go straight to where the jobs already are.  If immigrants didn't show up, most of those vacancies would go unfilled, meaning less goods and services at more expensive prices.  Less immigrants means a shittier economy.

Personally, I have no problem with a hard-working immigrant getting a job while a lazy American sits around waiting for something to magically happen in his life.  If you want to talk about ways of getting lazy Americans off their asses, fine, let's talk.  Those things have nothing to do with immigration though.  They probably involve some combination of reforming the welfare system and decreasing the level of ridiculous labor regulation. 

As for Japan, it's an interesting example, but I'm not sure why we'd want to be anything like Japan.  Japan's fertility rates are declining and it's population is aging.  Here's an interesting fact about Japan: in 1985 the average Japanese worker worked just under 2100 hours (that's a 40hr work weel); by 2010 that number had dropped to under 1700.  Japanese firms don't like to lay people off or force them to retire.  Their employment numbers are a function of companies keeping a lot of older unproductive workers around.  That's probably one of the reasons that the cost of living is so high.  And youth unemployment in Japan isn't that low either.  Their economy is atrophying exactly because they refuse to let immigrants in and help their economy keep going.

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - Avarence - 11-07-2012

Quote: (11-07-2012 03:58 PM)Sherman Wrote:  

One thing I noticed from some of the boards is that the liberals bloodlust hasn't been satisfied one bit by a win. You would think they would be in good enough of a mood to let up a bit and develop some graciousness to the other. One thing I am certain about - a conservative who loses is still happier than a liberal who wins. Even Romney was way too liberal for me and so far my day has been just great.

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - LoveBug - 11-07-2012

Nobody is against legal immigrants, and the only people in support of illegal immigration are those of Mexican descent who put their ethnic background over the laws and territorial integrity of this country

Some of the immigration reform ideas like the Dream Act I might support, as long as the country provides statutes designed so that we are not going to have another, and another generation of illegals here. Some of these laws only provide incentive to come here while the country does nothing to protect its borders

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - Samseau - 11-07-2012

Quote: (11-07-2012 05:30 PM)j r Wrote:  

If immigrants didn't show up to fill job vacancies, you're assuming that wages would rise enough to get native born workers to enter the job market and fill those vacancies.  I doubt that would happen much at all.  

I'm not sure you would doubt this, there are countless examples of wages rising to attract labor to undesirable locations.

Quote:Quote:

As for Japan, it's an interesting example, but I'm not sure why we'd want to be anything like Japan.  Japan's fertility rates are declining and it's population is aging.  Here's an interesting fact about Japan: in 1985 the average Japanese worker worked just under 2100 hours (that's a 40hr work weel); by 2010 that number had dropped to under 1700.  Japanese firms don't like to lay people off or force them to retire.  Their employment numbers are a function of companies keeping a lot of older unproductive workers around.  That's probably one of the reasons that the cost of living is so high.  And youth unemployment in Japan isn't that low either.  Their economy is atrophying exactly because they refuse to let immigrants in and help their economy keep going.

I'm not saying Japan is perfect. I know their society is totally fucked, I know they have major inflation which depresses wages and kills the youth and makes getting married a bitch, and I know their culture is hopelessly narcissistic.

But in spite of that, they get immigration right, and it's why they haven't completely blown up yet.

If they added illegals to their system they would have gone bankrupt by now, no problem. Illegals don't contribute to an economy nearly as much as they take away via healthcare and other public services.


Legal immigration, on the other hand, with well qualified applicants... totally different story. I'm in favor of increasing quotas of legal immigrants. It surely would also help a place like Japan.

But I'm talking about unchecked illegal immigration, which is bad for the economy in nearly every way.

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - R Smoov - 11-07-2012

Just keep it real man.

If you like the US go ahead.
If you hate the US alright then.
But at the end of the day know that our generations are cool with each other.

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - speakeasy - 11-07-2012

Quote: (11-07-2012 04:40 PM)playa_with_a_passport Wrote:  

I don't buy the whole "immigrants do the jobs that Americans won't do" meme. There are tons of White males who are willing to do back breaking labor provided they get paid well to do it. just take a look at the North Dakota Oil fields thread. And El Jefe is correct, illegal immigrants do depress wages for Americans on the lower end of the totem pole. You can not compete with a day laborer whose living expenses are practically zero because he's living in a 1 bd apartment 10 people deep.

Spot on. I've followed this issue pretty closely since the mid-90s. California is ground zero for this topic and it's probably the single most controversial regional issue out here. First off, I have nothing against illegal immigrants at the personal level. I totally understand what they are doing and why, and hell I just might do the same if I was in there shoes. So this isn't about hating on them. I don't expect them to care about our laws or how they got here. That's our job. At the end of the day, everybody is motivated primarily by their own financial best interests, the law takes a backseat. But I would say Americans have just as much right to be vigilant about their own self interests as well. We have millions of low-income blue collar workers in America that cannot find jobs. What do you think illegal immigration is going to do to them?? Despite the rhetoric, the majority of these immigrants are not picking strawberries in the San Joaquin valley. All 12 million of them?? Bullshit. Most of them seem to be doing construction work and other basic blue collar jobs like roofers, painters, drywallers, etc. They also work in warehouses, do gardening, work at car washes, meat packing facilities, housekeepers, cooks at restaurants. I've even personally known illegal immigrants who had white collar jobs by using faked papers. Just take something like construction and meat-peaking. These used to be solid, good-paying blue collar jobs that you could support a family on. Now you'd be lucky to make $10/hr doing this work due to competition from cheap illegal labor.

Then there are the secondary costs to society. When my mom lived out here, she was a nurse at a county hospital where they are not allowed to turn people away by immigration status. When they give birth or get sick they go to these county hospitals. She said it was like all illegals in there. Each birth at the hospital for example cost the taxpayer about $10,000. Now this kid will be a US citizen making the mother eligible for section 8 and welfare. And when the kid enrolls in school, that's $10,000 a year billed to the taxpayer. Now multiply these numbers by millions of people. There are schools in the L.A. Unified School District where illegal immigrant kids make up a damn majority of the student body. And the state and school district is already broke! Many aren't even born here by illegal immigrant mothers, they were brought here illegally at a young age. Yet we are spending billions educating nationals of another country. Does anyone really believe with their meager wages they are paying enough in taxes to offset this? This shit is insane. Would Mexico every tolerate this if the situation were reversed?? Fuck no. They have far more sense on this topic. When they get illegals coming into Mexico from Central America, all they are entitled to is either prison or a one-way ticket back to their country of origin. Yet they can have the audacity to lecture us about what rights we give them here.

Most middle/lower Americans are against this shit. However, the corporations and wealthy lobby behind it because it's a way of driving down the cost of labor. Reagan gave the first big amnesty. So the Republicans are bad on this issue. They give lip service to wanting to do something about, but then never do, capitulating to the will of their corporate lobby. The Democrats support it because it's part of their "coalition" and it's taboo and basically "racist" among liberals to say anything critical of immigration, legal or illegal. So to them illegals are just future votes to one day harvest after they get them amnesty.

Quote:Quote:

However, illegals aren't going anywhere and Republicans/Tea baggers are going to have to make lemon with lemonades if they don't want to end up like the Whig party. Most Latinos in the US have at least 1 relative who is here illegally so don't expect them to vote against their family members just over ideology. If I was Boehner, I would draft comprehensive immigration reform ASAP to try to take the winds out of Obama's sails and deny him his 2nd biggest legislature victory.

Exactly! I have many Latino friends and I can tell you virtually all of them either a)came here illegally or b) have close family members/friends that either came illegally or are currently here illegally. When I talk to them about it, their close personal ties to the matter make it absolutely impossible for them to step back and view it objectively without their own self-interests and ethnic identity taking precedence. So they will oppose anything that makes immigration enforceable or threatens to take away any tax-payer paid benefits to them. So if you are opposed to illegal immigration as the Republican party at least on principal, there is basically nothing you can do to earn the Latino vote other than completely oppose any laws that crack down on illegal immigration. What happened here is that the issue was unaddressed for so many years that the lizard grew into Godzilla. Now you have a monster of problem that's basically intractable. Take proposition 187 in California in the mid 90s. The citizens of this state proposed to stop giving any sort of benefits to people who are here illegally. Now if you step back and be objective, that is a completely rational position by any standard. It would be in any nation anywhere on the planet. This is how Californian's voted on it:



Overwhelming yes. But the judges ended up throwing it out claiming it was unconstitutional. Can you believe that shit? It's "unconstitutional" to NOT give out benefits to illegal immigrants. Same thing with the recent Arizona law. How the fuck is it unconstitutional to enforce the laws already on the books(that are being ignored by the feds)? I can go on and on, but we let this problem explode out of control for decades and now we are stuck with it.

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - painter - 11-07-2012

Good posts. The fucked up thing about illegal immigration is that in America we elevate the illegal immigrant above the citizen. We are the only ones conducting this "experiment", every other country in the world places a high value on securing their borders. Progressive groupthink is killing this nation but apparently the majority is all for it.

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - speakeasy - 11-07-2012

Quote: (11-07-2012 04:57 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  

Nobody is going to pay you $50/hr to clean toilets. Without cheap Mexican labour, the US economy will collapse and businesses will go bankrupt.

Look what happened in Alabama when they started cracking down on illegal immigration:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-blog...0136/posts

The US economy will collapse without Mexican laborers? Wow. Makes me wonder how places like Vermont and Wisconsin manage to survive. I mean who cleans toilets in Maine? There are lots of farms in New England, are there Mexicans doing all that up there too?

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - _GQ_ - 11-07-2012

'Racism still alive they just re-concealing it'

http://jezebel.com/5958490/twitter-racis.../gallery/1

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The Official Presidential Election Thread - Idlenations - 11-07-2012

As a brit I honestly could not give a fuck about the US election as far as i see the usa has been run like a oligarchy for past few decades, i'm more concerned about people who eat pizza with a knife and fork, who are they trying to impress?

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