Having a Crisis of Faith - Printable Version
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Having a Crisis of Faith - Dr. Howard - 08-15-2015
came into this thread assuming 'crisis of faith' had something to do with religion.
That being said, if you are 22 with 51 notches and still suffering from insecurity and/or game obsession it may be a good time to pick up a bible and head to church. You'll stop feeling bad for yourself when you run into people there that are old, degenerate and/or disfigured but have incredibly positive personalities despite no hope of banging even a 3. Being in Alberta you can find some legit churches vs...Ontario.
Like Scorpion said, beware of becoming addicted and chasing the next notch just for the sake of a new pussy. Nothing magical happens when you hit notch 100. Good game is about building confidence and technique to be able to approach the girls you want, not out compete your buddy.
Enjoy the bangs as they come.
Having a Crisis of Faith - robreke - 08-15-2015
Better you learn this at an early age than an older age: There will always be those better looking, taller, smarter, stronger, with better jobs, more money, more girls, etc.
Sometimes, you will be above many others in this world in those categories.
Life is unfair and so is the world.
Two options: Give up or press on and improve yourself.
The beauty is, you have the choice.
Having a Crisis of Faith - Vdawg - 08-15-2015
Height is definitely massive for most girls. I honestly don't think a girls definition of a good looking male face goes much past being fairly symmetrical and nothing crazy like massive ears, big nose, tiny jaw etc. if you're over 6'. It's a clear natural advantage. Height makes you significantly better looking to women than your twin who looks like you but 6in shorter
Like everyone else has said, can't add much to what everyone else has contributed. You getting bangs, stop whining. Unless the woman of your dreams dropped you for your mate mid game of course, in which case, fark that bitch.
That said, I totally feel you. One of my buds is also a true natural like that. In clubs girls actually look right at him with a 'please talk to me' expression on their face. Meanwhile they're trying to avoid eye contact with me. Like, wtf?? Definitely threw me into a crappy mood. Clearly you're doing better than me though
Having a Crisis of Faith - Valhalla - 08-16-2015
A lot of us face this issue where we assign our self esteem and ego based on our notch count, fact is. He's good looking and blessed genetically. He'll never have to try as hard and that's just a fact of life, like being born into money.
Also, it's odd you're insecure considering your high notch count, I've likely put the same amount of hours into game and have merely a fraction of that amount. You're doing very well for yourself op. Don't sweat.
Having a Crisis of Faith - ksbms - 08-16-2015
At the end of the day, no-one is responsible for the factors they can't control. Whether you're blessed with good genes or not, it is independent of the gene owner. It just happened that the evolution promotes some traits and not others. The state of nature is at odds with what we are being told - namely, that there is equality and justice for all. On the contrary. We can strive to be equal in certain respect (for example, equal pay for equal work, one vote to each person) but ultimately, who you are, is a matter of luck (or lack thereof). Of course, someone will say "but you can work hard to become better". Then, my reply would be that how hard you can work is, again, encoded in your genes. True that, environment does acts upon us too. Then again, you don't choose where you get born, who your parents are and what is your first language that you speak. What it ultimately boils down to is the old argument of determinism vs indeterminism. Some say, there is a third option - compatibilism. So far, no-one really knows what is the case really, though most scientists would say it's a bit of genetics and a bit of epigenetic factors, roughly in equal proportions.
So, what a man's got to do? You could try to adopt an intentional stance about your own and other people's behaviours and work within that framework. It may ultimately be false but, I'm afraid, there's no choice but to commit to a certain epistmic view on how things are and, if new alternative becomes more adequate, then revise and old view or abandon it completely for a new view.
Having a Crisis of Faith - The_e_man - 08-16-2015
Alright gentlemen, a thread has been posted on the Newbie Forum and I will try my best to give back to this community with what I have to offer.
I still re-read the replies on this thread constantly as there is so much fantastic advice and information. Thank you all so much.
Having a Crisis of Faith - Nascimento - 08-16-2015
OP, after reading Scorpion's advice to you, I have a little bit to add.
Stop counting your notches. You might find this difficult to do at first, but if you keep reinforcing this new mindset to yourself, you can do it.
I've certainly been with less girls than you, though I honestly have no idea what my number is. Sure, I can take a few moments and seriously reflect to determine my notch count quite accurately, but at this point--what is the point.
You'll come to realize that notch counting is entirely ego driven and is a way to compete with or impress other men.
If you're able to do this you'll see how liberating it is to not be driven by your ego.
Having a Crisis of Faith - DeepGreen - 08-17-2015
If you have 51 notches at the age of 22, and your friend is killing it way more than you, then your friend will probably be Patient Zero for several new STDs.
But in all seriousness, this isn't something to worry about. Does someone else having a billion dollar trust fund at birth invalidate learning about business/finance/entrepreneurship? Does someone being born with dual myostatin inactivation invalidate weightlifting? The answer is no.
You may be good friends with this guy, but you don't know everything going on with his life, these girls or inside of him.
I will give you a case in point. A cousin of a cousin(I'm very Hispanic) went to do his PhD at the same university as I did my undergrad and we overlapped. He appeared to be a natural, was very aggressive, able to open up anyone easily, what have you. He asked me about a few girls I was Facebook friends with and then proceeded to recount to me, unprompted, about how he had fucked them. I never saw him interact with said girls, and the girls I did see him interact with seemed less feminine and attractive than the ones he said he did hook up with. If he had hooked up with them telling me wouldn't change anything. I didn't care either way. The thing was that on multiple occasions when he got dumped by some chick he would fall into this pussy ass melancholic funk and be all aggravated and anxious that the girl was trying to get to sleep with his friends in order to get back at him.
I wondered what was the point of being such an allegedly successful poon slayer if you each chick you got with basically put you on suicide watch?
To many people who were his acquaintance I'm sure he came off as some natural who could cause chicks to get wet just by walking in the room, but to the people who knew him even just a little we saw through him for what he was, an insecure, situational paper alpha.
If at the moment of birth I was given the choice between choosing looks, money, athletic ability, intelligence, or Game, I would choose Game. Why? Because Game is applicable in all aspects of life, and it can either compensate for or help you acquire the aforementioned qualities. There's plastic surgery, you can take out loans or trade stocks or start a business, you can hit the gym and/or take steroids, you can go to the library and/or take nootropics, but if you don't have Game because you are a simp or simply refuse to try or recognize its benefits, then its over for you.
Without Game you will get played and it will happen over and over again. But if you have Game, it can't be taken away from you. Game is whats leftover when everything else is taken away for the simple reason that it is part of the foundation.
So stop worrying about your natural Adonis friend. You don't know when his looks will fade, and he may or may not know what he is doing to get these chicks. Based on what you tell us he seems to be winging it all the time and not investing anytime in self-reflection. His looks will fade, but you will always have what you learned from practicing Game.
Having a Crisis of Faith - StrikeBack - 08-18-2015
I've seen guys with the OP's mentality outside of Game, in other fields, ranging from sports to arts to STEM. They're only good at one thing (all eggs in one basket) and the moment they get eclipsed by someone else in that same field, they break down.
Regarding very good-looking buddies, I have one like that, which I've mentioned from time to time here. The guy makes girls go rubber-necked trying to get second looks at him. When we were hanging out, I'd be invisible to women, and I'm not a bad looking guy to begin with.
Fast forward about 7 years, we're now in our early 30s. I haven't caught up with him as much lately as he lives in another country and is in a serious relationship, but we did hang out this summer for a week at a seaside resort. Boy, isn't my friend a fat bastard now!!! He still has the handsome face, but no girl at the bar is checking him out. They're checking *me* out instead. In the past 7 years, I've got better at style and fitness, and I'm in incredible shape compared to him.
Things can change, OP, and at 22 years old, you are already way ahead. At your age, I was still wondering why I couldn't approach girls very well.
Having a Crisis of Faith - elRey - 07-14-2016
Duuude.
Only think about what you can control, do not worry about things outside your control. Obviously
Stop bitching, seriously. So many guys have the actual issue of not being able to get girls - at all.
I lost my virginity a year ago when I was 19, totally different mindset and lifestyle. Since then, I've gone nuts and am at 32 notches. At my current rate, I should hit about 100 by the end of the year. Just started smoking cigs, rolling out solo, moved to beach, boxing, surfing on the recommendation of Gmanifesto. Basically I've modelled his behaviour as best as possible.
But you know what? I still keep getting rejected all the time. And dude, I'm fucking 6'2, blonde, solid 8/9 and dress better than anyone in places I go out to - mad sexy. Happens to ALL of us. That said, I am crazy aggressive. Maybe too aggressive. Ha.
You might think your friend is super successful with girls (so are you), but go ahead and ask him his notch count. My best friend from school who I haven't seen for a while just hung out w/ me, and he has been banging girls since he was a kid, like since 14 or something. 6 years. He's smooth as fuck, mad player, into drugs and just a completely cool guy. You know what? Only ~25 girls. LOL. ONLY. That's a LOT.
But I am so appreciative of the fact I can even go out, be young, enjoy life, and sleep with beautiful girls.
It's all part of the game. Fuck mate. You're at over 50 girls. If you aren't GRATEFUL for your life now, when the fuck WILL you be?
I WILL REPEAT:
If you aren't GRATEFUL for your life now, when the fuck WILL you be?
Having a Crisis of Faith - eradicator - 07-14-2016
Yes, stop worrying about things that are out of your control(yeah I know this thread is a year old, but it is worth saying)
Women like handsome men, that is nothing new. Don't hate on handsome men, instead concentrate on maxing out yourself through exercise, work, reading, improving yourself.
Having a Crisis of Faith - The Beast1 - 07-14-2016
Quote: (07-14-2016 01:50 AM)elRey Wrote:
Duuude.
Only think about what you can control, do not worry about things outside your control. Obviously
Stop bitching, seriously. So many guys have the actual issue of not being able to get girls - at all.
I lost my virginity a year ago when I was 19, totally different mindset and lifestyle. Since then, I've gone nuts and am at 32 notches. At my current rate, I should hit about 100 by the end of the year. Just started smoking cigs, rolling out solo, moved to beach, boxing, surfing on the recommendation of Gmanifesto. Basically I've modelled his behaviour as best as possible.
But you know what? I still keep getting rejected all the time. And dude, I'm fucking 6'2, blonde, solid 8/9 and dress better than anyone in places I go out to - mad sexy. Happens to ALL of us. That said, I am crazy aggressive. Maybe too aggressive. Ha.
You might think your friend is super successful with girls (so are you), but go ahead and ask him his notch count. My best friend from school who I haven't seen for a while just hung out w/ me, and he has been banging girls since he was a kid, like since 14 or something. 6 years. He's smooth as fuck, mad player, into drugs and just a completely cool guy. You know what? Only ~25 girls. LOL. ONLY. That's a LOT.
But I am so appreciative of the fact I can even go out, be young, enjoy life, and sleep with beautiful girls.
It's all part of the game. Fuck mate. You're at over 50 girls. If you aren't GRATEFUL for your life now, when the fuck WILL you be?
I WILL REPEAT:
If you aren't GRATEFUL for your life now, when the fuck WILL you be?
I don't think the OP is going to read that reply.
Either way, when you make women your heaven you'll never enter it. Take that for what it is worth.
Having a Crisis of Faith - Mikan - 07-14-2016
Game is a sword and a shield. Guys like the natural described in this thread often run into serious trouble in their late 20s and 30s with women. Protected by an honest understanding of female nature, an aware man can manage all his interactions with women for a lifetime to his benefit, or at the very least avoiding common pitfalls. Many naturals, blinded by a a decade of nearly effortless sex, never learn the healthy distrust of women you need to thrive as a man in our culture.
I know a guy, a fireman who works out of a station adjacent to a large university campus. He's fucking beautiful, there is no other word for it. Strange women approach him in public to tell him he is beautiful. The station was between the classroom buildings and the student housing; he would just sit in a lawn chair on the sidewalk in front of the station in his bunker pants and collect numbers while he worked. If he felt like putting some effort in, he would wash one of the trucks out front with his shirt off. Women would stare fucking slack jawed on the sidewalk. The bolder ones would actually walk up and try to touch him. I admit, he was irritating at times. If he wasn't there the girls would ask the other firemen where he was (they loved this I'm sure).
After about a decade of this, and literally hundreds of women (he has no idea the actual number, stopped counting after 100) he's 32 decides its time to settle with a "good" woman. A dance instructor from the same college he's been fishing from for 10 years. Both from Catholic families, what could go wrong? He can't pass a shit test to save his life, has no concept of push-pull, dread, frame or any basic LTR management skills. She divorces him after 2 years. No kids but she still tried to get alimony despite making almost twice what he does. In retrospect he now admits he married a younger hotter version of his mother.
tl;dr Game is a perspective, a lens through which we view the world and our place in it. Its more than simply increasing one's partner count. Its also about protecting yourself from a culture that doesn't hold women responsible for their actions, about always putting yourself first and carving out the best quality life you can during your one shot on this Earth. I hope the OP has a chance to check in with this guy in 10 years.
Having a Crisis of Faith - The_e_man - 07-14-2016
OP here, checking in almost one year later from when I originally made this post.
Man, have I come a long way. I have read the book "The Power of Now" and have gotten more into mindfulness and meditation.
I found that before I had an insatiable ego so large that it commanded my life like a puppet master pulling on strings. Every action I did was to stroke my ego and tell it what it wants to hear. The problem with this is the ego is never "full." It is always hungry and wants to be told the same thing over and over again, and louder and louder every time.
This is not to say I have fully abandoned my ego. I still count my notches as I find it incredibly difficult not to (I'm now at 89, for those wondering). Also, I've made it a (very) lighthearted goal of mine to hit 100 before the summer ends. Now, this goal of 100 notches will not define me as a man. A lot of my friends ask "and then what?" when I tell them I plan to hit 100. My answer is that nothing really will change. It's not like from the moment my dick goes inside the 100th girl that I will be granted superpowers. But, every single one of those 89 girls so far have given me some reference experience, some confidence, and yes even some ego validation telling me that I am in fact a "ladies man."
I know that is it not healthy to base my life and self-worth around the ego validation of fucking beautiful women and being "good" with women. But I think a healthy moderation is all that is needed. I see stroking my ego the same as eating a chocolate bar. A "guilty pleasure" of sorts that is completely healthy in moderation.
As for my handsome friend that has pussy handed to him on a silver platter, things haven't changed. I've met a few more friends just like him actually. Still the same song and dance. But one thing I've learned that a game-aware person posses that they don't is FRAME. Very important for LTR management, which these guys tend to be horrible at and go full beta once in a relationship. But when it comes to SNL, these guys will beat me almost everytime since the girl has very little to go off of other than first impressions.
And finally, since I'm close to 100 notches at age 22 (I don't turn 23 until September) I think that I can say one thing so far based on my experience of THOUSANDS of hours in-field in nightgame / daygame settings. This is going to piss a lot of guys on this forum off. Many will disagree with this, and I wish that I was wrong but experience time after time proves me right. And what I have to say is this: LOOKS MAKES EVERYTHING 10000000 TIMES EASIER. I did not say ugly guys can't pull, I didn't say looks are all that matters, I didn't say game is a scam, all I'm saying is looks makes things SO MUCH EASIER.
Having a Crisis of Faith - Mikan - 07-14-2016
Quote: (07-14-2016 04:24 PM)The_e_man Wrote:
looks makes things SO MUCH EASIER.
This is why the first piece of game advice is almost always start working out and lifting weights. Not really a lot you can do about the bone structure of the face or your height, but everyone can lose fat, gain muscle and dress to accentuate.
Having a Crisis of Faith - Phazlenut - 07-17-2016
Quote: (08-13-2015 02:16 PM)The_e_man Wrote:
I suppose the reason I'm posting this thread is because I want positive reinforcement from you guys saying "don't worry, game is still more important - looks don't matter that much."
Loathsome as the GMAT is, the critical thinking sections of that test are the correct framework to use to analyse this dispassionately.
Quote:Quote:
![[Image: 500px-Necessary_and_sufficient_venn_(set...am.svg.png]](https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jQFnWUTJNEk/UvpimRzTpLI/AAAAAAAAB_c/sBs2MNCT7cs/s1600/500px-Necessary_and_sufficient_venn_(set)_diagram.svg.png)
Necessity is a requirement for a condition to hold true.
Sufficiency is an adequate proof that a condition is true.
e.g. Assuming you're taking Playerism 101 at Roosh U and the grading is based on these components:
80% approach volume
10% inner game
5% outer game
3% logistics
1% field report quality
1% likes on the nudes of your bangs
It will be sufficient but not necessary to get 100% in all components to get an A.
It will be necessary to get an A in the "approach volume" component to get an overall A.
So, thinking about game vs looks in your OP.
Looks are sufficient to get favourable attention from women.
Game is necessary to get consistent bangs
As to the sub-point of looks vs game I underlined in your quote, my advice is not to think that way.
I view looks as an important part of my game, and like all the other parts it should be continuously optimised to aid the overall game.
Having a Crisis of Faith - The_e_man - 07-18-2016
Beautiful logical breakdown, nowhere else would I find this other than on this forum.
I have written the LSAT exam and the logical reasoning component deals with necessary and sufficient conditions as well.
The messed up part for me is I constantly see conflicting anecdotal experience in the real world.
For example, the time after time scenario of the good looking guys having women throw themselves at them despite 0 / shitty game.
But at the same time, I also see ugly guys pulling very beautiful women, usually in social circle type settings.
I can't seem to reconcile this.
Having a Crisis of Faith - Dalaran1991 - 07-18-2016
Quote: (07-18-2016 03:37 AM)The_e_man Wrote:
Beautiful logical breakdown, nowhere else would I find this other than on this forum.
I have written the LSAT exam and the logical reasoning component deals with necessary and sufficient conditions as well.
The messed up part for me is I constantly see conflicting anecdotal experience in the real world.
For example, the time after time scenario of the good looking guys having women throw themselves at them despite 0 / shitty game.
But at the same time, I also see ugly guys pulling very beautiful women, usually in social circle type settings.
I can't seem to reconcile this.
This thread is filled with excellent advice.
OP, if you have to use anecdotal evidence, then better to use YOUR anecdotal evidence. People here have hammered this to you but you dont seem to understand because you are still so lost in your obsession:
You are 22 with 50+ notches. Most guys at similar attractiveness levels to you could not have that in a wet dream. They would be the one screaming "its unfair, this guy got nothing but has 50+ notches"
What's next, are you gonna obsess over how an 8 girl would never have to work in her life and still live a more luxurious life than you + gets in all the private clubs that you have to bust balls and wallet to get into?
I know it's hard. Game obsession + jealousy + a sense of having been wronged by the world. I was there just a year ago. I literally burned with rage that guys with no game would have it easier than me just because they are white.
Was I gonna pump myself with chemical Micheal Jackson style? No. Was I mad about it? Hell yeah, but it went away, fast. When you realize that you only need to do better than your old self and not some pretty boys who probably dont know rejection is.
Do not obsess about how other people have it easy. Women and pretty boys have it easy, and, unlike some peole have said, receive no consequences for their bad choices or lack of talents. Your friend, by the time he reach 35, will have gotten laid more than you do a life time, (if he's smart) marry a chick who is 10x richer than him but obsessed with him, and can continue to game well into his 50 if he takes care of himself (physically). Accept it and dont give a shit.
Try out screening for quality and looking for a girl who really loves you. As Scorpion said, you are past gaming for girls.
Happy hunting