Venezuela is collapsing - Printable Version

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Venezuela is collapsing - Pride male - 03-28-2019

∆From watching documentaries you get the impression that American corporations on South America is a bad thing. Damned if you do damned if you don't.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Going strong - 03-28-2019

Quote: (03-14-2019 07:59 AM)Going strong Wrote:  

By the way, one might want to read the article 187 (numeral 11: 11. Autorizar el empleo de misiones militares venezolanas en el exterior o extranjeras en el país) of the Venezuelan constitution...
http://constituciondevenezuela.com/articulo-187/

Quick translation: "it corresponds to the national assembly (...) to authorize the use of Venezuelan military missions abroad or the use or foreign military missions in the country"

^Funnily (or not) enough, it's actually Russia that has used (or circumvented?) this Venezuelan-Constitution article, to justify the arrival by plane of 100 of its troops to Caracas, couple of days ago.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eur...story.html
"Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said in a statement late Tuesday that the presence of Russian military personnel in Venezuela is “in strict accordance” with the Venezuelan constitution and a bilateral agreement on military cooperation. She said that it doesn’t require any approval by Venezuela’s opposition-controlled National Assembly"

Seems that the Venezuelan Constitution "forgot" to state that this 187-11 article was exclusive of any other bilateral agreement? But wasn't it implied anyway, by the term "corresponde"?


^Maria Zakharova , WB, Would Tentatively Interpret Venezuelan Constitution with
https://www.rbth.com/arts/2017/07/03/sla...rts_794555

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Venezuela is collapsing - 911 - 03-28-2019



nice pegs, solid rack, WB.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Bienvenuto - 03-30-2019

Quote: (03-28-2019 06:41 AM)Going strong Wrote:  

Quote: (03-14-2019 07:59 AM)Going strong Wrote:  

By the way, one might want to read the article 187 (numeral 11: 11. Autorizar el empleo de misiones militares venezolanas en el exterior o extranjeras en el país) of the Venezuelan constitution...
http://constituciondevenezuela.com/articulo-187/

Quick translation: "it corresponds to the national assembly (...) to authorize the use of Venezuelan military missions abroad or the use or foreign military missions in the country"

^Funnily (or not) enough, it's actually Russia that has used (or circumvented?) this Venezuelan-Constitution article, to justify the arrival by plane of 100 of its troops to Caracas, couple of days ago.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eur...story.html
"Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said in a statement late Tuesday that the presence of Russian military personnel in Venezuela is “in strict accordance” with the Venezuelan constitution and a bilateral agreement on military cooperation. She said that it doesn’t require any approval by Venezuela’s opposition-controlled National Assembly"

Seems that the Venezuelan Constitution "forgot" to state that this 187-11 article was exclusive of any other bilateral agreement? But wasn't it implied anyway, by the term "corresponde"?


^Maria Zakharova , WB, Would Tentatively Interpret Venezuelan Constitution with
https://www.rbth.com/arts/2017/07/03/sla...rts_794555

Am I the only one that is mystified by the Russian moves here?

I thought Putin played a blinder on Syria, holding out on going charging in to his allies aid with full weaponry when he had every right to..

yes, I know.. advisors, materiel, intelligence, special forces and technicians but no carpet bombing, attack helicopters, no Stalins organs in full deployment.

To the point where Qatar, Saudi, the US, Britain, Turkey didn't even expect them to deploy. Then bang, they bombed the shit out of Isis.

And what was even better.. Then they got out. Twice...

they went down there and as soon as they weren't needed they pulled back and sailed their aircraft carrier home. (Albeit, money was an issue probably).

But this.. I suspect in some ways its just a demonstration of tokenism because they could well benefit from having skin in the game without having to do too much.

But balancing that is the fact that this is not in their hemisphere, certainly not in their sphere of influence.

If I was an American govt appointee I would be pissed. I see it as a naked aggression toward the US.

Yes the US and Nato are constantly interfering where they aren't asked to all over the world. But that's like the question - "why does a dog lick its balls?.. Because it can."

This is an American sphere of influence.

Im not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing: it just is. Russia is sticking its beak in in a place where they aren't welcome.

International solidarity and states like Venezuela's rights to choose their allies be damned.

Russia cannot sustain overseas campaigns against proxy-enemies like the US in far flung parts of the world. Venezuela might be an aggrieved party in all of this but that doesn't mean Jack.

If Vietnam started trying to cultivate Myanmar or North Korea - China would not put up with that for a second.

Similarly Russia, in my view, are sticking their necks out here.

EDIT: WNB Russian Chick above.

WABJWWWNOTV - Would accept BlowJob Whilst Watching World news on TV.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Polniy_Sostav - 03-30-2019

I watch with delight Russia interfering in America s zone of influence .
What happened in Ukraine and in Georgia in particular gives the moral right for Putin to do this .
In my opinion Russia should take Alaska back

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Venezuela is collapsing - infowarrior1 - 03-30-2019

Quote: (03-27-2019 03:08 AM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

Quote: (03-26-2019 07:08 PM)Curunír Wrote:  

Russia is not even a state, it’s more or less a dysfonctionnal society that’s talent and history has been robbed by people who don’t care about its people and only further their own interests and this has been going on for 102 years now.

They contribute nothing to the world. Which is a shame because it’s peole have so much potential and good genes.

True for the most part, but you gotta remember Russia was basically raped and left for dead twice in one century. And I'm not even counting WW2 which left over 25 million dead. What do you expect? It's gonna take time and lots of effort to rebuild, but there's no question that the country is on the right track. On my last visit to Moscow, I was stunned by the level of development, cleanliness of the streets, and things like that. Outer regions - less so.

Also, I'm not sure about Russia contrubuting "nothing". They've churned out tons of physicists, engineers, mathematicians, literary icons, artists, and so on.

Plus the AK.

Baby steps..

Russia had to contend with the mongols too:





Mongols entrenched serfdom and which would ultimately end in Europe but not in Russia until more modern times.

And the genocide of the majority of the population didn't help either.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Going strong - 03-31-2019

Quote: (03-30-2019 01:06 PM)Polniy_Sostav Wrote:  

I watch with delight Russia interfering in America s zone of influence .
What happened in Ukraine and in Georgia in particular gives the moral right for Putin to do this .
In my opinion Russia should take Alaska back

What happened in the Ukraine and Georgia, is that V. Putin reined in the Russian tanks when they could have reached and taken Tbilissi in half an hour and Kiev in three hours. And Vladimir Vladimirovich very probably acted wisely, as both Georgia and Ukraine would have been a heavy burden on the Russian Federation. So Putin, a very careful and cautious leader as usual, acted with a lot of calm and restrain, and just took a little bit of these territories (when he could have taken the whole territory of Georgia or Ukraine, easy).

So it is a bit surprising to see RF President Putin sending troops and material now to Caracas: bold move indeed. Especially as President Trump is now cleared from the Mueller witch-hunt, and therefore, back in full might.

My guess is that Putin has to give some symbolic bone to the oligarchs who invested in Venezuela. But hopefully Putin will not cross too many red lines in Caracas, as Venezuela is a fight that the Russians cannot win in the medium or long-term, if the USA decides to act.

Granted, it appears less and less certain by the week that the USA will really intervene (and thus quickly and easily crush Maduro, as their military might would guarantee). I mean, when the chief of staff of Guaido received a beating by Maduro supporters and was unceremoniously dragged to jail, it was apparently a first sign that maybe, the USA is considering not intervening, for the time being.

But I would still put the probabilities of President Trump terminating Maduro by the end of Spring, at say 70%. We'll see.

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Venezuela is collapsing - 911 - 03-31-2019

With about a quarter of the country being hardcore Chavistas, making up most of the army, and the majority of poorer minorities with less to lose in a fight, what makes you think that a military operation would be successful at holding power?

I seriously doubt Trump will do any large-scale military invasion before the elections, this would be political suicide. You can't reuse the Saddam-WMD playbook there. And even after November, it would take a large number of boots on the ground to secure and hold the country, and to fight the ensuing urban and rural guerilla warfare, can't see that happening.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Going strong - 03-31-2019

Quote: (03-31-2019 09:31 PM)911 Wrote:  

With about a quarter of the country being hardcore Chavistas, making up most of the army, and the majority of poorer minorities with less to lose in a fight, what makes you think that a military operation would be successful at holding power?

I seriously doubt Trump will do any large-scale military invasion before the elections, this would be political suicide. You can't reuse the Saddam-WMD playbook there. And even after November, it would take a large number of boots on the ground to secure and hold the country, and to fight the ensuing urban and rural guerilla warfare, can't see that happening.

Well, I think that Venezuelan soldiers would absolutely not fight with bravery or dedication, should the US send elite troops. Venezuelan soldiers would quite certainly flee, desert, use their weapons to steal from stores or kill their officers, or just lay low. Remember Saddam's Irakian "soldiers", the cowards?

But you are probably right anyway, President Trump should probably not put many boots on the ground. A guided missile or two (or twenty if Maduro is not directly targeted and instead it's the military bases of its "supporters" that get destroyed) should and I guess will eventually suffice.

And remember that CNN would not even protest that much if Maduro receives a missile through the window while sleeping. I mean, the demonization of Maduro has been efficient throughout the political field in the West, ha has almost no MSM supporter left (but that might change if he survives a few weeks more, as Venezuelan money is being moved to MSM bank accounts these days).

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Venezuela is collapsing - Handsome Creepy Eel - 04-01-2019

Quote: (03-30-2019 10:47 PM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  

Russia had to contend with the mongols too:

Mongols entrenched serfdom and which would ultimately end in Europe but not in Russia until more modern times.

And the genocide of the majority of the population didn't help either.

Look, at some point there has a to be a limit how far into the past you can lay blame for current circumstances. Communism I can understand, that was very recent, but Mongols - that happened almost 1000 years ago. If you can't recover from a disaster in 1000 years, what does it say about you? It's like Arabs claiming they would have ruled the world if those bad bad Mongols hadn't sacked Baghdad in 1258, or Mexicans claiming that they had an awesome thing going on until the arrival of Conquistadors. What would we tell to an Italian claiming that Italy would have become an awesome world power if it weren't for that pesky fall of Western Roman Empire?

This sort of complaining just makes a nation look sad and embarrassing.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Mekorig - 04-01-2019

911, do you really know about Venezuela? 1/4 chavistas? Right now is 1/6 at best, mostly the colectivos and the small time gangs working for the regime, plus the tipical diehard lefties that pox the region. Of the army, with any luck 1/4 would fight for the regime in case of invasion. Stop drinking the rt/telesur koolaid, and talk with the venezuelans outside and inside the country.

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Venezuela is collapsing - 911 - 04-01-2019

Maduro did get 31.7% of total registered voters, that's about half the electorate in an election with 65% participation rate, so I figured his hardcore base is about half those voters, or about a quarter of the population. As well if there is outside/yanqui intervention, it's going to stoke a nationalistic response.

I do have woke Venezuelan friends over here, and yeah the ratio is about 5 to 1 anti-Chavez, I know it's not a black and white situation Mek. My closest buddy is a hardcore anti-Chavista, looks like a full-bloodied Castillian visigoth.

He told me a funny story, he run his large family farm near Maracaibo, one day he was doing a lot of field work and looking very scruffy. He had to meet a client far away and was running late, didn't have time to tell his driver where his client was, so he grabs his gun and takes the wheel, with his driver by his side and his bodyguard in the backseat (usually he sits in the back). His bodyguard was a cleancut fussy muchacho. So they get stopped by a pack of heavily armed roadside thugs at a traffic light, they scan the car and kidnap his bodyguard right away .

Turns out the kidnappers were connected with local police, he gathered that much from going to the nearby station where he overheard the local cop let it slip that they knew of a kidnapping in progress today of a bigshot farm owner before that info could get to them, then they realized that the kidnap target was sitting in their office... That was the time he knew he had to get out of town. He ued to run a large farm with a few hundred cattle heads and was always trying to fend off hungry bandito rustlers. The farm is now closed. That lack of stability is one of the reasons the country hasn't had the necessary agricultural output in recent years.

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Venezuela is collapsing - SamuelBRoberts - 04-01-2019

Hahaha, holy shit.

Don't worry, though. We just need to launch 20 "guided missiles" into the country and all those problems will go away!

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Venezuela is collapsing - Going strong - 04-01-2019

Quote: (04-01-2019 04:14 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Hahaha, holy shit.

Don't worry, though. We just need to launch 20 "guided missiles" into the country and all those problems will go away!

They would, though, wouldn't they? Didn't it work just fine in a not-so-distant past? Didn't it work just fine in Syria for example, where ISIS has just been bombed (bombs, missiles, whatever works) to oblivion?

People who say "Oh but killing Maduro wouldn't help", well, I would like them to explain to us how exactly it would NOT solve the problem. I mean, if a dude X fucks with half of the world, and a missile turns X into steaming water, then the problem is solved, right? Mathematically the problem is absolutely solved, as X has left the equation.

Also, what are missiles (and yes, they are by definition guided one way or another) made for, if not for turning your enemies to air and water? Are missiles made strictly to increase the profit of the weapons industry? Surely, they have to be used sometimes, haven't they?

Anyway, I have just seen a funny live video of Diego Maradona dedicating a minor-league win to Maduro: Diego was so high and full of coke , he collapsed on a chair, helped by an assistant, then stumbled and mumbled incoherent compliments to Maduro and against interventionism... Makes me think, Maradona (horny dude, and father of ten illegitimate kids) might be an active poster on this very thread?

PS: J. Guaido has just been stripped of his parliamentary immunity. If Maduro detains him, all poker cards will have to be laid on the table...

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Venezuela is collapsing - 911 - 04-01-2019

My impression of Maduro is that he's just the guy currently on top of their pyramid, as opposed to the ideological, generational leader that Chavez was, so if the US "surgically" took him out, that would turn him into a martyr, it would galvanize the Chavestistas, and the next guy down the ladder would replace him? It's not like they will run out of bus drivers there.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Going strong - 04-01-2019

Quote: (04-01-2019 06:34 PM)911 Wrote:  

My impression of Maduro is that he's just the guy currently on top of their pyramid, as opposed to the ideological, generational leader that Chavez was, so if the US "surgically" took him out, that would turn him into a martyr, it would galvanize the Chavistas, and the next guy down the ladder would replace him? It's not like they will run out of bus drivers there.

Except it's South America. So, the next guy down the ladder would hurriedly pack a bag of cash and gold, and flee to Dominicana, or Uruguay or Barbados or South Africa or Sweden.

Mind you, no Chavista will be allowed to flee to the sunny island facing Florida. Allende tried that, he was promptly shot by his minders. The sunny island doesn't give refuge to cowards or bad assets, well... unless they are female and have elephantiasis.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Leonard D Neubache - 04-01-2019

Regardless of what the claimed intentions are, intervention will do nothing but bleed America at home and on the world stage.

Even the low-info set don't assume good-will anymore and anyone paying attention just sees Israel's golem stomping around as usual.

Try to imagine what kind of credibility loss Uncle Sam has to have suffered for people who don't like muslims to hope that America loses in Syria and for people who don't like communists to hope that America loses in Venezuela.

What's even more ridiculous about US intervention there is that the very (((people))) pushing it will also use it on the other side of the fence to whip up anti-gringo (aka anti-white) sentiment.

White folk have got to stop being played for such chumps.

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Venezuela is collapsing - SamuelBRoberts - 04-01-2019

Quote: (04-01-2019 06:15 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

They would, though, wouldn't they? Didn't it work just fine in a not-so-distant past? Didn't it work just fine in Syria for example, where ISIS has just been bombed (bombs, missiles, whatever works) to oblivion?

No, that's not what happened in Syria at all.
Like, that's not even close to what happened in Syria.
Honestly if you think that Syria was an example of an enemy being pummeled into submission by air strikes, and not, say, protracted infantry combat, then you should really stop talking about foreign politics at all until you've gotten more up to date.

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Venezuela is collapsing - TigerMandingo - 04-01-2019

Has ISIS actually been defeated? I remember the early celebrations of how we beat the Taliban and they seem to be back in Afghanistan.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Going strong - 04-01-2019

Quote: (04-01-2019 07:30 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Quote: (04-01-2019 06:15 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

They would, though, wouldn't they? Didn't it work just fine in a not-so-distant past? Didn't it work just fine in Syria for example, where ISIS has just been bombed (bombs, missiles, whatever works) to oblivion?

No, that's not what happened in Syria at all.
Like, that's not even close to what happened in Syria.
Honestly if you think that Syria was an example of an enemy being pummeled into submission by air strikes, and not, say, protracted infantry combat, then you should really stop talking about foreign politics at all until you've gotten more up to date.

I am pretty sure that ISIS has been defeated by a combination of both, air strikes, and protracted infantry combat. Though I am no specialist of the Syrian subject, I have read and heard that without airstrikes, ISIS would not have been defeated.

In any case, if you want to compare ISIS fanatical fighters and South American "fighters" (lol, Bolivar is long dead and so is San Martin), well no offense but, "you should really stop talking about (South American) politics until you've gotten more up to date".

Once again: there is no such thing as Latin American "soldiers" who would fight to death with fanaticism and efficiency. No offense here to our Latino friends, they do have many qualities, but being organized and ferocious soldiers is not their forte!

All of this reminds me of all the talks about Iraki soldiers "determined to fight to death", Irak being "the 5th army of the world" . Then a bunch of valiant French soldiers (from Daguet division) enter Irak and half a million of Iraki soldiers flee before them, so fast that the brave US soldiers hardly had time to intervene. It'd be same-same here, in all likelihood.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Leonard D Neubache - 04-01-2019

ISIS has been defeated by the CIA no longer funding them and America no longer protecting their air space.

Nobody found it odd that it was announced quietly and the Whitehouse wasn't doing victory laps for a month?

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Venezuela is collapsing - Luvianka - 04-01-2019

This is a war crime against Venezuelan people excuted by the USA.
The electric grid has been attacked by electromagnetic pulses weapons. Russian technicians and military personnel have inspected Venezuelan facilities and have confirmed the attack.
Shame on you, America, shame on you!

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Venezuela is collapsing - SamuelBRoberts - 04-01-2019

Quote: (04-01-2019 08:17 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

I am pretty sure that ISIS has been defeated by a combination of both, air strikes, and protracted infantry combat. Though I am no specialist of the Syrian subject, I have read and heard that without airstrikes, ISIS would not have been defeated.

So um, who's gonna be doing the protracted infantry combat in Venezuela?

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Venezuela is collapsing - infowarrior1 - 04-02-2019

Quote: (04-01-2019 07:30 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Quote: (04-01-2019 06:15 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

They would, though, wouldn't they? Didn't it work just fine in a not-so-distant past? Didn't it work just fine in Syria for example, where ISIS has just been bombed (bombs, missiles, whatever works) to oblivion?

No, that's not what happened in Syria at all.
Like, that's not even close to what happened in Syria.
Honestly if you think that Syria was an example of an enemy being pummeled into submission by air strikes, and not, say, protracted infantry combat, then you should really stop talking about foreign politics at all until you've gotten more up to date.

The Russians fatally weakened ISIS. Through destruction of the supply lines to Turkey like bombing the oil tankers going into Turkey destroying ISIS oil fields that existed in ISIS territory as well as destroying its Logistics, Money and other fundamental aspects that ensured ISIS functionality.

America seemed to avoid those crucial targets.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Easy_C - 04-02-2019

See if you can spot the part the coincides with why Venezuala suddenly needs to be overthrown.

https://youtu.be/ohrkhZnG4Ww

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