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Venezuela is collapsing - Swordfish1010 - 03-06-2019

Quote: (03-02-2019 01:27 PM)CaptainChardonnay Wrote:  




I can't listen to a guy with that hair, a goatee, and an unbuttoned shirt.

Venezuela is collapsing - 911 - 03-06-2019

He probably meant "Soldiers Begin Defecating", being into weird shit himself.

Venezuela is collapsing - SamuelBRoberts - 03-06-2019

Quote: (03-06-2019 10:19 PM)911 Wrote:  

He probably meant "Soldiers Begin Defecating", being into weird shit himself.

It's a bad joke, but it's making fun of Hexenhammer, so I like it.

Venezuela is collapsing - beta_plus - 03-07-2019

Quote: (03-06-2019 12:32 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Quote: (03-06-2019 07:57 AM)beta_plus Wrote:  

If it wasn't for Venezuela being one of the few effective staging areas for an invasion of the USA, I would be all for leaving them alone completely.

USA is more likely to be invaded from Andromeda than from Venezuela.


Quote: (03-06-2019 09:10 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Quote: (03-06-2019 07:57 AM)beta_plus Wrote:  

If it wasn't for Venezuela being one of the few effective staging areas for an invasion of the USA, I would be all for leaving them alone completely.

Where did you hear this and why do you think it's not goofy propaganda from the same place that brought you "Weapons of Mass Destruction"?


1. This Guy made me hear this and his goofy propaganda:

[Image: B1ZEdmsGPnS._UX250_.jpg]











Sadly, I cannot find a video describing his observations that:
a. New Orleans is the one realistic place for a conventional military invasion of the USA. This can only be done by countries that border the Gulf of Mexico and the Caribbean. Venezuela borders the Caribbean.
b. When the UK desperately needed USA aid in WW II before Pearl Harbor, the USA gave the UK a bunch of destroyers and other aid. However, the UK had to give up all of its Western Hemisphere ports that they could use to invade the USA. The USA has a long history of keeping an eye on this stuff.

2. The Battle of New Orleans at the end of the War of 1812. Britain did not just randomly attack the mouth of the greatest collection of navigable inland waterways. Once America claimed New Orleans decisively, in addition to having St. Louis and Kansas City, it controlled the continent. As an American citizen, I wish for America to continue to do that.

3. Monroe Doctrine as mentioned above.

4. You guys might want to look at a topographical map of North America. New Orleans pops up as an obvious invasion spot.

Preventing a conventional military invasion or attack, no matter how unlikely, is within the legitimate interest of the American people.

Before you call me a globalist shill, I am for: However, even in that ideal world, the USA still needs to worry about: When Maduro let Putin land nuclear capable bombers a few months ago, he crossed a very stupid line. A line that I wish that he would not have crossed so the USA could just tell Venezuela and its people "Fuck off, we don't need your oil anymore", but he did. He and Putin knew what they were doing. Damn it. And yes I'm aware it was probably Putin's retaliation for Syria and the Ukraine. Please look above.

As for containment, I should have been more clear that it should not be by American soldiers. At least from the forum and other places I looked, the citizens of Venezuela's neighbors would happily have its socialist/communist rapefugees kept in Venezuela by force. America could just send money, supplies, logistical aid, and intelligence to Venezuela's neighbors. I guess on the seas the USA would have to do that, though.

Venezuela is collapsing - SamuelBRoberts - 03-07-2019

So your feeling is that we need to invade Venezuela because otherwise Russia will use it as a staging area to launch an invasion of the US mainland?

Venezuela is collapsing - beta_plus - 03-07-2019

Quote: (03-07-2019 12:10 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

So your feeling is that we need to invade Venezuela because otherwise Russia will use it as a staging area to launch an invasion of the US mainland?

Thanks for intentionally misreading what I wrote now on more than one occasion. I am proposing CONTAINMENT. Not Invasion.

We need to keep a real politik/global political approach to Venezuela to prevent it from being used as a beach head against the USA. You might want to read up on the Cuban Missile Crisis.

We can keep the local actors working for us. Colombia, especially Colombian women, will happily support us if we approach this correctly.

Colombia:
[Image: sexy-latina-24232355.jpg]

Venezuela:
[Image: venezuela_woman_gaby_espino.jpg]

Venezuela is collapsing - Leonard D Neubache - 03-07-2019

The motive for intervention hardly matters at this point.

I think there are a lot of people so desperate to believe in the prevailing strength of Western hegemony that they will push an invasion of someone, anyone, just to get that addict's hit of power and relevance.

I would have more respect for people that just admitted this shit openly rather than creating self-delusional fantasies about how they'll be welcomed with open arms as liberators. A fraction of the Western world even has the balls to concede that nations are not a product of their ideologies but of their people, at which point it becomes mind-numbingly obvious that you are in fact invading to save people not from socialism but from themselves.

So if you're going to colonize the savage apes and bring them civilisation in return for the valuable shit on their land or even the land itself as a potential "staging ground" then just bloody say it. An ugly truth is far more respectable than all these dirty and pathetic lies people are trying to peddle.

Venezuela is collapsing - beta_plus - 03-07-2019

Quote: (03-07-2019 12:39 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

The motive for intervention hardly matters at this point.

I think there are a lot of people so desperate to believe in the prevailing strength of Western hegemony that they will push an invasion of someone, anyone, just to get that addict's hit of power and relevance.

I would have more respect for people that just admitted this shit openly rather than creating self-delusional fantasies about how they'll be welcomed with open arms as liberators. A fraction of the Western world even has the balls to concede that nations are not a product of their ideologies but of their people, at which point it becomes mind-numbingly obvious that you are in fact invading to save people not from socialism but from themselves.

So if you're going to colonize the savage apes and bring them civilisation in return for the valuable shit on their land or even the land itself as a potential "staging ground" then just bloody say it. An ugly truth is far more respectable than all these dirty and pathetic lies people are trying to peddle.

Well ...

yeah ...

... I thought that's what I just said.

My only caveat is that I'm going to use whatever nasty means necessary to make the impact on my own people minimal. If hot Colombian chicks don't want to compete with hot Venezuelan rapefugee chicks, I am going to use that to my people's advantage.

Mr. Zeihan has to package things nicely in order to make a living.

Venezuela is collapsing - Leonard D Neubache - 03-07-2019

I wasn't referring specifically to your post. I typed it before you posted your message and it only showed up on my feed after I hit post.

Venezuela is collapsing - SamuelBRoberts - 03-07-2019

What does "containment" mean in this context? Venezeula isn't an expansionistic power. They're not going to invade Columbia. They have no designs on their neighbors. They can barely keep their lights on. What are we supplying "logistical support" to neighboring countries FOR? Those neighboring countries have already ruled out military invasion.

Also, this is the third time in something like 12 hours that some generic conservabro on RVF has told me to "read up on (famous event from American history that everybody knows about)" Is this the latest basic bitch conservative talking point?

Venezuela is collapsing - Swordfish1010 - 03-07-2019

Quote: (03-07-2019 12:39 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

The motive for intervention hardly matters at this point.

I think there are a lot of people so desperate to believe in the prevailing strength of Western hegemony that they will push an invasion of someone, anyone, just to get that addict's hit of power and relevance.

I would have more respect for people that just admitted this shit openly rather than creating self-delusional fantasies about how they'll be welcomed with open arms as liberators. A fraction of the Western world even has the balls to concede that nations are not a product of their ideologies but of their people, at which point it becomes mind-numbingly obvious that you are in fact invading to save people not from socialism but from themselves.

So if you're going to colonize the savage apes and bring them civilisation in return for the valuable shit on their land or even the land itself as a potential "staging ground" then just bloody say it. An ugly truth is far more respectable than all these dirty and pathetic lies people are trying to peddle.

I still haven't gotten over the invasion of Iraq. US Military Complex ugh.

Venezuela is collapsing - Leonard D Neubache - 03-07-2019

WMDs, brah!

We're bringing them democracy, brah!

Staging ground for Russia, brah!

We're bringing them capitalism, brah!

It's fucking ridiculous, isn't it? I excuse people in their early 20's. For most of us it takes a while to establish the patterns. For everyone from 25 up there's no damned excuse at all.

Venezuela is collapsing - Foolsgo1d - 03-07-2019

The motivation is the US dollar was being replaced by them when it comes to trading oil,

https://www.wsj.com/articles/venezuela-s...1505343161

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ellenrwald/...995e9f3094

Preeeety sure anyone vouching for local actors to launch attacks agaisnt the legitimate government of Venezuela didnt know this.

Venezuela is collapsing - TigerMandingo - 03-07-2019

Quote: (03-07-2019 01:10 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Also, this is the third time in something like 12 hours that some generic conservabro on RVF has told me to "read up on (famous event from American history that everybody knows about)" Is this the latest basic bitch conservative talking point?

Sam, a few pages back I think you mentioned something about Trump supporters/conservatives being dumb, and as much as I didn't want to admit it, I think I'm coming around to the same conclusion. Roosh wrote about conservatives acting like losers before, but I think we're gonna have to add that they're also borderline stupid. There is some sort of rigidity in their arguments that doesn't allow room for nuance. Any slightly left-of-center argument is automatically met with "muh free markets", "get out of here commmie" or "you're a loser blackpiller".

Just so we're clear, I am not insulting anyone on this forum, because I know a lot of guys on here are hard-working, successful, and intelligent. I am speaking in general terms. Even guys I strongly disagree with on here, I always think to myself "it's all good, I can tell the guy does his research and I've learned something".

Venezuela is collapsing - DarkTriad - 03-07-2019

Quote: (03-02-2019 05:49 PM)911 Wrote:  

Captn, the Libya vid is by a normie open borders globalist, he presents the Libyan invasion as some kind of well-meaning humanitarian mission that somehow went wrong, as if Iraq never happened, when in fact it was just a mission to destroy the country, destabilize the region (fueling the African immigration onslaught into Europe), and to steal its gold and assets, preventing Gaddafi from establishing an alternative gold-backed organic regional currency. The ensuing chaos after the invasion was by design.

Here's the same normie fruitcake sucking Trudeau's pole:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHQ2lrAjKQk
(no need to click, it's just this fruitcake fawning over Justine T.)

I believe everything but the chaos was planned. IIRC, the Hillary emails had her trying to set up some kind of puppet gov't but she was just too incompetent to make it work.

Venezuela is collapsing - BBinger - 03-08-2019

Well, the Guri dam with 10,000+ MW of generation capacity has been sabotaged. Maduro is blaming the Imperialists while Madame Secretary Pompeo is being incredibly glib with lines like "Maduro’s policies bring nothing but darkness." I have to say the PR campaign in this here intervention isn't looking very humanitarian.

Venezuela is collapsing - SamuelBRoberts - 03-08-2019

Are we sure it's sabotage and not just the damn thing falling apart for lack of proper maintenance?

Venezuela is collapsing - BBinger - 03-08-2019

Quote: (03-08-2019 06:15 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Are we sure it's sabotage and not just the damn thing falling apart for lack of proper maintenance?

Well the complex supplies ~1/3rd of their electricity and exports some to Colombia and Brazil. It's the sort of thing that gets maintained.

On the other hand... fucking with power generation and distribution is part of the regime change playbook the US almost always starts on well before bombs drop. Stuxnet was a thing. The US fucks with control systems for other countries major infrastructure for political points. There's a track record. That the US has the ability to do it is probable. Believing they would doesn't require a huge leap of faith.

I can't help but thing about how going into Iraq and Afghanistan just about everything was televised. Then with Syria the presence of boots on the ground was denied and then at some point the line shifted with no fanfare at all to "Of course we have boots on the ground in Syria".

I'm inclined to believe the stupid bus driver in this case.

Venezuela is collapsing - 911 - 03-08-2019

For sure, it's straight out of the Elliott Abrams 1980s Contra sabotage playbook, it's almost got his signature on it.

[Image: manualusedp2_80f671413e.jpg]

[Image: manualusedp1_ca2e6b28ed.jpg]

Some of those measures will come naturally to the locals [Image: lol.gif]. IIIRC the CIA also pushed those kinds of sabotage measures against France, circulating those kinds of pamphlets among labor unions funded by the CIA, during the color revolution of May 1968 where they fomented a cultural marxist revolution against the nationalist righteous government of Charles de Gaulle, our greatest president and greatest postwar European leader, biggest thorn on the side of the globalists. France was the third world power under him.

But there are some higher-level operations targeting the infrastructure, and a key powerplant has got to be the prime target:

https://medium.com/the-semaphore/this-19...346baa1d9f

https://apnews.com/9648478ff49cacaa718363efb8f419ee

The question is, is this going to turn their people against Maduro, or will they rally for him? I'm leaning towards the latter.

Venezuela is collapsing - Foolsgo1d - 03-08-2019

The US is using their less used subversion techniques. They know a lot of people dont like Maduro and their intel points to a potential military coup.

The people just need to be prodded in the direction you want it to go and voila, come out at the end of the tunnel with no need for military assets and Your Guy in the top seat. Once all is settled they start trading oil in dollars again and Russia and China dont get cheap oil.

Venezuela is collapsing - natas305 - 03-10-2019

Quote: (03-08-2019 06:15 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Are we sure it's sabotage and not just the damn thing falling apart for lack of proper maintenance?

This. Everything in Venezuela is SO poorly maintained that this isn't far fetched.

Venezuela is collapsing - Latinopan - 03-10-2019

Quote: (03-01-2019 11:34 AM)BBinger Wrote:  

Quote: (02-27-2019 11:57 AM)911 Wrote:  

Maduro is nowhere near a proper dictator, Assad or Gaddafi, who fit that bill (although both are clearly better for their country than the globalist aternative) would have had all opposition leaders purged, pronto. He's not even a Putin-grade strongman, he's got more than enough basis for charging Guaido with treason and arresting him.

I mentioned upthread, but the closest historical parallel in my reading is Spain's Franco. Both Maduro and Franco got stuck in their positions due to a lack of other men stepping up. Maduro is stuck with the job running Venezuela for a lack of any other strong men who can step up to the job.

Maduro is clearly not very good at the job of running a country by most measures, but driving a state is harder than driving a bus.

Quote: (02-28-2019 07:26 PM)Latinopan Wrote:  

Quote: (02-27-2019 06:04 PM)Luvianka Wrote:  

The oil could be already considered USA's, there is not way Russia or China get their hands in Venezuela oil. Is geographically impossible for China or Russia to try anything in Latin America.

There's this specialized type of boat optimized for nothing other than moving large amounts of oil between continents.

In related matters... Artisan gold mining is a thing in Venezuela. Small groups of men going into the jungles and mountains with hand tools to produce ~10 grams of gold per man-month. Venezuela isn't just oil rich, it is mineral rich. And tropical beach paradise rich. Venezuelan cuisine is pretty good too.

Quote: (03-01-2019 08:38 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  

Quote: (02-27-2019 11:57 AM)911 Wrote:  

Maduro is nowhere near a proper dictator, Assad or Gaddafi, who fit that bill (although both are clearly better for their country than the globalist aternative) would have had all opposition leaders purged, pronto. He's not even a Putin-grade strongman, he's got more than enough basis for charging Guaido with treason and arresting him.

Why can't Maduro do a slow transition to a China like Economy? Is there anything he can do to resolve this crisis?

Well, Maduro can keep drilling the military and winning elections by large margins by pointing at the loud enemies outside the gates. Maybe along the way he gets better at running a state by taking lessons from Putin, Ergodan, and Xi?

Voters in democracies generally don't pick the best. Not the best people, not the best outcomes. Consider Trump is the best person the US could get now even though there was a time New York had even more serious businessmen and managers who make Trump look like a clown. It's too late to vote for them though because they are all dead. Trump's all the US has left which means he can't surround himself with good people. This means Madame Secretary Pompeo and John Bolton beating war drums because the only other people with experience want to paint the world pink for Soros.

This standoff is making the US state department "soft power" apparatus look very impotent on the world stage. I see no reason why a US military intervention in Venezuela would be any less embarrassing than Iraq, Libya, or Syria.

Quote: (03-01-2019 09:08 AM)lonewolf1992 Wrote:  

I respect those who are against the military intervention as you know, 'venezuela is none of our bussiness' and that is completely reasonable. Now I think is maybe is due to language barrier that some folks in here even have some sympathy for Maduro. The guy is literally one the most stupid, silly and naive 'politicians' we have seen in our lives, from the left and right we call him 'maburro' that stands for donkey. Even Chavez was a clever socialist piece of shit but the venezuelans know he was no pussy. Maduro is complete idiot you just have to see all the stupid things he say in his speeches. Man I fucking hate that pig. Cheers to everyone.

Maduro doesn't seem anymore dishonest than Peron, Lula, the Kirchners, Pepe Mujica, or Mother Merkel. Democracy has a structural problem in the inadequacy of the common homo sapien. People suck and they make bad decisions.

A lot of Venezuelan voters like Maduro and they respond enthusiastically to his sales pitch. Cubans overwhelmingly voted for a constitution that keeps the same people in power. Nearly 87% of ballots in favor, ~9% opposed, and 4.5 percent of ballots were blank or spoiled. When's the last time a US election reported the number of blank or spoiled ballots instead of engaging in "hanging chad" wank over "voter intent" after the fact.

Maduro is a problem for people in Venezuela who want a high standard of living, but he is a godsend for people who want to bucket crab their way to equality.

Chavez being clever is not a credit to Chavez. Chavez being clever is how Maduro got stuck leaving behind a comfortable life as the coolest of the bus drivers to try to drive an absolute mess now that the clever's run out. Clever hacks are why contemporary computing is an absolute mess. Venezuela is what happens when someone tries to run a country in the same way.

I was refereeing to the idea of Chinese, Russian military intervention in Venezuela. No matter how much China or Russia supports Venezuela the idea of any of them having any military presence in Latin America is dumb and they know it, there is also the problem that it could backfire hard on Maduro. Not matter how much close the governments are, the Venezuelans don't see China of Russia as having good intentions, any military intervention from them will make Venezuelans even more anti Maduro and even make them see USA as better option.

Venezuela is collapsing - Leonard D Neubache - 03-10-2019

China and Russia don't have to put troops in Venezuela to keep Uncle Sam out.

They probably let Trump know that if he starts fucking around in there then the rebels are going to mysteriously get their hands on a large quantity of untraceable single-production-run ground-to-ground and ground-to-air missiles.

China in particular is capable of that now. They could have resistance fighters swimming in that kind of hardware for pennies per unit. America also no longer has the kind of soft power to force China back in the box. That's my best guess as to why the US suddenly backed down and why I'm also suddenly hearing a shitload less on the radio about the plight of the poor, downtrodden Venezuelans. China may have made it clear that the US is no longer in a position to assume easy and cheap foreign incursions, a scenario that played out not so long ago in the Ukraine.

Venezuela is collapsing - Foolsgo1d - 03-10-2019

Quote: (03-10-2019 01:09 AM)natas305 Wrote:  

Quote: (03-08-2019 06:15 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Are we sure it's sabotage and not just the damn thing falling apart for lack of proper maintenance?

This. Everything in Venezuela is SO poorly maintained that this isn't far fetched.

Oh so just as the US-backed el-Pres is in the country, large protests are organsied and then all of a sudden the power decides to go out and transformers are seen to have been damaged or destroyed.

All a matter of coincidence eh?

[Image: tenor.gif]

Venezuela is collapsing - 911 - 03-10-2019

China will not intervene militarily, they are smart, and are playing the long game. They'll let Bolton and Abrams do their thing and pull the colonial card on Venezuela, and eventually the country will rebel and clamor to be under Chinese orbit. Same dynamic as in Africa, where most countries have been butt-raped for decades by corrupt ruling cliques propped by the West with loan sharking schemes by the IMF and World Bank stripping them of their resources with nothing to show for. The Chinese model also strips them of their resources, but in exchange they get shiny, functional new roads, dams, powerplants, sewers, airports, railways etc.

On top of the old Western colonial model, African countries now also have had to contend and comply with western globohomo, ever since Obama's second term. So now it's allow gay marriage or face the consequences in trade sanctions or worse. China doesn't do any of that shit. In fact they actively combat that kind of subversive social agenda at home.

[Image: _75664872_75664867.jpg]

Russia will not intervene in Venezuela either, at least not directly, partly for the same reasons as China above, but also because they actually benefit from chaos in Venezuela as a major oil producer. Russia is now selling a whole lot of oil to the US because the US is boycotting Venezuelan oil, a lot of which is processed in US Gulf Coast refineries. The Koch Brothers own most of this refining operation.

Russia will also come out on top in the long term if Venezuelans reject US interference. See Syria, where the US/NATO funded and propped up the "moderate rebels" who run roughshod all over the country and caused Syrians to rally under Assad and welcome the Russians as friends and liberators.

Part of the reason the US is playing hardball with Venezuela is that the Kochs want to be in full control of the crude at the source, they want to secure the kind of sweetheart discount deals from their Venezuelan wells that they used to get back in the 1990s, when they owned the government, before Chavez came in and nationalized their oil, putting an end to the party. Those Gulf Coast refineries are adapted to process heavy grade Venezuelan oil, and Chavez leveraged this to force the Koch bros. to pay him top rate for their crude.

That's one of the angles that you won't hear about on Fox or CNN.