Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - Printable Version

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - Apollo21 - 05-27-2015

Quote: (05-27-2015 09:05 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

Apollo, all I have been saying is that some guys get so little profit from 1 stream of revenue
that they're better off not doing it, to keep with your business analogy. Currently not doing online
because it sucks Where I am.

For jof he got 60 girls in 1 year off of strictly online game. Why would he do anything else? At that point,
he'd be wasting time better spent building his side businesses

It really depends on where you are in your mastery of game.

Most guys start off by doing what works...maybe it's just going to a club
or dating girls at university. You've got to start somewhere.

After a while though, after you've had enough experiences and success
you reach a point where you look to develop additional opportunities where
you can profit massively...rather than just being tossed and turned by the tide.

In the business world, that's called research and development or investment.
With game, you must develop new strategies and new opportunities if you want to
meet quality women and advance your game.

I know all about Sugardaddy game. The girls are prettier and actively looking
for a successful guy. I just got turned off by the fact that so many bank on their looks
to get a guy to pay their bills, or they are in desperate situations financially
and they want you to come to the rescue.

That's the dream for them. It's much more of a transactional relationship.

It's great that JOF is having success. However I just prefer a different
crowd; normal girls who are a little more genuine and not so motivated
(or desperate) for financial gain or material reward.

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - rudebwoy - 05-28-2015

^ Where do you find these normal girls who are genuine?

Most girls are looking for a successful guy, not sure how you escape this fact. Sure "game" might help to a certain extent but considering a lot of girls are making decent money, they want a guy on par with them financially.

I notice your flag says Germany, I assume things are easier there compared to North America.

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - Apollo21 - 05-29-2015

The simple answer is normal girls are everywhere. What makes it difficult
is getting access to the kind of girls you want. You need leverage and
a system that makes it easy to meet girls.

The truth is that it's vicious out there. Day game gives you only so many options.
Same goes for night game. To compete and win you have to do the opposite of what
the crowd does.

There are many strategies you can use...the one reason why a lot of successful guys meet
quality girls is that they're busy connecting people, organizing events, and creating opportunities
in their business life...which naturally blends into their personal life.

If I were in the States, and I wanted an athletic girl for example. I would start getting involved
in bodybuilding and fitness modeling competitions. Not as a competitor, but as a spectator first
and then I'd start interacting with the companies in that industry...the supplement companies
the fitness trainers etc...networking etc building relationships with people.

Is it a lot of work, sure. But it gives you an advantage many guys just don't have. It's just like
a job market. If you want to be paid the most, then you have to have the skills that are in high demand
along with knowing the right people.

Dating is the exact same way. If you don't have any real world skills besides "game"
a lot of successful girls are going to lose interest.

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - Sourcecode - 05-31-2015

I thought the podcast was good.
I remember looking at his website even though it's kinda defunct now.. I'm not exactly sure what his company is.

But his insight is good.. If he is making money.. He's making money.
Few people really have that hustle mentality. You had find a way to cut a profit in anything.

Even fewer people know how to make their money grow..
He is trying to capitalize in what he has and make his money grow
When it comes to game.. I think I've heard enough blogs on game and younger brothers that are going well in the game all have similar mentalities when it comes to game.
That part doesn't seem as new to me

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - WestIndianArchie - 05-31-2015

Quote: (05-28-2015 08:28 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

^ Where do you find these normal girls who are genuine?

Most girls are looking for a successful guy, not sure how you escape this fact. Sure "game" might help to a certain extent but considering a lot of girls are making decent money, they want a guy on par with them financially.

I notice your flag says Germany, I assume things are easier there compared to North America.

Don't agree with the "on par" part.

Here in the States, the girls typically want a guy who make considerably more money than she does.

She wants a lifestyle change. No more Red Lobster, she wants Lobster Thermidor.

So if she's a doctor, he's a surgeon.
If she's a teacher, he's a principal if not superintendent.
If she's a lawyer, he's a partner.
If she's a real estate agent, he's a developer.

So much more that she only works to make disposable income for trivial shit like purses, shoes, manis and pedis.

We're talking 1.5, 2, 3x, 10x times what she's making.

She feels like she deserves it. Bitches got the nerve to talk about "We" just expanded the business.

"How you gonna do all that hard work yourself and not give nothing to me?" © Typical American Chick.

Wanting a rich man is a trap of the woman's own design.

Years ago, I posted a blog entry about the wives of doctors.
- Most of these ladies tend to be educated.
- Lots of them tend to be stay at home wives/mothers.

They hold down the home as best as they can, some of that includes getting cooks, maids, and nannies.

An educated woman who's decided to become a stay at home mom/wife for a rich man
- she's bored out of her mind talking to children
- she's idle much of the day

Most of all, to make that kind of money, most men have to work more than 40 hours a week.

That's what they don't realize. He probably didn't have that much time when he was courting her, and living with him usually means less quality time.

I see it all the time, blue collar and white collar

A lawyer or banker making top dollar works 80-100 hours a week. When he's not in the office, he's in his home office, or checking his smartphone for new developments. Dating half a man was fine, but marrying him is not.

On the blue collar side

http://www.humansofnewyork.com/post/1199...wasnt-much



Guy - “I grew up in West Harlem where there wasn’t much opportunity. When I got my job with the MTA, suddenly I was making five times more money than I had ever made before. So all I could think about was not wasting the opportunity. Once I worked a whole month straight with no days off. With overtime, I think I clocked 180 hours during a two-week period. I felt like any time that I wasn’t working was time wasted."

These days I don’t work nearly as much.

Photog - “What caused the change?”

Guy - “She broke up with me for awhile.”
__________________________________________________________________

You have tons of chicks that want a guy with money, but what they really want is the money and the guy, not necessarily the package deal.

Hearing shit like she don't like "Raising Children Alone"

Bitch sure likes that M Class Mercedes.
She sure likes not worrying about moving to a good school district.
She likes shopping @ the good grocery store.

Yet to give her that lifestyle, all she does is bitch and complain.

I need to change threads, i'm getting bitter by proxy. LOL

Long story short, FUCK WHAT SHE WANTS.

She doesn't really know what she wants.
When she gets it, she sabotages it.

She wants a guy that's fit, but then she wants to eat out all the time and keep him off his diet.

She wants a guy that's handsome, a guy that other women want, but gets mad when other women flirt with him

She wants a guy with money, but mad that he saves his money, he invests, or he spends time making that money and not with her.

She wants a thug, and then mad when he stops beating on other cats and starts beating on her, cause she got outta line.

What does the player want?
What does he want?
What do we want?

That's what matters.

I know if holla at a chick that wears heels and tight ass dresses on the regular, some dudes out there are gonna test me when I'm with her, and some players will get at her when I'm not. I go into the situation knowing that.

Big titties? She needs expensive bras and them shits gonna eventually sag
Phat Ass, probably a year or two out from being Fat.
Bitchy attitude, that shits gonna turn my way eventually.
Submissive, she's going to make me do the thinking for her.

For all the upsides, there are downsides.

But players know that when they get into the game.

Women do not. And they make the man pay for her ignorance.

WIA

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - rudebwoy - 05-31-2015

WIA - yes I agree, I was being nice to Apollo when I said on par.

Work in any corporate situation and you will see how girls socialize with Managers, Directors etc.

The money dynamic is much stronger in the west, the more affluent your city is - the greater the problem. That is why I have to respect JOF Superman hustle, he has identified the problem and has found a hustle that works for him. He seriously has me contemplating joining the SA site, despite the bad taste in mouth online dating gives me.

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - rhodey - 05-31-2015

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - Apollo21 - 05-31-2015

It's not a money problem.

It's a prospecting and qualification problem.

As a guy, you already know you need to make a certain amount
of money to support yourself...and take care of a family
when the time comes.

The challenge is getting to high caliber women who are worthwhile,
who will be an asset rather than a liability.

It's a competitive world. If you don't move fast, then all you'll get
are the women with problems and the women who tend to exploit
rather than contribute.

You've got to be aggressive and filter out all the women who
aren't going to help you. It's the same when prospecting for clients.

Out of 100 prospects, I might have only 10 prospects who qualify...
and then 5 who actually become clients. It's the same with women.

That's why networking is so powerful. You're looking for that top 10%.

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - coverdoc - 06-01-2015

I hear you WIA, I've become pretty adapt to renting dreams. All too often I run into Americunts looking for a come up and thinking someone like myself will improve their life. I just play the game, but in the way I want. Sadly enough this ideology seems to be more rampant in the black community. Every Afro-American chick I met who is in Law school, med school, phD etc has their head soooo far up their asses it's ridiculous. What's even more sad is that the brothers in respective fields put up with it. Well the smart ones jump ship. I was talking to someone about this the other day and we came to the conclusion that all the attractive, intelligent, good attitude and feminine black chicks are already locked down and those brothers aren't letting them go. What we are left with are the mentally fucked, too good to need a man, i have a dick too type of females.

As far as the guy in the video, he is pretty accurate. Although when I lived in Mexico I did tend to stay away from the hip-hop swag brothers I ran into. They just seemed to enjoy fitting this stereotype of thug/hip-hop gangster role and that shit is not what I am on. I will say this, every brother i've seen abroad with 8+ quality chicks(fine face and amazing body) were well dressed GQ types that you could tell had a serious career going and did not attempt to even play into that thug role. That sh*t is cool for the lower tier chicks < 7, but if you want a high quality fresa, they aren't going to be impress simply because you're black and can dance to young thug.

-CD

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - WestIndianArchie - 06-01-2015

dude in the video seemed/sounded young. Can't knock him for being himself.

The video with him and his boy at the club. Ehh, I've dated way hotter Mexicanas before game. If wanted a gordita, I don't need to leave the states for that.

Problem with video is that believing is seeing.

WIA

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - WestIndianArchie - 06-03-2015

I'm not really a white knight, more of a dark prince

Finally got a chance to check this one out.

I need my journey of superman poster, stat!

I'm curious as to whether JoS pimps his profile Blizerian?

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - Fortis - 06-03-2015

Are any black men on this forum really pushing the thug role? I can't pull it off. Not that I want to. Doesn't fit my style or personality.

But I hear a lot of mention of thug black guys doing alright abroad. I don't see thugs abroad, so I'm just curious.

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - SuS - 06-03-2015

Let's cut the shit. Do you need to be a swagfag yo-yo-yo wannabe thug coon in order to get Mexican bitches? And why does it seem like it's always the little thug types are the ones who are always make these "Do _______ Women Like Black Men" overseas vids? I thought the "On Point" black men who were traveling the most? America's already a lost cause for any on-point black man who's about his business to date outside the race (and to really think about it, even black women). We don't need our image being ruined internationally.

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - Fortis - 06-03-2015

^ I agree with the sentiment, but let's not call these guys fags. Some of these dudes are pretty cool, but they just look a certain way, so I'm not down with your name calling on that matter.

Furthermore, it is up to each man to represent himself the way he wants to be seen. Sure, sometimes an idiot abroad (or domestically) makes up look bad, but why should we all be represented by the actions of one man. I think the black men on this forum know what's up, so it's not a big deal.

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - WestIndianArchie - 06-03-2015

Quote: (06-03-2015 06:48 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

^ I agree with the sentiment, but let's not call these guys fags. Some of these dudes are pretty cool, but they just look a certain way, so I'm not down with your name calling on that matter.

Furthermore, it is up to each man to represent himself the way he wants to be seen. Sure, sometimes an idiot abroad (or domestically) makes up look bad, but why should we all be represented by the actions of one man. I think the black men on this forum know what's up, so it's not a big deal.

All the forum guys that I've heard do well in Mexico
- 25+
- college educated
- working professionals

Now i'm as white collar AND hip hop as they come, and i've always done well with Mex-Ams and Mex Nationals here in the States. I can't imagine doing poorly in DF or Guadalajara, but hopefully I'll find out soon.

A lot of brothers that I notice that get in this side of the game
- blue collar backgrounds but have good paying jobs
- middle class background, white collar job
- African, Caribbean, or from a diff mindset of blackness.

Rarely do I see a dude who was in Greek Letter Organization, or a cat that looks up to Young Thug.

That being said, in my experience
- really thugged out lagartas , or mafia'd up - go with those kind of guys

Violeta Rodriguez



- Student largatas from DF gravitate to the Lenny Kravitz/Marley types (Thank Jah)

- Mex/Am lagartas that are middle class, can go black, but often have a strong preference for the Blanco.

- Mexican nationals lagaratas- straight from Jalisco types - you need good Spanish and you have to seek them out. Cause you're not running across them
at your regular stomping grounds.

WIA

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - rhodey - 06-03-2015

Quote: (06-03-2015 06:48 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

^ I agree with the sentiment, but let's not call these guys fags. Some of these dudes are pretty cool, but they just look a certain way, so I'm not down with your name calling on that matter.

Furthermore, it is up to each man to represent himself the way he wants to be seen. Sure, sometimes an idiot abroad (or domestically) makes up look bad, but why should we all be represented by the actions of one man. I think the black men on this forum know what's up, so it's not a big deal.

Agreed... and really what is a "thug"? I judge a thug by his actions, not his "style". Speech even clothing don't always tell the whole story. This kid in the video has the wherewithal to learn the culture and language and doesn't seem to be putting on any kind of act . I don't see that as thug like behavior.

Now you have plenty of fake GQ types of brothas who wont even acknowledge another blackman passing by when they see you in another country. So are those types any better?

Bottom line is that Mexico seems pretty wide open for all type of brothas.

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - SuS - 06-03-2015

Quote: (06-03-2015 08:34 PM)rhodey Wrote:  

Quote: (06-03-2015 06:48 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

^ I agree with the sentiment, but let's not call these guys fags. Some of these dudes are pretty cool, but they just look a certain way, so I'm not down with your name calling on that matter.

Furthermore, it is up to each man to represent himself the way he wants to be seen. Sure, sometimes an idiot abroad (or domestically) makes up look bad, but why should we all be represented by the actions of one man. I think the black men on this forum know what's up, so it's not a big deal.

Agreed... and really what is a "thug"? I judge a thug by his actions, not his "style". Speech even clothing don't always tell the whole story. This kid in the video has the wherewithal to learn the culture and language and doesn't seem to be putting on any kind of act . I don't see that as thug like behavior.

Now you have plenty of fake GQ types of brothas who wont even acknowledge another blackman passing by when they see you in another country. So are those types any better?

Bottom line is that Mexico seems pretty wide open for all type of brothas.

I'll take back the "fag" part, but still, a lot of people think this "urban swag" culture is cute. Some of us however had to live under it like it was the Iron Curtain. And it was either be a degenerate drop-out little shit or face social isolation; there was no middle ground. As for the GQ types with Black Frat license tags and only giving "da hook up" to blacks who shuck and jive, I don't have any love for those douches either. And from what I recalled, I thought trends only lasted for a decade at most like Disco, Glam Metal, and Grunge. This Rap/hood culture has been shoved down Black Men's throats since the 90s.

But I'm glad to hear optimistic reports about Mexico. Doesn't explain the anti-black sentiment a lot of people talk about occurs in Los Angeles. But then again, being anti-black is what makes America...America. If not, America would just be Canada on steroids.

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - rhodey - 06-03-2015

Quote: (06-03-2015 10:26 PM)SuS Wrote:  

Quote: (06-03-2015 08:34 PM)rhodey Wrote:  

Quote: (06-03-2015 06:48 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

^ I agree with the sentiment, but let's not call these guys fags. Some of these dudes are pretty cool, but they just look a certain way, so I'm not down with your name calling on that matter.

Furthermore, it is up to each man to represent himself the way he wants to be seen. Sure, sometimes an idiot abroad (or domestically) makes up look bad, but why should we all be represented by the actions of one man. I think the black men on this forum know what's up, so it's not a big deal.

Agreed... and really what is a "thug"? I judge a thug by his actions, not his "style". Speech even clothing don't always tell the whole story. This kid in the video has the wherewithal to learn the culture and language and doesn't seem to be putting on any kind of act . I don't see that as thug like behavior.

Now you have plenty of fake GQ types of brothas who wont even acknowledge another blackman passing by when they see you in another country. So are those types any better?

Bottom line is that Mexico seems pretty wide open for all type of brothas.

I'll take back the "fag" part, but still, a lot of people think this "urban swag" culture is cute. Some of us however had to live under it like it was the Iron Curtain. And it was either be a degenerate drop-out little shit or face social isolation; there was no middle ground.

Yep sad but kinda true. But then you thats why we look into travel. To escape the Matrix and find the women that appreciate the non stereotypes.

Quote:Quote:

As for the GQ types with Black Frat license tags and only giving "da hook up" to blacks who shuck and jive, I don't have any love for those douches either. And from what I recalled, I thought trends only lasted for a decade at most like Disco, Glam Metal, and Grunge. This Rap/hood culture has been shoved down Black Men's throats since the 90s.

lol ...

Quote:Quote:

But I'm glad to hear optimistic reports about Mexico. Doesn't explain the anti-black sentiment a lot of people talk about occurs in Los Angeles. But then again, being anti-black is what makes America...America. If not, America would just be Canada on steroids.

Supposedly that came of out prison culture and competition over turf. But in their motherland we seem to be the novelty.

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - ElJefe1 - 06-04-2015

@sus, it sounds like your blaming others for your struggles, instead of pointing at others look in the mirror. Do what you need to do to improve yourself as opposed to worrying about how the next man is living.

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - WestIndianArchie - 06-04-2015

Take this convo to a different thread. Don't ruin this one with bullshit.

WIA

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - MidWest - 06-04-2015

Quote: (06-03-2015 10:26 PM)SuS Wrote:  

Quote: (06-03-2015 08:34 PM)rhodey Wrote:  

Quote: (06-03-2015 06:48 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

^ I agree with the sentiment, but let's not call these guys fags. Some of these dudes are pretty cool, but they just look a certain way, so I'm not down with your name calling on that matter.

Furthermore, it is up to each man to represent himself the way he wants to be seen. Sure, sometimes an idiot abroad (or domestically) makes up look bad, but why should we all be represented by the actions of one man. I think the black men on this forum know what's up, so it's not a big deal.

Agreed... and really what is a "thug"? I judge a thug by his actions, not his "style". Speech even clothing don't always tell the whole story. This kid in the video has the wherewithal to learn the culture and language and doesn't seem to be putting on any kind of act . I don't see that as thug like behavior.

Now you have plenty of fake GQ types of brothas who wont even acknowledge another blackman passing by when they see you in another country. So are those types any better?

Bottom line is that Mexico seems pretty wide open for all type of brothas.

I'll take back the "fag" part, but still, a lot of people think this "urban swag" culture is cute. Some of us however had to live under it like it was the Iron Curtain. And it was either be a degenerate drop-out little shit or face social isolation; there was no middle ground. As for the GQ types with Black Frat license tags and only giving "da hook up" to blacks who shuck and jive, I don't have any love for those douches either. And from what I recalled, I thought trends only lasted for a decade at most like Disco, Glam Metal, and Grunge. This Rap/hood culture has been shoved down Black Men's throats since the 90s.

But I'm glad to hear optimistic reports about Mexico. Doesn't explain the anti-black sentiment a lot of people talk about occurs in Los Angeles. But then again, being anti-black is what makes America...America. If not, America would just be Canada on steroids.

I'm Mexican American and I would say that the people of Mexico are a completely different animal than the Mexicans living in LA. Just like African Americans are not the same as Africans from Africa. Its not really fair to paint a whole country just from the stories you hear from LA.

Like you said, being anti-black is an American thing. In Mexico you will never get the same backlash you may get in LA for instance. Once they cross that border, something about being here makes harbor those racist tendencies, it could be the media, tv, stereotypes and whatnot and living along side another group when they never even had to before coming to America.

You'll be fine in Mexico, people would go out of their way to make you feel welcomed. I can vouch for the guy's video as well. I've seen it with my own eyes. Only thing I recommend is learning how to speak Spanish, it would go a long way.

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - Zooxanthellae - 06-04-2015

I'm not touching the anti vs. pro Black conversation with a ten-foot pole, BUT...

I've found one of the reasons that I like traveling (at least in Europe where I've spent the vast majority of my non-US time abroad) is that you can mix a little bit of the GQ brother swag AND the Hip-Hop fan swag and it's actually endearing or intriguing, not only to the women but just the people under 30 in general, easy to make friends.

One frustrating thing about modern America in my eyes is that the "social behavior" boxes are so defined... EITHER you are a full blown Shuck and Jive coon with a Frat License OR you are a full blown Young Thung tattoo-teared wearing MF'er OR you are Carlton Banks OR you are a black skater OR (insert random social expectation box most Black men under 30 must adhere to)...

I found that overseas you can be a bit more a mixture of yourself, and always fall back on the "Black American/Canadian/etc. Cool Stylish Likable Guy" frame and everyone gets down with it.

I imagine being an Englishmen in America might be somewhat similar, in the sense that whereas in England there are all these social castes and all that "posh" vs. "Middle-Class" vs. "Northerner" vs. "Cockney" etc. stuff but in America you're just a British dude and you can kind of fill it in from there.

Maybe Moma has some insights on this?

In any case, one of the main reasons I want to move overseas permanently is I'm sick of the American "As A Black Man You Are Either Carlton Banks or You Are 2Pac" frame a lot of interactions boil down to...

TL;DR I like Jay Z and I like Arctic Monkeys, sue me

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - coverdoc - 06-05-2015

Back on topic: Yes mexico is the place to go. One moment I was at a rock concert in a mosh pit, next i'm at an electronic rave sweating balls.. Learning spanish is a plus, but not a must, like say Korean in Korea. One of my first teamers living in mexico spoke no english and myself no spanish. We got along just fine and she had the best tits i've seen on a chica.

As far as how to present yourself, i think i came off a little judgemental of the dude in the youtube clip. Rhodey made a good point, can't really be a thug traveling and trying to learn the language. All in all i love Mexico and will probably buy a house out there sometime in the future. I still have yet to explore some of the second tier cities like Mazatlan and Hermosillo.

It will be super duper uber rare to run into racism/hostility. Like someone posted above, most honestly go out of their way to make you feel comfortable, ESPECIALLY when they find out you are from a major U.S city. I've ran into cholos with the tats and face of killers mean mug me only when I got close, say what's up, ask me where i'm from, and mention girls. Mexican dudes love to talk about girls all day, my kind of people. The only racism/discrimination i ran into there was just like in Europe: from U.S peeps (go figure).

Now don't get me started on Europe, Estonia anyone?

-CD

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - MY DETROIT PLAYAS - 06-05-2015

I'm enjoying all this intel on Mexico, kinda fly

Just afraid I'd go down there and never want to come back

Talking diving in with two feet, mastering my Spanish and even changing my tag

Can't you just see it now? MY TIJUANA PLAYAS

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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options - btown1 - 06-05-2015

coverdoc, is far Eastern Europe really that bad?

It's reputation is bad but so is Spain's where I currently live and I have never experienced an ounce of racism.

Also lived in Croatia and the same thing. In both case Ive found incredible social value in being African American.

Like I would have experienced more racist encounters spanning the same amount of years in the Bay Area of all places where I grew up, relative to anywhere I've lived in Europe.

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