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Ukraine conflict lounge - jimukr104 - 03-16-2014

Quote: (03-16-2014 05:54 PM)rastignac Wrote:  

Quote: (03-15-2014 05:11 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

What will Russia do next?

-Full scale invasion of Ukraine
-Invasion of Eastern Ukraine
-Stay in Crimea

Putin seems to be a fan of probing. He goes past the line and measures the response by the international community and Ukraine itself. He did this in Crimea with the "self defense forces" and seems to be doing it again around Kherson. Unless Ukraine attacks his guys with their pitiful army or the West starts shooting, he will take that as a green light and proceed. Why wouldn't he? Ukraine is basically up for the grabing with no competent army and no military assistance from the West, and Putin has already shown signs that he's in it for the long haul (recently transferring securities from the US Fed while executing a naval blocking action in Lithuania). It's looking increasingly likely that Russian troops will enter Ukraine en masse. He also doesn't seem to want Ukraine to be split in multiple countries, so he will play for keeps.

Full scale invasion of Ukraine. Shock and awe. Staged as an internal self-defense action against the "fascists".

Probe on Moldova.

Make NATO squirm about the Baltics.
He already kind of owns Moldova since transneister is attached!

Ukraine conflict lounge - Mekorig - 03-16-2014

Quote: (03-16-2014 10:46 AM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Quote: (03-16-2014 10:41 AM)Mekorig Wrote:  

For once, i have to agree with jimukr104. Putin can conquest all, or half of Ukraine, but can not hold it, even the eastern side. There is alot of people that, while rusophones, will not like at all the prescence of russian troops.

Are you implying that the rest of the time you don't agree with my good sense that MOST others who have actually Traveled and Been there seem to agreed with?
(Didn't know Argentinians read backwards [Image: banana.gif]).j/k

I warned you that you let your political bias get in your way of seeing others point of views and even reality. Don't beat yourself up over it..your NOT the only one who does that(western media is very guilty of this).

It really has all to do with military force numbers more than how the locals feel. When the US invaded Iraq we were also very short for occupation as well. But some key differences:
a. Most were cool with it in the beginning.
b. We paid over 250k of their military and police forces that disbanded to basically work for us.
c. Iraq had much less large cities that were of strategic importance to have to guard.
d. Russia bordering on Ukraine is a liability for Russia. Means even more areas they have to protect/guard.
e. Ukraine and Russia have more similar type technology/equipment(although Russia has some newer stuff)
Now if Russia formed a war economy like Germany did..sure, they can take Ukraine just like it was in the past taken.


Shesss jimukr104, get down of the high horse! You have your pro-putin (i would say russian, but you have a almost "fandom" fixation with Putin) PoV, and i have mine. Your opinion is influenced by your personal interactions with the country and the people you know there (your wife and her family). Mine is based on what i know, and what people of my own family told me, people both in the west and east part of Ukraine. As i already told you, we have our diferent PoV, so its your choice to stop showing yourself as the owner of the absolute truht about the while issue. Chill down.

Ukraine conflict lounge - rastignac - 03-16-2014

Quote: (03-15-2014 05:37 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Quote: (03-15-2014 05:11 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

What will Russia do next?

-Full scale invasion of Ukraine
-Invasion of Eastern Ukraine
-Stay in Crimea

Putin seems to be a fan of probing. He goes past the line and measures the response by the international community and Ukraine itself. He did this in Crimea with the "self defense forces" and seems to be doing it again around Kherson. Unless Ukraine attacks his guys with their pitiful army or the West starts shooting, he will take that as a green light and proceed. Why wouldn't he? Ukraine is basically up for the grabing with no competent army and no military assistance from the West, and Putin has already shown signs that he's in it for the long haul (recently transferring securities from the US Fed while executing a naval blocking action in Lithuania). It's looking increasingly likely that Russian troops will enter Ukraine en masse. He also doesn't seem to want Ukraine to be split in multiple countries, so he will play for keeps.

but what is his purpose?
He can't occupy Ukraine. He isn't Stalin nor is his army that large and motivated.
The people don't want him there so it won't be productive for him.
Could he want to get rid of the new gov't and put VK back?
Putin has lost his mind.. and NUKES will be coming that means. UA is useless broke country.

I take Putin at his word about his purpose.
Purpose? Restore the spirit of the illegally dissolved Soviet state.
Occupy Ukraine? There is no occupying an artificial country.
The will of the people? The people of Ukraine are pleading for intervention to be saved from lawlessness.
The current government is illegal and Yanukovych is the legal president. He will temporarily be reinstated as a new order gets drawn up.

Ukraine conflict lounge - rastignac - 03-16-2014

Quote: (03-15-2014 09:29 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:  

Russia definitely doesn't have the capability to attack and occupy all of Ukraine. Besides that, this isn't about pure conquest for Putin. He doesn't want to conquer the western nationalist Ukrainians areas. It'd just look bad internationally... plus it'd cost too much blood and cause a lot of long-term headaches. Just not in Russia's interests.

I agree with Jim, a full-on invasion would go all the way up to the Dnieper and butt up to Kiev... from Belarus down to the Black Sea. Plus tack on the whole Black Sea coast west of the Dnieper and reach Transdniestria which will land-lock the "new" Ukraine and make them worthless (except as a pawn to the West). But then the politics of aligning the western part of Ukraine with NATO and the EU becomes an issue. Russia wouldn't really be able to stop that, I'd think.

Really, I think Putin is just faking us out and he's going to attack Mongolia since it's so rich in resources and only has 2.8 million people. In fact, I think I just read about the Molotov-Chang Pact on how Russia and China will divide it up. [Image: smile.gif]

In all seriousness, I wonder why the Soviet Union didn't swallow up Mongolia at the end of WWII while China was still in disarray.

Controlling Kiev is important for Putin and Russian ultra-nationalism generally. Any interest intervention without taking Kiev would be a compromise for them.

Lviv would be difficult. They could perhaps punt and return to pre-WWII borders and blame Stalin. Western Ukrainians are just poles anyway, right?

[Image: Western_Ukrainian_SSR_1940_after_annexat...Poland.jpg]

Ukraine conflict lounge - jimukr104 - 03-16-2014

Quote: (03-16-2014 06:43 PM)Mekorig Wrote:  

Quote: (03-16-2014 10:46 AM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Quote: (03-16-2014 10:41 AM)Mekorig Wrote:  

For once, i have to agree with jimukr104. Putin can conquest all, or half of Ukraine, but can not hold it, even the eastern side. There is alot of people that, while rusophones, will not like at all the prescence of russian troops.

Are you implying that the rest of the time you don't agree with my good sense that MOST others who have actually Traveled and Been there seem to agreed with?
(Didn't know Argentinians read backwards [Image: banana.gif]).j/k

I warned you that you let your political bias get in your way of seeing others point of views and even reality. Don't beat yourself up over it..your NOT the only one who does that(western media is very guilty of this).

It really has all to do with military force numbers more than how the locals feel. When the US invaded Iraq we were also very short for occupation as well. But some key differences:
a. Most were cool with it in the beginning.
b. We paid over 250k of their military and police forces that disbanded to basically work for us.
c. Iraq had much less large cities that were of strategic importance to have to guard.
d. Russia bordering on Ukraine is a liability for Russia. Means even more areas they have to protect/guard.
e. Ukraine and Russia have more similar type technology/equipment(although Russia has some newer stuff)
Now if Russia formed a war economy like Germany did..sure, they can take Ukraine just like it was in the past taken.


Shesss jimukr104, get down of the high horse! You have your pro-putin (i would say russian, but you have a almost "fandom" fixation with Putin) PoV, and i have mine. Your opinion is influenced by your personal interactions with the country and the people you know there (your wife and her family). Mine is based on what i know, and what people of my own family told me, people both in the west and east part of Ukraine. As i already told you, we have our diferent PoV, so its your choice to stop showing yourself as the owner of the absolute truht about the while issue. Chill down.

Dude..you are the one who decided to say "for ONCE". But NO we are beyond our different teams we are rooting for.I have no desire to lose Crimea. Our differences were obviously about either pro maiden vs pro NON MAIDEN.
But in the last 2 weeks most people posting have been talking about the possible war... so its all opinions about possible outcomes, etc.
The only other possible POV is if one thinks Russia had a right to protect its interests or Not.
Since every country basically makes foreign policy for its own interests its a no brainer!
But reality is since my predictions have been pretty accurate...it means to not agree is the same as "saying it didn't rain, after the rain storm" lol.
Also after some of the shit the new gov't has done .I don't understand with good conscience how you can even support that movement anymore. Just like many of us said..it was sham.
Look who they filled up positions with?
Arresting possible candidates from the East that can run against them.
Lets not forget that I posted that i think it was Red Sector all along that shot the protesters. Now we find out likely they have. Where is that investigation?
No the kiev gov't speculating it was Putin is BS. . because as a lowly cop i know about ballistics and I can only assume a top KGB guy(= to FBI) and special forces would know NOT to use the same gun and ammo to kill both protesters and cops.
Face it the coup e tat was WESTERN supported and funded regardless if you think they should be absorbed into a vassal state of Brussels or NOT.
As for Putin love as you call it..well he is certainly better than any current western leader. ..but I thought we established that is faster to type Putin than to type Russia. Besides he has more power of action than the majority of western leadership. So it is better to say "USA" instead of "Obama" since Obama is a puppet for corporate and neoconsevative agendas in this matter.
So I hardly think that was the "only post" you agree with..unless your completely biased or just narrow minded and who decided NOT to read every article or news source I or others posted both western and non western that discusses possible outcomes.
Funny thing is if you support my view or not doesn't really matter but over 90% of my predictions have come true. I still remember you doubting when i said Russia will invade a few days after the Olympics.. which is what he has done.


My view has been developed by observing 14 years of this divide widening. I should also add that I live in Brooklyn..the largest hotbed of FSU outside the FSU so daily I am bombarded with this shit daily. Oh yeah, I know plenty of people in who live there who I am not related to. We don't even agree because we have different agendas..but they can't even now say I "didn't call" correctly.
Your problem is that you think emotionally about it , that it is about ukraine.. but ALL ALONG those of us who are on our "high horse" as you call it know its about geopolitics.
Sorry but your family doesn't get to decide about ukraine..nor do I! Ukraine is a victim of its location in Europe and that does mean Russia gets to partly decide.
Its the way of weaker countries everywhere.
I guess you didn't agree with me when I said "USA would do the same thing if mexico or Canada had a similar coup e tat"?

PS..I gave you a rep point because you deserve it for having to put up"with those who come across as being all knowing". Interestingly that's a sign of your own insecurity because I just state my opionions, experiences and never said" I know it all", lol. You said that. Very beta thinking!If you have another opinion you can always state what you think without comments referring to another poster. And if you do then you ought to explain your view point based on logic and what is happening..not someones else personal preference!Talking about what a family member perceives based on their own desired outcome is..is quite frankly wrong!
It be like me writing data sheets based on what friends of mine have told me about a specific country lol.

Ukraine conflict lounge - Mekorig - 03-16-2014

oh, who nice, jimukr104 give me a rep point! [Image: angel.gif]

My " so called" family in Ukraine is composed by the families of both my paternal and maternal grandparents (expect for my maternal grandparent, that was from near Lugo, in Galicia). Both side of the family are from the Ternopil Oblast, and some come to Argentine at the beginning of the 30`s. Then, in the 50`s, some of them (from my father side) come back to Ukraine, and were sended to Makiivka, to work on the coal and steel industries. My family in Argentina mantained contact with both sides of the family back in Ukraine, ties that were reinforced in 2001, when my parent went to the country to visit them. Since then we keep constant contact by mail and skype, and i personally keep a more direct contact with two of them via whatsup. i personally know little of ukranian, but my parents comunicate with them in ukranian and spanish (specially with my family in Makiivka). I do it generally in english and spanish. Their point of view are diverse, the ones who are in Ternopil are more pro-maidan, the ones in Makiivka took a more neutral stance (expect for one, the son of one of my father`s cousin, that got into a extreme pro-russian group).

My personal point of view is made in part of my owninterest in diplomatical relations info, and part on what they told me (the contact with them got almost dialy since the beggining on the Crimea crisis). Also, its my perosnal ideology, and my aversion to mafia-like figures like Putin.

In resume, i understand some of the things you say in your last post (i do not agree), but what i am trying to say to you is that you are trying to appear like the "leading" voice in the whole issue, attacking anyone who does not agree with you (aside of the other poster that doesnt agreed with you, remember the PM you send to me?), and that your own bias is showing (heck, you made a whole new thread about him!).

Ukraine conflict lounge - rastignac - 03-16-2014

Quote: (03-16-2014 06:43 PM)Mekorig Wrote:  

Quote: (03-16-2014 10:46 AM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Quote: (03-16-2014 10:41 AM)Mekorig Wrote:  

For once, i have to agree with jimukr104. Putin can conquest all, or half of Ukraine, but can not hold it, even the eastern side. There is alot of people that, while rusophones, will not like at all the prescence of russian troops.

Are you implying that the rest of the time you don't agree with my good sense that MOST others who have actually Traveled and Been there seem to agreed with?
(Didn't know Argentinians read backwards [Image: banana.gif]).j/k

I warned you that you let your political bias get in your way of seeing others point of views and even reality. Don't beat yourself up over it..your NOT the only one who does that(western media is very guilty of this).

It really has all to do with military force numbers more than how the locals feel. When the US invaded Iraq we were also very short for occupation as well. But some key differences:
a. Most were cool with it in the beginning.
b. We paid over 250k of their military and police forces that disbanded to basically work for us.
c. Iraq had much less large cities that were of strategic importance to have to guard.
d. Russia bordering on Ukraine is a liability for Russia. Means even more areas they have to protect/guard.
e. Ukraine and Russia have more similar type technology/equipment(although Russia has some newer stuff)
Now if Russia formed a war economy like Germany did..sure, they can take Ukraine just like it was in the past taken.


Shesss jimukr104, get down of the high horse! You have your pro-putin (i would say russian, but you have a almost "fandom" fixation with Putin) PoV, and i have mine. Your opinion is influenced by your personal interactions with the country and the people you know there (your wife and her family). Mine is based on what i know, and what people of my own family told me, people both in the west and east part of Ukraine. As i already told you, we have our diferent PoV, so its your choice to stop showing yourself as the owner of the absolute truht about the while issue. Chill down.

I wish all the board members with skin in the game the best as things progress. I like others here have property, homes, extended families, investments in Ukraine.

Generally, there has been a preponderance of pro-Putin, Russian ultra-nationalist views on this board where babushka Soviet nostalgia is hardened by neo-liberal indigence about recent western interventionism. I have heard talk like some I the board in Ukraine: my girl's Ukrainian grandparents in their 80s. Everyone else I know (about 100 people I know socially and professionally) abhors Putin and what he is doing and fear the worst for their country, peppered with Ukrainian fatalism (remember their anthem is Ukraine has not yet perished).

Also, truth is out there if you use common sense and twitter. If you read Western press and RT for balance and end up confused, we'll put on your thinking cap and look at the facts in each case, Lies are lies. I would say the western press generally has its head up its ass and the Russian press has its head up Putin's ass, engaging in the largest propaganda war of the 21st century.

Back to my war mitigation planning....

Ukraine conflict lounge - JayJuanGee - 03-16-2014

Quote: (03-16-2014 07:22 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Quote: (03-16-2014 06:43 PM)Mekorig Wrote:  

Quote: (03-16-2014 10:46 AM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Quote: (03-16-2014 10:41 AM)Mekorig Wrote:  

For once, i have to agree with jimukr104. Putin can conquest all, or half of Ukraine, but can not hold it, even the eastern side. There is alot of people that, while rusophones, will not like at all the prescence of russian troops.

Are you implying that the rest of the time you don't agree with my good sense that MOST others who have actually Traveled and Been there seem to agreed with?
(Didn't know Argentinians read backwards [Image: banana.gif]).j/k

I warned you that you let your political bias get in your way of seeing others point of views and even reality. Don't beat yourself up over it..your NOT the only one who does that(western media is very guilty of this).

It really has all to do with military force numbers more than how the locals feel. When the US invaded Iraq we were also very short for occupation as well. But some key differences:
a. Most were cool with it in the beginning.
b. We paid over 250k of their military and police forces that disbanded to basically work for us.
c. Iraq had much less large cities that were of strategic importance to have to guard.
d. Russia bordering on Ukraine is a liability for Russia. Means even more areas they have to protect/guard.
e. Ukraine and Russia have more similar type technology/equipment(although Russia has some newer stuff)
Now if Russia formed a war economy like Germany did..sure, they can take Ukraine just like it was in the past taken.


Shesss jimukr104, get down of the high horse! You have your pro-putin (i would say russian, but you have a almost "fandom" fixation with Putin) PoV, and i have mine. Your opinion is influenced by your personal interactions with the country and the people you know there (your wife and her family). Mine is based on what i know, and what people of my own family told me, people both in the west and east part of Ukraine. As i already told you, we have our diferent PoV, so its your choice to stop showing yourself as the owner of the absolute truht about the while issue. Chill down.

Dude..you are the one who decided to say "for ONCE". But NO we are beyond our different teams we are rooting for.I have no desire to lose Crimea. Our differences were obviously about either pro maiden vs pro NON MAIDEN.
But in the last 2 weeks most people posting have been talking about the possible war... so its all opinions about possible outcomes, etc.
The only other possible POV is if one thinks Russia had a right to protect its interests or Not.
Since every country basically makes foreign policy for its own interests its a no brainer!
But reality is since my predictions have been pretty accurate...it means to not agree is the same as "saying it didn't rain, after the rain storm" lol.
Also after some of the shit the new gov't has done .I don't understand with good conscience how you can even support that movement anymore. Just like many of us said..it was sham.
Look who they filled up positions with?
Arresting possible candidates from the East that can run against them.
Lets not forget that I posted that i think it was Red Sector all along that shot the protesters. Now we find out likely they have. Where is that investigation?
No the kiev gov't speculating it was Putin is BS. . because as a lowly cop i know about ballistics and I can only assume a top KGB guy(= to FBI) and special forces would know NOT to use the same gun and ammo to kill both protesters and cops.
Face it the coup e tat was WESTERN supported and funded regardless if you think they should be absorbed into a vassal state of Brussels or NOT.
As for Putin love as you call it..well he is certainly better than any current western leader. ..but I thought we established that is faster to type Putin than to type Russia. Besides he has more power of action than the majority of western leadership. So it is better to say "USA" instead of "Obama" since Obama is a puppet for corporate and neoconsevative agendas in this matter.
So I hardly think that was the "only post" you agree with..unless your completely biased or just narrow minded and who decided NOT to read every article or news source I or others posted both western and non western that discusses possible outcomes.
Funny thing is if you support my view or not doesn't really matter but over 90% of my predictions have come true. I still remember you doubting when i said Russia will invade a few days after the Olympics.. which is what he has done.


My view has been developed by observing 14 years of this divide widening. I should also add that I live in Brooklyn..the largest hotbed of FSU outside the FSU so daily I am bombarded with this shit daily. Oh yeah, I know plenty of people in who live there who I am not related to. We don't even agree because we have different agendas..but they can't even now say I "didn't call" correctly.
Your problem is that you think emotionally about it , that it is about ukraine.. but ALL ALONG those of us who are on our "high horse" as you call it know its about geopolitics.
Sorry but your family doesn't get to decide about ukraine..nor do I! Ukraine is a victim of its location in Europe and that does mean Russia gets to partly decide.
Its the way of weaker countries everywhere.
I guess you didn't agree with me when I said "USA would do the same thing if mexico or Canada had a similar coup e tat"?

PS..I gave you a rep point because you deserve it for having to put up"with those who come across as being all knowing". Interestingly that's a sign of your own insecurity because I just state my opionions, experiences and never said" I know it all", lol. You said that. Very beta thinking!

Personally, I believe that it does NOT really matter if one guy predicts correctly or another guy predicts correctly, so long as he is providing reasons for his prediction. Providing a contrary prediction can be done without denigrating the other guy.

I understand that one of the problems that does occur, and especially with political conflict, is that the livelihood of some guys is either positively or negatively affected (and sometimes even literally, meaning people could get killed) - which can also affect the passion level.

Also, this is the kind of shit that can really piss off people b/c of the action (or inaction) of their government... and/or also whether they get pissed off b/c they find out that their government has been lying about certain material facts. I have my own reasons to get personally pissed off (including when I am contemplating travel plans... and thus future life actions), but I will leave my comments at that for now.

Ukraine conflict lounge - rastignac - 03-16-2014

Quote: (03-16-2014 05:58 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Quote: (03-16-2014 05:54 PM)rastignac Wrote:  

Quote: (03-15-2014 05:11 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

What will Russia do next?

-Full scale invasion of Ukraine
-Invasion of Eastern Ukraine
-Stay in Crimea

Putin seems to be a fan of probing. He goes past the line and measures the response by the international community and Ukraine itself. He did this in Crimea with the "self defense forces" and seems to be doing it again around Kherson. Unless Ukraine attacks his guys with their pitiful army or the West starts shooting, he will take that as a green light and proceed. Why wouldn't he? Ukraine is basically up for the grabing with no competent army and no military assistance from the West, and Putin has already shown signs that he's in it for the long haul (recently transferring securities from the US Fed while executing a naval blocking action in Lithuania). It's looking increasingly likely that Russian troops will enter Ukraine en masse. He also doesn't seem to want Ukraine to be split in multiple countries, so he will play for keeps.

Full scale invasion of Ukraine. Shock and awe. Staged as an internal self-defense action against the "fascists".

Probe on Moldova.

Make NATO squirm about the Baltics.
He already kind of owns Moldova since transneister is attached!

Yeah. I can't wait until Wolff Blitzer has to try to understand and explain all that.

I believe it will be useful for people to refresh their memories about the Soviet borders as Putin plays risk these coming days/weeks.

Ukraine conflict lounge - rastignac - 03-16-2014

Quote: (03-16-2014 10:41 AM)Mekorig Wrote:  

For once, i have to agree with jimukr104. Putin can conquest all, or half of Ukraine, but can not hold it, even the eastern side. There is alot of people that, while rusophones, will not like at all the prescence of russian troops.

And Russian troops might not want to be there if it gets hot.

That does not mean Putin won't try. For the reasons you cite, Ukraine may be his downfall.

Ukraine conflict lounge - Icarus - 03-16-2014

VICE News footage of Russian commandos storming the Moskva Hotel in Simferopol:






Ukraine conflict lounge - jimukr104 - 03-16-2014

Quote: (03-16-2014 07:48 PM)Mekorig Wrote:  

oh, who nice, jimukr104 give me a rep point! [Image: angel.gif]

My " so called" family in Ukraine is composed by the families of both my paternal and maternal grandparents (expect for my maternal grandparent, that was from near Lugo, in Galicia). Both side of the family are from the Ternopil Oblast, and some come to Argentine at the beginning of the 30`s. Then, in the 50`s, some of them (from my father side) come back to Ukraine, and were sended to Makiivka, to work on the coal and steel industries. My family in Argentina mantained contact with both sides of the family back in Ukraine, ties that were reinforced in 2001, when my parent went to the country to visit them. Since then we keep constant contact by mail and skype, and i personally keep a more direct contact with two of them via whatsup. i personally know little of ukranian, but my parents comunicate with them in ukranian and spanish (specially with my family in Makiivka). I do it generally in english and spanish. Their point of view are diverse, the ones who are in Ternopil are more pro-maidan, the ones in Makiivka took a more neutral stance (expect for one, the son of one of my father`s cousin, that got into a extreme pro-russian group).

My personal point of view is made in part of my owninterest in diplomatical relations info, and part on what they told me (the contact with them got almost dialy since the beggining on the Crimea crisis). Also, its my perosnal ideology, and my aversion to mafia-like figures like Putin.

In resume, i understand some of the things you say in your last post (i do not agree), but what i am trying to say to you is that you are trying to appear like the "leading" voice in the whole issue, attacking anyone who does not agree with you (aside of the other poster that doesnt agreed with you, remember the PM you send to me?), and that your own bias is showing (heck, you made a whole new thread about him!).
ok so basically you just admitted you are biased.. don't thank me for pointing that out.(family came from the west..NATIONALISTS. A whole different breed then the ones who are Russified.I think another member said you sounded like that Canadian Diaspora type.)
But some points:
1. I never attacked anyone. It wasn't me who was trolling anyone on the board was it?it wasn't me who was in that HEATED exchange the other night..don't confuse me.

2.How t do you assume I " think I know more than anyone else?". Again I state what I believe just like anyone else..so sue me for having more material linked. Then I guess Rag and Dave also are guilty of this?I think Dave actually might know more than me... and that Rag is great in finding "maps" and "studying history" lol. Credit where credit is due!
3.Now we get to the ROOT of it. You mentioned my Putin thread. I thought we already discussed that? it was meant as a thread to predict what the Russians would do. Because Some of US knew he would be doing something.Not to idealize him...in fact some of us was shocked at his silence.
4. He is less mafia than the whole cadre of Ukrainian politicians unfortunately. Name one leader there who isn't a billionaire either before or after!

Ukraine conflict lounge - jimukr104 - 03-16-2014

Quote: (03-16-2014 07:50 PM)rastignac Wrote:  

Quote: (03-16-2014 06:43 PM)Mekorig Wrote:  

Quote: (03-16-2014 10:46 AM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Quote: (03-16-2014 10:41 AM)Mekorig Wrote:  

For once, i have to agree with jimukr104. Putin can conquest all, or half of Ukraine, but can not hold it, even the eastern side. There is alot of people that, while rusophones, will not like at all the prescence of russian troops.

Are you implying that the rest of the time you don't agree with my good sense that MOST others who have actually Traveled and Been there seem to agreed with?
(Didn't know Argentinians read backwards [Image: banana.gif]).j/k

I warned you that you let your political bias get in your way of seeing others point of views and even reality. Don't beat yourself up over it..your NOT the only one who does that(western media is very guilty of this).

It really has all to do with military force numbers more than how the locals feel. When the US invaded Iraq we were also very short for occupation as well. But some key differences:
a. Most were cool with it in the beginning.
b. We paid over 250k of their military and police forces that disbanded to basically work for us.
c. Iraq had much less large cities that were of strategic importance to have to guard.
d. Russia bordering on Ukraine is a liability for Russia. Means even more areas they have to protect/guard.
e. Ukraine and Russia have more similar type technology/equipment(although Russia has some newer stuff)
Now if Russia formed a war economy like Germany did..sure, they can take Ukraine just like it was in the past taken.


Shesss jimukr104, get down of the high horse! You have your pro-putin (i would say russian, but you have a almost "fandom" fixation with Putin) PoV, and i have mine. Your opinion is influenced by your personal interactions with the country and the people you know there (your wife and her family). Mine is based on what i know, and what people of my own family told me, people both in the west and east part of Ukraine. As i already told you, we have our diferent PoV, so its your choice to stop showing yourself as the owner of the absolute truht about the while issue. Chill down.

I wish all the board members with skin in the game the best as things progress. I like others here have property, homes, extended families, investments in Ukraine.

Generally, there has been a preponderance of pro-Putin, Russian ultra-nationalist views on this board where babushka Soviet nostalgia is hardened by neo-liberal indigence about recent western interventionism. I have heard talk like some I the board in Ukraine: my girl's Ukrainian grandparents in their 80s. Everyone else I know (about 100 people I know socially and professionally) abhors Putin and what he is doing and fear the worst for their country, peppered with Ukrainian fatalism (remember their anthem is Ukraine has not yet perished).

Also, truth is out there if you use common sense and twitter. If you read Western press and RT for balance and end up confused, we'll put on your thinking cap and look at the facts in each case, Lies are lies. I would say the western press generally has its head up its ass and the Russian press has its head up Putin's ass, engaging in the largest propaganda war of the 21st century.

Back to my war mitigation planning....
Yes..we agree most don't want him involved and would like Ukraine to settle its own problems without an army threatening to occupy.He loss much support by his occupation..but if his goal was to get Crimea and create destabilize UA..he certainly succeeded.
But again in the geopolitical arena Ukraine is just a pawn of the Great game and Russia is actually responding just like any great regional power responds when they are confronted with such problems.
What I find interesting is that Obama really didn't have advisers who studied history and understood what was at stake?

Ukraine conflict lounge - Mekorig - 03-16-2014

Whatever men, i give up. My NATIONALISTIC family (yeah, haha, the ones in Makiivka have trouble speaking a clear ukranian, the other in Ternopil are left wing most of them) will keep me informed. You keep mentally masturbating about Putin and dividing the Ukraine, whatever ring your bell. Just keep flaunting your Rep Points like the forum is like some kind of contest (remember the same PM?).

I am officially out of this part of the forum.

Ukraine conflict lounge - Big Nilla - 03-16-2014

Come on guys. We don't need more of Hencredible's "confident talk" here. Let's keep it civil.

This is a fascinating situation happening... possibly historic and world-changing. There really won't be any winners here... at least among ordinary people (including Americans).

Ukraine conflict lounge - jimukr104 - 03-16-2014

Quote: (03-16-2014 08:17 PM)Mekorig Wrote:  

Whatever men, i give up. My NATIONALISTIC family (yeah, haha, the ones in Makiivka have trouble speaking a clear ukranian, the other in Ternopil are left wing most of them) will keep me informed. You keep mentally masturbating about Putin and dividing the Ukraine, whatever ring your bell. Just keep flaunting your Rep Points like the forum is like some kind of contest (remember the same PM?).

I am officially out of this part of the forum.

promises ..promises lol
Again you say Putin more than I do..
The Ukraine is divided(every slavic expert in the world keeps trying to remind the media of this?)..I didn't do that!
It has been divided for a long time but they can live with each other..only seems to be a problem of whom controls the gov't.

I know where Makiivka Is...but you said they came from the west(Trnopol)..that means there culture already had UKRAINIAN influence more than Russian. My wife was living in Lviv as a child but since her family was military(KGB) and from the East she kept her Russian culture. It takes time to assimilate.

Ukraine conflict lounge - jimukr104 - 03-16-2014

Interesting article.....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/w...story.html

Ukraine conflict lounge - Blunt - 03-16-2014

I like posting in this thread and the other threads before this because it is fun and interesting to try and analyze and predict how this whole situation will play out. This is especially true for those of us who have or had ties to Ukraine.

It is important not to forget that we are all completely powerless in this situation so there is no point in getting upset.

I have actually considered several times cutting myself off of news about this situation (and in general), but then something big happens and I get sucked back in.

For the sake of Ukrainians, Crimeans, Russians, and people like me who have wasted inordinate amounts of time following these events, hopefully this will all peacefully settle down soon via a compromise satisfactory to the three interested parties.

Ukraine conflict lounge - jimukr104 - 03-16-2014

Quote: (03-16-2014 10:58 PM)Blunt Wrote:  

I like posting in this thread and the other threads before this because it is fun and interesting to try and analyze and predict how this whole situation will play out. This is especially true for those of us who have or had ties to Ukraine.

It is important not to forget that we are all completely powerless in this situation so there is no point in getting upset.

I have actually considered several times cutting myself off of news about this situation (and in general), but then something big happens and I get sucked back in.

For the sake of Ukrainians, Crimeans, Russians, and people like me who have wasted inordinate amounts of time following these events, hopefully this will all peacefully settle down soon via a compromise satisfactory to the three interested parties.
Agreed..the real victims are the Ukrainians themselves. The country is in the midst of a power struggle and the real solution at this point is to just all get a long.
Sanctions and all that nonsense won't help anyone...since Ukraine needs trade with Russia. It will also make them lash out more.
Russia taking more territory is pretty stupid...they have more than they need.They also might end up with a logistical disaster.

Ukraine conflict lounge - Tex Pro - 03-17-2014

The propaganda war is getting a bit extreme in Russia:

Russian TV host: Russia is the only country with capability to turn U.S. into ‘radioactive ashes’

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worl...ive-ashes/






Edit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Hand_(nuclear_war)

Ukraine conflict lounge - Handsome Creepy Eel - 03-17-2014

Is there any actual indication that Putin is going to invade something outside Crimea? I just don't see why he would do it. Right now, he is in a great position, sitting down in a locked-down Crimea and letting the western hypocrisy break against him as he manages the new territory with worldwide acclaim and without a single loss of life. If he invades the rest of Crimea, all that he has done so far unravel. It wouldn't make sense.

Ukraine conflict lounge - Don Juan Tenorio - 03-17-2014

Quote: (03-17-2014 07:13 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Is there any actual indication that Putin is going to invade something outside Crimea? I just don't see why he would do it. Right now, he is in a great position, sitting down in a locked-down Crimea and letting the western hypocrisy break against him as he manages the new territory with worldwide acclaim and without a single loss of life. If he invades the rest of Crimea, all that he has done so far unravel. It wouldn't make sense.

Brand new attorney general of Russian Crimea:

[Image: 0_e1f9a_e01f7dd5_XL.jpg]

[Image: poklonskaya_03.jpg]

[Image: 0_e1f99_71935372_XL.jpg]

[Image: BiuogbECIAAAgbY.jpg]

[Image: 9f7aef80%5B1%5D.gif]

Ukraine conflict lounge - Vicious - 03-17-2014

Congratulations to Putin for a well-run campaign. In Jan 2013, 1% of Crimeans said Russia was their homeland. Now 96.6%.

His way of making 123% of all voters get to the poll is also commendable.
https://twitter.com/MaximEristavi/status...2137412608

Ukraine conflict lounge - Icarus - 03-17-2014

Quote: (03-17-2014 11:49 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

In Jan 2013, 1% of Crimeans said Russia was their homeland. Now 96.6%.

I find it very hard to believe those figures when everyone knows that well over 1% of Crimean citizens are ethnic Russians.

Ukraine conflict lounge - jimukr104 - 03-17-2014

Quote: (03-17-2014 11:59 AM)Icarus Wrote:  

Quote: (03-17-2014 11:49 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

In Jan 2013, 1% of Crimeans said Russia was their homeland. Now 96.6%.

I find it very hard to believe those figures when everyone knows that well over 1% of Crimean citizens are ethnic Russians.

Doesn't really matter polls in 2012 showed only 1 out of 6 eastern-southern Ukrainians wanted closer western ties and 50% of western Ukrainians... hardly a majority. But it seems that isn't going to stop a non elected gov't from signing a trade pact without a referendum or even go by all the polls taken.
But hey democracy is dying in Europe I hear...Italy hasn't had an elected leader since 2008.They are becoming Americanized!(dems &Rep..same crap basically)


I re read:


Quote:Quote:

Under the logic of Washington’s UN resolution, large parts of Ukraine are not legitimately part of Ukraine. They have remained parts of Russia, because Russians were not allowed to vote on their transfer to Ukraine. Thus, there is no issue about “Russia annexing Crimea,” because, according to Washington’s logic, Crimea is still a part of Russia.