Venezuela is collapsing - Printable Version

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Venezuela is collapsing - Traktor - 10-25-2016

Quote: (10-25-2016 02:20 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

Quote: (10-25-2016 12:17 PM)Traktor Wrote:  

The Right's record in LA is far from stellar and a million times worse than anything the Left has managed.

Nope, that's just your far left bias showing. Show us an example of the Right in Latin America having done a million times worse than the Left.

Here's a start - http://www.globalresearch.ca/terrorism-w...ds/5317564

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Venezuela is collapsing - Vinny - 10-25-2016

Venezuelan parliament votes to begin impeachment proceedings against President Nicolas Maduro

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/...dings-aga/

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Venezuela is collapsing - Going strong - 10-25-2016

Quote: (10-25-2016 07:51 PM)Vinny Wrote:  

Venezuelan parliament votes to begin impeachment proceedings against President Nicolas Maduro

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/...dings-aga/

And to try to survive and live another (dictatorial) day, Maduro went to see not-the-true-pope, not-Benedikt Bergoglio, his new marxist pal.

And of course, Bergoglio (formerly in good terms with the Argentinean right-wing generals -he used to phone them "wanting to talk about his bad leftist Jesuit friends" -, formerly fiercely anti-K, but suddenly -blackmailed?- turned extreme-Left activist) is trying to save him, asking for "a dialogue inclusive of Maduro"...

Meeting with the Caribbean Hitler:


Meanwhile, thousands of Catholics are starved and tortured in Venezuelan jails...

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Venezuela is collapsing - Phoenix - 10-25-2016

It's comical to suggest that death squads targeting anti-social forces is "a million times worse" than those anti-social forces prevailing (as they have in Venezuela). Again, this is just bias showing.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Going strong - 10-25-2016

Quote: (10-25-2016 12:17 PM)Traktor Wrote:  

However thankfully, we still have guys like Evo Morales who unlike the corrupt kleptocrats, puts his people's interest first. He is also aligning Bolivia towards Russia so a US under Killary will make Bolivia a prime target for regime change.

In 2013, he told Obama to get fucked - http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-22371275

Much respect!

"Evo Morales ... puts his people's interest first":

Well, we just want leaders of Western European countries to do the same: Put native Europeans' interest first... Notice how the Global Left protects natives in South Am, but oppresses and destroys natives in Western Europe.

(Side note: by the way, Evo is a mestizo, a dignified Aymara with European blood, as made obvious by his height, and revealed publicly by the Peruvian literature Nobel prize)

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Venezuela is collapsing - Mekorig - 10-26-2016

@Traktor: Do you even know a little about Bolivia? Evo is an indigenist lefty in the words, but he is quite the capitalist in the actions. But dont worry, Hitlery would not have to do anything to get Evo from power, his own people (the natives) will do it. He is facing quite the problems with the Aymaras in the altiplano because he is not "indian" and "left" enough for them, with the miners, etc. Funny , the criollo elites in Santa Cruz de la Sierra have made a type of "peace treaty" with him, and they keep their usuall fief down there in the plains.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Traktor - 10-29-2016

Quote: (10-26-2016 11:31 AM)Mekorig Wrote:  

@Traktor: Do you even know a little about Bolivia? Evo is an indigenist lefty in the words, but he is quite the capitalist in the actions. But dont worry, Hitlery would not have to do anything to get Evo from power, his own people (the natives) will do it. He is facing quite the problems with the Aymaras in the altiplano because he is not "indian" and "left" enough for them, with the miners, etc. Funny , the criollo elites in Santa Cruz de la Sierra have made a type of "peace treaty" with him, and they keep their usuall fief down there in the plains.

He is a shrewd operator who picks his battles wisely. However since he is barred from running again in 2019, Bolivia will stay alligned to Russia as the ruling party has enough support to elect a successor. Let's keep it that way.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Traktor - 10-29-2016

Quote: (10-25-2016 10:25 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

Well, we just want leaders of Western European countries to do the same: Put native Europeans' interest first... Notice how the Global Left protects natives in South Am, but oppresses and destroys natives in Western Europe.

(Side note: by the way, Evo is a mestizo, a dignified Aymara with European blood, as made obvious by his height, and revealed publicly by the Peruvian literature Nobel prize)

What I find maddening is that the degenerate Left-Libtards in the West daily condemn their fellow Leftists spearheading the fight against Western backed Islamists in Syria.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Going strong - 10-29-2016

Quote: (10-29-2016 03:17 AM)Traktor Wrote:  

Quote: (10-26-2016 11:31 AM)Mekorig Wrote:  

@Traktor: Do you even know a little about Bolivia? Evo is an indigenist lefty in the words, but he is quite the capitalist in the actions. But dont worry, Hitlery would not have to do anything to get Evo from power, his own people (the natives) will do it. He is facing quite the problems with the Aymaras in the altiplano because he is not "indian" and "left" enough for them, with the miners, etc. Funny , the criollo elites in Santa Cruz de la Sierra have made a type of "peace treaty" with him, and they keep their usuall fief down there in the plains.

He is a shrewd operator who picks his battles wisely. However since he is barred from running again in 2019, Bolivia will stay aligned to Russia as the ruling party has enough support to elect a successor. Let's keep it that way.

since he is barred from running again in 2019: have you been closely following Bolivia's politics (and changes in Constitution), my friend? Evo will change the Constitution once again, on the fly and when needed. Evo has not the religious respect for Constitution that, for example, V. Putin has.

But he indeed is a shrewd operator (for example, he made peace with Macri thirty seconds after CFK was defeated ), granted, also a quite good and passionate football player by the way.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Paracelsus - 10-31-2016

Venezuela's currency has hit Zimbabwe levels:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-31...ion-builds

Quote:Quote:

Having thrown in the towel on hyperinflation by printing banknotes with 200-times-higher denominations, Bloomberg reports that things in Venezuela have continued to get worse with the currency now so devalued (with even simple purchases requiring so many bills) that instead of counting bills, they are weighing them.

Once one of the world’s strongest currencies, the bolivar has been reduced to a nuisance. Basic purchases require hundreds of bills. Shoppers shove piles of them into gym bags before venturing into crime-plagued streets and shopkeepers stash thousands in boxes and overflowing drawers. In the absence of official data, economists are left to guess what the inflation rate is. Estimates for this year range from 200 percent to 1,500 percent.

At a delicatessen counter in eastern Caracas, Humberto Gonzalez removes slices of salty white cheese from his scale and replaces them with a stack of bolivar notes handed over by his customer.

“It’s sad," Gonzalez says. "At this point, I think the cheese is worth more.”

Bloomberg continues...

Quote:Quote:

It’s also one of the clearest signs yet that hyperinflation could be taking hold in a country that refuses to publish consumer-price data on a regular basis. Cash-weighing isn’t seen everywhere but is increasing, echoing scenes from some of the past century’s most-chaotic hyperinflation episodes: Post-World War I Germany, Yugoslavia in the 1990s and Zimbabwe a decade ago.

“When they start weighing cash, it’s a sign of runaway inflation,” said Jesus Casique, financial director of Capital Market Finance, a consulting firm. “But Venezuelans don’t know just how bad it is because the government refuses to publish figures.”

Meanwhile, as we concluded previously, the central bank remains stuck in denial and hasn’t published price statistics for almost two years. Instead, Mr. Maduro has blamed the skyrocketing prices on the “economic war” waged against his government by shopkeepers and financiers. This has forced people to brave one of the world’s highest crime rates by shopping with backpacks full of cash and spend hours lining up outside ATMs, which give out less than $10 per withdrawal. Many provincial banks have reduced daily withdrawals to 30,000 bolivars, which would buy a Venezuelan couple a lunch at a mid-scale restaurant.

Amusingly, as we reported last year, the high demand for nearly worthless currency notes has also presented a financial burden for the cash-strapped government, which also lacks raw materials to print its own money. Since last year, Venezuela has had to pay hundreds of millions of dollars to printing companies to feed its economy with bolivar currency. The shipments arrived to Venezuela from private printing presses around the world on several dozen windowless Boeing 747 jets. Given the crime risks, the air shipments arrive at the Caracas airport at night before the notes are loaded onto armored trucks and transported to the central bank vaults in Caracas, protected on the 18-mile route by soldiers.

Indicatively, a fully stocked ATM is emptied in just three and a half hours on average now, according to the Venezuelan Banking Association.

The good news for the insolvent nation is that all local denominated debts are now just as worthless as the currency, which incidentally is what the BOJ's Kuroda would call: mission accomplished.

Sadly, Venezuela is the canary in the coalmine for what will happen to all currencies in a world where there is now simply too much debt.

Bloomberg continues...

It’s also one of the clearest signs yet that hyperinflation could be taking hold in a country that refuses to publish consumer-price data on a regular basis. Cash-weighing isn’t seen everywhere but is increasing, echoing scenes from some of the past century’s most-chaotic hyperinflation episodes: Post-World War I Germany, Yugoslavia in the 1990s and Zimbabwe a decade ago.

“When they start weighing cash, it’s a sign of runaway inflation,” said Jesus Casique, financial director of Capital Market Finance, a consulting firm. “But Venezuelans don’t know just how bad it is because the government refuses to publish figures.”

Meanwhile, as we concluded previously, the central bank remains stuck in denial and hasn’t published price statistics for almost two years. Instead, Mr. Maduro has blamed the skyrocketing prices on the “economic war” waged against his government by shopkeepers and financiers. This has forced people to brave one of the world’s highest crime rates by shopping with backpacks full of cash and spend hours lining up outside ATMs, which give out less than $10 per withdrawal. Many provincial banks have reduced daily withdrawals to 30,000 bolivars, which would buy a Venezuelan couple a lunch at a mid-scale restaurant.

Amusingly, as we reported last year, the high demand for nearly worthless currency notes has also presented a financial burden for the cash-strapped government, which also lacks raw materials to print its own money. Since last year, Venezuela has had to pay hundreds of millions of dollars to printing companies to feed its economy with bolivar currency. The shipments arrived to Venezuela from private printing presses around the world on several dozen windowless Boeing 747 jets. Given the crime risks, the air shipments arrive at the Caracas airport at night before the notes are loaded onto armored trucks and transported to the central bank vaults in Caracas, protected on the 18-mile route by soldiers.

Indicatively, a fully stocked ATM is emptied in just three and a half hours on average now, according to the Venezuelan Banking Association.

Quote:Quote:

The good news for the insolvent nation is that all local denominated debts are now just as worthless as the currency, which incidentally is what the BOJ's Kuroda would call: mission accomplished.

Sadly, Venezuela is the canary in the coalmine for what will happen to all currencies in a world where there is now simply too much debt.

Note the following salient features of the Venezuelan situation:

1. Currency so worthless its value rests in some physical aspect of the mode itself (i.e. weighing the notes.) That is a frequent feature of hyperinflation; also see determining how much bread you can buy by the amount of bread your shit dollar physically covers.

2. Blaming the private sector for the price rises: " Instead, Mr. Maduro has blamed the skyrocketing prices on the “economic war” waged against his government by shopkeepers and financiers." This, too, happens in every instance of hyperinflation, because hyperinflation is always the same: governments printing too much money to get out of their debts, thus hideously devaluing the dollar, which has an immediate consequence in sellers having to raise their prices so not to lose money in real terms.

3. Government suppressing data on real inflation rates: also present in every instance of hyperinflation, simply because hyperinflation only lasts as long as people are stupid enough en masse to accept the shit currency that's being passed to them. If you know your money is worth nothing, you stop using it. (Never mind that in a hyperinflationary environment, the inflation rate is basically impossible to calculate, hence why anyone with a brain stops lending money to anyone else.)

4. Government using inflation as a way to relieve itself of its debts: note the last quote from the article, that all locally denominated debt (i.e. any debt that was expressed in Venezuelan bolivars) in Venezuela is worth precisely fuck all. That would include any debts the government was holding towards its own citizens ... which is the primary reason governments resort to hyperinflation in the first place.

There is no "maybe" about this. Venezuela is in a hyperinflationary state. It's surprising how closely it holds to the historically observed factors that happen on hyperinflation.

Only positives: if you can keep your money secure down there, tourists to Venezuela make out like bandits and in many cases will receive far, far better treatment than the locals receive. The reason being that as a tourist you'll likely be carrying some currency other than the local toilet paper, and therefore the locals will be desperate for your business.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Cattle Rustler - 10-31-2016

The only way I'd rate a country like this would be:

Are the fine bitches desperate enough that I can get laid with minimal effort?
Will they throw themselves at me in hopes that I'll get them a BigMac?

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Venezuela is collapsing - Dr. Dan Dungus - 11-10-2016

Bump. I would like to know this. Also, how are you going to game women if you are constantly worried about being robbed/killed and people are running out of food? I would imagine people don't go out much. Do they have Twitter? Also how do you exchange dollars?

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Venezuela is collapsing - infowarrior1 - 11-13-2016

Everytime communism is truly implemented it ends up imploding. Only when they compromise with Capitalism in some way by allowing private property,sound currency and free markets as well as minimal regulations do they start to survive or even thrive just like China has done under Deng Xiaoping and North Korea is currently starting to do with their Jangmangdang.

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Venezuela is collapsing - britchard - 11-13-2016

Quote: (11-13-2016 12:19 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  

Everytime communism is truly implemented it ends up imploding. Only when they compromise with Capitalism in some way by allowing private property,sound currency and free markets as well as minimal regulations do they start to survive or even thrive just like China has done under Deng Xiaoping and North Korea is currently starting to do with their Jangmangdang.

Precisely. Which is why I face-palm every time a leftie tries to say socialism is a good idea by giving China as an example. Economically, China is barely even socialist let alone communist. And the only area that China succeeds in is economics, many blind eyes are turned to its censorship and numerous human right's abuses.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Off The Reservation - 11-17-2016

Word today from VZ is that 1 USD = 2500 BsF, marching towards 3000. Thats more than even dolartoday.com is reporting at 1952/1.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Off The Reservation - 12-01-2016

1 USD = 4587 BsF today

https://dolartoday.com

Lost half its value in two weeks.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Cattle Rustler - 12-01-2016

When can we go in and sweep the RE market?

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Venezuela is collapsing - tomtud - 12-01-2016

Only risk the money that you can afford to lose. It's possible that they expropriate foreign owned units in the future.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Wayout - 12-01-2016

Quote: (10-31-2016 08:29 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

The only way I'd rate a country like this would be:

Are the fine bitches desperate enough that I can get laid with minimal effort?
Will they throw themselves at me in hopes that I'll get them a BigMac?

Exactly! And the answer is no! As to why...well that is a much longer discussion. But in a nutshell - they have not been poor for long and their mentality hasn't changed yet. Let's pretend we can make all Americans poor - would the fine bitches star throwing themselves at you right away? No! Also ,many good looking women left the country. You really gotta experience Venezuelan society to understand what is going on there! You have better chances in Colombia or Brazil .

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Venezuela is collapsing - kazz - 12-02-2016

I have a mate that just recently finished up living a year in Venezuala. I talked to him at length if you guys have any questions on what its like on the ground there feel free to ask.

Basically he said that just before he left things were getting worse, when they were already bad, no surprises there. Though he did have a great time there. Lived like a king on nothing. And there are many places that are safe, even now.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Isaac Jordan - 12-02-2016

Cross-posted from the Bitcoin thread...a fascinating look into how the cryptocurrency is helping Venezuelans deal with the hardships of their failed socialist state:

The Secret, Dangerous World of Venezuelan Bitcoin Mining

Quote:Quote:

Four years ago, Alberto's career prospects were bleak. The 23-year-old Venezuelan had just graduated from college with a degree in computer science, but his nation's economy was already shredded by 13 years of socialism.

"There were job opportunities, but they paid like $20 a month, and we were used to traveling and buying things from abroad so we couldn't settle for that," his friend Luis recalls. Alberto and Luis—whose names have been changed for their own safety—teamed up to start a clothing business, but the venture floundered.

Then Alberto discovered bitcoin mining.

He read about it on an Argentinian gaming forum. An item posted to the site described a process of getting paid in a new internet-based currency denominated in strings of numbers and letters, in exchange for running computations on a home computer. His parents said that the whole thing sounded like a Ponzi scheme. Alberto, however, sensed that his life was about to change.

Four years later, his country is embroiled in a humanitarian crisis. The supermarket shelves are bare. Children are fainting from hunger in their classrooms. A mob recently broke into the Caracas zoo to eat a horse. Many Venezuelans subsist on a monthly government stipend equivalent to about $9.

Alberto, meanwhile, based on his own account, is earning more than $1,200 a day mining bitcoins and other cryptocurrencies.

He's part of Venezuela's rapidly growing digital currency mining community. Faced with growing threats of violent crime and government extortion, its members interface through secret online groups and take extreme precautions to hide their activities.

In a country where cash has lost much of its value, and food and other necessities are dangerously scarce, bitcoins are providing many Venezuelans with a lifeline. The same socialist economics that caused the country's meltdown has made the energy-intensive process of bitcoin mining wildly profitable—but also dangerous.

There's much more at the link, quite the interesting read.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Simeon_Strangelight - 12-02-2016

Actually Bitcoin is no viable option due to it being more like a commodity.

But Venezuela could in theory replace their own currency by a new locally printed interest-free one. Though this would make it necessary for some companies and thousands of people to participate in it fast.

However I presume that the government would step in quickly and shut it down fast even if it were successful:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/alternative-...1439458241

Alternative currencies are not that difficult to set up, but necessitate a high-trust disciplined society. Greece can pull it off and Bavaria and Switzerland do it for decades already, but a communist Venezuela and their rather less disciplined lower IQ people?

Also as mentioned - the communist regime would come down hard on it.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Isaac Jordan - 12-02-2016

Quote: (12-02-2016 12:26 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Actually Bitcoin is no viable option due to it being more like a commodity.

Did you even read the article? Bitcoin activity in Venezuela is reaching record highs, and for good reason:



-Consumers are using it to purchase badly-needed goods (like food and medicine) online when local shelves are bare and hospitals empty

-Businesses and consumers alike are retaining (even gaining) value while the native currency rapidly depreciates

-The average citizen no longer needs to risk exposure to the black/criminal market in order to acquire goods or exchange currencies (bypassing the government's stringent capital controls)

-Job opportunities are created/retained, while access to the global economy remains open

Seems to me like we've already passed "viable" and are well on our way to "optimal".

Quote:Quote:

But Venezuela could in theory replace their own currency by a new locally printed interest-free one. Though this would make it necessary for some companies and thousands of people to participate in it fast.

Why go through the trouble of trying to create your own new currency when you already have access to one that's

1) decentralized,
2) inflation-proof,
3) easily transmitted to and from anyone with a smart phone or computer,
4) and has been successfully used by millions of people over the better part of the last decade?

Why reinvent the wheel when someone just handed you the keys to a car?

Quote:Quote:

However I presume that the government would step in quickly and shut it down fast even if it were successful

It's already successful.

The government has shown itself to be hostile to bitcoin, yes. But right now they can barely feed their citizens or keep the power on. They simply don't have the resources to monitor hundreds of thousands of people or the millions of dollars' worth of bitcoin folks are sending in and out of the country.

They'd have to shut down the internet entirely in order to stop it-a possibility, surely, but Venezuelans will cross that bridge if and when they come to it. In the meantime, the free market will continue to work its magic in promoting the best solution to a series of dire problems.

Quote:Quote:

Alternative currencies are not that difficult to set up, but necessitate a high-trust disciplined society. Greece can pull it off and Bavaria and Switzerland do it for decades already, but a communist Venezuela and their rather less disciplined lower IQ people?

If only we had a system in which users needn't rely on the trustworthiness of others in order to facilitate stable and secure value exchange...

Oh, wait. We already do. It's called Bitcoin.

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Venezuela is collapsing - Simeon_Strangelight - 12-02-2016

I am not saying to not use Bitcoin, but it is limited for a variety of reasons. It is much better than the local crap, but the difference between a Swiss WIR or Bavarian Chiemgauer currency is massive:

https://realcurrencies.wordpress.com/201...ut-flawed/

I am not disputing your arguments - use Bitcoin, but work on creating something that can actually replace their own and truly boost the economy.

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Venezuela is collapsing - booshala - 12-02-2016

What a crazy case study of bitcoin to bolivar arbitrage... great link, IsaacJordan. It's incredible how resourceful people are when it comes to survival. I'm not a fan of zerohedge, but I was fascinated by their article on currency arbitrage in Venezuela: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-06...-1-175000.

Of course, the scenario they present isn't viable in a real world context, but it's indicative how crazy it is there when BTC - which I'd normally consider very volatile - is keeping people alive.

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