[The_CEO]

(01-30-2012 05:08 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

(01-30-2012 03:25 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(01-30-2012 03:17 PM)Brian Wrote:  

I think Romney is going to win and surprise a lot of people. He may not be the fantastic speechgiver and campaigner Obama is but look at his past record of success. Throw out all the BS thats spewed on the campaign trail, most of it is just nonsense. Obama promised everything and has failed to deliver on alot of stuff. When Romney gets in charge he's going to run the government more like a business, and be more proactive in encouraging private business and eliminating wasteful spending and cutting back on entitlements. Thats what the US needs more then anything at this point and based on their previous performances I think Romney is going to rise to the occasion.

The government is not a business.

The government is not a business.

Exactly, the gov't is not a business, and has no business in business. A guy that has rescued businesses understands this.

I like the other posters's comment. Who would you rather invest your money for you? A guy who's made a shit load of money making sound business decisions over an extended period of time. Or a guy that's a community organizer and consistently made boned headed investments like solyndra?

Honestly, how can you guys even defend these decisions and say "Give him four more years"?

He hasn't delivered on ANYTHING, in fact things seem a lot worse than they were to me.

A few posts back you were saying that conservatives CONSERVE. Forests etc. Who do you think does that? The government? A logging company?

[Brian]

G - What are your biggest issues w/the Bush Presidency? Just curious

[The_CEO]

(01-29-2012 02:11 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Why Do Republicans Hate This?



But like this?



Seriously, I don't get it?

Please explain.

Wait.. You mean how the Affordable Healthcare Act ("Obamacare") is actually modeled on Romney-care - the health care plan that works well in Massachusetts?

Or how the most hated part of O-care is the "mandate", something pushed by Gingrich and conservatives in the 90's?

[thegmanifesto]

(01-30-2012 05:35 PM)Brian Wrote:  

G - What are your biggest issues w/the Bush Presidency? Just curious

Spending
National Debt
Wars
American troops dying for no reason
Not catching Bin Laden
Ruining our image throughout the world
9/11, failing to act on warning signs
Patriot Act
Invaded Iraq
Using Fear to control the population
"Mission Accomplished"
Destruction of the middle class
Financial Crash
Supreme Court
Poor environmental record
Bailouts
Handling of Katrina
Oil Prices
Food Prices
Lying
Being a Pro-War chickenhawk coward
Being the greatest all around f*ck head in history

Just off the top of my head. (I am kind of surprised how easily I was able to bust out that list. Well, maybe not that surprised).

Other than that, he was phenomenal. Especially the fact that he couldn't speak properly. I thought that was great.

And the fact that he acted like a stupid hick. That was smooth too.

Why are you so in love with George Bush?

Just curious.

[Duke Castile]

(01-30-2012 05:29 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  

(01-30-2012 05:08 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

(01-30-2012 03:25 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(01-30-2012 03:17 PM)Brian Wrote:  

I think Romney is going to win and surprise a lot of people. He may not be the fantastic speechgiver and campaigner Obama is but look at his past record of success. Throw out all the BS thats spewed on the campaign trail, most of it is just nonsense. Obama promised everything and has failed to deliver on alot of stuff. When Romney gets in charge he's going to run the government more like a business, and be more proactive in encouraging private business and eliminating wasteful spending and cutting back on entitlements. Thats what the US needs more then anything at this point and based on their previous performances I think Romney is going to rise to the occasion.

The government is not a business.

The government is not a business.

Exactly, the gov't is not a business, and has no business in business. A guy that has rescued businesses understands this.

I like the other posters's comment. Who would you rather invest your money for you? A guy who's made a shit load of money making sound business decisions over an extended period of time. Or a guy that's a community organizer and consistently made boned headed investments like solyndra?

Honestly, how can you guys even defend these decisions and say "Give him four more years"?

He hasn't delivered on ANYTHING, in fact things seem a lot worse than they were to me.

A few posts back you were saying that conservatives CONSERVE. Forests etc. Who do you think does that? The government? A logging company?

I was defining the ideology. And the people are the ones that are supposed to be governing themselves. I'm not sure how you can say you're against something if you're ignorant of what that something is.

Anyway, conservation has nothing to do with a race of people. This conversation has moved on from that topic. But as I said, citizens who believe gov't should be as small as functionally possible are the ones who conserves gov't.

[Duke Castile]

Gman, no offense but aside from one or 2 entries there, your list reads like Obama's.

[thegmanifesto]

(01-30-2012 06:44 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

Gman, no offense but aside from one or 2 entries there, your list reads like Obama's.

None taken.

I don't like Obama either.

It is more than two though.

These wouldn't apply to Obama:

Not catching Bin Laden
Ruining our image throughout the world
9/11, failing to act on warning signs
Patriot Act
Using Fear to control the population
"Mission Accomplished"
Financial Crash
Supreme Court
Poor environmental record
Handling of Katrina
Being the greatest all around f*ck head in history

He did sign the John McCain architected National Defense Authorization Act though.

Just saw Jim Rodgers on Kudlow. He says:

"What is the difference between Romney and Obama? Romney is from Boston and Obama is from Chicago."

[Brian]

Because I dont think the majority of the things on that list are Bush's fault.

Spending - he didnt reign it in but it took off when Democrats got control of the Congress. All spending bills originate in Congress
National Debt - see above
Wars - they went on too long but we invaded Afghanistan because they attacked us on 9/11. What was he supposed to do? Pretend like nothing happened? And he invaded Iraq because per UN Resolution 1441 they were supposed to let Weapons Inspectors in to the country, and Saddam wouldnt. This should have been the UN's jurisdiction but they didnt do anything. Given the information available at the time its hard to second guess this.
American troops dying for no reason - see above
Not catching Bin Laden - wtf is he supposed to do? go hunt the guy himself? he committed resources to do it. this was a failure of the millitary if anyone.

Ruining our image throughout the world - media perception
9/11, failing to act on warning signs - this is Clinton more then anyone. He got inaugurated in 1/2011. less then 9 months later the attack happened. Failure of the intelligence agencies and previous administration. Clinton could have taken OBL out but failed.
Patriot Act - not that big a deal in my mind
Invaded Iraq - again, he acted on the failure of the UN to enforce its own rules and given the evidence presented at the time (that they had or were acquiring weapons) its hard to second guess that decision

Using Fear to control the population - fear that we might be attacked? thats not fear, thats realistic
"Mission Accomplished" - stupid phrase
Destruction of the middle class - more Congress then President
Financial Crash - same thing
Supreme Court - ??
Poor environmental record - how so, by driling?
Bailouts - agreed
Handling of Katrina - FEMA dropped the ball here. And the locals shooting at people trying to rescue them and acting like savages didnt help. And Mayor Nagin dropped the ball big time.
Oil Prices Gas was a lot cheaper when he was President
Food Prices - that didnt start to happen until after he left
Lying - BS
Being a Pro-War chickenhawk coward - nat'l defense
Being the greatest all around f*ck head in history - I'd nominate Pelosi, Dodd, Waters, Frank, or Obama ahead of him any day.

The world was a different place before 9/11. A lot of people tend to forget that. I'm as anti war as anyone, and I could care less if Iraq and Iran and Afghanistan all blew each other off the map, but given the circumstances after 9/11 he made the decision that he thought was best for the country at that time.

[thegmanifesto]

(01-30-2012 07:18 PM)Brian Wrote:  

Because I dont think the majority of the things on that list are Bush's fault.

Spending - he didnt reign it in but it took off when Democrats got control of the Congress. All spending bills originate in Congress
National Debt - see above
Wars - they went on too long but we invaded Afghanistan because they attacked us on 9/11. What was he supposed to do? Pretend like nothing happened? And he invaded Iraq because per UN Resolution 1441 they were supposed to let Weapons Inspectors in to the country, and Saddam wouldnt. This should have been the UN's jurisdiction but they didnt do anything. Given the information available at the time its hard to second guess this.
American troops dying for no reason - see above
Not catching Bin Laden - wtf is he supposed to do? go hunt the guy himself? he committed resources to do it. this was a failure of the millitary if anyone.

Ruining our image throughout the world - media perception
9/11, failing to act on warning signs - this is Clinton more then anyone. He got inaugurated in 1/2011. less then 9 months later the attack happened. Failure of the intelligence agencies and previous administration. Clinton could have taken OBL out but failed.
Patriot Act - not that big a deal in my mind
Invaded Iraq - again, he acted on the failure of the UN to enforce its own rules and given the evidence presented at the time (that they had or were acquiring weapons) its hard to second guess that decision

Using Fear to control the population - fear that we might be attacked? thats not fear, thats realistic
"Mission Accomplished" - stupid phrase
Destruction of the middle class - more Congress then President
Financial Crash - same thing
Supreme Court - ??
Poor environmental record - how so, by driling?
Bailouts - agreed
Handling of Katrina - FEMA dropped the ball here. And the locals shooting at people trying to rescue them and acting like savages didnt help. And Mayor Nagin dropped the ball big time.
Oil Prices Gas was a lot cheaper when he was President
Food Prices - that didnt start to happen until after he left
Lying - BS
Being a Pro-War chickenhawk coward - nat'l defense
Being the greatest all around f*ck head in history - I'd nominate Pelosi, Dodd, Waters, Frank, or Obama ahead of him any day.

The world was a different place before 9/11. A lot of people tend to forget that. I'm as anti war as anyone, and I could care less if Iraq and Iran and Afghanistan all blew each other off the map, but given the circumstances after 9/11 he made the decision that he thought was best for the country at that time.

Alright, so anything that happened under Bush is not his fault

But anything that happened under Obama is only his fault.

I am glad we clairified your position so no one will take you seriously anymore.

There are so many errors in your response, I won't pick them apart one by one.

Quote:

Oil Prices Gas was a lot cheaper when he was President

Flat out lie. Check some commodity charts. If you are going to make up lies to make your position, we aren't having an intelligent discussion.

Quote:

Ruining our image throughout the world - media perception

Only someone that didn't travel significantly before Bush and after Bush would make a statement like this.

Quote:

Patriot Act - not that big a deal in my mind

You are out of your mind.

[Brian]

Pinning things that happened on or because of 9/11 and blaming them on Bush is just reaching. The wheels for that attack were in motion long before he took over. I thought you were smart enough to tune out the mindless liberal media eager to point the finger but obviously I was wrong.

[Tuthmosis]

(01-30-2012 07:43 PM)Brian Wrote:  

Pinning things that happened on or because of 9/11 and blaming them on Bush is just reaching. The wheels for that attack were in motion long before he took over. I thought you were smart enough to tune out the mindless liberal media eager to point the finger but obviously I was wrong.

The media isn't liberal at all. This is a talking point. An overwhelming segment of "the media" is owned by massive corporate conglomerates whose interests are served by conservative politics and politicians.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(01-30-2012 07:43 PM)Brian Wrote:  

Pinning things that happened on or because of 9/11 and blaming them on Bush is just reaching. The wheels for that attack were in motion long before he took over. I thought you were smart enough to tune out the mindless liberal media eager to point the finger but obviously I was wrong.

Brian, I have no idea what you're talking about. Your response to G's assertion that Bush ruined our image around the world was "media deception." I can tell you very honestly from my travels that Bush truly maligned America's image around the world. Traveling to countries in Europe or wherever invited a lot of unpleasant conversations for me being an American. No reasonable person would agree with your response. The perception changed greatly after Obama became President. The world let out a collective sigh of relief. The guy is a rockstar, hate him or love him. Remember when he was still campaigning and made a stop in Berlin? Over 200K people gathered to hear him speak. That's in GERMANY. You think Bush could put himself on a stage like that and receive an enthusiastic response? Even suggesting so would really reveal that you suffer from a deep form of psychosis.

Your defense of "Dubya" is simply unreasonable and downright disingenuous. You are really compromising your credibility as a result.

[thegmanifesto]

(01-30-2012 07:52 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(01-30-2012 07:43 PM)Brian Wrote:  

Pinning things that happened on or because of 9/11 and blaming them on Bush is just reaching. The wheels for that attack were in motion long before he took over. I thought you were smart enough to tune out the mindless liberal media eager to point the finger but obviously I was wrong.

Brian, I have no idea what you're talking about. Your response to G's assertion that Bush ruined our image around the world was "media deception." I can tell you very honestly from my travels that Bush truly maligned America's image around the world. Traveling to countries in Europe or wherever invited a lot of unpleasant conversations for me being an American. No reasonable person would agree with your response. The perception changed greatly after Obama became President. The world let out a collective sigh of relief. The guy is a rockstar, hate him or love him. Remember when he was still campaigning and made a stop in Berlin? Over 200K people gathered to hear him speak. That's in GERMANY. You think Bush could put himself on a stage like that and receive an enthusiastic response? Even suggesting so would really reveal that you suffer from a deep form of psychosis.

Your defense of "Dubya" is simply unreasonable and downright disingenuous. You are really compromising your credibility as a result.

Yeah, I caught Brian above lying about gas prices.

He is either a liar or has no idea what he is talking about.

Either way, he has no credibility anymore.

[The_CEO]

(01-30-2012 07:43 PM)Brian Wrote:  

I thought you were smart enough to tune out the mindless liberal media eager to point the finger but obviously I was wrong.

A cow could kick you in the head and you'd probably be smarter for it

[Brian]

I agree that Bush was hated internationally but i think some of that is because they heard us bashing our own President it encouraged them to do so internationally.

[Brian]

Lying about gas prices? Really?? W/the exception of a 6 month period in 2007 or 2008 gas prices were very reasonable throughout the entire Bush Presidency.

[Brian]

(01-30-2012 08:01 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  

(01-30-2012 07:43 PM)Brian Wrote:  

I thought you were smart enough to tune out the mindless liberal media eager to point the finger but obviously I was wrong.

A cow could kick you in the head and you'd probably be smarter for it

The media isnt liberal? CNN, ABC, NBC and MSNBC aren't liberal shills? CBS's Dan Rather didnt forge documents to attack Bush? Washington Post? NY Times? Is Fox News right biased? Yes. All the others are very left. If you haven't figured that out yet you're even more hopeless then I thought.

[Duke Castile]

(01-30-2012 07:04 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(01-30-2012 06:44 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

Gman, no offense but aside from one or 2 entries there, your list reads like Obama's.

None taken.

I don't like Obama either.

It is more than two though.

These wouldn't apply to Obama:

Not catching Bin Laden
Ruining our image throughout the world
9/11, failing to act on warning signs
Patriot Act
Using Fear to control the population
"Mission Accomplished"
Financial Crash
Supreme Court
Poor environmental record
Handling of Katrina
Being the greatest all around f*ck head in history

He did sign the John McCain architected National Defense Authorization Act though.

Just saw Jim Rodgers on Kudlow. He says:

"What is the difference between Romney and Obama? Romney is from Boston and Obama is from Chicago."

Look, I don't want to get into a defense of Bush argument but I wish you would apply the same amount of scrutiny to Obama. If you did then you would see that Obama has said so many untruths and unfulfilled promises in 4 years it makes listing "mission accomplished" seem irrelevant.

The other stuff I honestly feel there are very strong arguments that should be considered but I really don't want to get into this stuff.

If you want a different outcome then why not support a guy that does not associate with all of these "powers" that everyone is claiming really control the president?

Vote Ron Paul! ; )

[Brian]

There are a lot of people here who do support Ron Paul. Unfortunately the majority of America isnt bright enough to figure it out.

[thegmanifesto]

(01-30-2012 08:35 PM)Brian Wrote:  

I agree that Bush was hated internationally but i think some of that is because they heard us bashing our own President it encouraged them to do so internationally.

I love how you backed off your position, yet still came up with a reason defending him that makes zero sense.

Right. The only reason other countries hated Bush was because we were "bashing" him ourselves.

Had nothing to do with anything else but that, right?

I am glad your responses are on here so everyone won't take you serious anymore. You are really ruining yourself.

(01-30-2012 08:41 PM)Brian Wrote:  

Lying about gas prices? Really?? W/the exception of a 6 month period in 2007 or 2008 gas prices were very reasonable throughout the entire Bush Presidency.

Yeah, lying.

Or you have no idea how to read a chart.

Either way, no one can take what your write serious.

Gas prices and Crude prices nearly quadrupled under Bush.

I traded it. I made money on it.

Hell, Gas prices and Crude prices hit the all time record high in the history of the world under George Bush.

In your world that is "very reasonable". Yeah, your position isn't biased.

You are becoming the Dash Global of the political threads.

[Brian]

Inflation adjusted gas prices:

2008 $3.34
2011 $3.51

Good try there skippy. Maybe you should call Floyd Money Mayweather for more investment ideas.

As far as no one taking me seriously thats funny you think that - I get PM's from other posters telling me they agree w/me and most people on this board are so clueless its not worth arguing over. I'm starting to agree w/them.

[thegmanifesto]

I hate to call names, but you are an idiot.

I was first talking crude, and because you have no idea what was going on, you are now talking retail gas prices.

That being said, of course you are making up numbers and it doesn't matter either way, but I should school you anyways.

Because under Bush, prices for Crude, Gas and Retail Gas all hit the all time record high in the history of the world.

So basically you are a triple idiot.

Since now you are talking retail gas, here are some charts, to make you look like even more of a fool:





Look where they were under Clinton and look under Bush.

You are Dash Global. Maybe even dumber.

[Brian]

key word in that graph: "Adjusted for inflation"

Do you know what that means or do you want to call your boy Money Mayweather for help?

Was there an oil spike for 1 year out of 8? Yep. 12%. Of course thats Bushs fault. And that run up since the community organizer got elected? Like everything else thats ever gone wrong its Bushs fault. But when it reversed and oil got cheap in 2007? That was probably because of Obama and Pelosi. You've spent too much time in that bankrupt bastion of liberalism and bankruptcy California. The only difference between you and the rest of the Newport Beach stoners, surfers, and trust funders is that you know how to rock a suit. Props for that though.

[Giovonny]

(01-29-2012 06:09 PM)pid='151545 Wrote:  

I'm starting to think that these political conversations do more harm than good.

What harm has been done?

No one got hurt. We are getting a deeper look into the minds of these members.

We may have different views on politics but that doesn't mean we can't still learn from each other. I have freinds and family from the left and right of the political spectrum. I enjoy talking to all of them.

I think its important that we have the freedom to speak our minds freely. We may not agree on everything but disagreements encourage critical thinking and deeper reflection. I like guys to challenge my position. I often learn something from those guys.

If we all agreed with each other, well, wouldn't that just be the gayest Forum ever. Disagreements are good, debates are good, as long as we present our case respectfully and intelligently.

Alpha males should be able to discuss, debate, and argue controversial topics without getting emotional and thinking guys are attacking them personally.

If no one challended Dash, he would still be here trolling. Sometimes, guys are out of line and they need to get checked.

I disagree with Hydro and Athlone alot but I still respect and value their opinion.

That being said, I know that sometimes things will get a little personal but so what? Its entertaining and it gives us a more perspective into the mind of that member. You can learn more about someone when they are angry versus when they are content.

Sticks and stones will break my bones but Forum posts will never hurt me! (unless my boss is spying on my internet usage)

Edit: I have no problem with what "G" and Brian are doing in this thread. You guys hash it out and and lets see where the dust settles.

Its a political debate. (With a little smack-talking)

Lets enjoy the this intellectual "sparring".

[Mr.GM]

(01-31-2012 01:52 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(01-29-2012 06:09 PM)pid='151545 Wrote:  

I'm starting to think that these political conversations do more harm than good.

What harm has been done?

No one got hurt. We are getting a deeper look into the minds of these members.

We may have different views on politics but that doesn't mean we can't still learn from each other. I have freinds and family from the left and right of the political spectrum. I enjoy talking to all of them.

I think its important that we have the freedom to speak our minds freely. We may not agree on everything but disagreements encourage critical thinking and deeper reflection. I like guys to challenge my position. I often learn something from those guys.

If we all agreed with each other, well, wouldn't that just be the gayest Forum ever. Disagreements are good, debates are good, as long as we present our case respectfully and intelligently.

Alpha males should be able to discuss, debate, and argue controversial topics without getting emotional and thinking guys are attacking them personally.