[Jersey]

Recently, I've had a lot of success opening and hooking pairs/small groups, but I've noticed a problem. In the pair (or sometimes 3-4 girl group), I'll open everyone and get a reaction. Things will be going well in the first minute or two, and then I'll start indicating which one I'm more interested in (target). I'll generally do it subtly, by being warm and fun to everyone, but only flirty to the one I'm interested in.

The problem comes up when the target is reacting well, but ends up making eye contact with her friend/friends (the other), or notices some body language on them. She'll shut down a bit, then back off and the other will pop back up and begin really engaging me.

Depending on how much the target shuts down, I'll either smoothly eject or hang around for a few more minutes and try to pull her back in. Sometimes, I'm able to pull it back out of the fire by disqualifying the other for some stupid reason (I don't date brunettes, etc.), but often I just find myself out of luck.

Basically, it feels like the other girl calls "dibs" and the hotter friend backs down out of deference. Because if I later find the target alone, I can often resume things without her shutting down. And I could do well with the other, I just don't care.

How do you guys handle/avoid this? I'm sure there's some sub-communication I'm giving off that isn't right, or I'm not establishing my interest quickly enough. What am I missing?

[CGS]

(01-21-2012 07:37 PM)Jersey Wrote:  

Recently, I've had a lot of success opening and hooking pairs/small groups, but I've noticed a problem. In the pair (or sometimes 3-4 girl group), I'll open everyone and get a reaction. Things will be going well in the first minute or two, and then I'll start indicating which one I'm more interested in (target). I'll generally do it subtly, by being warm and fun to everyone, but only flirty to the one I'm interested in.

The problem comes up when the target is reacting well, but ends up making eye contact with her friend/friends (the other), or notices some body language on them. She'll shut down a bit, then back off and the other will pop back up and begin really engaging me.

Depending on how much the target shuts down, I'll either smoothly eject or hang around for a few more minutes and try to pull her back in. Sometimes, I'm able to pull it back out of the fire by disqualifying the other for some stupid reason (I don't date brunettes, etc.), but often I just find myself out of luck.

Basically, it feels like the other girl calls "dibs" and the hotter friend backs down out of deference. Because if I later find the target alone, I can often resume things without her shutting down. And I could do well with the other, I just don't care.

How do you guys handle/avoid this? I'm sure there's some sub-communication I'm giving off that isn't right, or I'm not establishing my interest quickly enough. What am I missing?

This is why it's important you establish control of the set early and neg your target etc... It sounds like your opening fine but failing to make your target want to compete for you, so she is willing to pass off to her less aesthetic friend. Also, once you have went through the whole routine, placed yourself in the center of the converstaion etc, that would be a good time to box out the bitch youre not interested.

[Vicious]

Set? neg? Oh brother... I stepped into the time machine.

Regarding the OP's question however - if your goal is to get laid you pick the girl THAT RESPONDS THE BEST. Not the one that you decided on before walking up. A girl clique's internal food chain will trump just about any game you can put up. To overcome that you have to isolate which risks getting you shut down if it goes against the group's "rules".

[Jersey]

(01-21-2012 08:03 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

if your goal is to get laid you pick the girl THAT RESPONDS THE BEST. Not the one that you decided on before walking up. A girl clique's internal food chain will trump just about any game you can put up.

Yeah, this is pretty close to what I thought was the case. In most cases, I can play around for a bit, establish myself and then indicate who I'm heading for. I mean, last night my friend and I switched up girls after opening 3 times.

So, it might just be a numbers game and I got hit by a bad run in a small sample size. When it happens and I'm attracted to the girl I'm passed off to - I just run with it. If it's on, don't get greedy.

It's just that I hit like 5-6 pairs over two weekends where this happened (and I just wasn't attracted to the girl I was passed to). I didn't have a pre-plan to handle it. To me, that's 90% of tactical game anyway - when something comes up, I've already seen it 10 times, so my reactions are on auto-pilot. I just don't have an auto-pilot for this - and there may not be one.

[WestIndianArchie]

(01-21-2012 08:03 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

Set? neg? Oh brother... I stepped into the time machine.

Regarding the OP's question however - if your goal is to get laid you pick the girl THAT RESPONDS THE BEST. Not the one that you decided on before walking up. A girl clique's internal food chain will trump just about any game you can put up. To overcome that you have to isolate which risks getting you shut down if it goes against the group's "rules".

What if you don't want the one that wants you (invariably the uglier of the 2)? Eject?

*insert some nonsense about controlling the frame* lulz

If the pretty one is deferring to the ugly one, you've got to break them up, either pull the pretty one aside, or have a wing take on the pitbull or really come up with some nice verbals to change the game a bit.

If you're regularly getting your dick wet, now's the time to add something to your skill set.

If you always choose the path of least resistance, you'll never get better.

That used to be me.

I used to be one of those dudes that depended on eye contact from a target prior to approach. Sure the lays were easier, but what if you never catch the girl *you want* looking at you? You're just supposed to fuck whoever is feeling your vibe?

What kinda namby pamby bull shit is that?

After you knock down your first 10-15 notches, your next step should be higher quality notches.

This gets back to foundational stuff, can you say things that actually build attraction, or is everything that you say just slowly uncovering attraction that is already there? Or is it all bullshit in the 1st place? And all we are really doing is "getting lucky" by playing the #'s game.

Who knows...

But don't settle.

WIA

[Jersey]

(01-22-2012 04:59 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

If you always choose the path of least resistance, you'll never get better.
...
After you knock down your first 10-15 notches, your next step should be higher quality notches.

This gets back to foundational stuff, can you say things that actually build attraction, or is everything that you say just slowly uncovering attraction that is already there? Or is it all bullshit in the 1st place? And all we are really doing is "getting lucky" by playing the #'s game.

I think this is why I asked the question in the first place. I've just either taken what's come to me or ejected in these situations in the past, but I have my 15-20 notches and I want to become not good - but great at this.

I'm putting myself in harder situations recently. I'm rolling solo more frequently. And I'm finding that the more I take on the hard situations, the better I get at everything, not just those situations.

I'm looking for a mental model on how to handle this, so I can pre-program my basic tack here. I'm guessing that the next time I run into this and Im not feeling the other girl, I should take a half-step back, re-establish with the group for a minute, and then attempt to isolate the hotter girl. Something like "I'm getting a drink, come with me." There may not be a high chance of success if I haven't nailed attraction yet, but I'm not going to get much further into it unless I can peel her off her other girl.

Or I can do the classic disqualifier to the other chick "Wow. You are totally my friend X's type. He would be all over you. He's coming out with me tomorrow, you have to meet him." Then lean over to the girl I want, repeat the same thing, going into a made-up detail or two why. As long as it's plausible, I think I could sell it.

And who cares, they never have to meet that guy, but it gives the hotter one the out that her friend is taken care of, and the cockblock a reason to root for her girl to hang with me. Gives them a reason to give me their #s, where I can work on the hotter one separately as well.

[Vicious]

(01-22-2012 04:59 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

If the pretty one is deferring to the ugly one, you've got to break them up, either pull the pretty one aside, or have a wing take on the pitbull or really come up with some nice verbals to change the game a bit.

Well now you're altering the scenario, this was about handling women in groups. What you are saying is "isolate her" which I will readily meet with a 'duh'! Isolating a girl will always be one of the most powerful ways to do your game and always one of the most difficult and riskiest. You're not exactly dropping rocket science.

[Duke Castile]

This shit just happened to me. I was at a table in a club here in Las Vegas, around 4am these bottle service girls that got off from another club were hanging out. There were 3, the hottest was this little hungarian girl, full on 9. Her 2 friends were both 8s respectively. I make it known to her that I want her, she laughs and smiles then tries to to introduce me to her friends "they're single". "Good for them, I'm interested in their friend". More flirting. I isolate her but I cannot get this girl to break down. She's moving to another state in 10 days with her boyfriend, she wishes we had met earlier blah blah blah. I'm no quitter so there I am at 7am having coffee hugged up in a booth NOT getting anywhere. I had a great time, and really, the girl got my respect but if I could have done it over again, I'd have banged either of the 8s

[TheWolfHowls]

Isolating is definitely higher risk, higher reward. But its so necessary for screening. I personally need to stop giving up after a girl doesn't want to isolate at first lol.

[misterstir]

I use to have that problem. Now I just approach the girl I want even if she is in a group and ignore the others. Often the hottest girl will even have hot friends that include no fatties, so no cock blocking occurs. Also the hottest girl tends to be the sluttiest one too. I remember experiencing that problem alot when going for less attractive girls. You may want to change up your game by ignoring the hottest one in the group initially and even faking going for one of the uglier girls to make the hotter ones jealous. Than the previous girl who would normally cock block you is now going to be turning around demanding you stick around (because she thinks she has a chance). That's how I played it. In fact I remember a too set, a short fat but not hideous, blonde and a hotter black hair girl. I come from behind with caveman game and dance with the blonde completely shutting out the brunette and ignoring her. Then she got fake pissed off and was all over me and all jealous but the fatty wouldn't cock block me because she wanted me around.