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is this girl way too relaxed?
#1

is this girl way too relaxed?

I went on a date last night. Girl is nice to look at, but not supergoodlooking, and I 'm expecting to be keen - after all a guy asked her out and I'm not without my good points. She seemed keen to meet again after our 1st 'drink' (we met on the net). I thought that 1st meeting went pretty well, her body language was solidly interested. SHe played with her necklace and hair. She asked questions. She even asked me 'what next' when we were leaving. SHe was dressed in her business clothes, and seeing her in stockings and heels made me horny. Of course I asked her out again!

Now jump to the 1st real date.

I come 5 mins late. I dress slightly down jeans - no shirt, but nice t-shirt and top and groomed, and proper business type black shoes - conservative enough.

However, she turns up 15 mins late, so its me there playing with my cellphone when she arrives. I almost left at the 15 min mark (my rule). I'm glad now I dressed a bit down. SHe comes dressed down - at least for what I'm used to. Jeans, black top, no heels. Generally when girls dated me in the past they'd come in and overdress for me.

Her body language is not attentive unlike the 1st meeting, at least at first, but she sits on the same couch. Its way too relaxed. A little bit of nervousness I would like that - but nothing of that.

15 minutes into talking her cell rings and she takes it, and she's on there for 4 minutes. I get up walk around the bar (!), check out the tables, ornaments etc, get back. She's still talking. ANd I'm listening to her conversation, and she's not even doing this ' I need to get off the phone' type stuff to her friend. She's taking the call like its her lounge room. I check my pockets, dissect a bus ticket, check my spare cash, its a bit embarrassing to be doing this.

Then she hangs up and says 'sorry I shouldnt do that on a 1st date. Its someone I haven't been able to catch all day".

Now I would never do that to a girl I'm interested in, but I wonder whether its just bad phone etiquette on her part. I talked to 2 women to get their advice and the advice was "well she just needed to take the call, she apologised, and you really need to keep dating her to find out what she's like".

The rest of the evening is good and she seems to warm up during it and we connect a little more than we had before. We laugh and have a good time. I got one of those brief kisses where our lips met and maybe a little saliva got exchanged but thats all!

Thoughts?

I'd like to make her. Ask her out again or just move on to the next one?

"For the true meaning of victory ask the defeated warrior"
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#2

is this girl way too relaxed?

Quote: (09-05-2008 08:20 AM)twigman Wrote:  

Thoughts?
I'd like to make her. Ask her out again or just move on to the next one?
I'm thinking move on. I don't think her social skills are all there, and you shouldn't settle for less.
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#3

is this girl way too relaxed?

I understand her being late is a little annoying, but your citing of "your rule" makes you sound uptight.

The phone thing is very irritating, I think you should have tried to give her a hard time about it by being cocky/funny and making fun of her "important call", but whatever- you didn't do that at the time so it's now a moot point.

I think she sounds a little too laid back, but I really get the impression you were too high strung. You let things like her clothing choice and lateness totally throw you off and you let the phone thing become a dig on you instead of an opportunity to bust on her.

I'd probably just move on, but learn from this experience.
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#4

is this girl way too relaxed?

I understand where you are coming from. I think its incredibly rude to take a phone call when you are on a date. If she really needed to take it then she should have stressed that more and given you some kind of explanation. This girl just sounds like she thinks the world revolves around her. Will you ever be more important to her than her phone if you were to keep dating?

And I think girls should wear heels. This is strike number 2 for her in my book.
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#5

is this girl way too relaxed?

You should have: put your hand firmly on her arm, and told her in a firm tone, put the phone away. If she protests, call for the bill, pay your share, and leave, and do not contact her. If she contacts you, do what you feel like, but at least go back with reservations.

Leaving is harder on the second meet, but still.

I am dating a girl currently, and there was a long period where we were away from each other, so we talked on the phone quite a bit. Say what you will of that, but anytime she was cranky or distracted, I would say, I'll talk to you another time, because you're being cranky/inattentive.

Everytime manhandling a woman is appropiate, and I don't, I regret it. Get yourself used to invading people's space to get what you want. It might be as simple as moving the backpack of someone nearby to sit down.
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#6

is this girl way too relaxed?

Take control of the situation and just bust on her. My impression is that she's not really digging you because if she was very interested then she would have blown off the phone call. My feeling on the matter is that you never had control over the situation and let her control things. Not good.

At the very least you need to make a play for a lay before moving on. Take control of your dates and make a run for some ass. If she persists after unleashing game on here then it's time to move on.
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#7

is this girl way too relaxed?

You used the word "keen" a couple times. British?
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#8

is this girl way too relaxed?

She seems pre-occupied in her personal life.
Give her one more date. One more dating faux-pas and you should move on.
(my 2 cents)
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#9

is this girl way too relaxed?

0) late
1) she dresses down
2) she's not over the top gorgeous
3) she takes a call during your date
4) she explains after the call, not before the call

In my view, you've been totally disrespected.

I'm totally consumed by the darkside, so i'd make it my personal goal to pump and dump. But that's assuming you can get another date.
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#10

is this girl way too relaxed?

Thanks for all your posts. I liked reading them and I'm going to have to go away and have think about them carefully.

Just a note: I wouldn't tell someone to put the phone away and touch their arm while I did it. I feel I don't have to get in there and change her behaviour. I'd do that with a dog, but not a human. I just have to decide what I'm going to do.

I am fascinated how 2 of the women I talked to, who are very together people, have made excuses for my date. What I hear is excuses that are 'optimistic' but what I hear from authors I respect is that doesn't pay to be optimistic with dates, - be pessimistic - assume the worst. I think Roosh wrote how these women give the lousiest advice. I don't know why they expect me to make these very optimistic and very flexible moves to accommodate the rudeness.

Doesn't anyone else have rules on time before you walk out? If you don't have time rule what else can you use?
I do have a rule of 15 mins late and I'm out of there. I bet you know why. If you want to be the relaxed dude fiddling with his phone for half an hour for some woman he barely knows, be my guest. When she gets to know you and take you a bit for granted she may even later. I feel like if a woman likes a guy she's not going to RISK fucking it up by turning up 20 mins late. She'll move heaven and earth to be there.

Girls know what guys like - they're told again and again by magazines and their friends, and they're continually competing with their friends for slices of attention - the fact that she didn't dress up is a major strike for me.

My personal theory is she's dating another guy she likes more and kind of just likes to see what I'm going to do - or is intrigued by me. Icould very well be the 'backburner guy'.

just a theory

ps. re use of the word "Keen" - Australian.

"For the true meaning of victory ask the defeated warrior"
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#11

is this girl way too relaxed?

Agree with most of the other posters. I would think a respectful girl who is attracted to you would apologize off the bat if she was 15 mins late, and would apologize profusely if for some reason she absolutely had to take a phone call, and then keep it as short as possible. Heck, if I was out with another *guy* and he had to take a phone call, I'd expect at least something like "sorry dude, I really have to take this call, I'll keep it quick" *before* answering the phone. Forget dating, this behavior would be questionable at best for a *friend*. And then the excuse "someone I haven't been able to catch all day" -- huh??? Does the world end if you cannot talk to a person for a whole freaking DAY?

I think basilransom had the best response: you have to call out the bad behavior on the spot. Certainly no later than after the call is over. It's a little late now. I don't see that you have any good options now. Call her out now? Not very classy, and probably not likely to go very well. Ask her out again? Needy and encouraging bad behavior. Ignore her and don't talk to her again? Don't expect to hear from her again. So, whatever you do, you're in a bad spot now.

Now, what I'm wondering about was your comment that she asked "what next?" when you first met. What was your response? Was this a missed opportunity for a one night stand?
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#12

is this girl way too relaxed?

Quote: (09-06-2008 01:44 AM)twigman Wrote:  

Thanks for all your posts. I liked reading them and I'm going to have to go away and have think about them carefully.

Just a note: I wouldn't tell someone to put the phone away and touch their arm while I did it. I feel I don't have to get in there and change her behaviour. I'd do that with a dog, but not a human. I just have to decide what I'm going to do.

I am fascinated how 2 of the women I talked to, who are very together people, have made excuses for my date. What I hear is excuses that are 'optimistic' but what I hear from authors I respect is that doesn't pay to be optimistic with dates, - be pessimistic - assume the worst. I think Roosh wrote how these women give the lousiest advice. I don't know why they expect me to make these very optimistic and very flexible moves to accommodate the rudeness.

Only at this point, you are not a person comfortable demanding respect. If someone is in the library sitting next to you, with headphones blaring, obstructing your studying, do you say something?

It's the same exact thing. And your library neighbor probably isn't even aware that he's being interruptive. That may have been the case with this girl - if she's not actively trying to curry favor with you, she may forget what is appropiate. People, be they children, women or men, just don't have a sense of boundaries sometimes, and they need you to remind them. It'll also feed your masculinity.

Like Zorgon said, any mention of her behavior would make you look weak and passive-agressive, you'd sound like a nag.

BTW, I'm trying to give advice as to how you should act in general, not what you should do in this specific situation.
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#13

is this girl way too relaxed?

Quote: (09-06-2008 01:44 AM)twigman Wrote:  

Doesn't anyone else have rules on time before you walk out? If you don't have time rule what else can you use?

Hell yeah I've got rules, but I prefer to call them standards. It's one thing if something honestly came up, I'm open to deal with emergencies, or someone having a really rough day to excuse them for being late, but if they can't even acknowledge being late and doing other things I find unacceptable, I'd rather move on. I really believe no one should settle for something less than what they want, men or women, so if someone isn't meeting the standards you're wanting, let it go and move on.
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#14

is this girl way too relaxed?

Quote:Quote:

I feel like if a woman likes a guy she's not going to RISK fucking it up by turning up 20 mins late. She'll move heaven and earth to be there.

Boom, you got it.

I've been on dates like this and looking back i wish i got up and left. Some girls will not be capable of treating you in a respectful way, and the best choice is to leave her for the betas who take it and still try to impress their way into her pants.
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#15

is this girl way too relaxed?

Here is the end of the story

I txt'd her : enjoyed friday night, do you want to go see a movie sometime?
she txts 3 hrs later: yeah next week, but nothing much good on

she's just been a waste of time.

"For the true meaning of victory ask the defeated warrior"
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#16

is this girl way too relaxed?

I'm not trying to bust on ya, but I think you blew it upon the first meeting. It sounds like to me she was testing you and you failed the test. Just think about what you didn't do right and fix it the next time you meet a girl. And that text to me sealed it because it comes off as being so Beta coupled with the previous events.
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#17

is this girl way too relaxed?

Quote: (09-07-2008 01:31 AM)twigman Wrote:  

Here is the end of the story

I txt'd her : enjoyed friday night, do you want to go see a movie sometime?
she txts 3 hrs later: yeah next week, but nothing much good on

she's just been a waste of time.

If you haven't already, erase her number. In fact if a girl acts 'off' in any way don't hesitate to erase the number. Will save you from making embarrassing moves like the one described above. Also, it's great later on when you get a text out of the blue from a girl whose number you erased and you respond with 'who is this'. Drives them crazy.
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#18

is this girl way too relaxed?

Thanks for your advice everyone.

Basilransom - I liked your advice - you're obviously well practiced at it. You know I would not have ever have thought to tell her AT THE TIME, that her taking that call was not on, but I realise I should have been upfront and assertive about that.

That is why this forum is so useful to me and I keep coming back here, to hear these views.

Trotter - I don't think she was testing me, I think she wasn't totally attracted to me and then she played around and sucked up my attention. Why she accepted my 2nd date I don't know - her behaviour between the 1st meeting and 2nd meeting was like chalk and cheese.

My final text was just a bit of an experiment for me. I had already moved on in my head.

And thanks for the tip, I erased her no [Image: smile.gif]

"For the true meaning of victory ask the defeated warrior"
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#19

is this girl way too relaxed?

When talking about testing the woman doesn't have a list of things to quiz you on and grades you afterwards. It's the subconscious interaction between male and female behaviours where if you want to score you have to know how to deal with what she dishes out which you didn't do a good job at all in handling. So you failed the test. Afterwards, I wouldn't doubt if she went home and was like you know what I can't believe he let me do that while thinking about how the date went.
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#20

is this girl way too relaxed?

Quote: (09-10-2008 08:49 AM)Trotter Wrote:  

When talking about testing the woman doesn't have a list of things to quiz you on and grades you afterwards. It's the subconscious interaction between male and female behaviours where if you want to score you have to know how to deal with what she dishes out which you didn't do a good job at all in handling. So you failed the test. Afterwards, I wouldn't doubt if she went home and was like you know what I can't believe he let me do that while thinking about how the date went.

Look usually I tell people to cut their date some slack. I think its hard to balance that and call someone out. Her behaviour was certainly noted, and she probably didn't get enough shit for it at the time, but I don't like the criticism levelled as 'not passing the test' - we're human afterall. And I doubt she would have gone home thinking that - I was probably one of 3 guys she was seeing and was keener on the other two or something so she let her manners slide.

"For the true meaning of victory ask the defeated warrior"
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#21

is this girl way too relaxed?

You messed up simple as that. Learn from it for the next time.
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#22

is this girl way too relaxed?

Quote: (09-10-2008 08:49 AM)Trotter Wrote:  

you have to know how to deal with what she dishes out which you didn't do a good job at all in handling.
You don't have to 'know' anything - just, is this what I want?

PUAs often sound like military strategists in their advice; I prefer being like a father - reward 'em with love when they're pleasing you, and discipline them if they aren't. And uh, drop 'em at the local orphanage if it gets FUBAR.

It's like everything else in game, you can fake confidence by preparing (answers for shit tests), or be real, and just not take shit from anyone.

She doesn't go home thinking, "Oh my god, he didn't DHV, so I started yapping on the phone to shit test him and he totally failed! He's not gonna get any IOIs from me tonight, what an AFC!" It's not a conscious action on her part. At most, she felt twigman was a bit of a pushover. The impulse to test comes naturally.

And as for 'test,' don't use someone else's guidelines, set your standards according to what you deem disrespect. Plus, it's hard to live up to standards that aren't your own.

With the first girl I banged, I would take total disrespect from her. I couldn't like her because of it, but continued to hang out and bang her, until I just grew disgusted of her (~1 month total of dating). Afterwards, I resolved not to take shit from any girl I'm dating.

As for girls telling you to continue dating her, yeah girls do that. Girls always say to continue dating her, no matter the circumstances. Girls' are usually naive, and their counsel is ill-suited to seduction.
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#23

is this girl way too relaxed?

Too much thinking in literals. Might just have to just spell everything out from here on.
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