[TudoBem]

Roosh's recent post on the morality of game was concerning to me, even though I usually like what he writes. I think amorality is a central component of game. We are only concerned with the most effective means to achieve our ends (sex), free from any thoughts of morality. Roosh commented that he felt guilty when some "good girl" Polish woman would be cleaning his apartment the morning after he banged her. I don't see why. He knew what he wanted, he went out and got it. That is alpha. Should he or any man just change what they want because the girl cooks or cleans or gives off the appearance of being good (this is a primary female game tactic, and they are skilled at it) ??? I don't think so. And internalizing this belief is a big component for anyone who wants to advance in game.

A big influence for me is Machiavelli's "The Prince." If you have never read it, I suggest you do, and then reread it from time to time.

"But since it is my object to write what shall be useful to whosoever understands it, it seems to me better to follow the real truth of things than an imaginary view of them. For many Republics and Princedoms have been imagined that were never seen or known to exist in reality. And the manner in which we live, and that in which we ought to live, are things so wide asunder, that he who quits the one to betake himself to the other is more likely to destroy than to save himself; since any one who would act up to a perfect standard of goodness in everything, must be ruined among so many who are not good.It is essential therefore for a prince to have learnt how to be other than good and to use, or not to use, his goodness as necessity requires."


Here is the same concept in different words:

"Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water my friend."

[Timoteo]

Actually, what you're suggesting is that game demands true sociopathic behavior. While it's true that game mirrors this: Sociopaths are usually charming and/or witty, and appear friendly and considerate as a mask for their own personal agenda (in this case, the agenda is getting pussy). That in and of itself isn't horrible, because most human beings engage in certain behavior to get what they want from someone else. However, sociopaths also exhibit a disregard for the physical and/or sexual well-being of others, and lack regret for their actions or empathy for others.

I'm not disturbed by Roosh expressing normal human feelings and emotions with regard to another human being. If we know anything about him, or any number of guys that are out there hunting, is that they're back out there the next night and the night after that trying to get pussy. I'm sure Roosh feeling a little guilt with regards to how he treated one particular young lady isn't going to make him give pause when he's about to penetrate a new honey. I don't think you need to actually be a less decent human being to be good at game, or somehow eliminate ALL feelings of empathy or guilt. I think game is more about pushing past those feelings as opposed to eliminating them.

[TudoBem]

That's not really what a sociopath is.
Anyhow, the whole idea is to avoid labels, and merely find the most effective means to your end.
Do what works.
See the world how it is, not how you want it to be. Ever play poker?

[BortimusPrime]

Game is amoral in the same sense that sciene is amoral. ...Actually game is a science when you think about it. Roosh basically applies the scientific method to seducing women through hypothesis, controlled experimentation, and observation of results.

Now, that doesn't mean that you have to apply an amoralistic attitude to what you do with the knowledge you gain from science. Understanding game has no moral context since it's simply a model of male/female psychology. You can choose to act on that knowledge in a moral or immoral fashion.

[Timoteo]

(12-22-2011 10:04 PM)TudoBem Wrote:  

That's not really what a sociopath is.
Anyhow, the whole idea is to avoid labels, and merely find the most effective means to your end.
Do what works.
See the world how it is, not how you want it to be. Ever play poker?

Who did I label? Actually, those ARE elements of sociopathic behavior. And I'm not sure I understand your response regarding seeing the world how it is, as opposed to how we want it to be. You expressed concern that a man showed some sympathy for a chick he just fucked. I disagreed. That to be great at game, we as men have to express a ruthless disregard for others. That doesn't make sense to me. You seem to equate being Alpha with being ruthless in the context of game, and I don't think that's what Alpha means in this context...

[Giovonny]

I love this post. Bruce Lee and Machiavelli are 2 of my favorite philosophers. Both have helped me with my Game and life in general.

Bruce's "formless"/"shapeless" philsophy was my approach before I ever discovered Game. Attracting and seducing girls is just like a fight, you can't always go in with a predetermined system that you are going to follow no matter what. Great athletes and seducers have to make "gametime" adjustments. They have to be aware of their opponents strengths and weaknesses and adjust to them. Find a weak spot and attack it.

Maybe a girl, has a thing for rebels. Once I discover this, I will present myself in a more rebellious way. Maybe she is into health and fitness, I will focus more on that stuff.

Maybe she wants to talk and express herself, I will listen.

Maybe she craves male leadership and wants the man to do most of the talking, I will speak strongly.

Whatever topics or attitudes her mind is attracted to, will be the topics and attitudes that I display. I don't always force my way of thinking onto her. Instead, I will use her own mind to gain access to her body. Her mind is the key to getting her body. Its all a mind game.

Will I lie? Yes, if I need too. Does that make me sociopath? I don't think so. Is a girl a sociopath because she wears makeup and presents herself to the world in a way that is not true? I don't think so. She is just trying to give herself the best chance to attract a man. And, I am just using my knowledge of human nature to make her comfortable enough to sleep with me.

Who's to say whats moral and what's immoral?

If a man rapes and/or kills a woman, we can call him a sociopath. But, if all he does is take her up to his hotel room and knock her pussy into next week leaving her curled up in cum soaked bed sheets, we can only call him a "player".