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American Movies That Pedestalize Women
#26

American Movies That Pedestalize Women

Well, a woman took over writing Entourage the last few seasons so its no surprise.
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#27

American Movies That Pedestalize Women

Quote: (11-17-2011 05:20 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

Quote: (11-15-2011 11:11 PM)P Dog Wrote:  

Vincent Chase and Ari Gold from Entourage are pure alpha.

I can't really agree with this, especially after this last season. They come across as soft, pedestalizing betas in the show's last 9 or so episodes.

Vince goes from consumate player to super-sensitive nice guy, going out of his way to try and show how "good-hearted" he is to his former hookups and commissioning his friends to document this. Towards the end of this last season, the guy is basically groveling for validation from the old hookups he hunts down ("I mean, you thought I was good to you, right?", "You thought I was nice, right?"). This is insecure beta male behavior, and I would know because I've been that type of guy.

All of this was in turn triggered by an encounter with a single very attractive but ball-busting journalist who was able to, in just the space of a few days, get Vince to a) fall completely and totally in love with her, in spite of her ball-busting nature and lack of physical advantage over many of the other women Vince has been with, b) start going out of his way trying to qualify himself to her by completely inverting his player/carefree persona (hence the documented attempts to show he's really a "nice guy" and his effort to find former hookups and seek their validation for this) and c) marry her after like a week of dating.

That's all incredibly beta, and difficult to even believe. He went from confident player to still good-looking and rich but highly insecure, supplicating, needy beta in no time flat.

Ari is not much better. The dude is very alpha in the office, but his wife has him by the balls, groveling, supplicating and essentially making a fool out of himself with her every little decision. So firmly does she grasp his balls that he couldn't even bring himself to bang a hot young model-caliber girl on which he'd been put on a date with.
After refusing her clear solicitations for sex, he runs into the arms of another old cougar (the lady who runs the studio, I think her name was Dana Gordon) who is closer to his wife age-wise for "comfort", because he needs "someone to talk to".

His wife forced him to go from somewhat confident and very alpha male (in spite of his latent soft spot for her) to sensitive, mushy, insecure beta who "just wants to talk", and rejects the solicitations of younger (and vastly more attractive) women just so he can get a cougar to soothe his feelings and remind him of his wife.

At the same time, he also uses Dana in an elaborate scheme to make said wife jealous, as if he were a teenaged girl. This type of bickering and devious plotting is something I'd expect to see from a Gossip Girl character, not an alpha male executive. Grown alpha males don't bother with juvenile stunts like that, they simply endure and find a way to move on without stooping to that silly level. Obsessed, pussy-whipped and insecure beta males are the only ones who would even consider that crap.

Men who depend on women for their emotional stability and sustenance (the way Ari did with Dana) are betas. Alpha males do not rely on sexual partners to validate them, and they certainly do not choose said partners on the basis of their ability to "talk" and "soothe" them. They choose women who they are attracted to, and do not expect said women to solve any emotional/existential issues they have because that is not a woman's responsibility-it is HIS.

To assign that responsibility to any woman and build a dependence on it (again, the way Ari did with Dana Gordon in the wake of his separation) is to engage in intense and unhealthy pedestalization ("You're so special and great, YOU can solve my problems!!! I NEED YOU!!!!"), a behavior common to beta males. In real life, women usually reject this type of guy because a) that behavior is a sign of weakness and they prefer confident, self-assured men and b) they don't like being pedestalized and subsequently forced to live up to the expectations that come with it (read: they don't want to be your mom). Again, I know having been that guy before.

Bottomline: Ari and Vince were far from alphas in this last season.

Couldn't have said it better myself...

Okay, that's a lie. I just don't feel like saying it better myself. When the most alpha character on the show in the last season was E, you know you aren't dealing with the pinnacle of manliness here.
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#28

American Movies That Pedestalize Women

As for "Entourage," the finale sickened me. The first thing I thought was, "a bitch probably wrote this." If you can remember back to the beginning of the series, Ari's wife was a basically failed actress that latched onto a rising star, and then when he puts in the work to build himself into the most powerful player in the business, she wants him to stop and pay more attention to her and the kids. I won't say she had him totally by the balls throughout the marriage - he found a way to balance who he is with his demands as a husband and father. If you're going to marry, you have to do that. Even Don Corleone (I dare anyone to say HE wasn't alpha) declared you weren't a man if you don't spend time with your family. In counseling he tried to keep his family together, partly because of what a divorce would cost him financially. Don't forget that.

Ari started fucking Dana Gordon not so much because she was similar to his wife, but because she's an ex. He used to fuck her years ago when he was rising up the ladder, and even though he was probably a dick to her, they still had feelings. So the Ari storyline didn't bother me. Vince however...that's a different story. I didn't have a problem with him getting pussy because he was good-looking and famous - it happens. I saw Vince as alpha because of how he took care of his boys, and did everything he could to share success with them. He made certain career choices, passing on star vehicles to do "Medellin" so a buddy could direct it. He wanted to do his own stunts on another film because he felt like a pussy, and wanted to challenge himself. I have no problem with that. It's like that actor that does soft rom-coms that decides to do a gritty indie film to stretch himself and be taken more seriously. At the core, most actors are insecure and always seeking validation. However, Vince trying to push up on an Oxford-trained journalist, and yes, going so far to validate himself to her was major shark-jumping, and them agreeing to marry made me kind of sick. I felt like I invested years in this show, to see it end like that? I was okay with the E & Sloane storyline though...that seemed more realistic to me.

"The best kind of pride is that which compels a man to do his best when no one is watching."
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#29

American Movies That Pedestalize Women

Drama was probably the most alpha on that show, at least when dealing with women.
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#30

American Movies That Pedestalize Women

Like wi30 said 90% movies depict women as superior to men. Movies aren't the sole reason why mos men are beta these days, it also has a lot to don with their upbringing.
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#31

American Movies That Pedestalize Women

I agree that Johnny Drama was the most alpha, with a contrast of his vulnerability.

The episodes where this would spike in one direction then the other were, IMO, the best episodes.
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#32

American Movies That Pedestalize Women

Ari was kinda alpha in the first season,but Johnny was easily the most alpha in Entourage. I only watched the first 2 seasons so I wouldn't know a whole lot.
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