[Ulysses]

So, if girls are calling you a creep, what are you doing wrong???

[Batata]

You are giving off a beta vibe, as in you're not being assertive and confident enough.

[Excelsior]

(10-29-2011 11:46 PM)Batata Wrote:  

You are giving off a beta vibe, as in you're not being assertive and confident enough.

Or you're being too assertive/confident without the right substance to back it up.

An example to illustrate:

I dove into the game full force when I got to college. I dealt with some approach anxiety early, but I realized that once I got a little alcohol in me I became practically fearless and very sexually aggressive. I figured this was a good thing (it is college, right?), so I ran with it.

One of my common practices involved venturing to frat dance parties across campus and approaching cute girls (some I casually knew, some I didn't) on the floor to dance/grind with them.
Using some game advice I'd read around the net, I assumed it would be crucial to escalate. I began to do the "turn around" frequently (grinding with the girl from behind, grab her hand and twirl her around so she is now facing you as you continue grinding). From here, I could gauge the potential for making a move/makeout.

The problem is that, on my campus anyway, girls really don't like to do this unless you've built a ton of rapport/comfort or are very high status (rich, tall, white, alpha-male, lax-bro looking type in top fraternity). I had none of these things, so girls viewed my twirling them around as an issue. They were never comfortable, and would frequently disengage or turn back around for a minute or two before leaving.
Later on, it would get back to me (usually via my friends, who may have also been talking to the same girls casually) that they thought I was "creepy".

What'd I do wrong? I wasn't timid. One the contrary, I was quite aggressive in approaching the girls I liked and trying to escalate. I was pretty much running what Roosh called Brazilian "Cave-Man" game.
I wasn't lacking in confidence either. I fully expected to succeed.

The reason I failed stemmed from the fact that in the particular environment I was in (small, Ivy League campus), girls usually required a lot more rapport and tighter, more extensive use of game before any moves were made (unless you had certain social/economic prerequisites, which I did not). Raw, aggressive approaches don't fly, even if they are actually attracted to you. These girls are far too restrained, analytical and cautious for any of that to work-even if they feel you on a physical level, they simply will not let themselves express that openly, especially in front of many others. When you try to pull it off anyway, they'll start to feel uncomfortable. When a girl is uncomfortable or doesn't understand the behavior she's seeing from a guy, the "creepy" label inevitably follows.

So, the lesson here is that your environment is important. At a state school or back in high school where the rules/physical preferences girls adhere to are different, I might have gotten away with the cave-man game I ran. In college, I was just a creep, and a little less raw aggression and quieter confidence would have probably helped me avoid that label. Nuance is key-you're only a creep if you violate the rules/expectations girls have of the environment you're in. My environment prohibited super-aggressive dudes, so I was a creep.

Understand the rules girls have in your environment, and tailor your game to them. Chances are, all you're doing wrong is violating these expectations.

[soup]

Creepyness comes from incongruence or skipping steps int the game (like escalating to a kiss without having established basic social kino).

[Caligula]

+1 on Athlone's response.

It's about incongruence or awkwardness more than anything.

[gig]

OP You need to adapt to your environment (similar to what Athlone said).

And don't be trying 'tactics you read on the internet' on girls ("beasting", "negging", "clawing") because as long as you do, a creep you will be labeled. And that's a shame because it's not even really you - you're willingly adopting someone else's creepiness.

[Mr.GM]

Athlone's response is perfect, even here in Brazil cave man game has its limitations. When I was hitting girls in College I had to cool down the agressivenees , since social/peer approval plays a role here as well. It's all about adapting to the envinronment.

[Caligula]

(10-30-2011 10:07 AM)gig Wrote:  

OP You need to adapt to your environment (similar to what Athlone said).

And don't be trying 'tactics you read on the internet' on girls ("beasting", "negging", "clawing") because as long as you do, a creep you will be labeled. And that's a shame because it's not even really you - you're willingly adopting someone else's creepiness.

True. Adopting pickup tactics that you're not comfortable with or that you can't fully make your own will make you incongruent, and possibly creepy.

[davidkm590]

(10-29-2011 11:41 PM)Ulysses Wrote:  

So, if girls are calling you a creep, what are you doing wrong???

Agreed with what everyone else is saying. Know your environment, and you have to be congruent.

This topic actually plagued me for a bit(mainly in college), since I was used to taking a lot of risks and be more aggressive. I had to tone things down and play it safe. Not surprisingly, I got destroyed when I graduated from college because I was being "too chill" and wasn't taking risks.

In terms of being congruent, this is where it gets a bit complicated. From my experience, I came across as a bit weird because I kept trying to sneak under the radar when I was clearly attracted to her. If you're ashamed of your sexuality and what you want out out of her, then this will manifest in your body language. This incongruence is bad. It can be tough though, because a lot of guys then become too aggressive, start being touch-feely, and say really sexual shit when they're not sure how to do it appropriately.

The key really is balance. You have to embrace your lust haha and at the subconscious level the girl has to feel that this isn't just a friendly conversation, and you really have to adjust/calibrate to the situation. You ever wonder why some guys get away with a lot? Well, it's partly because they have social intuition and know when to escalate, take risks, and it comes from the proper frame. Can't really explain it, but as you do it, you'll get a better feel of it.

Women can be shitty because they can call just about anything creepy. What I noticed is that a lot of "creepiness" is not only in the incongruence stemming from your mindset, but also in how you display yourself through body language.

I would highly recommend having another guy friend you can trust to give you feedback on how you carry yourself. Any of the following things below can be seen as potentially creepy(because a lot of women can be this judgmental):

• voice with little inflection
• you stare too long or in a way where she feels like she's being hunted
• awkward/nervous tics
• shifty eyes
• droopy eyes
• not smiling enough, having a poker face most of the time.
• bad posture overall
  

Hope this helps

[isis]

This a tough one - especially as 'Bang' tells you to be a little bit creepy, in that, when you escalate you might feel slightly out of place, but you need to convince yourself, that what you are doing is not at all creepy.

feeling / being creepy is a state of mind, one in which you expect things to happen from the outside.

[isis]

(10-30-2011 07:06 PM)davidkm590 Wrote:  

The key really is balance. You have to embrace your lust ...

+1

[Batata]

(10-30-2011 01:54 AM)soup Wrote:  

Creepyness comes from incongruence or skipping steps int the game (like escalating to a kiss without having established basic social kino).

I agree. This also looks to be what Athlone's problem was in the beginning. Not so much running the wrong kind of game, but not really running game at all.

[davidkm590]

Forgot to add this.

Some general pointers that might help:
-learn how to be comfortable in your own skin

-creepiness also comes from being too dependent on the outcome. If you're just out to get laid(which all of us are), but you get the sense/feeling that you're acting like a predator/shark, women can sense that shit. To add to that, that'll probably make you jump the gun and give off a desperate vibe. Not good.

Again, this is such a bitch to give advice on because while you do want to get laid and you have to own up to those intentions(without being too forward), you also have to genuinely be okay with having nothing happen with the girl you're talking to.

Also, it helps a shitton if you really are having fun and are focused on giving love/value/good emotions to other people. You shouldn't be the dancing clown and ass-kisser, but if you're really having a good time and have good "energy", people feed off that.

On that note, it's important to not bullshit yourself by going out to "just have fun" when it's clear you would like to get laid. I did that before, and that's all that happened: I had fun. But the problem with that was I wanted something from the girl, so long story short, you'll have to fiddle around with it to the point of balance where you truly are enjoying yourself, where you own up to your intentions, know how to recognize what to do in the situation, and are okay with "losing" a girl.

[KingofScotland]

Quote:

congruent

Is this word of the month around here? It's been used several times in this thread and seems to pop up in every other thread too. It's an unusual word to use and not something I expect to hear in normal conversation.

[Caligula]

(10-31-2011 01:26 PM)KingofScotland Wrote:  

Quote:

congruent

Is this word of the month around here? It's been used several times in this thread and seems to pop up in every other thread too. It's an unusual word to use and not something I expect to hear in normal conversation.

What do you find confusing about it? It describes a state that's essential for tight game, especially for newbies. Hence why it gets thrown around so much.

[ColSpanker]

Being the "Creepy Old Guy" in the bar can be a problem if you're over 50 (like me). Unless you want to spend the evening guarding your spot and waiting for all the HB's to approach (fat chance), you're better off running day game. Just my 2 cents.

[chefedemaquina]

Once you're labeled a creep, it's hard to get out of that label, it's like being called a scrounge or being called a perv or anything else that people will always associate with you. I, on occasion will run into someone whom I haven't seen in 20 or 30 years, what I remember about them is the stigma of what people thought about them all those years ago and when I mention to friends that I ran into "John Doe" the other day, their exact words will be "is he still a creep".