[JoyStick]

i'm very playful and smile and laugh a lot naturally with male and female. roosh and heartiste both think it's unattractive for a guy to have a big cheesy smile on his face all the time and i have noticed that this have hurt my game. girls sometime don't take me serious and it's harder for me to be seductive. can any of you guys relate and are there any exercise to help me look more like instead of

[Carne]

You don't want to smile when you are talking to the girl if nothing is funny..I don't see the problem with just smiling and laughing with your guy friends however??

[JoyStick]

I understand that. I was making the point that i'm just naturally smiley and it isn't because I'm in the presence of a female, because i'm the same way with my homies. Do y'all know any ways I could work on controlling my face when I'm talking to girls so I don't look like a goof?

[Carne]

The way I learned was that whenever I acted giggly the girl would get uncomfortable and leave. Then I learned to control my face. It was a slow and painful process.

[Constantine]

I feel you. I probably smile more than I should too. I think if I'm enjoying the conversation or if it just has a generally lighthearted vibe I tend to smile a lot. I just try to make a point of being somewhat aware of it and trying to tone it down during the low points in conversation. But this is probably something I should work on more, after reading your post I wonder if I come across a little too "goofy" and not as "cool".

Can't think of any tricks, just try to be aware of it. Try to stay pretty cool and calm unless something is genuinely funny.

[isis]

(10-28-2011 08:24 PM)JoyStick Wrote:  

I understand that. I was making the point that i'm just naturally smiley and it isn't because I'm in the presence of a female, because i'm the same way with my homies. Do y'all know any ways I could work on controlling my face when I'm talking to girls so I don't look like a goof?

Don't try to control your face, it is simply not possible, it will look awkward - instead try to work on your thoughts, once you get someone interested, try to focus on what this interaction means to you - beyond the 'smile'.

[JoyStick]

(10-29-2011 12:39 AM)isis Wrote:  

(10-28-2011 08:24 PM)JoyStick Wrote:  

I understand that. I was making the point that i'm just naturally smiley and it isn't because I'm in the presence of a female, because i'm the same way with my homies. Do y'all know any ways I could work on controlling my face when I'm talking to girls so I don't look like a goof?

Don't try to control your face, it is simply not possible, it will look awkward - instead try to work on your thoughts, once you get someone interested, try to focus on what this interaction means to you - beyond the 'smile'.

i appreciate your input, but i don't understand. actors and models pretty much control their faces for a living. how is it impossible?

[isis]

(10-29-2011 01:53 AM)JoyStick Wrote:  

i appreciate your input, but i don't understand. actors and models pretty much control their faces for a living. how is it impossible?

hmm... is it something you control(either being excited or otherwise), or is it more of an physical auto-reflex?

[JoyStick]

(10-29-2011 02:18 AM)isis Wrote:  

(10-29-2011 01:53 AM)JoyStick Wrote:  

i appreciate your input, but i don't understand. actors and models pretty much control their faces for a living. how is it impossible?

hmm... is it something you control(either being excited or otherwise), or is it more of an physical auto-reflex?

i guess both? when i'm happy or excited i smile and laugh more but i smile in normal conversations too. my manager at my old job didn't think i took my job seriously because i would always start smiling when he bitch at me about something.. haha. he would get so pissed off! i couldn't help it though.

i'm thinking i developed the habit because i used to be EXTREMELY shy when i was younger but then i got a job waiting tables and had to learn how to be friendly and seek rapport with my guests and other people. i was a server for over 6 years. now i smile automatically when i talk.

now that i'm learning game, i realize i don't want to be seeking rapport.. i want to be the one giving value. but i'm not sure how to break the habit.

[Zep]

I know what you mean.

Camcorder time.

Just start riffing a story into a camcorder or iphone....then watch it back on a big monitor. What we want here is a huge wince factor. "god I look like a dork"....good, if that's the reaction.

If that doesn't work. Gaffer tape.

[Zep]

(10-29-2011 03:58 AM)Zep Wrote:  

Gaffer tape?

[Feo]

Your smile is basically a nervous-tick. Control your social anxiety and you will be able to control your smile. This sounds like hippie shit, but try meditation and breathing exercises.

[Soma]

(10-29-2011 03:25 AM)JoyStick Wrote:  

i'm thinking i developed the habit because i used to be EXTREMELY shy when i was younger but then i got a job waiting tables and had to learn how to be friendly and seek rapport with my guests and other people. i was a server for over 6 years. now i smile automatically when i talk.

So you learned to smile excessively to conceal a social phobia and internalized it. Now you just have to unlearn it. At first you'll have to be consciously thinking about it and correcting yourself but it should quickly get better over time.

A suggestion: Pick your favorite suave, stylish, etc. ladies man, e.g. James Bond. Now, when talking to a girl, every minute or so just think of that person and do a quick once-over on your body language, including smile. Think: would James Bond do this? Do I have a shit-eating grin on my face? If so, correct it. It should only take a second or two. Thinking of a person and having his positive, alpha image in your head can really help you to remember and learn rather than just repeatedly telling yourself to stop smiling so much. With practice, you should be able to internalize this in a week to a month and not worry about it anymore.

[JoyStick]

cool.. i'm going to try what everybody suggested. thanks y'all so much for all of the tips.

[soup]

This might help- remind yourself that smiles are an indicator of interest. You have to make her earn your smiles. By over-smiling, you are giving her to much interest without having been earned. This is going to creep her out. It's like the guy that buys her a drink without her having earned it.

Just don't smile. Don't telegraph any emotions (let her be the emotional one). Have a dis-interested poker face. She cannot affect you. Slightly smirk when she does something naive/stupid.

[Gmac]

Think of drowning puppies? I dunno man, it's all in your head. I've never heard of smiling too much being a problem (if it's cheesy, sure). I used to know a guy who was extremely well liked by everyone and just had that positive energy. Everyone wanted to be around him... ok so he turned out gay, but still.

[Soma]

(11-04-2011 07:10 AM)Gmac Wrote:  

Think of drowning puppies? I dunno man, it's all in your head. I've never heard of smiling too much being a problem (if it's cheesy, sure). I used to know a guy who was extremely well liked by everyone and just had that positive energy. Everyone wanted to be around him... ok so he turned out gay, but still.

If you smile too much you'll come off as non-sexual, non-threatening, and yes, cheesy, like her gay best friend. It's not a turn-on. Not smiling at all gives off a weird, negative vibe. You want to hit the sweet spot somewhere in between.

[speakeasy]

One thing to also look out for is head-nodding. I have a bad habit sometimes of constantly nodding my head as the other person is talking. I try to catch myself. Makes it seem like you are being overly-polite. Not that you can't do it sometimes just to show some agreement or acknowledgement, but some people do it as a habit whenever someone is talking to them.

[Screwston]

i have the same problem. i just think of loved ones who have passed away if I feel it coming on. they would want me to get the pussy if they were here!