[TravelerKai]

(03-05-2019 12:02 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  

Robbie Lawler was robbed..... but that slam and ground and pound around the 30 second mark really wets my whistle

He wasn't robbed at all.

The way it works when you ref a MMA fight, is that you have to see the guy that is getting choked, continue to work. Robbie dropped his arm at the 1:24 mark. He then did not pick up his hand to continue to resist.

I would have stopped the fight the exact same time the ref did. Since there is music I cannot tell if the ref called out Robbie's name either to make sure he was still there or not. Usually you want to do a quick call out before stopping the guy doing the choke.

Also, Herb Dean is hands down the best referee in MMA, in the world. He is not the kind of ref that misses calls or has poor judgement. He used to fight too. Guys like that make the best refs usually.

[Cr33pin]

(03-05-2019 04:06 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(03-05-2019 12:02 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  

Robbie Lawler was robbed..... but that slam and ground and pound around the 30 second mark really wets my whistle

He wasn't robbed at all.

The way it works when you ref a MMA fight, is that you have to see the guy that is getting choked, continue to work. Robbie dropped his arm at the 1:24 mark. He then did not pick up his hand to continue to resist.

I would have stopped the fight the exact same time the ref did. Since there is music I cannot tell if the ref called out Robbie's name either to make sure he was still there or not. Usually you want to do a quick call out before stopping the guy doing the choke.

Also, Herb Dean is hands down the best referee in MMA, in the world. He is not the kind of ref that misses calls or has poor judgement. He used to fight too. Guys like that make the best refs usually.

We will have to agree to disagree. The "choke" wasn't even around his neck and Robbie gave the thumbs up while Herb started to stop the fight. Of course Robbie dropped his arm.... what good was it doing him straight up in the air in a awkward position?

A more justified stoppage would have been when Robbie was ground and pounding the fuck out of Ben

[TutorGuina]

(12-31-2018 03:47 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 12:45 PM)Rush87 Wrote:  

If you're not cheating, you're not trying.

This is my view as well.

I triggered this BJJ/MMA fighter guy hard when I told him, "no one watches UFC for ethics. The average fan secretly admires JJ for being a horrible person and STILL at the top of the game."

This "fighter" was whining on and on about how JJ doesn't deserve this and that because he's not a good guy. Ironically, many fighters are the most idealistic about what the sport should be. They forget that UFC is a damn business. The wheels on the bus go round 'n' round because of controversy and brutality, not ethics. If guys want to watch the Nicest Fighters Championship then I really don't know what to tell them.

I'm not a fighter and have no real interest in fighting in the UFC or any sort of tournament format. Unfortunate or not, the people spending the most money on the sport also really don't give a shit. If anything, they like it more since they are presented with the opportunity to possibly see JJ lose (even though they know he won't).

Despite being a reprehensible human being, JJ is an absolute joy to watch and that's ultimately why he gets special treatment.

Honestly, who here wouldn't cheat if it meant you get millions of dollars when you win. Guys who say they wouldn't cheat are obviously not trying to win.

Pride had a much more honourable polish, fake or not, and still sold to the masses like hamburgers. JJ is a scumbag and should answer for his eyepoking to the UFC and for his DUI's and hit and runs to the justice
A fighting promotion doesn't have to be a middle school teacher babysitting adult athletes, but to look the other way or even give benefits to jackasses like Jones, McGregor or Mayweather turns your events into a shitshow

Pride had it right, make PEDs legal and harshly punish the other kind of cheaters. Stop focusing on the thrash talking bullshit and focus on dynamic rules for awesome fighting
Btw, no one treated Mike Tyson with kids gloves when he bit Hollyfield, and his trash talking and asshole personality was something that complimented his fighting, not the opposite

[Cr33pin]

[TravelerKai]

(03-07-2019 10:33 AM)Cr33pin Wrote:  

(03-05-2019 04:06 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(03-05-2019 12:02 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  

Robbie Lawler was robbed..... but that slam and ground and pound around the 30 second mark really wets my whistle

He wasn't robbed at all.

The way it works when you ref a MMA fight, is that you have to see the guy that is getting choked, continue to work. Robbie dropped his arm at the 1:24 mark. He then did not pick up his hand to continue to resist.

I would have stopped the fight the exact same time the ref did. Since there is music I cannot tell if the ref called out Robbie's name either to make sure he was still there or not. Usually you want to do a quick call out before stopping the guy doing the choke.

Also, Herb Dean is hands down the best referee in MMA, in the world. He is not the kind of ref that misses calls or has poor judgement. He used to fight too. Guys like that make the best refs usually.

We will have to agree to disagree. The "choke" wasn't even around his neck and Robbie gave the thumbs up while Herb started to stop the fight. Of course Robbie dropped his arm.... what good was it doing him straight up in the air in a awkward position?

A more justified stoppage would have been when Robbie was ground and pounding the fuck out of Ben

I do not see a thumbs up in the video. Also when he dropped his arm it was limp, a red flag. Also, it is up to the ref that if someone is not fighting back intelligently or attempting to escape correctly, to stop the fight. If you cannot put up an intelligent defense the fight will be stopped on feet, chokes, via strikes, etc. no exceptions, fighter safety comes first.

The reason why he did not stop the fight over the ground and pound was because Ben still had full guard, back was arched, and his forehead was coming forward. They teach us (at least at the Texas Boxing Commission and likely in the NBC as well) that if the fighters head lays flat and 1-2 strikes are given and the head does not come back off the mat, to stop the fight.

[Fortis]

I see a limp Lawler as well. Also a choke DOES NOT have to be completed around the neck. There are all sorts of weirdness that professionals can pull off that look magical to normal guys.

He has Lawler in a bulldog choke and it's a blood choke.

My theory is that Lawler went out for like 1 second and doesn't know he did. That can easily happen.

In person, I've seen guys at BJJ tournaments get choked out for a second or two and then pop up like nothing happened and argue with the ref about it.

Honestly, everyone is saying Lawler looked great, but he couldn't finish no-hands Askren with a vicious ground and pound? He's not gonna be able to Tee off on any else in the division like that. He will get countered punched hard for that sort of bellicosity.

His attack and body slam looked beautiful but it ultimately was a waste of energy. I suspect his days are numbered against the rest of the WW division if he couldn't beat a pure wrestler with the number of strikes he was launching.

[Fortis]

(12-31-2018 11:46 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

(12-31-2018 03:47 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 12:45 PM)Rush87 Wrote:  

If you're not cheating, you're not trying.

This is my view as well.

That's the mindset of the weak.

The UFC is a clown show, we have drugged up butch lesbians fighting each other, drugged up cheaters fighting against clean fighters and being praised for cheating, because if you don't cheat you're an idiot that's not trying.

This is why I pretty much don't watch any sports at all, it's all fake.

Please show me a 100% roid free champ after the advent and proliferation of roids.

I'll be waiting.

[TravelerKai]

(03-07-2019 09:32 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

I see a limp Lawler as well. Also a choke DOES NOT have to be completed around the neck. There are all sorts of weirdness that professionals can pull off that look magical to normal guys.

He has Lawler in a bulldog choke and it's a blood choke.

My theory is that Lawler went out for like 1 second and doesn't know he did. That can easily happen.

In person, I've seen guys at BJJ tournaments get choked out for a second or two and then pop up like nothing happened and argue with the ref about it.

Honestly, everyone is saying Lawler looked great, but he couldn't finish no-hands Askren with a vicious ground and pound? He's not gonna be able to Tee off on any else in the division like that. He will get countered punched hard for that sort of bellicosity.

His attack and body slam looked beautiful but it ultimately was a waste of energy. I suspect his days are numbered against the rest of the WW division if he couldn't beat a pure wrestler with the number of strikes he was launching.

A blood choke basically means that 1 or both of the carotid arteries in the neck got closed off. This cuts off blood flow (oxygen) to the brain. No oxygen, no ability to think clearly. In the video he certainly had a 100% close off on the right carotid artery and quite possibly a partial windpipe close.

Strong Greco Roman and Freestyle wrestlers give the tightest bulldog chokes in the business. Ben Askren is certainly in that realm. Even if he is not doing it technically 100% correct, he is so fucking strong that he can do what we call "Muscle in the Choke". Matt Hughes was so country strong and could do stuff like that too, although he rarely did. Randy Couture or Chael Sonnen are other examples.

Wrestlers that are so strong they can muscle in poor technique chokes are very dangerous because they can close off all the other veins pumping blood to your head, that in effect, it was alot like they closed both carotid arteries. Also, those kinds of guys damage your nerves in your neck because they squeeze so damn hard, that it was like having a Chinese Martial Artist that has mastered pressure points, meridians, etc. stab several critical areas all at once. Some wrestlers are so technically poor at rear naked chokes that they instead stretch your spine out forcing you to tap even though you were not choking.

A wrestler turned MMA fighter or Submission Wrestler can be VERY dangerous in the right situations. Even BJJ guys have to be careful not to get caught in crushes, awkward chokes, and bad pins. Happens ALL the time.

Show of hands. Who has seen a wrestler put on a shitty looking kimora, but because of the violent way he pushes the guy's arm out, he has no choice but to tap out? Maybe some of you have had it happen to you. I know I have.

[Mr.]

(03-08-2019 01:54 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Strong Greco Roman and Freestyle wrestlers give the tightest bulldog chokes in the business. Ben Askren is certainly in that realm. Even if he is not doing it technically 100% correct, he is so fucking strong that he can do what we call "Muscle in the Choke".

[TravelerKai]

(03-08-2019 11:24 AM)Mr. Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 01:54 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Strong Greco Roman and Freestyle wrestlers give the tightest bulldog chokes in the business. Ben Askren is certainly in that realm. Even if he is not doing it technically 100% correct, he is so fucking strong that he can do what we call "Muscle in the Choke".

COT DAMN!

Cr33pin you gotta change your mind after this. I had no idea that dude could crush melons like that. Ben is a freak.

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

That is terrifying.

[TravelerKai]

(03-08-2019 12:10 PM)Dr Mantis Toboggan Wrote:  

That is terrifying.

It can be.

I used to HATE grappling tournaments way back in the day, when it was not really cage fighting back then but Pancrase/Shooto (the only strikes allowed were slaps) style NAGA-ish stuff, and I would have wrestlers as opponents.

I was doing BJJ and Judo only at the time, and these cornfed fuckers from the midwest and the military were just strong as fuck Greco-Roman/Freestyle wrestlers. Some of them could toss you into the air and would slam you any chance they got. There is nothing more frustrating than applying a lock (arm, triangle, key, etc.) and then the fucker gets up and picks you up while the lock is still on and just smashes you to get loose. Some of them could just use their fingers and hands and literally PEEL your lock OFF their bodies. Just stupid ridiculous strong. Like some Kurt Angle shit.

BJJ/Judo teaches you to stay calm and work diligently, but Wrestling is full power, full speed, non-stop motor running fuck you power until the whistle. Their entire style is predicated on pressure.

I thought when I got my purple belt things were gonna get easier. NAH!

All that did was just show me that I need to do Strength & Conditioning and learn kettlebells. Work on my neck strength and do finger/grip exercises.

Once I got to a certain level on that, then I had to learn how to bait submissions to make them peel out an escape then roll them into another submission until they get a mental fart and get fully locked in for the tap. That's the normal progression for anyone going from purple -> black belt, but still.... it's still an annoyance to deal with in submission grappling and unless someone explains it to you, you will never understand it and may burn out and quit out of frustration.

[Cr33pin]

The only changing of my mind is changing from liking this thread and the views in it to probably not bothering anymore.... The choke debate is one thing and I'm fine with having different opinion on it.... but then to trash Robbie Lawlers performance as weak and claim he wouldn't be able to beat anyone else... and that the slam was nothing more then wasted energy. I'm 100% done

I love you bro's as bros and certainly respect pretty much everything you have ever said in every other thread an will continue to do so.... but in MMA thread......... you're dead to me

[TravelerKai]

Also, some men are just physical freaks of nature.

Dennis Rogers, Mark Henry, Kurt Angle, Eddie Hall, Brian Shaw, Dan Severn, Matt Hughes, Rampage Jackson, Silva, Feydor, James Harrison, Terrell Owens, Saquan Barkely, etc. Of course cannot forget Ben Askren!

Their tendons tightness are way beyond normal men's typical specification. They can perform super human like feats and can do things to other professional men that others cannot do. Just getting into an entanglement with some of these guys I listed could get your limbs ripped out of socket or severely dislocated. Dennis Rogers can pull a persons skin off their arm, I think Dan had similar strength to Dennis too.

As for some of these dudes being on TRT or other possible roids, yeah that does matter a little bit, but me being on TRT does not qualify me to deadlift anywhere near what Eddie Hall or Mark Henry can lift either. I could run augmented on AAS and train everyday my entire life and still not be able to lift even half of what Eddie can lift.

Power is always number one fellas. Always!

[TravelerKai]

(03-08-2019 12:40 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  

The only changing of my mind is changing from liking this thread and the views in it to probably not bothering anymore.... The choke debate is one thing and I'm fine with having different opinion on it.... but then to trash Robbie Lawlers performance as weak and claim he wouldn't be able to beat anyone else... and that the slam was nothing more then wasted energy. I'm 100% done

I love you bro's as bros and certainly respect pretty much everything you have ever said in every other thread an will continue to do so.... but in MMA thread......... you're dead to me

LOOL!

Don't be like that. I do not think Lawler is 100% done for the record. I thought he did okay, just not enough to beat Ben. He certainly is better than most of the young dudes that fight on the free TV shows. He certainly isn't the worst in his division.

I will say that he is definitely past his prime though. Probably should retire within a few years for sure.

[Oberrheiner]

(03-07-2019 09:36 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

Please show me a 100% roid free champ after the advent and proliferation of roids.

Well I would say this is not exactly a roid physique :



I stay open to contrary opinions of course

[Fortis]

You can be skinny and on roids, you can also be fat and on roids. A lot of those super lean distance runners could be on TRT and you'd never know.

Same with fat-as-fuck power lifters.

Being on roids is not an instant recipe for a shredded physique. Fedor was monstrously strong. He could have easily still been on testosterone.

Anyway, I only posted that because Teut claims it's a weak mindset to believe that everyone is cheating in sports and that only the cheaters really win. JJ has been caught many times and he's butchering the competition. DC? never popped once and he's eating losses to JJ like burgers.

I won't go too deep into this, but if there are millions on the line, guys are cheating. If you don't believe that, then I think you guys aren't really reading this forum.

[Trumpian]

I'd disagree that Lawler's performance was weak. Nobody has ever given Ben Askren a beating like that. He took more damage in that fight than his whole career with One FC.

Lawler could still guve anyone in the top 10 a bad day in the office.

[Fortis]

Cr33pin, of course it's nothing personal. You know it ain't like that.

Lawler is still decent but I think his best days are way, way over.

Askren is pretty much a pure wrestler. He has 0 hands. Lawler has great takedown defense and he's a way better striker and he was unable to put down Askren despite landing some "big" hits on him. Lawler should have been able to finish Askren but I think he's just weak now.

That slam absolutely was wasted energy. I'm sorry but it was. He would have been better off keeping Askren standing and landing at will like he was doing. Pcking up and slamming a wrestler of askren's caliber is just giving the dude time to rest. He's too hardened from years of rolling around on mats to get seriously damaged from that. It was pretty, though. I will admit that much.

I'm of the opinion that Lawler only was able to even do any of that because Askren has no hands. If he had been fighting someone with some stand up I think he would have gotten himself TKO'd fast. He is just not as strong as he used to be.

It's easy to look good when your opponent has a big hole in their defense but I don't see what was so amazing about Lawler's performance when he was literally controlling the fight and landing shots at will and was unable to finish someone.

Of course, you could just say Askren is that good, but I think we also need to admit that Lawler needs to retire soon.

[Trumpian]

Askren himself said that slam nearly knocked him out. The only reason Lawler was able to land that ground and pound on Askren (whos the G&P king) was because he was dazed from that slam.

Lawler has taken an ungodly amount of punishment during his career, but some people are just built differently. Hes still a terminator.

[Fortis]

Askren could be being polite. Fighters say things like that all the time. Just like Lawler says he was not out from the bulldog choke. You can go out for a second and not even know it. The way his hand went limp is too suspect. Everyone keeps saying it was him trying to conserve energy as he waited out the choke, but I don't see it.

Also, knowing that Lawler is an amazing G&P fighter only further reinforces my claim that he really isn't "back." If he was really as good as everyone keeps saying he was that night, he would have finished Askren. He had every advantage going for him and then he still got put out. Tried to maul

He looks good if you just look at the fact that he was moving forward the entire time, but when you step back and think about it, all that aggression should have been more than enough to put away a guy with no stand-up game, but it wasn't. I think he's lost something these past few years and it shows.

He's officially gatekeeper status to me, like Jacare.

[Oberrheiner]

(03-08-2019 11:16 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

You can be skinny and on roids, you can also be fat and on roids. A lot of those super lean distance runners could be on TRT and you'd never know.

Same with fat-as-fuck power lifters.

Being on roids is not an instant recipe for a shredded physique. Fedor was monstrously strong. He could have easily still been on testosterone.

Sure, you can look like anything on roids.
However when you are a world-level athlete, and train daily, and are on roids, I don't see how you get or keep a worse-than-dad bod.

Doesn't mean he doesn't do other things of course.
Konstantinov had a couple videos where we talked about what they did and it was pretty crazy honestly (bloodletting, plasmapharesis, etc).

[Wutang]

Been hearing rumors of Conor being investigated for rape for a few months but there wasn't any sort of official news story, just TMZ type stuff and speculation on forums. Now a MSM outlet has dropped a story about it

[url=https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1110610539196096512][/url]

[Wutang]

Brazilian amateur MMA fighter punches guy who is whacking off to her during her beach photoshoot

https://nypost.com/2019/04/19/mma-fighte...NYPTwitter

Quote:

The 27-year-old was taking part in a swimwear photo shoot where a male individual is claimed to have performed a sex act in Rio de Janeiro.

The Brazilian fighter has stated that the person in question, named in reports as Josenei Viana Ferreira, 26, began masturbating in front of her and an unnamed friend.

Vieira — a specialist in Muay Thai and Jiu-Jitsu — decided to take action after the man refused to speak to her about what he was doing.

“When I looked over there he had his shorts down and was standing on a path where people pass all the time, including children,” Vieira said. “He was visibly erect, making sounds and moaning.”