[Mace]

Just finished Day Bang. Agree with much of what Roosh has to say, and I've been using much of the principles implicitly doing day game. Good on Roosh for putting this down on paper.

However, there is very little on teasing/flirting/romantic intent.

Here is something another respectable day game lothario wrote about establishing a "romantic connection" during day game:

Quote:

Good question. Whether you are a womanizer or a respectable guy it all boils down to the same thing.

In terms of the girl always seeming too busy but still talking to you…Those are called the ‘maybe’ girls.

This is the problem with ‘maybe’ girls. They are time wasters. It has nothing to do with them respecting you. It has to do with them not having a ‘romantic connection’ with you before exchanging numbers. Assuming that she is not in your social circle, the likelihood of a ‘maybe’ girl deciding to move forward with you after exchanging numbers is extremely low. That’s why people who play the numbers game have low percentages of success while doing stranger approaching. They collect many phone numbers from the ‘maybe’ girls. Naturally she is never too sure about whether she wants to meet a stranger or guy she doesn’t really know and it rarely leads to anything romanic.

What I teach in The Domino Effect is about getting the ‘maybe’ girls to ‘yes’ girls in the initial interaction BEFORE parting ways and exchanging numbers.This can work on SOME ‘no’ girls as well if you are advanced in successful stranger approaching. That’s the only way to handle phone problems with girls. Tactics generally do my work as you have experienced. *In some cases where you felt it may of work, it is very possible that there was a romantic connection before even getting on the phone and she was probably already a ‘yes’ girl.

In stranger approaching, or even mild social circles, ‘maybe’ girls will often chose NO. Why? Well if she does not really know you that well the odds are against you. She will choose no in the end.

ENGAGING ‘MAYBE’ GIRLS IS ONLY USEFUL IN FACE-TO-FACE INTERACTIONS. NOT ON THE PHONE.

That’s the beautiful thing about The Domino Effect. It’s about creating a ‘romantic connection’ before parting ways. Therefore, the ‘no’ and ‘maybe’ girls then become ‘yes’ girls. Once you have that romantic connection with her, she will definitely see you again and return your call just like every other woman that is romantically interested in a guy.

This is why you should never aim for her phone number. It is much easier to get a ‘maybe’ girl to be a ‘yes’ girl in a face-to-face interaction than trying to do so on phone. You should always aim for the romantic connection. I do not recommend collecting phone numbers of ‘maybe’ girls. It can get depressing since majority of them will end up wasting your time on the phone.

In my opinion, it is not healthy physiologically for you to keep a ‘maybe’ girl in your mind since you will have to call her and plan on what to text at what time etc. It is actually a low valued thing to do. People who respect them selves will not keep chasing on the phone. It’s not worth it if the return on investment is very low in with ‘maybe’ girls one the phone. I do not mind temporarily persuading a woman face-to-face and dealing with the rejection on the spot. If you think of it, it is not that much of an investment to merely talk to a woman for 5-10 minutes while having fun. At least I will know where I stand with her. I would not have to go home and think about her as if she is an important facet in my life when I do not even know her.

*Obviously there are exceptions when a guy gets lucky with a ‘maybe’ girl on the phone, however, this is not a consistent them in his life or it would never be considered ‘lucky’. In order to get ‘lucky’, you will have to go through the pile of frustrations while learning nothing to improve your odds. I find that to get women of decent quality and beyond consistently, you have to have a consistent system*

I would go as far to say that if you get 10 numbers after creating a romantic connection aka “converted ‘YES’ girls”, you should be able to sleep with at least 6/10 women. I am being modest here. However, if you get 10 numbers from ‘maybe’ girls you will bed probably NONE. Maybe 1/10 once in a blue moon with a lower quality woman or just pure luck. But to get lucky you have to play incredible odds and most people just do not get that lucky so it is not pursuing in that way.

This also explains why I have had success with higher quality woman after learning how to do The Domino Effect. A high quality girl will have many options in her social circle with a bunch of orbiters and will never say yes if its a ‘maybe’. However, when I get a romantic connection with a higher quality woman, she will readily say ‘YES’ since she is now romantically into me and wants it just as much as me. There’s no way around getting a romantic connection before hand in stranger approaching. Without it, you will play an unfair numbers game.

Establishing the ‘romantic connection’ in the first interaction is the cure to all evils.

http://justinwaynepua.com/2011/08/18/jus.../#comments

Much of what he says sounds legit.

Now Roosh's Day Game model is predicated on having an interesting chat and dropping enough bait to get her to ask a personal question. But that does that really mean she truly sees you as a guy she'd bang?

There is very little in Day Bang in the way of establishing a genuine "romantic connection". It's easy to go indirect and have a polite, interesting conversation devoid of all flirty banter, and maybe exchange numbers at the end of it. She sees you as an interesting, harmless guy.

But any guy whose been out there in the field knows this is also a surefire path to a pocket full of flaky numbers. She may see you as a friendly guy, but not a fuck-worthy guy. What incentive is there for her to see you again alone on a date? And sleep with you?

So how does one create a "romantic connection" during day game?

[Giovonny]

This is something I've been working on also. Striking up conversations and getting numbers is the easy part. What I want to get her pussy wet within the first few minutes of meeting her. Here is what I've been experimenting with...

Touching - I banged an 18 year old 2 months ago and I swear to God it was because of how much I touched her in our first interaction. We hugged after a few minutes of talking and after breaking the hug I made a point to rub her back and shoulder. I was agressive and fearless about it. After a minute she kind of pulled away but I could tell she liked it. We texted for a few days and we ended up hanging out about a week later. I know it was the touching!Being sexual - I don't neccasarliy mean talking about sex but rather behaving in a seductive way. Looking at her body, holding her hands, looking into her eyes, saying suggestive stuff like..."We should hang out", "Wanna work out together", "How do you stay in such great shape", etc. This is higher risk, but higher reward type of approaching.

Insta-date - Do this whenever possible. Usually what works for me is saying..."Wanna go get some coffee or something". I met a Czech girl earlier this year outside the grocery store. I opened her with "cool jacket". After 5 minutes of chatting, I suggested going to the nearby Starbucks, after 30 minutes at Starbucks, I suggested going to see my brand new condo. She had her shirt off on my couch within 2 hours of meeting. always go for the insta-date.

Find common ground - The more stuff you have in common, the faster you can built comfort. Make a connection with her. Lie if you have to. She has to invest emotionally into the conversation. She has to remember you when you call. You want her checking her phone and anticipating your call. Or, better yet, maybe she will text/call you first.

Humor - I think the more she laughs, the better the chance of her panties coming off.

Demonstrate value - Act like a guy who gets girls and gets what he wants. Act like she is getting a rare opputunity to hang with a highly sought after man. Don't just be a nice guy who wants to chat. Push the limits a little and see what happens.

The more of these things you can combine the better.

[Giovonny]

(10-26-2011 11:53 PM)Mace Wrote:  

Here is something another respectable day game lothario wrote about establishing a "romantic connection" during day game:

Quote:

Good question. Whether you are a womanizer or a respectable guy it all boils down to the same thing.

In terms of the girl always seeming too busy but still talking to you…Those are called the ‘maybe’ girls.

This is the problem with ‘maybe’ girls. They are time wasters. It has nothing to do with them respecting you. It has to do with them not having a ‘romantic connection’ with you before exchanging numbers. Assuming that she is not in your social circle, the likelihood of a ‘maybe’ girl deciding to move forward with you after exchanging numbers is extremely low. That’s why people who play the numbers game have low percentages of success while doing stranger approaching. They collect many phone numbers from the ‘maybe’ girls. Naturally she is never too sure about whether she wants to meet a stranger or guy she doesn’t really know and it rarely leads to anything romanic.

What I teach in The Domino Effect is about getting the ‘maybe’ girls to ‘yes’ girls in the initial interaction BEFORE parting ways and exchanging numbers.This can work on SOME ‘no’ girls as well if you are advanced in successful stranger approaching. That’s the only way to handle phone problems with girls. Tactics generally do my work as you have experienced. *In some cases where you felt it may of work, it is very possible that there was a romantic connection before even getting on the phone and she was probably already a ‘yes’ girl.

In stranger approaching, or even mild social circles, ‘maybe’ girls will often chose NO. Why? Well if she does not really know you that well the odds are against you. She will choose no in the end.

ENGAGING ‘MAYBE’ GIRLS IS ONLY USEFUL IN FACE-TO-FACE INTERACTIONS. NOT ON THE PHONE.

That’s the beautiful thing about The Domino Effect. It’s about creating a ‘romantic connection’ before parting ways. Therefore, the ‘no’ and ‘maybe’ girls then become ‘yes’ girls. Once you have that romantic connection with her, she will definitely see you again and return your call just like every other woman that is romantically interested in a guy.

This is why you should never aim for her phone number. It is much easier to get a ‘maybe’ girl to be a ‘yes’ girl in a face-to-face interaction than trying to do so on phone. You should always aim for the romantic connection. I do not recommend collecting phone numbers of ‘maybe’ girls. It can get depressing since majority of them will end up wasting your time on the phone.

In my opinion, it is not healthy physiologically for you to keep a ‘maybe’ girl in your mind since you will have to call her and plan on what to text at what time etc. It is actually a low valued thing to do. People who respect them selves will not keep chasing on the phone. It’s not worth it if the return on investment is very low in with ‘maybe’ girls one the phone. I do not mind temporarily persuading a woman face-to-face and dealing with the rejection on the spot. If you think of it, it is not that much of an investment to merely talk to a woman for 5-10 minutes while having fun. At least I will know where I stand with her. I would not have to go home and think about her as if she is an important facet in my life when I do not even know her.

*Obviously there are exceptions when a guy gets lucky with a ‘maybe’ girl on the phone, however, this is not a consistent them in his life or it would never be considered ‘lucky’. In order to get ‘lucky’, you will have to go through the pile of frustrations while learning nothing to improve your odds. I find that to get women of decent quality and beyond consistently, you have to have a consistent system*

I would go as far to say that if you get 10 numbers after creating a romantic connection aka “converted ‘YES’ girls”, you should be able to sleep with at least 6/10 women. I am being modest here. However, if you get 10 numbers from ‘maybe’ girls you will bed probably NONE. Maybe 1/10 once in a blue moon with a lower quality woman or just pure luck. But to get lucky you have to play incredible odds and most people just do not get that lucky so it is not pursuing in that way.

This also explains why I have had success with higher quality woman after learning how to do The Domino Effect. A high quality girl will have many options in her social circle with a bunch of orbiters and will never say yes if its a ‘maybe’. However, when I get a romantic connection with a higher quality woman, she will readily say ‘YES’ since she is now romantically into me and wants it just as much as me. There’s no way around getting a romantic connection before hand in stranger approaching. Without it, you will play an unfair numbers game.

Establishing the ‘romantic connection’ in the first interaction is the cure to all evils.

http://justinwaynepua.com/2011/08/18/jus.../#comments

Mace,

Who wrote this? Justin Wayne? I would like to know what the author is this says about creating a romantic connection during day game...???

[XXL]

(10-26-2011 11:53 PM)Mace Wrote:  

It's easy to go indirect and have a polite, interesting conversation devoid of all flirty banter, and maybe exchange numbers at the end of it. She sees you as an interesting, harmless guy.

But any guy whose been out there in the field knows this is also a surefire path to a pocket full of flaky numbers. She may see you as a friendly guy, but not a fuck-worthy guy. What incentive is there for her to see you again alone on a date? And sleep with you?

and that's the problem right there. going in all indirect/interesting/intriguing and shit makes a guy soo harmless and asexual and almost gay like. when there is no sexual tension at all the whole thing gets really weird with time. the "why" is not clear so she has no idea what he wants from her. to me talking to the girl i really want without her knowing why i talk to her i kiss of death. even if in the moment i chat up with something situational spontaneous or something indirect so to speak i know i HAVE TO express my interest in her asap (if i want her).

and starting indirectly can be hard especially when nothing really hooks initially and it feels like the floor drops out and i'm falling down trying to grab something i can hold onto : )) like i talk talk talk shit still nothing talk talk talk and then something hits and we got this hook point.

so.. in that situation when the approach is spontaneous kind of by accident or just whatever with not expressing his interest honestly.. from my experience it's best to express your intent as soon as it hooks or when i get curious about her or when i hear/see something in her that i dig in a woman. so slowly but surely you switch from friend-friend to man-woman communication. interaction gets charged with sexual tension between both of you so now she sees there's a man in her presence interested in her SOUL basically hahahahaha. yes it's that romantic and dramatic for them. cause let's look what happens here. you start conversation very casual and non threatening. therefore she knows you're just social and not interested in her before sexually from the get go. you talk, she's cool, she grabs you full attention, you get interested, you express sexual interest now, you escalate. so it gradually grows and grows to the point when you're horny. it's very fucking smooth. so as for establishing a romantic connection that's how it's done IMO. one condition: good conversational skills.

guys who can't pull it off usually are the ones who're not comfortable with their sexuality and man-woman dynamic. it's all about subcommunication/subtext. it always comes through somehow. so even though initially it's just asexual fluffing being comfortable in your own skin sends the message that you are sexual and the way it manifests is by nonverbals.


after all i see two main ways of interaction:

FAST.. initiate expressing your interest from the start > screen > focus on receptive ones > contact/intimacy
SLOW.. initiate casually > random conversation > something hooks > fun conversation > you appreciate her > you express your interest > you escalate > contact/intimacy

the fast way saves time and hooks better IMO

[OlympusSquared]

I think the beauty with Roosh's strategy is that it serves primarily as a litmus test to see if there is any initial interest in the girl even having a real conversation with you in the first place.

In my experience most girls that you meet during the day (coffee shops are my main mo) are busy and not neccesarily in social/flirting mode. Secondly, in the two big cities I've operated in, there are just not that many solid placces for day game, so I tend to frequent only a handfull of places.

By keeping it indirect at first and gauging her intial response you at least avoid getting shot down in a public place. If she doesn't show interest in having a conversation, who cares? If she does, try to escalate the encounter as much as possible given her demeanor and the situation you are in. For instance, touching the girl could be appropriate in some situtations depending on the type of girl you talking to and the actaul physical environment where the interaction occurs.

My goal when talking to a girl I'm interested in is to burn her encounter with me into her brain. Its probably not that often that most girls meet genuinely interesting and affable men, if you can display those qualities and she seems engaged, go for the number. If your at least reasonably attractive and she's open to meeting someone new, this should be enough for reasonable response rates.

[Giovonny]

(10-29-2011 06:30 AM)XXL Wrote:  

...slowly but surely you switch from friend-friend to man-woman communication. interaction gets charged with sexual tension between both of you so now she sees there's a man in her presence interested in her SOUL basically hahahahaha. yes it's that romantic and dramatic for them...

...guys who can't pull it off usually are the ones who're not comfortable with their sexuality and man-woman dynamic. it's all about subcommunication/subtext. it always comes through somehow. so even though initially it's just asexual fluffing being comfortable in your own skin sends the message that you are sexual and the way it manifests is by nonverbals...

...it's very fucking smooth. so as for establishing a romantic connection that's how it's done IMO. one condition: good conversational skills..


after all i see two main ways of interaction:

FAST.. initiate expressing your interest from the start > screen > focus on receptive ones > contact/intimacy
SLOW.. initiate casually > random conversation > something hooks > fun conversation > you appreciate her > you express your interest > you escalate > contact/intimacy

the fast way saves time and hooks better IMO

I more or less agree with what you've said. I like to express my intent pretty early in the approach. I like to be real flirty and sexualize the interaction. Its fun for me. Its entertaining. I do it this way because I want to filter out girls who are not DTF. I probably lose some girls that I might have a chance with if I went more indirect but I don't care. I really enjoy the way I'm doing it now. I don't ever say..."hey wanna fuck", I'm way more subtle then that, but I do like to push the boundries and escalate quickly if I can.

I predict that Roosh will move more in the direction of the "direct approach" in the near future. Once you've mastered the indirect approach, and its easy to get numbers, dates, and bangs, I think the only thing to do next, is try to mater the direct route.

[XXL]

(10-31-2011 03:48 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

I more or less agree with what you've said. I like to express my intent pretty early in the approach. I like to be real flirty and sexualize the interaction. Its fun for me. Its entertaining. I do it this way because I want to filter out girls who are not DTF.

yes. that's exactly my way of doing things. there is more tension in the interaction, the first impression is super strong and feel more like a man basically just unapologetically doing what the fuck you want. one big key to this is strong frame aka being able to hold the tension and deal with it properly cause now your balls are on the line. it's like 'all eyes on you' instantly like you're playing leading role in a movie or something and people watch you and see every little weakness. and of course the whole thing can be done really subtle (like deep eye contact or stepping up a bit closer) but still the message is clear and we both know what's up.

(10-31-2011 03:48 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

I probably lose some girls that I might have a chance with if I went more indirect but I don't care. I really enjoy the way I'm doing it now.

well i've realised that even when i would go all indirect safe and casual this wouldn't help me get better results. i know that if she doesn't like me being direct/honest/straightforward then we will not mesh well after all. cause it's not only about approach but it manifests in every step. i like to grab girls dominate them pin to the all pull hair and all that fun stuff so my approach is just preview of what's coming up later. like a movie trailer so if she doesn't even like the movie trailer (approach) then i know most probably she will not enjoy the whole movie (me) later.

so basically 1) it's awesome screening tool and saves time so much and 2) when it hooks it hooks super solid. the tone is set we both know what's up there's no ambiguity. as tim says.. you're dangerous from the word 'hey'.

[Giovonny]

(11-01-2011 04:05 AM)XXL Wrote:  

there is more tension in the interaction, the first impression is super strong and feel more like a man basically just unapologetically doing what the fuck you want. one big key to this is strong frame aka being able to hold the tension and deal with it properly cause now your balls are on the line. it's like 'all eyes on you' instantly like you're playing leading role in a movie or something and people watch you and see every little weakness. and of course the whole thing can be done really subtle (like deep eye contact or stepping up a bit closer) but still the message is clear and we both know what's up.

I love this paragraph. I agree 100%.

(11-01-2011 04:05 AM)XXL Wrote:  

so basically
1) it's awesome screening tool and saves time so much and 2) when it hooks it hooks super solid. the tone is set we both know what's up there's no ambiguity.

We operate the same way. Direct and unapologetic. If she likes it, she likes it. If she doesn't, she doesn't.