[Samseau]

(01-30-2012 01:05 AM)CJ Wrote:  

(01-27-2012 02:30 PM)TheAntiWhiteKnight138 Wrote:  

Update: Said friend has a SERIOUS case of oneitis. He's been dating this girl for 6-7 months and is now planning to propose. Tough blow, and even tougher to know how miserable he inevitably will become 5-10 yrs down the road. Pour some out for wasted talent......

Again, speaking from experience, you just gotta let this one go. Your buddy is down for the count, just 'be happy for him' and do your own thing. Years from now, when he's married to this chick, they have kids, and he's stuck he'll mention in passing how he envies your life. You'll just have to laugh then and tell him you know.

IF they get married.


I just had a buddy of mine call me up after not talking to me for MONTHS... he proposed to his oneitis and she said "She didn't believe in the concept of marriage." He was so in love with her, even though I told him she was a hot bitch cunt worthless gold-digging control-freak whore, that he would tell me "I have my views, you have yours. Okay?"

Now he's single, gameless, and calls to let know. I tell him she did him a favor by not marrying, but he's just so stupid he actually believes that she actually did not want to get married.


When a man finds a girl and thinks "She's the one!", he immediately starts acting beta which then starts to lower a girl's interest level. The girl then doesn't want to get married to a man who's beta. So by trying to get married to a girl, a man inevitably fails to get her.

The only surefire way to get married is to hold out until she asks you to get married. If you, as the man, push for marriage, she'll probably decline.


Of course, why any self-respecting man would want to get married in today's terms is beyond me, but the fact that some guys think pursuing marriage will actually get them a good marriage shows how clueless they really are.

[Sphinx2]

Looks like he's a lost cause. Should be a fun bachelor party though.

[Raoul]

I used to roll with wingmen, but now I prefer rolling dolo all the time. Wingmen are nothing but trouble. Aaron Sleazy is right.

Quote:

Your Wingman Is Nothing But Trouble

One of the most prevalent concepts within the seduction community is that you should not go out alone, but instead enlist the services of a “wing man,” a guy that assists you in your attempts at seducing women. According to the theory, you walk up to a girl and deliver your lines, and your wingman comes in to give you props and make you look better in front of the girl. It is also often said that a wingman is required if you want to pull a girl that is out with a girlfriend. As can often be observed, beautiful women frequently come in tow with less good-looking friends. Your wingman can then take care of that problem and “take one for the team.”

For plenty of reasons, however, life is better without a wingman. In the following, I will discuss some problems.

“I’m sorry, I can’t leave my friends.”
Girls use a line like this, not because they can’t leave their friends, but simply because they are not interested. I’m sorry to break the news to you, but a girl making such excuses simply wants to let you down softly. The average guy, however, in order to protect his fragile ego, might think instead, “Now if I only had somebody with me who could entertain her friends, then I would get her.” But do you honestly think she would say the same to George Clooney or Brad Pitt ? “Sorry, Brad, I’d love it if you massaged my back, but I’ve got to take care of my friends. But give me your number instead.” Life doesn’t really work this way.

As I got better and better at the game, I heard fewer and fewer excuses. One of the most interesting instances was when I met a girl who claimed that she could not leave with me because one of her friends was staying at her place. In this case, it was a genuine problem that she needed to get solved. I simply asked her whether she was with her. Since she was, I told her to give her the key. She did and then we left. Within ten minutes, we were on the way back to my flat.

The other reason that is often cited as an advantage of going out with a wingman is that he can “take one for the team,” meaning that you get the more attractive girl while he does you a favor by engaging the other one. In all seriousness, it takes someone with rather low standards or downright masochistic tendencies to be willing to engage in such behavior. If this happens, then you could have gotten the hotter girl anyway. “Cock blocking” only goes so far, and plenty of girls will gladly leave their girlfriends if they really want to hook up with you.

Problem Cases
Now that the main justifications for enduring the presence of wingmen have been dealt with, let’s consider why else they are much more of a liability than anything else. As I have found, theory clashes with practice more often than not.

I almost always go out alone, and part of the reason for my rapid development and my ability to seduce women within time spans that are nearly unheard of in the seduction community ... often less than ten minutes from meet to sex ... was my reliance on my own abilities. I occasionally attempted picking up girls together with friends, and it was not always a failure, but I always felt less efficient. Matters of efficiency aside, here are some problems which occur over and over, and which will only hold you back.

Problem Case 1: Your Wingman’s Game Is Worse Than Yours
If you escalate on one girl and your wingLook up this term on the other, there will be a point where the girl checks up on her friend. For instance, if she is already rubbing your crotch and begging for it while your wingLook up this term is playing “fuck, marry, kill” with the other girl, she will most often just leave. The reasons are manifold, and they don’t really matter, but let’s just list two: She could think that her friend doesn’t like your wingLook up this term (because she is not physically engaging him), or she may feel like a “slut” for making out with you so quickly while her girlfriend is still reserved. On your own, you would not have had any problem at all. Her friend would realize your girl likes you and leave, or get told to leave. In the end, it’s all the same because you will get laid either way.

On a side note, a similar problem occurs if you attempt to pull two girls on your own and you escalate too quickly on one of them. She checks up on her friend, and because she realizes that she is less turned on or less willing to play, your threesome will only take place in your head.

Problem Case 2: Your Wingman Looks Better Than You
One of my friends in London has the looks of a male model and a sense of style that is almost eerie. In fact, these days he works as a fashion consultant. When I am out with him and merely talking to a girl that is clearly interested in me, touching me all over and giggling at my dumbest jokes, he simply has to roll up, throw his arm around my shoulder, put on his Tom Cruise smile and chat with me for a bit, and within seconds that girl will be all over him.

In the best possible case she will ask me, “Oh my God, who is this guy ?” and in the worst she will stretch out her hand and introduce herself or just hug him, while I will be quickly forgotten. After all, looks do matter, and if your task is to compete with a guy that looks like a Greek god, the best game in the world won’t help you. His motives were honest, and we are still very good friends. I mean, what is he supposed to do if he is just that good looking ?

On the plus side, he motivated me to figure out how to escalate as quickly as possible. Once I am making out with a girl, his charms are far less dangerous to my game. Yet, if you go out with a guy against whom you pale in comparison, you might as well just stay at home.

Problem Case 3: Your Wingman Doesn’t Look Good
This is probably a much bigger issue for people who are willing to meet up with “wings” from the Internet. The few times I have tried when I was starting out in the game, I was often more than slightly shocked at some people’s sense of fashion.

So, what happens if you have learned your lesson and improved your appearance as far as you could ... and go out with a guy who is wearing clothes that don’t suit him at all ? He will make you look like a dork. You become guilty by association. It is that simple. The only way to turn this to your advantage is if he approaches a group of girls and you come in while they don’t realize that he is with you. This is more of a theoretical case, though, because if this is an idea you want to play around with, you can just wait for any dork to approach a group of girls and then take over the group.

Problem case 4: Attempting to Steal SetLook up this terms
Especially among less advanced members of the community, there seems to be a tendency for people just to want to leech off of you. They are hoping you are going to approach groups of girls so that they can sweep in when they see an opening. Because they lack calibration, they will often ruin the chance for you as well. If someone does something like that to you even once, your best bet is to just cut them off. Delete their number from your phone.

Admittedly, some of those problem cases can be dealt with preemptively by agreeing on a number of rules. But even if you do that, you still have much less of an advantage than if you are out alone. Even worse, once you have reached a certain level of skill, a wingman can contribute absolutely nothing to your game.

For the more advanced people, I would like to point out some further issues.

Wingmen Limit Your Flexibility
The problem of going out with groups is that you invariably settle for the lowest common denominator. Eventually you go to a place that none of you really likes, but that everybody “kind of agrees with.” On a lesser scale, this problem also haunts you when going out with a wingman, and even if you do go to the place you wanted to go to, after one hour you may find that there is no point in staying in the venue. He may think otherwise.

Often the Wingman is Another Person to Take Care Of
With the exception of the most advanced guys, it generally seems to be the case that you have to take care of your wingman in some respect. Some always follow you around asking for advice. Some actually never stray far from you and hover around you to find out “what you are doing” when you are talking to a girl. Heck, they may even find it important to tell you that they are going to get a drink instead of just getting one. When it comes to clubs, most people simply act somewhat insecure, afraid of being left alone.

They Are of No Help Once You Have Broken the Ice
How good is a wingman once the girl has taken an interest in you ? I would wager that his existence is completely irrelevant. Your girl won’t even notice him. However, there are still plenty of guys around that think they can “assist” you. I have little doubt that some indeed think they help you by joining the conversation. What they in fact do, though, is disturb the dynamics between you and the girl. In the worst possible case, the girl may be concerned that you have left your friend behind and think you are a not a loyal person. As a “lone wolf,” you won’t face any of those problems.

“Bros Before Hos”
This is probably the most annoying concept in the whole seduction community. “Bros before hos” is apparently nothing more than the weak attempt of weaker men to ensure they get some, and not a “code of honor” as is so often claimed. A guy insisting on it is as bad as the cock blocking friend of the girl you are talking to.

Here is why it can’t work in practice: say you go out with two or three other guys, and one of them is simply less competent or has a mediocre presence. All the others could leave with their girls, but won’t because they want to “help a brother out.” Unfortunately, the window of opportunity in which you can leave with a girl invariably gets smaller, and it’s fairly common that if you are out with someone that doesn’t pull his own weight, then you will all leave empty-handed.

Summary
After having discussed a variety of problems that come from going out with wingmen, the question arises: why not simply go out alone ? For me, it is indeed the most plausible option, and my preferred modus operandi. Many guys are afraid to do so, but apparently for the reason that they are insecure.

Some fear that you won’t get into clubs when you are on your own, but the exact opposite is true. In fact, in the trendiest places it is often easier to get in alone, because if you show up with other people and only one doesn’t meet with the approval of the doorman, then all of you will get turned down. Once you are inside the club, girls will not think you are weird when you tell them that you are on your own. More often than not, they will be intrigued and tell you that they wish they had the courage to go out alone as well.

Lastly, there is the wildly held belief that you need “social proof” in a club, and that you will simply look weird if you are alone. Going out alone never prevented me from getting laid. Further, not once has anybody insinuated it was weird for me to be out on my own, and with regards to “social proof,” all I can say is that this concept is at the very least vastly overrated if not completely bogus. Nobody is watching you in the club because everybody is too concerned with themselves. Thus, if you want to get to the next level in your development, you may start to go out alone. It will benefit you in ways you won’t imagine.