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Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?
#26

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

In any case, returning to the initial inquiry, what enduring value did RVF produce? To normal people, it appears to have opened a Pandora's box of mental disease that has required considerable effort to contain. However, RVF has also helped academics understand Misogynist Incels and the Red Pill to Black Pill framework as a framework for individuals to articulate their mental illness in relation to some previously hidden alleged truth.

Autistic spectrum incels attempt to show the veracity of their beliefs by misinterpreting scientific research, online dating datasets, and conducting their own "experiments" to demonstrate that women care primarily about a man's physical appearance. Although some incels continue to pursue plastic surgery, work out ("gym maxxing"), or otherwise attempt to improve their physical appearance, many believe such efforts are futile because inceldom is a societal issue, not an individual one, etc, etc.

I believe that ignorance and bias has its place, and can contribute to the development of truth, critical thinking, and genuine knowledge because it forces you to think outside your normal thought cycles. It's a bit like studying Philosophy. Philosophy is useless in itself. Philosophy is like doing pushups. What’s the point of pushups, so you can do more pushups? Maybe for some. But we can see how this capitalist approach to gain for the sake of being able to gain more is completely ridiculous. So, philosophy is useless. It helps your thinking skill grow and that's it. That is how RVF should be regarded.

The students of today have prioritized the immediate, blind relegation of prejudice to the status of intellectual inferiority, and as a result, they don't have the intellectual firepower to eradicated prejudice through logic and critical thinking as opposed to empty, instinctual bias. This has given rise to the right-wing mentally ill, who claim they are unfairly persecuted and dismissed.

When I initially began warning in 2016 that autistic people posed a grave threat, many people were utterly unaware of autism spectrum illnesses, and nobody made the link. Autism is not a minor disorder. It is not simply a pattern of social eccentricities, as many members of the neurodiversity community believe. Frequently, affected persons exhibit not only major social handicaps, but also a degree of linguistic impairment, issues with information processing, hypersensitivity, and a propensity for sensory overload and weariness. Many of these individuals require intensive psychotherapy and medication. Sensory level delusional activation due to regional overactivation and incoherent patterns across the cerebral cortex, which appear when too many regions of the brain activate concurrently, can have a significant long-term effect. We see this as the autistic Red Pill has been adopted more broadly by far-right and white supremacist groups to describe their own versions of awakenings, conspiracist worldviews that often overlaps with male supremacist positions, such as antifeminism.

To summarize, promoting RVF content as a "beacon of light" is to promote a sad life. RVF content serves as a gateway drug to the Red and ultimately Black Pill. This eventually leads to damnation on Earth. This belief system embraces the Red Pill concept of a society ruled by women, but dismisses individual-level efforts with women, such as learning "games", as foolish, arguing that only societal change has the potential to be beneficial. Black Pill supporters believe that appearances are genetically set and that women chose sexual partners purely on the basis of physical characteristics ("lookism"); hence, it is predetermined whether or not a person will be an incel.

The End
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#27

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

^ I read all of that, and I'm still not sure what the fuck you are trying to say.

They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety- Benjamin Franklin, as if you didn't know...
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#28

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

(01-20-2023, 11:26 AM)roberto Wrote:  ^ I read all of that, and I'm still not sure what the fuck you are trying to say.

This is due to the fact that it is very complex, advanced-level shit that is only accessible to the most knowledgeable and intelligent minds. You appear to be a decent individual, but as much as you'd like forums like this remain unchanged, it's not going to happen. As dude pointed out, eventually they come around to the reasons why things are the way they are and in the absence of an intellectual alpha like myself, this would lead to the emergence of political ideologies and finally a "black pill" by mentally ill mutants.

It's all basic evolutionary biology. 30 years ago the the so-called “seduction” industry develops, an enterprise to sell seminars and media promising to teach men how to seduce or pick up women, leading to these men being called pick-up artists (PUAs).  The first PUA forum, alt.seduction.fast, founded in 1994, facilitated the industry’s expansion to a community subculture. Among the new forums emerging in the 1990s was Alana’s Involuntary Celibacy Project, where the term incel was coined. Founded by a bisexual woman in Toronto, the forum aimed to support people who wanted but lacked romantic relationships. While this forum was not created with a misogynistic ideology in mind, the pickup artist and incel communities shared members who were disappointed with their sexual experience. 

In the mid-2000s, game methods and PUA culture gained prominence in popular culture due to the best-selling 2005 book The Game by journalist Neil Strauss, who immersed himself in PUA culture, and the VH1 reality show The Pick-Up Artist, which premiered in 2007. Also at this time, the so-called Manosphere formed, spearheaded by the three retards Rollo, Roissy, and Roosh. They further expanded on the concept of the sexual Marketplace. According to this framework, every person has a “sexual market value” (SMV) informed by characteristics including, but not limited to: physical looks, fitness, age, wealth, and social class. This leads, they assert, to a distribution of women following the 80/20 rule: 80 percent of women pursue the top 20 percent of men, leaving the bottom 20 percent of women for the remaining 80 percent of men. Most of these ideas were built on a simplified version of evolutionary biology. PUAs suggest men improve their SMV by learning “game” (techniques to seduce women), earning more money, and/or improving their physical appearance through working out. These beliefs also feed red pill philosophy, which “awakens” men to the supposed reality of feminist control.

Beginning around 2016, incel forums like RVF were populated almost exclusively by autistic spectrum handicaps and began to shift from a Red Pill to an increasing “Black Pill” mentality that women choose sexual partners based solely on physical features (“lookism”), so whether or not a person will be an incel is predetermined.  The Black Pill philosophy typically offers only two options for what to do with their new accepted reality: accept their fate as an incel or try to change society to their benefit. Political ideas supported by incels range from concentration camps for women to mandating government-sponsored girlfriends and enforced monogamy to wiping out most of the existing “alpha” men and women. The Santa Barbara perpetrator had his own vision for an ideal society that his manifesto conveys. The specifics of a political agenda are not cohesively developed for the overall movement; however, they see themselves as an oppressed group that can only improve their situation through a total overthrow and restructuring of society. 

To summarize, promoting RVF content as a "beacon of light" is to promote a gateway drug to the Red and ultimately Black Pill. This eventually leads to damnation on Earth. This belief system embraces the Red Pill concept of a society ruled by women, but dismisses individual-level efforts with women, such as learning "games", as foolish, arguing that only societal change has the potential to be beneficial. Black Pill supporters believe that women chose sexual partners purely on the basis of physical characteristics ("lookism"); hence, it is predetermined whether or not a person will be an incel.
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#29

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

These forums are always a victim of their own success. Any good place quickly gets overrun. Amy good info quickly gets coopted by thousands upon thousands of desperate men. Why would anyone share info at this point?

I tried to help a loser zoomer i met on revamped RVF in person. College grad whose parents kicked him out. He couldn’t find a job. He mooched for months and acted like a stubborn brat. Then blamed me for his lack of success. He just didn’t want to do any work.

I’m here for the lolz and to connect with guys who have their Shit together. But there’s too many lazy losers to sift through.
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#30

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

Most dudes view each other as competition. Sad truth. Not worth saving.
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#31

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

Here is an old post that shows a sad collage of Manosphere personalities.

https://captaincapitalism.blogspot.com/2...otype.html

It shows Good-Looking Loser. Yes, he posted some fake videos. Ultimately, he was a muscular personal trainer with social circle connections in L.A. nightclubs. He attended my high school. LOL.

Cernovich - He plea-bargained his rape case, never held a full-time job, and became a conspiracy theorist.

Tom Leykis - Old school radio host with basic advice. Married multiple times.

Free Reed - Curmudeonly old writer and racial provokateur.

Victor Pride and Roosh - Religious nuts.

Stefan Molyneux - Banned all over for racism.

Let me add Roissy (super racist, still on Gab), Scott Adams (cancelled for racism), honorary Ann Coulter (told American-born Nikki Haley to go back to India).
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#32

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

This forum was absolutely worth saving.  It changed my life in a major way, and I have Citron to thank for this.

But, let's say you are a sensitive, weak-willed man.  You haven't approached a girl in over 6 months.  You believe that sex work is real work.  You believe that all women should be believed.  You have a neck beard, or maybe you haven't touched iron in your entire life.

For the type of man described above, you may find that certain ideas here don't accord with your delicate world view.  Perhaps the pixels that form words on your computer screen when you come here that describe racist ideas are just a little bit too much for you.  Maybe the whining about LMS makes you feel bad about yourself.  Or, potentially you find the political discussions a little bit too "problematic" for your discerning tastes.

If you come here and get triggered, it's OK, don't blame yourself.  That would be victim blaming.  Certain people find it psychologically painful and traumatizing to be exposed to ideas that don't perfectly accord to their world view.  In fact, the majority of people throughout human history are this way.  I suppose this could be considered a normal reaction.

For people who fall into the above category, I have some advice for you.  Retreat back to your safe spaces on Facebook, Instagram, and Reddit.  Don't keep it to yourself.  Share your traumatic experiences here with as many people online as possible - this is an integral part to processing the trauma.  Jack off to some gay porn, and return to your lover who pegs you in the ass on a nightly basis.  Allow the feelings of warmth and safety wash over you as the dildo goes in and out of your asshole.  Once you are feeling psychologically safe and secure, just press the "back" button on your internet browser and pretend this place didn't exist.
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#33

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

(11-01-2022, 10:02 PM)citron Wrote:  There's a lot of interesting posts by The Fantasist, who surely was bald & bankrupt.

His top post at that profile link is "Avoiding False Rape Accusations".  He claims authorities took a DNA sample from his urethra.  Bullshit; everyone knows they only need a cheek swab.

Moreover, he wrote:

"If I'd said no you would have raped me anyway wouldn't you!"  Laughing, I said "oh yes of course ... ."

This combination of lying on the forum and odd joking is pretty incriminating.
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#34

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

(04-22-2023, 01:07 PM)Archivist Wrote:  
(11-01-2022, 10:02 PM)citron Wrote:  There's a lot of interesting posts by The Fantasist, who surely was bald & bankrupt.

His top post at that profile link is "Avoiding False Rape Accusations".  He claims authorities took a DNA sample from his urethra.  Bullshit; everyone knows they only need a cheek swab.

Moreover, he wrote:

"If I'd said no you would have raped me anyway wouldn't you!"  Laughing, I said "oh yes of course ... ."

This combination of lying on the forum and odd joking is pretty incriminating.

For some reasons I feel like he's not lying, but who knows...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22920760/
https://www.mha.gov.in/sites/default/fil...2018_0.pdf

They talk about penis swab only if the rape occurred recently, to detect saliva or what not, tho...

Odd joking is fine Wink
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#35

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

(04-22-2023, 04:05 PM)citron Wrote:  [quote pid="1987082" dateline="1682168853"]
His top post at that profile link is "Avoiding False Rape Accusations".  He claims authorities took a DNA sample from his urethra.  Bullshit; they only need a cheek swab.
For some reasons I feel like he's not lying, but who knows...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22920760/
https://www.mha.gov.in/sites/default/fil...2018_0.pdf

They talk about penis swab only if the rape occurred recently, to detect saliva or what not, tho...
[/quote]

The first link mentioned a penis swab to detect female DNA.  If a man denies sex and they find the victim's DNA on his penis, then he is lying.  That is not an a urethral sample.

I am ashamed that I didn't notice this years ago.  That post by The Fantasist was fiction.

(05-02-2012, 11:10 AM)The Fantasist Wrote:  Here is a story of what it's like to be accused by a woman of the heinous crime of rape. ... In 2000 I came out of a club with two friends in the UK. ...  I fell asleep on the sofa. I woke at 7 and ... went into my bedroom to find the girl and my mate awake in my bed. "Jump in" the girl said with a smile. ...
...
a female doctor asked me to lie on the bed as she was going to insert something into my urethra to take a DNA sample. At this point I started crying ( was that beta?), I felt like I was being raped. I started telling the doctor that I was innocent, that she was not touching the penis of a rapist.

The judge spoke and explained that due to the unreliable testimony ... she had no option but to throw the case out before it could be put to a jury.

This reads like a phony Penthouse Forum letter.  I would believe this story if it occured when the victim was blackout drunk at 2:30 a.m.  But I don't believe she woke up at 7:00 a.m. and invited a second stranger into bet.  And the drama about an invasive urethral procedure is completely fabricated.  This coverup makes me suspect something more sinister happened.

It makes me wonder how The Fantasist's other posts might have been sanitized and fictional.
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#36

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

No one even posts here

Where is everyone??
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#37

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

(04-28-2023, 02:17 PM)Rooshwasaloser Wrote:  No one even posts here

Where is everyone??

Good question, even STW is dying.
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#38

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

That's sad man. You really tried but guys just don't care about game or dating anymore. It's not like how it used to be and I don't think it will ever be. Times have changed kids care about online stardom no one will ever do day game like before excitement is just gone I can see it in people eyes they live for the phone and nothing else. And no one wants to read these old articles no attention span for it is quick shorts on YouTube or TIKTOK. Manosphere is so obscure now it is even behind the black pill stuff.
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#39

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

(04-28-2023, 04:50 PM)citron Wrote:  
(04-28-2023, 02:17 PM)Rooshwasaloser Wrote:  No one even posts here
Where is everyone??
Good question, even STW is dying.

What's your take on this bro. Man i miss the old days on roosh forum. Met tons of guys lived crazy times. Glorious era.
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#40

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

Neil Strauss wrote about the "community" of men on USENET and local "lairs". The early RVF had a similar self-improvement culture and meetup camraderie. Citron exemplifies this ethos of doing work to help others by resurrecting this forum.

There was always a scammy commercial element. Ross Jeffries started alt.seduction.fast to market hynotic speed seduction. Despite mediocre results in 1998 (https://rooshvforum.network/thread-22635.html), Mystery charged for seminars in 2001. Roosh started to write a pickup book and sell pickup lines on the web before writing "Bang" at age 27, writing about sleeping with only 5-7 women per year. At least Roosh limited the commercial scammers on the forum.

Instead, the forum was infested with phonies and big baller trolls. Roosh banned discussion of P4P. But that just encouraged exaggeration, with guys reporting sex with dozens of foreign women using no pipelining and no language skills. Then there were guys like Vorkuta/The Fantasist/Mr. Bald lying and probably coercing drunk women. Roosh's bad "macho" writing contributed to this. Roosh faced a marketing conundrum, because he wrote about "numbers game", but needed to sell books. So he exaggerated the difficulty of seducing a willing woman. Unfortunately, his bad writing obscured the difference between seducing a drunk, tipsy women and exploiting drunk/semi-concious/unwilling women.

The problem is that successful guys get women/girlfriends/wives and leave the forum. Even travellers settle down. There were many competing forums: SoSuave, Roissy's comments, Rational Male's comments, Naughty Nomad, Christian McQueen's forum, Swoop The World. They couldn't attain critical mass. Roosh sustained RVF with content and viral hate-click marketing. But it is over now.

I suppose there are a few Incel, MGTOW, and feckless self-pitying Men's Rights forums I might have overlooked. No loss there.
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#41

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

There was always a strong element of fantasy in the forum. Some wanted a magic pick-up line to make any woman sleep with you. Some believe their favorite guru (JMULV) slept with 1,000 women. Others were deadbeat dads pretending to by men's rights advocates (Paul Elam, Mark Minter), and pretending that they were not losers who deserved everything that happened.

Roosh knew this drove traffic. So he allowed the GManifesto to plagiarize a hitman story. He knew that MiXX patronized prostitutes and lived with his mother.

It wasn't just about sex. Many people shilled a "location-independent lifestyle". They pretended you could sell crap on Ebay using a fullfillment center. People believed you could make money as a "copywriter". I know many rich business people, and never heard of a copywriter.

But if you tried to give practical advice, the Walter Mitty's would get hostile. If you said that rapists are bad, they called you a feminist. If you criticized get-rich-quick schemes, they would complain you are ignorant. If you doubted their PUA guru, they would call you a jealous incel.

Then you look at the advice and information. It was rarely about first-world countries, because most of the posters were broke-ass bums who could not afford London, NYC, etc. It was usually third-world countries, often areas notorious for prostitution.
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#42

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

Definitely, times changed. Game has become tough. We must invite Greek Kamaki to revive the forum.
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#43

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

(04-29-2023, 09:24 PM)Archivist Wrote:  There was always a strong element of fantasy in the forum.  Some wanted a magic pick-up line to make any woman sleep with you.  Some believe their favorite guru (JMULV) slept with 1,000 women.  Others were deadbeat dads pretending to by men's rights advocates (Paul Elam, Mark Minter), and pretending that they were not losers who deserved everything that happened.
Roosh knew this drove traffic.  So he allowed the GManifesto to plagiarize a hitman story.  He knew that MiXX patronized prostitutes and lived with his mother.
It wasn't just about sex.  Many people shilled a "location-independent lifestyle".  They pretended you could sell crap on Ebay using a fullfillment center.  People believed you could make money as a "copywriter".  I know many rich business people, and never heard of a copywriter.
But if you tried to give practical advice, the Walter Mitty's would get hostile.  If you said that rapists are bad, they called you a feminist.  If you criticized get-rich-quick schemes, they would complain you are ignorant.  If you doubted their PUA guru, they would call you a jealous incel.
Then you look at the advice and information.  It was rarely about first-world countries, because most of the posters were broke-ass bums who could not afford London, NYC, etc.  It was usually third-world countries, often areas notorious for prostitution.

Great post good job documenting the state of the forum. Definetely an element of fantasy and a lot of naive users probably myself included to a certain extent. Still, i had a lot of doubts about roosh. He always seemed insecure, I never for a second bought into the idea that he's this skillful player. He was a good writer, by good I mean simple, accessible and chooses controversial takes to generate traffic like you said. However, his game was pale lacking any charm. Remember his coffee shop advice of rambling like an old man? I mean that might help a shy autistic man to start talking but there is no way this garbage works without you know being charming, exciting, ect. I showed some of his clips to chicks and they were all turned off immediately. No wonder a lot of these 'players' had to go to eastern Europe to get any success.

A lot of the report of 'notches' read like sex stories for men. Whether they happened or not they stimulated porn lol most were fake like the gmanifesto but for sure some of us were having success which is more likely down to looks, charms, social adjustibily more than any fancy game trick or routine the guy thinks he's running. Most girl didn't even need to be 'gamed' into sex and they certainly don't nowadays as long as you aren't ugly and autistic,
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#44

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

If you hate Roosh so much, why have you included him in your nickname? Are you Deb or Pussy Sniffer  by the way? Very beta, bro. Change your dumb nickname and make positive contributions to help Citron.
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#45

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

(04-30-2023, 02:17 PM)Artique Wrote:  If you hate Roosh so much, why have you included him in your nickname? Are you Deb or Pussy Sniffer  by the way? Very beta, bro. Change your dumb nickname and make positive contributions to help Citron.

The whole forum is named after roosh the loser lmao magine still being stuck in the beta alpha garbage you sound like a true disciple. There is nothing to contribute, game is dead and burried guys like you are autistic fucks trying to find a new cult leader. And yes I want to talk about roosh and his mental illness
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#46

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

Although I don't agree with the direction Roosh took, I am grateful for what he did whilst being a pick-up artist. You sound too weak and butthurt, bro. Just be greatful as well and get over Roosh. Game is still alive, you are dead.
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#47

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

(04-30-2023, 02:08 PM)Rooshwasaloser Wrote:  roosh ... seemed insecure, I never for a second bought into the idea that he's this skillful player. He was a good writer, by good I mean simple, accessible and chooses controversial takes to generate traffic like you said. However, his game was pale lacking any charm. Remember his coffee shop advice of rambling like an old man? I mean that might help a shy autistic man to start talking

Most girls didn't even need to be 'gamed' into sex ... .

There is a dilemma in getting PUA advice.  You don't want a naturally good-looking coach like Brad Pitt.  So there is appeal to the awkward, aspy coach who learned the "secrets".  Think of aspy Ross Jeffries, nerdy magician Mystery, and his short, bald protege Neil Strauss.

In reality, the sexual marketplace works pretty well.  Girl know what they want, and try to get it.  So, it is hard to date substantially above your level.  But it is possible to have negative, repulsive game if you don't don't what women want.  Plenty of rich, fit nerds get nothing.  The "Mystery Method" offered two insights.  First, women want "cool" men who don't want them.  These men are congruent, secure, and comfortable with their identities, and not desperate.  Second, women "shit-" test to see whether men establish boundaries.  Many women seek men who are upper 10% in height, looks, and income.  When they finally get one of those .1% guys, they learn why all the other women rejected him.  LOL.  A worthy man knows this, and doesn't fall for manipulative games.  He just relaxes and plays "hard-to-get" because he knows it is part of the game.

Roosh struggled with writing shallow philosophy and silly parodies of corporate life he didn't understand.  Yes, he was insecure because he could not defend his contradictions, and quickly banned criticism.  But he was sincere when he wrote about his experiences with women.  This resonated with readers.  The problem is that he stubbornly believed in a vision that did not work.  He lived out of a suitcase in industrial shitholes.  He had no steady job, no health insurance, no car, no T.V.  In Ukraine, he had no one-night stands until meeting an Anglophile girlfriend teaching English.  That isn't game!

Remember his preposterous "Where is a pet shop" opener?  Or his "bathroom line" plagiarized from Neil Strauss?  He should have just written "Talk to women and escalate."  If they like you, your words don't matter.  If they don't like you, your words don't matter.
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#48

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

I was in Poznan last May and stayed at Copernicus street. I read somewhere on the internet that Roosh used to live there. Well, in the building he used to live there was a gay flag waving on the second floor. Weird.
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#49

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

(04-30-2023, 04:23 PM)Artique Wrote:  Although I don't agree with the direction Roosh took, I am grateful for what he did whilst being a pick-up artist. You sound too weak and butthurt, bro. Just be greatful  as well and get over Roosh. Game is still alive, you are dead.

I am dead? You are a toxic little child still hanging to childhood delusions of 'game' and idolizing fake players like roosh. What did he do for you? Teach you to ramble at a coffee shop? Get you some 5s lays which you attributed to game but were going to do anyway and probably ran after realizing the toxic little pathetic man behind just like roosh
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#50

Is the RVF Manosphere Worth Saving?

You are mental, bro. You have a nickname with a direct reference to Roosh. That's mental. Man up!
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