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I must admit something
#1

I must admit something

As much as I've learned about the game(on paper), I have not gotten over my fear of approach. The only time I can approach is if I have some obvious indicator that the girl is interested. Maybe she smiles, or I catch her glance at me or gives some other subtle indicator of interest. I admit that rarely comes these days. If I get no IOIs, I have too much fear to approach. That's something I've yet to get over and I'm trying to figure out how to get past that. Growing up, I was always the type of dude that was shy with girls. In my teenage years, I couldn't even get up the courage to talk to a girl even there were IOIs. Well I eventually got the point that I could talk to and lay a girl who was initially interested in me. But my sticking point is being able to make a girl interested who was not initially interested. I'm never going to have success with women and dating if I can't get past this hurdle.
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#2

I must admit something

Most tips that I've heard from pick-up "artitsts" is to try to force your mind to not care. And that's basically the jist of how a lot of these things are taught. If she says no then say fuck her and move on. I understand the idea and the technique, but just to be realistic it's a little tougher for some men to manage. However, that doesn't take away from the fact of that's how it really should be to some degree.

I had the benefit of actually learning from someone. Years ago I had a couple of roommates that were notorious poon hounds and I was able to learn from them. In that setting it becomes easier to acclimate to what's necessary. We would go out as a group somewhere and they were sort of my support system.

We were able to come up with interesting methods to make approaching women more comfortable such as hosting parties at our place. Let me tell you something, talking to women when you're comfortable in your own surrounding is a million times easier than some random public place. Also there's a whole dynamic behind the party at your place but that's a different topic.

Later I tried some techniques to help relieve some of my anxiety. I remember in a speech making course I had taken the instructor recommended using tensing techniques to help relieve tense muscles and anxiety before giving a speech. Some of the excercises include balling up your fists as tightly as you can and holding it. There were some pressing of the finger tips, and tightening of the face techniques as well. Let me tell you that it works. At least for me it did. When you're anxious the body tends to tense up a little bit and you don't feel relaxed. I would do some of the tension techniques beforehand and try to get back into the relaxed state I was in before.

Anyhow, that's just a couple of ways to help ease yourself over the fear of rejection because that's all it is. A guy isn't nervous to ask the Burger King chick for extra pickles because she's not going to tell you no. Though at some point you need to have the epiphany and realize rejection is part of the game, and being able to handle it is key. Once you hit your first success, the next one becomes easier, and easier, and so on.
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#3

I must admit something

I'm not gonna get into that whole "work on your innergame" newage bs, but cold approaching is hard. And the only way you get past it, is to do it. The more pain, the more awkwardness, the better.
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#4

I must admit something

Quote: (08-27-2008 11:32 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

...But my sticking point is being able to make a girl interested who was not initially interested. I'm never going to have success with women and dating if I can't get past this hurdle.

I have no doubt you can get thru this hurdle, anyone who admits to a shortcoming will eventually surpass it. Here's what works for me, but if you try it and it doesn't work, don't worry about it, drop it and try another technique.

First of all it's not a good idea to try and suppress any anxiety. Suppressing anything whether it's anger or sexual desire is never a good thing, and the same thing follows for approach anxiety. The next time you feel approach anxiety, feel it for all it's worth. Don't become so fixated on it that you don't notice anything else, but be "mindful" of the feeling and let it flow thru you and out. Remember this when you try the following game plan.

Start out with at least 1 approach to a woman who isn't showing a single IOI towards you at least once every 3 days. If you increase the number of approaches in the same 3 day period you'll get over this hurdle faster.

Just remember, when learning anything there's always that period of discomfort before you get better and the sooner you face it the sooner you'll get thru it.
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#5

I must admit something

Do you know where this fear is coming from? Is it a case of you've never really approached without ioi's and are nervous about the reaction or you have had very bad experiences from approaching?

I'm going to guess it's the first. (I've had extremely bad responses in my time but that usually encourages me to keep going.)
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#6

I must admit something

Quote: (08-27-2008 10:18 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Do you know where this fear is coming from? Is it a case of you've never really approached without ioi's and are nervous about the reaction or you have had very bad experiences from approaching?

I'm going to guess it's the first. (I've had extremely bad responses in my time but that usually encourages me to keep going.)

I made my first serious non-IOI approach when I was in 11th grade. Keep in mind I'd been painfully shy in my high school years. I think back now on instances where girls that were perfectly bangable were into me but I found every excuse in the world not to like them, to fearful to do anything about it. So anyway I just said that to provide a context. So at a party in 11th grade, there was a girl I really liked. Some of my friends knew her and were pushing me to talk to her. I got up all my nerve and approached by saying I'd seen her at some other parties and thought I'd say hi, we were going to be attending the same high school next year blah blah. I fucked up so badly I was literally tongue tied and stumbling for words. It was so bad I didn't even ask for her number, I just found an excuse to walk away and I saw her talking to her friends and them all laughing. It was awful, like something you'd see in a movie. I think that one traumatizing experience was a downward spiral that I'm not sure has been entirely purged from my subconscious. Even though I've seen god knows how many guys cold approach a woman and walk away with her number, I cannot get up my nerve to do it. I have this fear that as soon as I walk up, and I'm going to have all these awkward pauses and be fumbling for words and look like a dumbass. I get nervous, try to think of something interesting to say to spark a conversation and my mind goes blank. Even when I'm drunk off my ass I can't make myself do it. It's that bad.

The consequence of this is that even though I get some nookie here and there, it's not on my terms. It's not with the women I would WANT to be with. There's nothing more powerful than having the ability to have the women you want. And all my life, I've been letting women decide that for me. Few of which I've been impressed with. I've still not laid the type of girl that would make guys head's turn. I think I'm a decent looking dude, decent sense of style, well-groomed and all that crap. So I've been stuck waiting for IOIs from girls, which virtually never come from anything I'd want, or having to cold approach girls that don't even make eye-contact with me. This shit is tough, dude. I guess I just have to figure out a way to tackle this or I'm either going to be a bachelor for life or end up settling for something I'm not happy with. That's what got me into studying game. I know what to do just fine once the girl is engaged in the conversation and interested. It's sparking the initial attraction which is where my sticking point is.
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#7

I must admit something

Quote: (08-28-2008 12:03 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

"...Even when I'm drunk off my ass I can't make myself do it. It's that bad. "
Wow, sounds like you could use a really good wing.
Have you come up with any ideas to get over this hurdle?
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#8

I must admit something

Quote: (08-28-2008 01:00 PM)duncanidaho Wrote:  

Quote: (08-28-2008 12:03 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

"...Even when I'm drunk off my ass I can't make myself do it. It's that bad. "
Wow, sounds like you could use a really good wing.
Have you come up with any ideas to get over this hurdle?

Well, I'm in sort of a semi-relationship with a girl since early this year so I haven't really worried about it. But I'm not sure how much longer this will last, so I'm preparing myself for the fact that I might have to get back out there again.

Unfortunately, I have NO wings whatsoever. My old wing from back in the day has been married for several years now. Some others that could be wings are in relationships. And the only ones left have no game whatsoever. It's kind of a predicament.
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#9

I must admit something

Quote: (08-28-2008 02:01 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

...Unfortunately, I have NO wings whatsoever. My old wing from back in the day has been married for several years now. Some others that could be wings are in relationships. And the only ones left have no game whatsoever. It's kind of a predicament.

I see the predicament. [Image: sad.gif]
But, I triple dog dare you to use your current girl as social proof to inadvertently help you open one of those serious hot girls you're a little hesitant to approach. [Image: biggrin.gif]
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#10

I must admit something

You could always put some chick on layaway.
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#11

I must admit something

Today was another example of my lack of game stopped me. I went to a small store to buy some something. One of the women that works there was this amazingly hot Latina, about an 8.5 on my scale. Nice face, beautiful ass with a good shape, she wasn't showing cleavage but I could tell she was well-endowed and buoyant under that shirt. She asked, "do you need help with anything?" I told her I'm finding everything fine and thanks. At the checkout counter, she was right there, just me and her. I look down to see if she has a ring on. No ring. I paid for my stuff with a card. She said, "can I see your ID speakeasy(substituting my real name I read on the card)." I gave it to her. The way she said my name might've been flirty, but I'm not sure. I was sitting there trying to think of a way to spark some attraction or say something interesting or funny to start conversation. My mind was COMPLETELY blank. I could think of nothing. Fuck. She hands me my receipt and says thanks and have a nice day. I say thanks and that's it. I walk away pissed at myself for blanking out.

Can you guys think of any canned openers for a hot retail girl type situation? I think what I need to do is just come up with some default generic openers to use in different situations I can fall back on when I'm drawing a blank. This shit today was unacceptable. That was the type of chic I would damn near pay money to bang, and I don't even believe in going to prostitutes.
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#12

I must admit something

better living through chemistry, man; Xanax does wonders for me.
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#13

I must admit something

Quote: (08-28-2008 08:05 PM)Steve Lurkel Wrote:  

better living through chemistry, man; Xanax does wonders for me.

Interesting. So has taking a xanax pill really helped with your game? I'm assuming you were prescribed the pill for some other reason. I mean I can't see someone going to a psychologist asking for xanax so they can get up the nerve to talk to girls. I don't think they'd give it to you for that reason.
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#14

I must admit something

It would help to have a wingman to force you into sets. I've done this for guys where i tell them if they don't approach the girl they are a huge loser and all sorts of abuse. If you get pushed into sets enough you'll have enough positive experiences where doing it on your own just takes a bit more courage. If you have a wingman just tell him you'd like to be pushed hard and i'm sure he will oblige.

Since there does seem to be a fear or rejection element in your situation, my situation would be to have conversations without intent... just asking random questions for directions or help. You will see that girls will be rather polite, and then the next logical step is to continue the conversation. If you can't make the leap then baby steps is the only option.
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#15

I must admit something

I don't like this new age inner game talk, either, but there is definitely a link between a healthy "don't give a shit except about a few important things" attitude to life in general and such an attitude when approaching women. If you get other people's opinion of you in perspective, and get used to asserting yourself confidently and cheerfully in other social situations, and overcome the fear of appearing eccentric or embarrassing yourself somehow, you'll probably find both that day to day life has fewer minor irritations and that you get on better with people. People look up to those who are relatively carefree, uncomplaining and comfortable in their own skin, and certainly women do.
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#16

I must admit something

Quote: (08-28-2008 06:28 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

...Can you guys think of any canned openers for a hot retail girl type situation?

When she's counting change back to you start saying random numbers to try and throw her off. If it does throw her off then stop, smile, and say, "what?"
Whether you start the convo with the above or not, tell her you want her opinion as to what would make a better birthday gift you're thinking of getting for your aunt, either a coach purse or DG sunglasses (you can use any other nice material it doesn't have to be these). Say your aunt has always been your favorite family member, and lately she's been trying to set you up with some of her younger co-workers, but since she's always been there for you you want to get her something nice.
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#17

I must admit something

Quote: (08-28-2008 08:49 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Quote: (08-28-2008 08:05 PM)Steve Lurkel Wrote:  

better living through chemistry, man; Xanax does wonders for me.

Interesting. So has taking a xanax pill really helped with your game? I'm assuming you were prescribed the pill for some other reason. I mean I can't see someone going to a psychologist asking for xanax so they can get up the nerve to talk to girls. I don't think they'd give it to you for that reason.

yeah, I'm much calmer and less anxious after half a pill. If I take the whole thing, I just don't give a shit. Nah, I don't have an Rx, just a hook-up.
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#18

I must admit something

Taking a pill just to talk to women... that would freak me out. I'm not the pill-popping type -- I rarely if ever use any medicines that I wasn't specifically told by a doctor to take. Then again, I do drink... you could fairly ask "what's the difference."

Do wish I had a wing here in Austin. The guys I know here tend to be married, dorky, or both. (Am I the only 20-something guy on the planet who doesn't own a video game console?) On that topic -- one question I get frequently from girls when I'm hanging out by myself is "Where are your friends?" So far I've just answered honestly, "they're all lame married guys, they don't like to hang out." That actually seems to work all right at defusing the issue without seeming totally uncool, but anyone have any snappier replies I could use?
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#19

I must admit something

Quote: (08-30-2008 01:12 PM)zorgon Wrote:  

Taking a pill just to talk to women... that would freak me out. I'm not the pill-popping type -- I rarely if ever use any medicines that I wasn't specifically told by a doctor to take. Then again, I do drink... you could fairly ask "what's the difference."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking it just to talk to women. But once I saw how relaxed I was when it's in my system...well, the proverbial light went off in my head. Heck, I'd love to be "all-natural" but that could take a while. So, in the meantime, it's Chill Pills for me.
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#20

I must admit something

Dude, I seriously have to try one of these and see if it works.
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#21

I must admit something

Quote: (08-30-2008 01:12 PM)zorgon Wrote:  

On that topic -- one question I get frequently from girls when I'm hanging out by myself is "Where are your friends?" So far I've just answered honestly, "they're all lame married guys, they don't like to hang out." That actually seems to work all right at defusing the issue without seeming totally uncool, but anyone have any snappier replies I could use?

Try this:
"Where are your friends?"
"Waiting for me to show up."
"Are they at a club or something?" (Or they'll ask some other question to know specifically where your friends are.)
"Hold on now, I don't know if you're cool enough to hang with my crew and it might get a little awkward if you suddenly show up." Be smiling and friendly sounding with this line, then move onto another thread.

If she asks again where your friends are waiting, and since most of your friends are at home, simply give that bit of information by saying, "they're at the house."
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#22

I must admit something

It's all about letting the mark know you have options. That's the whole point behind the not giving a shit facade. Stay consistent and it'll pay off in the long run.

But to answer a question about what to say to the retail girl. A long time ago my buddy, Beacham, showed me an interesting approach. It was a long investment and I was unsure about it. Basically, it was at some restaraunt and there was this chick working the register. Now a general rule of thumb is to not give your set any hints or indication that you're interested. He pretty much took the opposite approach without being too forward. This was some place he and I frequented so we were there fairly often.

He would just be friendly, and funny, chatting this girl up. He would force a smile on her face and keep the convo short and to the point. He did this for about four days and what exactly he said I don't know. I just know she was giggling a bit and smiling when he was done with her. Then finally on the fifth day he completely blew her off. He would go up to the register and just be like "Hey. Hope you're doing well." then moves on like he has something better to do. Now at first I thought he lost her, but as soon as he came to our table I could see her shooting looks at the back of his head periodically. He was simply grinning like a cheshire cat the whole time.

The next day he comes back again and blows her off. This time when we're about to leave we walk past the register and she flags him down. That was hook, line, and sinker. She's all smiling and asks him why he isn't talking to her anymore and blah, blah. That's when it dawned on me that she loved the attention so much that she started to miss it when he was blowing her off. He keeps the ruse up with a smile and coaxes her back into his web. He fucked her the next day.

I've never tried that one myself and it's the only time I've seen it done that way. I guess it's just another approach.
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