[Polniy_Sostav]

Rocha ; this expression I get it from my wife . I have heard it from one other person too at work.
My wife is Ukrainian and grew up and lived in Ukraine until the age of 25.

Probably she knows less than you....

and anyway I am not even angry at you or don't claim to detain the truth.

I have no idea why you are so angry each time I contest one of your claims or bring something about Ukraine

[Going strong]

Hardly elected, and the new (soon-to-be) Ukrainian president has just asked for... more sanctions against Russia.

https://www.france24.com/en/20190424-ukr...ule-change

So I expect nothing to really change in the Ukraine . As should have been expected: The status quo benefits the oligarchs, so, I'll re-use below my favorite Gif, in honor of old Poroshenko and apparently, the new leader:


^Ukrainian version also valid

[Rocha]

(04-24-2019 06:07 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

Hardly elected, and the new (soon-to-be) Ukrainian president has just asked for... more sanctions against Russia.

https://www.france24.com/en/20190424-ukr...ule-change

So I expect nothing to really change in the Ukraine . As should have been expected: The status quo benefits the oligarchs, so, I'll re-use below my favorite Gif, in honor of old Poroshenko and apparently, the new leader:


^Ukrainian version also valid

Specially for you mon cher )))

Seems these 2 Russian trolls called Macron passing by the elected Ukrainian President and his french translator))) this is hilarious))))

[nomadbrah]

New York Times also notices.

Quote:

Ukraine’s Newly Elected President Is Jewish. So Is Its Prime Minister. Not All Jews There Are Pleased.

nytimes.com/2019/04/24/world/europe/volodomyr-zelensky-ukraine-jewish-president.html

Imagine being so bluepilled that you're being redpilled by the New York Times.

[Pride male]

Democracy is overrated. Does Ukraine have an immigration invasion problem?

[PharaohRa]

Well folks, they don't call the Ukraine the Jewkraine for nothing!

[Feyoder]

Ukraine should be one of the most wealthy nations in europe by supplying Germany and other primarily industrial countries with food.

Instead it is strangled by a relatively infinitesimal small population who will never develop Ukraine because it will reduce their power. So:

Hmm, what to do?

I know, elect a Jew!

[H1N1]

^ Is this the case, or is it the case that Russian and Ukrainian society naturally produces a few strong men, and that the rest of the population is naturally more bovine than might be the case in the west?

Is an Oligarchy, or something like it, perhaps the natural state for the Ukrainian or Russian peoples - at least for the time being?

In my view, these are countries that give themselves naturally to the extreme collection of wealth and power in the hands of a few hyper competent people, for a wide range of reasons. It is interesting to look at the traits all the oligarchs have in common, and equally how different they are from each other in type.

[911]

You have to understand the nature of the current Russian/Ukrainian societies, nearly half the people were purged by the vengeful, tribal Bolsheviks over the last 102 years. This included nearly all their aristocrats, most of the upper and upper middle classes and most pious Christians.

Not only did they cull the best of them, but they also further degraded the social fiber of those left over through full-blown communism and moral degeneracy. What you have today is a shadow of that former society, that is one of the main reasons that cultures like the Ukraine's are still highly vulnerable to the ongoing neoliberal rape that has prevailed in the last 3 decades.

[Rocha]

(04-29-2019 07:11 PM)911 Wrote:  

You have to understand the nature of the current Russian/Ukrainian societies, nearly half the people were purged by the vengeful, tribal Bolsheviks over the last 102 years. This included nearly all their aristocrats, most of the upper and upper middle classes and most pious Christians.

Not only did they cull the best of them, but they also further degraded the social fiber of those left over through full-blown communism and moral degeneracy. What you have today is a shadow of that former society, that is one of the main reasons that cultures like the Ukraine's are still highly vulnerable to the ongoing neoliberal rape that has prevailed in the last 3 decades.

I see this repeated over and over again in this forum, and I still have yet to know from where comes this idea of "moral degeneracy" in the Soviet Union, when for most of it's history the nuclear family was valued and enforced, even in the hard core bolshevik days after the October revolution.

The degeneracy came after the Perestroika, and mainly after the fall of the USSR.

[Feyoder]

(04-29-2019 02:54 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  

^ Is this the case, or is it the case that Russian and Ukrainian society naturally produces a few strong men, and that the rest of the population is naturally more bovine than might be the case in the west?

Is an Oligarchy, or something like it, perhaps the natural state for the Ukrainian or Russian peoples - at least for the time being?

In my view, these are countries that give themselves naturally to the extreme collection of wealth and power in the hands of a few hyper competent people, for a wide range of reasons. It is interesting to look at the traits all the oligarchs have in common, and equally how different they are from each other in type.

Yeah that's the question and it helps people be passive. The answer is that some people love to dominate other people and that the average person does not have this lust or the moral defects that are needed to fulfill it--and that's a good thing.

A good society that isn't purely materialistic, puts God first and where the masses don't vote for the leaders is not like that. Ukraine is still suffering badly from the poison of Bolshevism. I don't think that there is a genetic defect that allows wealth to be horded by so few or the society to be completely infested by the usual parasitic khazar cabal. It's spiritual.

[Heuristics]

(04-29-2019 07:11 PM)911 Wrote:  

You have to understand the nature of the current Russian/Ukrainian societies, nearly half the people were purged by the vengeful, tribal Bolsheviks over the last 102 years. This included nearly all their aristocrats, most of the upper and upper middle classes and most pious Christians.

Not only did they cull the best of them, but they also further degraded the social fiber of those left over through full-blown communism and moral degeneracy. What you have today is a shadow of that former society, that is one of the main reasons that cultures like the Ukraine's are still highly vulnerable to the ongoing neoliberal rape that has prevailed in the last 3 decades.

The situation we witnessed the past hundred years was a system that pumped out blue-pilled people by the millions. You want to control people, and stifle their creativity, rebellion, independence, and free-spiritedness? Make them wait in line for food, and another for medical care, and another long waiting list for them to get an apartment. Shoot people that grow their own crops. And throw people in mental institutions if even question the fact that they have no intrinsic worth in such a system as human beings. Tell them that religion is an opiate (heard that one once from a FSU guy), and give them a small allowance of cigarettes and vodka.

The people that weren't purged, left and never came back. Ironically we're playing call out the Jew today, but many of the Jews that had means left Ukraine a long time ago for where else but the US (Brooklyn--Brighton Beach) and Israel. Other intellectuals that were not Jewish ended up in the US and West. Not to mention many people in Ukraine seek out Poland or even Russia for better conditions. Huge case of braindrain. And huge amounts of corruption and graft happening to rob the Ukranian people of everything they have left.

Picture is related. When you find out both your president and PM are Jewish:

[JStrongbow]

(04-21-2019 12:01 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

Hows it race baiting when pointing out something? Is it a wrong statement of fact? Instead of being an emotional sponge with your post why not challenge it?

Great reply! Couldn't have posted a better one myself

[JStrongbow]

(04-29-2019 07:11 PM)911 Wrote:  

You have to understand the nature of the current Russian/Ukrainian societies, nearly half the people were purged by the vengeful, tribal Bolsheviks over the last 102 years. This included nearly all their aristocrats, most of the upper and upper middle classes and most pious Christians.

Not only did they cull the best of them, but they also further degraded the social fiber of those left over through full-blown communism and moral degeneracy. What you have today is a shadow of that former society, that is one of the main reasons that cultures like the Ukraine's are still highly vulnerable to the ongoing neoliberal rape that has prevailed in the last 3 decades.

Blood starting to Boil!!!!...

[edlefou]

(05-01-2019 03:04 AM)Heuristics Wrote:  

(04-29-2019 07:11 PM)911 Wrote:  

You have to understand the nature of the current Russian/Ukrainian societies, nearly half the people were purged by the vengeful, tribal Bolsheviks over the last 102 years. This included nearly all their aristocrats, most of the upper and upper middle classes and most pious Christians.

Not only did they cull the best of them, but they also further degraded the social fiber of those left over through full-blown communism and moral degeneracy. What you have today is a shadow of that former society, that is one of the main reasons that cultures like the Ukraine's are still highly vulnerable to the ongoing neoliberal rape that has prevailed in the last 3 decades.

The situation we witnessed the past hundred years was a system that pumped out blue-pilled people by the millions. You want to control people, and stifle their creativity, rebellion, independence, and free-spiritedness? Make them wait in line for food, and another for medical care, and another long waiting list for them to get an apartment. Shoot people that grow their own crops. And throw people in mental institutions if even question the fact that they have no intrinsic worth in such a system as human beings. Tell them that religion is an opiate (heard that one once from a FSU guy), and give them a small allowance of cigarettes and vodka.

This is incorrect. The blue-pilled people are the ones that left.

Those who remained could only survive by gaming the system. On the outside they are meek and non-threatening alcoholic degenerates, but they are also extremely sly and crafty and not too bothered about what's right.

These ruthless survivors shaped and shape current Russian/Ukrainian society. Those who couldn't scam and do what it takes didn't survive. 911 is right on this one.

[Heuristics]

I would argue communism blue-pills people, but when shit goes south doing what you can to survive is something that most humans have innate in us. Not necessarily alpha/beta, just normal for most. Contrast that with the people that check out, which, if anything is omega. Just basically checking out of the whole situation rather than fighting to live.

I have met a lot of FSU people that just put blame squarely on others rather than themselves. If you lack the self-awareness to see you're contributing to your own problems, then you truly are hopelessly blue-pill. They blame endlessly their politicians, their social class, their boss, etc. A lot of them blame capitalism, and it's like, "bro, capitalism is what is gonna get you out of this place, or is gonna improve your life."

I would argue the blue pill people are the ones that stayed. It is not alpha to die under political oppression or to starve to death, real talk. Real men see the walls closing in and get the hell out. Sometimes flight is better than fight. And given the bloody dynamic of the Russian civil war, I would have left ASAP. This government from the getgo had no high moral ground to stand on.

[Oberrheiner]

(04-29-2019 08:20 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(04-29-2019 07:11 PM)911 Wrote:  

You have to understand the nature of the current Russian/Ukrainian societies, nearly half the people were purged by the vengeful, tribal Bolsheviks over the last 102 years. This included nearly all their aristocrats, most of the upper and upper middle classes and most pious Christians.

Not only did they cull the best of them, but they also further degraded the social fiber of those left over through full-blown communism and moral degeneracy. What you have today is a shadow of that former society, that is one of the main reasons that cultures like the Ukraine's are still highly vulnerable to the ongoing neoliberal rape that has prevailed in the last 3 decades.

I see this repeated over and over again in this forum, and I still have yet to know from where comes this idea of "moral degeneracy" in the Soviet Union, when for most of it's history the nuclear family was valued and enforced, even in the hard core bolshevik days after the October revolution.

The degeneracy came after the Perestroika, and mainly after the fall of the USSR.

Go talk to people who were sent to the gulag if you can still find some, ask them for what reason and how the society was back in those days.
You might understand then.

[Rocha]

(05-01-2019 02:03 PM)Oberrheiner Wrote:  

(04-29-2019 08:20 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(04-29-2019 07:11 PM)911 Wrote:  

You have to understand the nature of the current Russian/Ukrainian societies, nearly half the people were purged by the vengeful, tribal Bolsheviks over the last 102 years. This included nearly all their aristocrats, most of the upper and upper middle classes and most pious Christians.

Not only did they cull the best of them, but they also further degraded the social fiber of those left over through full-blown communism and moral degeneracy. What you have today is a shadow of that former society, that is one of the main reasons that cultures like the Ukraine's are still highly vulnerable to the ongoing neoliberal rape that has prevailed in the last 3 decades.

I see this repeated over and over again in this forum, and I still have yet to know from where comes this idea of "moral degeneracy" in the Soviet Union, when for most of it's history the nuclear family was valued and enforced, even in the hard core bolshevik days after the October revolution.

The degeneracy came after the Perestroika, and mainly after the fall of the USSR.

Go talk to people who were sent to the gulag if you can still find some, ask them for what reason and how the society was back in those days.
You might understand then.

I was expecting that you could explain how was society back in those days.

[nomadbrah]

Early bolshevik revolution had all kinds of degeneracy. It was squashed by the time of Stalin.

[TigerMandingo]

(04-29-2019 02:54 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  

In my view, these are countries that give themselves naturally to the extreme collection of wealth and power in the hands of a few hyper competent people, for a wide range of reasons. It is interesting to look at the traits all the oligarchs have in common, and equally how different they are from each other in type.

Funnily enough, you've also just described the US perfectly. Enormous concentration of wealth and power with "democracy" being essentially dead. The vast majority of the people being fat, sloppy, and hooked up on an IV of netflix and opioids.

[Heuristics]

(05-01-2019 10:15 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

(04-29-2019 02:54 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  

In my view, these are countries that give themselves naturally to the extreme collection of wealth and power in the hands of a few hyper competent people, for a wide range of reasons. It is interesting to look at the traits all the oligarchs have in common, and equally how different they are from each other in type.

Funnily enough, you've also just described the US perfectly. Enormous concentration of wealth and power with "democracy" being essentially dead. The vast majority of the people being fat, sloppy, and hooked up on an IV of netflix and opioids.

Oh, I thought you were describing yourself.

[Ouroboros]

(04-29-2019 08:20 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(04-29-2019 07:11 PM)911 Wrote:  

You have to understand the nature of the current Russian/Ukrainian societies, nearly half the people were purged by the vengeful, tribal Bolsheviks over the last 102 years. This included nearly all their aristocrats, most of the upper and upper middle classes and most pious Christians.

Not only did they cull the best of them, but they also further degraded the social fiber of those left over through full-blown communism and moral degeneracy. What you have today is a shadow of that former society, that is one of the main reasons that cultures like the Ukraine's are still highly vulnerable to the ongoing neoliberal rape that has prevailed in the last 3 decades.

I see this repeated over and over again in this forum, and I still have yet to know from where comes this idea of "moral degeneracy" in the Soviet Union, when for most of it's history the nuclear family was valued and enforced, even in the hard core bolshevik days after the October revolution.

The degeneracy came after the Perestroika, and mainly after the fall of the USSR.

Two contradictory opinions that are oft-repeated here are (1) socialism/communism destroys family values and causes degeneracy and (2) if you want to find a woman with family values, go to the former Soviet Union, since the former epicentre of global communism apparently produces better wife material than the capitalist West (we also have a datasheet on here for finding a wife in that other former bastion of communism, China).

Not sure how these beliefs can be reconciled...

[H1N1]

(05-02-2019 12:26 AM)Ouroboros Wrote:  

(04-29-2019 08:20 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(04-29-2019 07:11 PM)911 Wrote:  

You have to understand the nature of the current Russian/Ukrainian societies, nearly half the people were purged by the vengeful, tribal Bolsheviks over the last 102 years. This included nearly all their aristocrats, most of the upper and upper middle classes and most pious Christians.

Not only did they cull the best of them, but they also further degraded the social fiber of those left over through full-blown communism and moral degeneracy. What you have today is a shadow of that former society, that is one of the main reasons that cultures like the Ukraine's are still highly vulnerable to the ongoing neoliberal rape that has prevailed in the last 3 decades.

I see this repeated over and over again in this forum, and I still have yet to know from where comes this idea of "moral degeneracy" in the Soviet Union, when for most of it's history the nuclear family was valued and enforced, even in the hard core bolshevik days after the October revolution.

The degeneracy came after the Perestroika, and mainly after the fall of the USSR.

Two contradictory opinions that are oft-repeated here are (1) socialism/communism destroys family values and causes degeneracy and (2) if you want to find a woman with family values, go to the former Soviet Union, since the former epicentre of global communism apparently produces better wife material than the capitalist West (we also have a datasheet on here for finding a wife in that other former bastion of communism, China).

Not sure how these beliefs can be reconciled...

Don't forget the maxim 'all women are like that'.

[edlefou]

(05-01-2019 04:35 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(05-01-2019 02:03 PM)Oberrheiner Wrote:  

(04-29-2019 08:20 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(04-29-2019 07:11 PM)911 Wrote:  

You have to understand the nature of the current Russian/Ukrainian societies, nearly half the people were purged by the vengeful, tribal Bolsheviks over the last 102 years. This included nearly all their aristocrats, most of the upper and upper middle classes and most pious Christians.

Not only did they cull the best of them, but they also further degraded the social fiber of those left over through full-blown communism and moral degeneracy. What you have today is a shadow of that former society, that is one of the main reasons that cultures like the Ukraine's are still highly vulnerable to the ongoing neoliberal rape that has prevailed in the last 3 decades.

I see this repeated over and over again in this forum, and I still have yet to know from where comes this idea of "moral degeneracy" in the Soviet Union, when for most of it's history the nuclear family was valued and enforced, even in the hard core bolshevik days after the October revolution.

The degeneracy came after the Perestroika, and mainly after the fall of the USSR.

Go talk to people who were sent to the gulag if you can still find some, ask them for what reason and how the society was back in those days.
You might understand then.

I was expecting that you could explain how was society back in those days.

In Gulag Archipelago Solzhenitsyn describes how there were high quotas for forced labor camps and how people would be sent off on the slightest pretext (like not clapping enough at the propaganda meetings) or rat out their neighbors to avoid being shipped off themselves (they would also do it if they liked their apartment and wanted to take it over).

After a few decades of that shit you're only left with those who did whatever it takes to survive. This is the moral degeneracy 911 is talking about.

The captors and members of the Party who tortured and sent their comrades to the gulag where they starved and were worked to death are pretty bad too.

Neither of these groups viewed themselves as evil and they had nuclear families. Solzhenitsyn describes how veks (the prisoners) would get engaged to whoever they could, often sight unseen via forbidden secret messages in the camps.

Their progeny make up the current population of Ukraine/Russia. Those who couldn't overcome their moral hangups are buried in unmarked graves around the Siberian gulags and their family lines are extinct.

When a Russian lizard almost effortlessly gets some dude to take her shopping in Mayfair or Dubai it's because those skills have been inculcated and socially refined over the better part of a century.

[Rocha]

(05-02-2019 12:13 PM)edlefou Wrote:  

(05-01-2019 04:35 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(05-01-2019 02:03 PM)Oberrheiner Wrote:  

(04-29-2019 08:20 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(04-29-2019 07:11 PM)911 Wrote:  

You have to understand the nature of the current Russian/Ukrainian societies, nearly half the people were purged by the vengeful, tribal Bolsheviks over the last 102 years. This included nearly all their aristocrats, most of the upper and upper middle classes and most pious Christians.

Not only did they cull the best of them, but they also further degraded the social fiber of those left over through full-blown communism and moral degeneracy. What you have today is a shadow of that former society, that is one of the main reasons that cultures like the Ukraine's are still highly vulnerable to the ongoing neoliberal rape that has prevailed in the last 3 decades.

I see this repeated over and over again in this forum, and I still have yet to know from where comes this idea of "moral degeneracy" in the Soviet Union, when for most of it's history the nuclear family was valued and enforced, even in the hard core bolshevik days after the October revolution.

The degeneracy came after the Perestroika, and mainly after the fall of the USSR.

Go talk to people who were sent to the gulag if you can still find some, ask them for what reason and how the society was back in those days.
You might understand then.

I was expecting that you could explain how was society back in those days.

In Gulag Archipelago Solzhenitsyn describes how there were high quotas for forced labor camps and how people would be sent off on the slightest pretext (like not clapping enough at the propaganda meetings) or rat out their neighbors to avoid being shipped off themselves (they would also do it if they liked their apartment and wanted to take it over).

After a few decades of that shit you're only left with those who did whatever it takes to survive. This is the moral degeneracy 911 is talking about.

The captors and members of the Party who tortured and sent their comrades to the gulag where they starved and were worked to death are pretty bad too.

Neither of these groups viewed themselves as evil and they had nuclear families. Solzhenitsyn describes how veks (the prisoners) would get engaged to whoever they could, often sight unseen via forbidden secret messages in the camps.

Their progeny make up the current population of Ukraine/Russia. Those who couldn't overcome their moral hangups are buried in unmarked graves around the Siberian gulags and their family lines are extinct.

When a Russian lizard almost effortlessly gets some dude to take her shopping in Mayfair or Dubai it's because those skills have been inculcated and socially refined over the better part of a century.

Not sure if that was the moral degeneracy that 911 meant...all I wanted to say is that the Soviet Union was a disciplined dictatorship, and not a Weimar Republic, with open faggotry, pedophilia, etc.

But, where after all things that bad for the regular folk compared to the Czars days with serfdom for peasants (until 1861) and a ruling elite that had everything, as detailed for example in Anna Karenina novel? Or after Perestroika in the 90s when people still struggled more than in the 80s and a bunch of thieves and ruthless oligarchs stealed everything (Berezovski, Patarkashvilli, etc)... ?

I am not a communist or leftie at all...but I think Soviet Union is demonized around here for faults that it did not had.