[kazz]

44 here I really cant find a suitable girl to marry here I have really been trying. Like many of you I did pass up I think 4 I could have married. But I know I would not have been able to be faithful to them and I see this as something i want to be for the right girl.

I am not to worried; something we all have to remember is that we only need to find one just one good one thats it. Its good to be a man and have that extra time.

I have no problem being with someone in their late 20s to mid 30s. I know there are good ones out there because I have had them in the past and let them go. I know most guys are seeking younger ones but nowadays I see this ending badly as girls are so scattered until they are in their mid to late 20s, I mean they are mostly scattered their whole live without a man, but most young girls now are on another planet.

I have seen a few of these threads pop up recently and cannot understand the amount of bad advise, negativity and pessimism on here.

[Dilated]

From an American perspective...

The pessimism precipitates from the lack of quality women here. Girls who are overweight, hostile and difficult, and don’t have a desire to have a family outnumber the remaining by a large margin.

At 38, I only have so many more years to attract a younger woman. I can increase that age gap acceptance perhaps in EE or LatAm, but at what cost? I could retire now in EE/LatAm (living off of investment income) but I would be foregoing big future wealth by leaving the USA.

It would be worth it if I could find a sweet, amenable, more feminine girl who actually wants a family. But, that’s not a guarantee.

The ultimate disappointment would be doing EE/LatAm and finding out the women really aren’t any different.

Tough call. I feel the pull.

[MrLemon]

(05-10-2019 05:48 AM)aeroektar Wrote:  

(05-09-2019 11:36 AM)MrLemon Wrote:  

I've read a lot of posts here but didn't see much talking about how much money you guys are bringing to the table.

Having a family is something men do when they have money to afford a family. Don't kid yourself. Women are marrying you for the meat you can put on the campfire.

Only in the Clown World. 40 years ago men had kids because that's what men did. You found a way to support your family, even if it was one man earning a middle class income. Now everyone buys into what they've been told and thinks they need to make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to raise 3 kids. It's bullshit. I think this is an overstated issue these days, most people don't know how to live within their means anymore, or demand some lavish lifestyle.

Sorry, but with respect: this is nonsense.

Women choose men to marry based on that man's ability to provide for a family. That was true 40 years ago, 400 years ago, and 400,000 years ago.

I was alive 40 years ago. Nobody back then "just had kids". They had kids because the could support kids.

I agree completely that it's bullshit that society has fucked over men's roles as wage earners. I'm not disagreeing at all. Read my other posts where i rant and rave about how fucked up the working world is (until other posters tell me to please shut up.)

But this thread is about "raising a family". I'm reminding you guys who want to get married, that you only get a quality woman to marry you when you can show that woman that you can support your family. Otherwise, you stay single like the millions upon millions of men throughout history who could not get married because they didn't have the dough.

If that means going to the EE, great! But don't just ignore the issue and then whine later here on the board that the world isn't fair. It's true the world isn't fair, but that's the way it is. Your job as a husband is to fight the unfairness of the world for your family.

[robreke]

(04-06-2019 11:19 PM)Elmore Wrote:  

Shit situation, i know. Short story, I'm forty two, wasted my thirties being a player and passing on the girls i should've thought about deepening things with. Frankly I'm jaded and cynical of wider society and by extension game, and my goal is to meet a suitable girl to marry and start a family with, ideally moving to at least a semi-rural location, and living a life as close to nature as humanly possible.

Quite a task. However i am blessed in that i own a property worth approx 275,000USD, and having been living abroad for nearly a decade, and mobile with my work, could conceivably sell up, and buy a rural property for far less abroad. I am going to focus on this beyond all else in my life, as with time being precious, i have no option to procrastinate anymore. As a European and a recently rekindled Christian, i feel it is a moral and spiritual duty at this point.

Is anyone else is a similar position? Or how do single and childless guys feel about the prospect of never having children?

I was in your situation,more or less. Only, I started a little later.

I "wasted" my 30s, at least from a romantic standpoint, married to the wrong woman.

I'll probably write more about my current situation later. Long story short though, I got a divorce when I was about your age with no kids. I knew I always wanted them

After my divorce, I did the playboy lifestyle for several years ( fun times!) Then, last year, I got one of the girls I was seeing, pregnant. While it wasn't planned, as I move past my mid 40s, I'm more happy than not that it's happened and I'll be a father soon.

At 42, I'm not going to say you have "plenty of time" but I will say you don't have to be in a panicked rush either. It sounds like you have a sound plan and you still have time to be selective with dating and finding the right girl. I think focusing in Europe, specifically central and EE, as many here have suggested, is a good idea.

[robreke]

delete

[nomadbrah]

(05-09-2019 04:08 AM)Iconoclast007 Wrote:  

You may want to look at Estonia OP. I think its a great location to find a wife and has high standards and relatively low costs of living. Also corpirate tax is zero. Free healthcare for residents. Cheap organic foods. High concentration of blue eyed blonde wife material. Feminism has not infiltrated too bad here. Very nice intl airport with easy connections to europe. Lots of clean nature.

You could buy a nice small farm in the countryside amongst rolling hills and forests. Deer and moose and boar run free. Brown trout and pike in rivers and lakes. A farmstead with a nice house will run you about 200k

Estonia could very much appeal to you wish to live in a northern european enclave of "your tribe" so to speak.

Im a 36 yr expat from USSA (Texan) . Started coming to Estonia at age 30 and now happily married and 2 beautiful healthy kids.my income is location independant. I made a concious decision to create this reality and escape the feminist imperative run and police state enforced tyrranical USSA.

Family life, here on the Russian Border is damn good if you ask me.!

Great story and good to hear it worked out for you!

Did you encounter any skepticism from the locals towards your intentions or purpose there?

[Kid Twist]

I too wonder how he landed on a particular girl and how long he scoped it out.

[Iconoclast007]

I do encounter skepticism from locals. Ethnic Estonians are quite tribal folks. They accept me and also keep me at arms length. This is a reality of expat life. It takes strong intestinal fortitude to succsessfully expatriate. To combat this I am becoming fluent in Estonian which usually brings my tighter into social circles. I also am involved with organic food and argriculture, combat sports, hunting clubs and network and make friends and form alliances through local, masculine, male centric comraderie. . .

Ive been here going on 6 years. Back and forth and also living nomadicly internationally in Colombia, Mexico, Ukraine etc. The first few years I was a single playboy. Things progressed with plates and my daughter arrived, thus accelerating my marital reality.

I found owning a motorcycle stashed in Estonia and visiting for the baltic summers was an incredible ROI for a young location independant intl playboy. I try to escape to the med for the brutal winters.

[aeroektar]

(05-10-2019 11:46 AM)MrLemon Wrote:  

(05-10-2019 05:48 AM)aeroektar Wrote:  

(05-09-2019 11:36 AM)MrLemon Wrote:  

I've read a lot of posts here but didn't see much talking about how much money you guys are bringing to the table.

Having a family is something men do when they have money to afford a family. Don't kid yourself. Women are marrying you for the meat you can put on the campfire.

Only in the Clown World. 40 years ago men had kids because that's what men did. You found a way to support your family, even if it was one man earning a middle class income. Now everyone buys into what they've been told and thinks they need to make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to raise 3 kids. It's bullshit. I think this is an overstated issue these days, most people don't know how to live within their means anymore, or demand some lavish lifestyle.

Sorry, but with respect: this is nonsense.

Women choose men to marry based on that man's ability to provide for a family. That was true 40 years ago, 400 years ago, and 400,000 years ago.

I was alive 40 years ago. Nobody back then "just had kids". They had kids because the could support kids.

I agree completely that it's bullshit that society has fucked over men's roles as wage earners. I'm not disagreeing at all. Read my other posts where i rant and rave about how fucked up the working world is (until other posters tell me to please shut up.)

But this thread is about "raising a family". I'm reminding you guys who want to get married, that you only get a quality woman to marry you when you can show that woman that you can support your family. Otherwise, you stay single like the millions upon millions of men throughout history who could not get married because they didn't have the dough.

If that means going to the EE, great! But don't just ignore the issue and then whine later here on the board that the world isn't fair. It's true the world isn't fair, but that's the way it is. Your job as a husband is to fight the unfairness of the world for your family.

We aren't in disagreeance, I just took what you said and went off on a bit of a tangent.

Of course a good women worth having kids with isn't going to get hitched with a man who can't support a future family.

All I'm saying is that what's actually needed to raise a family is not the exaggerated numbers put forth by (((whoever the fuck))) intended to scare couples away from having kids.

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

My $0.02 on the subject:

I got married at age 34 and had my son at 47 (we tried for years.. had to go the IVF route due to several issues). Through my 20s I resigned that I would never marry as my experiences were (abbreviated list):

Out of college I was working with older guys who were jealous over the fact I was single. Mind you, I was game-less and rarely dating, so it wasn't my sex life that they were jealous with. Unlike them, I was financially relatively in good shape and could speak my mind freely. The former was in spite of earning a fraction of what these guys were making (the demands of their wives put them deep in debt) and the latter was due to them being married to women with a feminist streak. The married guys overall were all miserable and deep in debt.

I am a nerdy engineer which for younger women puts me well below the 'top 20%' of the male dating pool that women aim for. I also entered the job market during the Clinton "peace dividend" when defense spending cratered and heavy industry got exported overseas. It was a shit job market that didn't pay well. The women who were available were making demands that a 20 something guy make "at least $120k a year" (1990s mind you).

The women friends would hook me up with were financial / emotional disasters. Six figures of student loan and credit card debt and a "walking on eggshells around her" personality. I was on a knife edge financially since every spare nickle I had was going into buying distressed real estate (pre housing bubble days when urban property was dirt cheap) and couldn't risk being attached to a financial boat anchor. This meant I was driving an old car, wearing old clothes, not eating out, and bringing my lunch to work... not exactly emitting an 'aura of wealth'. Plus, try being a right-wing guy around a woman who went through the college feminist NPC factory.. it isn't fun. I am not the person to live my life self censoring and had woman looking at me gape mouth in shock over an opinion I stated.

One job I worked a group from Texas. In that group was one guy who I would describe as happily married. We shared a common interest (international travel) and he gave me the following advice:

"Buy an introductory service (this was 1994, very early world wide web days) like the Cherry Blossoms catalog. Write to a whole bunch of women in countries you plan to visit. In the process of writing, you will figure out which ones you have something in common with. When you arrive in her country, you will have a translator, tour guide, and a "gringo inflation" shield that will stop the locals from tripling prices when they see you are an American." He married one of the women he visited (from Columbia).

I took his advice writing to women all over the world. By 1999, by virtue of putting several $100k through a credit card, I had enough frequent flier miles to go anywhere in the world 1st or business class. My original plan was to head to Chile (skiing). However, Asia was just too damn cheap to ignore (post 1997 Asian financial crisis). So I headed to Thailand. I had one girl who I met via (now defunct) Yahoo Messenger, talking to her twice a day. We met in Bangkok April of 2000. Liked her so much I kept going back to see her. Got married 4 years later in a full Buddhist wedding in Bangkok.

As other posters and the OP pointed out, there are culture clash issues. This wasn't so bad for me because my wife, who is a bit of a black sheep, her whole life wanted to be in the USA. She wanted to become American. So she assimilated quickly. The other positives she brought to the marriage is she had real education (B.S. in economics... no SJW crap), was financially responsible (she already owned a home at age 23), and was trustworthy. The latter is really important as I found so many women in my 20s to be shockingly unreliable in so many aspects.

Having kids late:

If you are a guy who keeps yourself in shape (free weights lifting, watch the carb intake, zinc, and magnesium supplements work well for older guys) then having a kid in your 40s is fine. At this point in my life, I am in a good position to support my kid financially (he will not set foot in the shit public schools here) and frankly, am a lot calmer and wiser than I was when I was say 25. My own parents had kids in their early 20s with no money... it was not a pleasant childhood for my older siblings.

Age is an issue for women. By age 40, the chances of getting a good embryo fall under 5%. As an example: My sister-in-law went into deep "baby mode" after meeting her nephew. She did three rounds of IVF without success. Her eggs were just too old to be viable.

If you want kids, you need a woman under age 35. Ideal "baby making" age range is 17 to 25. Middle and later 30s, you might want to put $$$ for IVF. The 'genetic load' post age 30 goes up and the latest genetic testing can screen out the defective embryos before implantation.

The fact the OP has embraced Christianity might give him a better chance of meeting a quality woman in the right age range. However, I think his best bet will be to go overseas. I did a thought experiment not too long ago: "What would my dating life be like if suddenly I no longer had a wife". Holy shit! What I discovered was not pleasant. The available pool of women was abominable. Granted, I am in an urban area that is deep blue.. but still...

[nomadbrah]

(05-13-2019 07:08 AM)Iconoclast007 Wrote:  

I do encounter skepticism from locals. Ethnic Estonians are quite tribal folks. They accept me and also keep me at arms length. This is a reality of expat life. It takes strong intestinal fortitude to succsessfully expatriate. To combat this I am becoming fluent in Estonian which usually brings my tighter into social circles. I also am involved with organic food and argriculture, combat sports, hunting clubs and network and make friends and form alliances through local, masculine, male centric comraderie. . .

Ive been here going on 6 years. Back and forth and also living nomadicly internationally in Colombia, Mexico, Ukraine etc. The first few years I was a single playboy. Things progressed with plates and my daughter arrived, thus accelerating my marital reality.

I found owning a motorcycle stashed in Estonia and visiting for the baltic summers was an incredible ROI for a young location independant intl playboy. I try to escape to the med for the brutal winters.

Repped you, because I want to hear more.

Your life and lifestyle sound very much like what I want for myself.

If you make a more in depth post, maybe in a thread of itself, then I'd read it with great interest.

[kazz]

This thread inspired me to look up a few things. I found this gem, when a group of Physiologists looked up data and did some brain storming. Groundbreaking stuff here guys.......

"'What Is Different about the Nations that Have Higher Rates of Divorce''
''They have a higher level of economic development. One of the most powerful predictors of the rate of divorce is a country’s gross national income (per capita). In wealthier countries (as measured by gross national income), a greater proportion of people get divorced.

More of their women are in the workforce. Countries with a greater percentage of women (ages 15 and older) in the labor force have higher rates of divorce.

They are more highly educated. Nations with more people enrolled in secondary education have higher divorce rates.

They have lower proportions of Catholics. Nations with proportionately more Catholics have lower rates of divorce. Nations with greater proportions of Muslims also have lower divorce rates, but the results are not always statistically significant.


They are more likely to be part of international organizations and treaties. The authors believe that when nations sign onto international non-governmental organizations and treaties, they are more likely to be influenced by global norms and ideas such as individual rights, the importance of consent, and the freedom to choose one’s own destiny. An example is the Convention to Eliminate All forms of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW). The authors see a country’s ratification of CEDAW as an indication of its “commitment to the cultural principles of individualism and gender equality.” Nations with higher rates of membership in international non-governmental organizations and treaties have higher rates of divorce.'"


Taken from: https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/...love-story

[TorontoRocks]

Very important thread, will be following closely

[Virtual]

Interesting thread and glad I read it. It's important to follow your heart and listen to your gut (mainly true after you're done with your 20's and early 30's). No situation is a paradise and on the contrary, I know plenty of middle aged men who feel stuck in marriages with kids. Lot's of these guys are getting divorced now and seeing them happy and playful is a nice change (even if temporary). If you know your goal, plan it out and execute...no point in wasting anymore time. Best of luck!

[griffinmill]

Let me tell you why. at over 40, it becomes increasingly difficult for you to achieve marriage and kids with a suitable partner.

I am a wedding photographer by trade, and in my business I see a lot of dweebs with beautiful, traditional women. How did they do it? Well, by the time I've met them, which is when they're getting married, they've been together for 10, 12, 15 years. There are a lot of couples I've met who are childhood sweathearts. This is how it's done. Access to a traditional, unspoilt girl when you're a young kid and letting things progress with her based purely on propinquity.

This is why I see so many guys who are punching way above their weight. If these guys were single today and trying to navigate the dating marketplace, they'd be finding it just as difficult and soul-crushing as you or me. But at the age of 17 they met a dime-piece who really didn't know any better, who hadn't been jaded by alpha cock (and never will) and whose head isn't spinning from the tyranny of choice girls are subjected to in the dating marketplace circa 2019.

You want to start a family with a traditional girl? That's how you do it.

Of course, with the high rates of divorce, there's no guarantee they'll stay married, or that he'll get itchy feet and get caught cheating and create untold amounts of drama for himself. But the point is he locked down an ideal mate and pumped out a few kids with her.

At 40, your access to young, decent and fertile women goes down. The odds are stacked against you that you'll meet an age-appropriate mate who isn't covered with tattoos and has one or two kids from some alpha. Particularly in the west.

The player lifestyle is not sustainable unless you're Leonardo DiCaprio. Having a family hasn't been a right fit for you (or me) until it is now at the very cusp of it being too late. There are no easy solutions. Why am I not married with kids at 40? Because I enjoy the freedom and I know that if I was married with kids the odds are I'd start to grow bored and it would be like a prison. Women are not the easiest creatures to live with, and I like having my own space and the freedom to indulge my habits.

[BlastbeatCasanova]

Even though I'm in my late twenties I can see where a lot of you guys are coming from.

My question is: when did you guys realize y'all wanted to settle down and have a family? When I think of the future I have a really hard time envisioning myself as family man with kids. I'm pretty selfish with my time and while I am social I like being alone and doing my own thing, I don't know if this is an inborn trait or if it has been programmed into me by society. I come from a family-oriented background with lots of stable marriages between uncles and aunts and so-on, so I *feel* like it's something I should do or will have to do/be expected to do in the future.

Is there any value to the player lifestyle in your youth or is it a waste of time? Seeing Roosh's transformation has me wondering. If I really wanted to I think I could work hard over the next 4-5 years and to find a wife-able girl, I've known a few in the past, they're out there but uncommon. I understand what you guys are saying that it gets difficult when you get older. Right now I feel like I need to work on myself and moving up in life, settling down at this point would really slow me down. Also I want to bang a lot of more chicks...But I realize that that is also probably some societal programming from our over-sexed culture and that finding one girl and having a family has become the rebellious "edgy" thing to do in a sense.