[Brother Abdul Majeed]

(03-26-2019 08:42 AM)Philosopher Wrote:  

https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com...st-arrive/

Recently was flying to Cyprus via Qatar Airways from JFK Airport and was put on a list of 4 people who could not board the plane until an exit interview was done by ICE. Waited about half and hour for them to arrive (a man in his thirties and a cute blonde in her twenties) and they asked me for my hotel reservation in Cyprus and details about where I work and live as well as social media info. Took about 15 minutes though I was freezing in the walkway in the 40 degree New York evening weather.

Anyone travel outside recently and get interviewed? I read that the new Executive order in the link above mandates exit interviews like they do in other countries like Russia for example. Any US Citizens who travelled this year had something similar happen to them?

I'm curious to know what they asked you about your social media.

[Jim Kirk]

As always, those posting on Roosh are skating to where the puck is 'going to be'. For a variety of reasons I have followed trends in the U.S. increasing scrutiny of its own citizens leaving the United States at airports and seaports. Growing up in Archie Bunker Country in Queens like I did - there were real 'holocaust survivors' in my neighborhood who escaped from Germany and Eastern Europe as the hammer was starting to fall. They all told me all the crap they had to do in order to get out of Germany or Switzerland - forged papers, extensive questioning, luggage inspections, being separated from other family members and questioned separately as to why they were leaving the country, being separated from children for extensive periods of time before being able to board a ship or a train heading to the coast - having assets seized at the port of exit, having to melt down gold and silver into jewelry painted black to leave with some assets, etc.

I know a lot of people here would love it if Amrev 2 starts, but I am out of here with my wife and kids. As the U.S. has moved to become an Orwellian nightmare - I often wondered if the gov. would shut the borders down or otherwise grill people like Germany did at one time. The general trend - this is not a perfect summary, but it will give you idea of the upshot. I live in New York (for another 16 months only thank God) I have friends and relatives that have worked with, or for the government agencies that run the airports. My conclusion is that in 30 years, (if not sooner) you will need direct "permission" from the U.S. State Department to leave the United States. A foreign entry visa will be the least of your worries.

First, all this was hinted at in the movie 'V for Vendetta' when the child molesting Anglican Bishop gets 'permission' to leave in England and also where the female genetic scientist whom V kills was denied 'permission' to leave the country, ostensibly because of her work in the project that 'created' V.

First, there is already what I would consider a passive 'de facto' exit permission process in place. International flight passenger manifests are already run through several massive databases, including outstanding arrest warrants, active criminal cases, probation/parole records, outstanding IRS cases and back taxes, terrorist watch lists and I believe certain family court records where outstanding child support payments are logged. I also know that, at least in New York, there are databases which are not supposed to exist of 'persons of interest' or of 'suspicious activity' and suspicious associates are also run and your travel logged. Everything is justified as 'national security.' This is a passive check and given backlogs and inefficiency, not every 'match' out of these databases is actually affirmatively investigated or has action taken on it but the checks do occur. One day this will switch over to an active check where you will have to provide an itinerary, hotel information, a copy of the foreign visa and you will be asked a slew of questions that it will be a federal crime to give the wrong answer to - for instance "are you conducting any business in blah blah blah" If you answer yes they will ask your employer, circumstances, etc. There will be a 'checkout' departure process at the airport run by ICE unless you have enough social credit and 'voluntarily' submit to a program where you volunteer for regular anal probes of your business and behavior in order to become a 'trusted traveler'

If you have ever read a newspaper where a suspect or a convict is literally taken off a flight after the plane is loaded and at the gate, or even called back around while taxiing for take-off - that is usually the result of a last minute 'match' on these behind the scenes databases that gets investigated. Most of the matches on outgoing flights are not followed-up - they wait for you to come back in when you have Customs Enforcement run your passport through the TECHS II databases. Its just so much easier and cost efficient to get you on an incoming flight as opposed to outgoing but that is changing. For a big fish, or someone who is not going to come back - they will call the airport police and have them grab someone. Also I have 'heard' that the U.S. and Canada 'share' much of this framework, so if you think driving into Canada is going to save you you are mistaken. I would assume we may have the same thing on the Mexican border with their customs people.

Also, the U.S. Gov is tracking all its retirees on social security as to any plans to leave the country because most people here can't live on their meager pensions and social security money so they head to Columbia or Mexico. When my parents put their social security papers in a few years ago, they were asked a slew of questions regarding any intent to live abroad. That was another sign. They are not just gathering statistics at this point. It was so intrusive they actually commented to me about it after the interview. These questions are in tandem with the fact that the U.S. wants information on all your foreign bank accounts and business investments and it wants to tax your worldwide income. The massive increase in required tax filings for U.S. citizens and resident aliens on foreign property/assets/bank accounts was another sign that they want to control you wherever you live.

Now for most of us, who work and keep a clean record, this will be a hassle and an annoyance and it will make you hate your homeland even more - but realize this will put in a framework for a system that can make it extremely difficult to leave if they decide, for instance, during a national emergency or when your children are of legal draft age, you cannot leave the country without a reason 'approved' by the government. You got 3 sons aged 16, 17 and 18 and you want to fly to China where you have no business or family and we just declared war on Russian and they institute a general draft - they will not let them out. Did you work for the U.S. Department of Defense as an analyst for 10 years - sorry, we can't let you leave even though you retired long ago. You have advanced coding and tech security skills from having worked at the ABC company for 20 years - sorry your skills are vital to U.S. interests, we can't let you leave.

Researching ways to sail, motorboat, walk, or drive out of the lower 48 in a time of mass panic or revolution may be a 'good idea'. Puckerman's comment about securing the border is extremely prescient.

[Leonard D Neubache]

^You just made the list, buddy.

[rockoman]

(03-27-2019 02:03 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(03-26-2019 10:33 AM)rockoman Wrote:  

The implication of holding such interviews and asking questions is that if your answers are not satisfactory, then you will not be allowed to leave.

East Germany probably started like that.

If I were an American, then I would be bringing forward my departure date.

IIRC the formation of East Germany was a little more dramatic than that.

Well East Germany (GDR) was formed in 1949. Throughout the early to mid 50s it was possible to leave but became increasingly difficult. The Berlin Wall went up suddenly in 1961.

Some people (like Merkel's Family ) went the other way. Her family emigrated to East Germany in 1954 a few weeks after her birth in Hamburg.

[seaofp]

if enough people started to leave, you got to think they would try to stem the flow.

[Philosopher]

(03-28-2019 09:17 AM)Brother Abdul Majeed Wrote:  

(03-26-2019 08:42 AM)Philosopher Wrote:  

https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com...st-arrive/

Recently was flying to Cyprus via Qatar Airways from JFK Airport and was put on a list of 4 people who could not board the plane until an exit interview was done by ICE. Waited about half and hour for them to arrive (a man in his thirties and a cute blonde in her twenties) and they asked me for my hotel reservation in Cyprus and details about where I work and live as well as social media info. Took about 15 minutes though I was freezing in the walkway in the 40 degree New York evening weather.

Anyone travel outside recently and get interviewed? I read that the new Executive order in the link above mandates exit interviews like they do in other countries like Russia for example. Any US Citizens who travelled this year had something similar happen to them?

I'm curious to know what they asked you about your social media.

They asked to spell what my name is on Facebook and whether I have any other Social Media accounts. Fortunately, have not updated my facebook or vk.com profiles in 2-3 years.

[TravelingBodybuilder]

It was probably a random check. They did not interview you to see if you were a terrorist. The purpose of this was to see if you were involved in criminal activities like money laundering, tax evasion etc. Cyprus is a questionable destination to visit out of all countries in the world to visit so they wanted to know why you wanted to go to Cyprus and wanted to see what your story was. And my guess is they asked for your social media to see if your lifestyle matches your job profession. If you have a job making 15k a year or worse unemployed- They may wonder why are you in luxury hotels and traveling the world year round as your social media shows if this is the case= Red flag=further investigation.
If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to worry about. But of course it is bs and harassment.

[Tail Gunner]

(03-28-2019 09:59 AM)Jim Kirk Wrote:  

As always, those posting on Roosh are skating to where the puck is 'going to be'. For a variety of reasons I have followed trends in the U.S. increasing scrutiny of its own citizens leaving the United States at airports and seaports. Growing up in Archie Bunker Country in Queens like I did - there were real 'holocaust survivors' in my neighborhood who escaped from Germany and Eastern Europe as the hammer was starting to fall. They all told me all the crap they had to do in order to get out of Germany or Switzerland - forged papers, extensive questioning, luggage inspections, being separated from other family members and questioned separately as to why they were leaving the country, being separated from children for extensive periods of time before being able to board a ship or a train heading to the coast - having assets seized at the port of exit, having to melt down gold and silver into jewelry painted black to leave with some assets, etc.

I know a lot of people here would love it if Amrev 2 starts, but I am out of here with my wife and kids. As the U.S. has moved to become an Orwellian nightmare - I often wondered if the gov. would shut the borders down or otherwise grill people like Germany did at one time. The general trend - this is not a perfect summary, but it will give you idea of the upshot. I live in New York (for another 16 months only thank God) I have friends and relatives that have worked with, or for the government agencies that run the airports. My conclusion is that in 30 years, (if not sooner) you will need direct "permission" from the U.S. State Department to leave the United States. A foreign entry visa will be the least of your worries.

First, all this was hinted at in the movie 'V for Vendetta' when the child molesting Anglican Bishop gets 'permission' to leave in England and also where the female genetic scientist whom V kills was denied 'permission' to leave the country, ostensibly because of her work in the project that 'created' V.

First, there is already what I would consider a passive 'de facto' exit permission process in place. International flight passenger manifests are already run through several massive databases, including outstanding arrest warrants, active criminal cases, probation/parole records, outstanding IRS cases and back taxes, terrorist watch lists and I believe certain family court records where outstanding child support payments are logged. I also know that, at least in New York, there are databases which are not supposed to exist of 'persons of interest' or of 'suspicious activity' and suspicious associates are also run and your travel logged. Everything is justified as 'national security.' This is a passive check and given backlogs and inefficiency, not every 'match' out of these databases is actually affirmatively investigated or has action taken on it but the checks do occur. One day this will switch over to an active check where you will have to provide an itinerary, hotel information, a copy of the foreign visa and you will be asked a slew of questions that it will be a federal crime to give the wrong answer to - for instance "are you conducting any business in blah blah blah" If you answer yes they will ask your employer, circumstances, etc. There will be a 'checkout' departure process at the airport run by ICE unless you have enough social credit and 'voluntarily' submit to a program where you volunteer for regular anal probes of your business and behavior in order to become a 'trusted traveler'

If you have ever read a newspaper where a suspect or a convict is literally taken off a flight after the plane is loaded and at the gate, or even called back around while taxiing for take-off - that is usually the result of a last minute 'match' on these behind the scenes databases that gets investigated. Most of the matches on outgoing flights are not followed-up - they wait for you to come back in when you have Customs Enforcement run your passport through the TECHS II databases. Its just so much easier and cost efficient to get you on an incoming flight as opposed to outgoing but that is changing. For a big fish, or someone who is not going to come back - they will call the airport police and have them grab someone. Also I have 'heard' that the U.S. and Canada 'share' much of this framework, so if you think driving into Canada is going to save you you are mistaken. I would assume we may have the same thing on the Mexican border with their customs people.

Also, the U.S. Gov is tracking all its retirees on social security as to any plans to leave the country because most people here can't live on their meager pensions and social security money so they head to Columbia or Mexico. When my parents put their social security papers in a few years ago, they were asked a slew of questions regarding any intent to live abroad. That was another sign. They are not just gathering statistics at this point. It was so intrusive they actually commented to me about it after the interview. These questions are in tandem with the fact that the U.S. wants information on all your foreign bank accounts and business investments and it wants to tax your worldwide income. The massive increase in required tax filings for U.S. citizens and resident aliens on foreign property/assets/bank accounts was another sign that they want to control you wherever you live.

Now for most of us, who work and keep a clean record, this will be a hassle and an annoyance and it will make you hate your homeland even more - but realize this will put in a framework for a system that can make it extremely difficult to leave if they decide, for instance, during a national emergency or when your children are of legal draft age, you cannot leave the country without a reason 'approved' by the government. You got 3 sons aged 16, 17 and 18 and you want to fly to China where you have no business or family and we just declared war on Russian and they institute a general draft - they will not let them out. Did you work for the U.S. Department of Defense as an analyst for 10 years - sorry, we can't let you leave even though you retired long ago. You have advanced coding and tech security skills from having worked at the ABC company for 20 years - sorry your skills are vital to U.S. interests, we can't let you leave.

Researching ways to sail, motorboat, walk, or drive out of the lower 48 in a time of mass panic or revolution may be a 'good idea'. Puckerman's comment about securing the border is extremely prescient.

There is a great deal of wisdom here. I have worked for years, in my spare time, to obtain second residencies, second citizenships, and investments outside of my home country. Invest in real things (e.g., food, housing, and your own self-improvement and ability to adapt), not in ethereal financial instruments. The writing is on the wall for all to see -- if you choose to see.

   

[Leonard D Neubache]

A bit dated.

Marriage and reproduction is an act of rebellion these days.

[Sp5]

Can you still walk or drive out of the USA without checkpoints on the US side?
Been awhile since I walked over the bridge into Juarez or Reynosa, or drove to Toronto.
If that's changed, it's all over.

Fuck that social media questioning.

The only time I've seen this it involved African immigrant guys bringing cash home for families. It might have to do with the $10,000 limit on undeclared cash leaving the country. Like you might have had $500,000 in cocaine cash in your bag bound for a Cyprus bank account.

[yankeetravels]

Guys, you need to calm down on the paranoia a bit. Do you really think there's gonna be a day where the US will make it extremely difficult for people to leave the country? I have a very hard time believing that, because the US is one of the leaders in global tourism and basically keeps some industries afloat for poorer countries.

In the cruise ship industry, the US dominates tourism numbers. They had 11.5 million passengers globally a couple years ago. That's about 3% of the country going on cruises. Do you know the next highest number? China, with 2 million. That's just one example. When we get into what countries America visits, it's normally Mexico, the Caribbean beach countries, and western Europe. Do you really think all these places, who have a lot riding on US tourism, would just sit and nod their heads while the US heavily restricted their citizens to travel to said countries? I'd say no, unless you have plenty of replacements for them.

Also, for what you guys are saying about this tax and ban stuff, you can make a much stronger argument with China having social credit, northeast Asian countries basically all requiring fingerprints upon entry, US snapping your photo for facial recognition, UK and Australia openly banning people, Thailand even getting fucking stricter about expats staying long term. The list goes on and on. What I'm saying is, this is not just an American issue. We pretty much have to live in the developing world full time to avoid what you're talking about in this thread, and I think even that has its own can of worms for red tape that guys in those places can get into.

My theory on all this is with the rise of online jobs and businesses, a lot of this may be just to regulate online income. Not that that is a great thing for us, but the more I hear people talk about this, the more I honestly think countries don't know what to do with these people that travel the world with no permanent home. It hasn't really happened this rapidly at any point in history because it was always a lot more difficult. Now there's basically a playbook for everyone with the right passport to take advantage of if they're willing to take one step outside their comfort zone.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a supporter for sure of diversifying assets and maybe even getting a second citizenship where it seems fit, but I think if something like what's being talked about here ever happened on a mass scale, it would pretty much cripple the global economy.

[Tail Gunner]

(03-30-2019 04:00 PM)yankeetravels Wrote:  

Guys, you need to calm down on the paranoia a bit. Do you really think there's gonna be a day where the US will make it extremely difficult for people to leave the country? I have a very hard time believing that, because the US is one of the leaders in global tourism and basically keeps some industries afloat for poorer countries.

All you need to do is read some history. Just one example:

"How Nazi Germany became a top tourist destination. After the Munich beer hall putsch, credulous foreigners flocked to Hitler’s new ‘utopia’"

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/08/how-...stination/

(03-30-2019 04:00 PM)yankeetravels Wrote:  

Don't get me wrong, I'm a supporter for sure of diversifying assets and maybe even getting a second citizenship where it seems fit, but I think if something like what's being talked about here ever happened on a mass scale, it would pretty much cripple the global economy.

Uh . . . it is going to happen. The only question is the timing and the extent of the damage. It might be two years or twenty years. The damage could be moderate (think of the 2008 financial panic, but if a collapse had actually occurred) -- or far more severe. No one knows the answer to either of those two questions. But a financial collapse will definitely happen. It almost happened in 2008. No nation on Earth has ever survived the current levels of debt. Negative interest rates have never existed in all of human history. And all reserve currencies end:

   


Meanwhile, the U.S., which currently has the benefit of the world's reserve currency to prop up its bankrupt and bloated welfare state, continues to shoot itself in the foot. Just to cit one example:

   


I follow this stuff closely. It is not a matter of if, but only a matter of when -- and the extent of the damage to the worldwide economy. Everyone who invests in the stock market knows the old adage: "Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent." In other words, you can be absolutely right about market events, but still lose everything you own if you have the timing wrong (watch the film "The Big Short").

By the same token, economies can remain irrational for a long long time before they finally implode. It took every financial tool at the disposal of the U.S. government to prevent a massive financial meltdown in 2008. Most of those tools are no longer viable -- and yet the same moral hazard still exists, because the bankers received bonuses instead of jail time.

When the end arrives, like a thief in the night, you will not hear a thing -- just silence:

[yankeetravels]

You're acting like this is purely a United States problem though when it really isn't. Honestly, the way I'm reading the numbers, Russia seems to be the only one that has any hope of staying out of a supposed debt crisis.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

Looking at the above, a lot of world powers have the debt problem you are presenting. Greece is at a near 200% level, Japan has a lot of debt and US treasuries, China may not have debt issues on paper but certainly a lot of questions and the US is one of their biggest global customers with social credit coming in. They are not a great alternative basically. Portugal has debt, Spain has debt, Brazil has debt, Belgium, France and Italy all have debt, and the UK has Brexit looming which may be one of the more important economic decisions they make in recent years.

The point being if the US went down, almost everybody in the first world probably has their domino go with them. Which leaves the developing world like I mentioned before, with their own issues in corrupt governments presenting red tape for outsiders with means. I'm not saying nothing is ever going to happen, but for this exit interview thing, I don't think it means everybody is gonna batten down the hatches and trap everybody where they are. We are entering a more open global economy era where borders are being opened (whether we like it or not) and not closed. Why would countries facing debt get rid of one of their easiest ways to boost their economy?

[Tail Gunner]

(03-30-2019 07:15 PM)yankeetravels Wrote:  

You're acting like this is purely a United States problem though when it really isn't.

Not at all. While I could have been more specific, I stated: "No nation on Earth has ever survived the current levels of debt." I was referring to all the industrialized nations. I also stated: "It is not a matter of if, but only a matter of when -- and the extent of the damage to the worldwide economy."

I used the U.S. as one example, because it is the least rotten apple in a huge bucket of rotten apples. In other words, if it can happen here, then it can happen everywhere. The U.S. economy, which has the benefit of having the world's reserve currency, almost imploded in 2008. It is obvious that all the other industrialized countries of the world will be in far worse shape, which is why it will be a worldwide economic collapse.

By the way, Italy is alreay in a "technical recession." While not officially in recession yet, Australia’s growth is slowing significantly. University of New South Wales professor Richard Holden says it is in "effective recession" with per-capita GDP having declined in both Q3 and Q4 of 2018. And as China's top raw material supplier, Australia's last recession was in 1991!

[aeroektar]

(03-30-2019 07:15 PM)yankeetravels Wrote:  

You're acting like this is purely a United States problem though when it really isn't. Honestly, the way I'm reading the numbers, Russia seems to be the only one that has any hope of staying out of a supposed debt crisis.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

Looking at the above, a lot of world powers have the debt problem you are presenting. Greece is at a near 200% level, Japan has a lot of debt and US treasuries, China may not have debt issues on paper but certainly a lot of questions and the US is one of their biggest global customers with social credit coming in. They are not a great alternative basically. Portugal has debt, Spain has debt, Brazil has debt, Belgium, France and Italy all have debt, and the UK has Brexit looming which may be one of the more important economic decisions they make in recent years.

The point being if the US went down, almost everybody in the first world probably has their domino go with them. Which leaves the developing world like I mentioned before, with their own issues in corrupt governments presenting red tape for outsiders with means. I'm not saying nothing is ever going to happen, but for this exit interview thing, I don't think it means everybody is gonna batten down the hatches and trap everybody where they are. We are entering a more open global economy era where borders are being opened (whether we like it or not) and not closed. Why would countries facing debt get rid of one of their easiest ways to boost their economy?

Actually, we've been living in that era for long enough now and it seems to be heading for collapse. Something so unnatural and impractical can only be short lived.