[MrLemon]

(03-27-2019 11:52 AM)Barron Wrote:  

I gotta say, all the shaming and moral high grounding this thread has trudged up speaks volumes. Anyone that disagreed with Lemon could have done so in a hundred different ways that would have been far more interesting and thought provoking than this sad spectacle of virtue-arguing.

What the fuck are you guys so afraid of?

Good post by Lemon.

Unfortunately the forum is having a problem which seems to be getting worse.

There is a certain faction of posters that have decided to go around and use personal attacks, trolling, and the usual teenager-level rudeness to shut down any poster that they are jealous of or who opposes their shit.

They've increasingly decided to target me over the past few months -- so every thread I start immediately gets shaming and moral high-grounding.

I don't terribly care. I have a huge number of other problems in my life, notably, my health is again failing badly, so I'm not long for this board anyway.

But the sad thing is...these techniques are quite effective at shutting down opposition. Once people come in and frame your thread as "stupid" using various taunts, it's hard to shake it.

I've heard from other senior members who have essentially stopped posting because the same happened to them.

Too bad. The internet is slowly losing all it's places to discuss things without fear of getting shut down by SJWs. This has been a great place. Now it's slowly shutting down, not by SJWs, but by morons.

[Easy_C]

You're not being "targeted".

You made an argument in defense of a war that's been very thoroughly discredited and received responses roughly on par with what you put out. The law of attraction is operating in full force in this thread.

[KorbenDallas]

Well, Bush certainly sped up the eventual currency collapse of the United States by bankrupting us in the graveyard of empires, speeding up the decline of an immoral empire which is actively working against the heritage citizens (white and black) of the original nation.

So, if Bush's goal was to wreck the empire through incompetence before replacement level immigration of Hispanic and other foreigners kicked in and completely destroyed the original Americans society, he was successful.

I don't think that was his goal though. I think he was sorta a puppet manipulated by the neocons around him and that the people around him were a lot less smart than they thought they were.

It's telling that the two succeeding President's after Bush, who were of different parties (Obama and Trump) largely won based on their opposition to the war that bankrupted the sole superpower on earth. Obama, through his not voting for it, and Trump, through his repeated insults to the Bush family heir (Jeb).

Americans of both parties agree on very little. One of those agreements is the immoral, bankrupting, corrupt, poorly executed, (still going on, Rumsfeld thought would last 1 year tops) and downright stupefying middle eastern wars foisted on a public through media manipulation and deception.

[goodburger]

The sentiment/language of the OP is like a time machine back to highschool when the war was kicking off. At that time the public was completely helpless against the propaganda thrown at them. No one knew what Islam or it's internal power dynamics were. No one knew of our past friend/not friend relationship with Iraq and the rest of the region, etc.

I don't know how anyone could look back and not see it as a massive turning point. There's the conflict itself, the following destabilization of the region which has resulted in the migration of millions of muslims into Europe and the US. As the war went South there was the mass conservative demoralization that allowed the left to run wild for a decade. And like Vietnam it's not even about the war itself, it's about all of the good and decent things that were dragged down the drain with it.

After 911 Bush had a largely united country with so much political capital and Iraq is how he spent it.

[MrLemon]

(03-27-2019 05:21 PM)goodburger Wrote:  

The sentiment/language of the OP is like a time machine back to highschool when the war was kicking off. At that time the public was completely helpless against the propaganda thrown at them. No one knew what Islam or it's internal power dynamics were. No one knew of our past friend/not friend relationship with Iraq and the rest of the region, etc.

I don't know how anyone could look back and not see it as a massive turning point. There's the conflict itself, the following destabilization of the region which has resulted in the migration of millions of muslims into Europe and the US. As the war went South there was the mass conservative demoralization that allowed the left to run wild for a decade. And like Vietnam it's not even about the war itself, it's about all of the good and decent things that were dragged down the drain with it.

After 911 Bush had a largely united country with so much political capital and Iraq is how he spent it.

Good points.

Regarding the language: I was inviting debate and staked out a position which, although you may not agree with it, is something that could produce an interesting discussion.

That's when we get good content on this forum...when we have aggressive and respectful debates of politically incorrect ideas.

Unfortunately there are some posters who use shaming, personal insults, and 1-line put downs to trash anybody that they dislike. This is a certain group of people who do this constantly and yes, the DO follow posters they don't like around to different threads and try to trash them. Sad because it does diminish the value of the board, and no, it is not the way this board is supposed to operate according to Roosh's rules.

Since you're a newbie to the board -- welcome -- and thanks for your post.

[TigerMandingo]

Lemon, you’re the one having meltdowns every time there’s a Jew post and then you play the victim. You could just ignore those posts if you don’t like them but instead you go on long diatribes about keeping them confined to one thread. You’re a highly sensitive guy, most likely a Boomer if I had to guess.

[godfather dust]

Yes boomers have a strong brainwashed reflex to quickly become offended over the slightest criticism of Jews.

[Sp5]

OP has a foolish premise. Didn't want to get involved in retarded thread, but here we are.

I went to Iraq, spent some time there.

From my observations on the inside of the mission, several reasons for the war.

Not in any particular order, except that WMD near the bottom of reasons:
-- Saddam Hussein was insane and unpredictable.
-- Wanted to increase Iraqi oil production to sustain the petroleum economy (before fracking).
-- Israel lobby, destroy enemy of Israel.
-- Possibility of chemical and bio weapon stocks (could have been hidden in huge ammo bunker complexes I saw).
-- Idealistic wish to build an Arab democracy and make it an ally of the USA.
-- mass psychosis after 9/11, feedback loop from media beating war drums for ratings
-- institutional corruption and war profiteering

My base belief is that oil, Israel, and crazy Saddam were the top reasons, but there was no one reason. Whether these were "logical" reasons, I have doubts. It certainly was a costly defeat in several ways, with no benefit to the USA. Saddam possibly could have been bought off and tamed like Gaddafi was. The USA had worked with him in the 1980s.

[Beirut]

(03-18-2019 11:40 AM)MrLemon Wrote:  

The middle eastern countries had attacked the US on 9/11.

What? The Middle eastern countries? Israel? Turkey? Saudi? The imaginary league of middle eastern countries that have formed an alliance of superhero villains?

Your sentence makes zero sense.

Quote:

, the Iraq/Iran/Saudis had undercut that system.

Again, what the hell are you talking about?

iraq/iran/saudis? You realize saudi arabia is the biggest US ally after israel and the US protects its regime right?

At the time of Bush especially. Bandar ben Sultan was nicknamed Bandar Bush and is a very close ally and agent as well as the whole royal family. Not to mention that you picked the 3 countries that had the most wars and political conflicts between them and lumped them all together.

Quote:

If that trend were allowed to continue, the next step would be, you would have nukes set off in Wash DC.

I heard Saddam was planning on inventing nukes and blowing the whole of DC a millisecond before he was thrown off.

Quote:

So he randomly picked a middle-eastern nation. Yawn.

Youve been watching too many austin powers movies. Randomly picked a nation? what are you smoking... I hope youre a leftover Nasa Test Pilot alt.

Quote:

"oh fuck, the US military can stomp us casually, any time, with or without UN approval."

It was the perfect demonstration. It conveyed the message that the POTUS wanted to convey.

Yeah funny how the perfect demonstration after a terrorist attack perpetrated by a nomad al qaeda group led to invasion of Iraq, which led to the emergence of ISIS, a terrorist group that had a capital, government, and invaded territories in two or three countries.

Not to mention led to the wipeout of iraqi christians which seems to be the wet dream of the fake US christian right.

Plz dont convey any more messages.

[Beirut]

(03-28-2019 04:31 AM)Sp5 Wrote:  

OP has a foolish premise. Didn't want to get involved in retarded thread, but here we are.

I went to Iraq, spent some time there.

From my observations on the inside of the mission, several reasons for the war.

Not in any particular order, except that WMD near the bottom of reasons:
-- Saddam Hussein was insane and unpredictable.
-- Wanted to increase Iraqi oil production to sustain the petroleum economy (before fracking).
-- Israel lobby, destroy enemy of Israel.
-- Possibility of chemical and bio weapon stocks (could have been hidden in huge ammo bunker complexes I saw).
-- Idealistic wish to build an Arab democracy and make it an ally of the USA.
-- mass psychosis after 9/11, feedback loop from media beating war drums for ratings
-- institutional corruption and war profiteering

My base belief is that oil, Israel, and crazy Saddam were the top reasons, but there was no one reason. Whether these were "logical" reasons, I have doubts. It certainly was a costly defeat in several ways, with no benefit to the USA. Saddam possibly could have been bought off and tamed like Gaddafi was. The USA had worked with him in the 1980s.

All valid reasonings but i would add the main one:

It was part of a greater plan. We get caught up in deep secret state theories but the neocons actually spelled out their view for the middle east before and after 9/11.

Their theory was called creative chaos. basically spreading dischord and rewriting the countries' borders. These are laid out in public speeches by numerous neocon officials.

Weirdly enough, their border for the sunni state that would emerge fits perfectly with the borders ISIS had.

Anyway, within that plan, Iraq was the perfect catalyst.

1- Part sunni part shiite with a history of tensions
2- Weakened regime that had served its 1980s use long ago.
3- Close borders to both sunni saudi arabia and shiite Iran.

The regime goes, sunnis and shiites rip each other to shreds over the country, spills over Syria and Iran and Saudi cant help but be involved ==== redefining the borders into eternally fighting religious ministates that will ensure all these countries remain shit forever thereby securing Israel and oil.

To be fair, the idea of religious ministates isnt so bad on its own, but the history of the west and the region clearly shows that this would only be used to instigate and play them against each other into bloody wars for eternity.

[renotime]

(03-18-2019 07:46 PM)Kona Wrote:  

I don't know if Iraq was right or wrong.

But to the folks that say there were no wmd's (which may very well be true) have you ever considered maybe we blew them up right when shit started? The first part was "shock and awe" which ripped apart every possible target in the whole country.

I know everyone went into it thinking there was mustard gas all over the place, but nothing was there.

Who knows?

Aloha!

I love how you blame the Jews for everything, except the fucking Iraq war.

[Heuristics]