[Graft]

Most game forums like this do an ineffective job of explaining social circle game. A couple of hard truths:

1. Most guys on this forum lean towards the "lone wolf" side, without a pre-existing social circle from HS, work, or college
2. Developing a social circle is not worth the time if you are only doing it for new leads.

I won't be talking about how to mine your social circles for new leads or how to effectively make friends. I am just going to explain how social dynamics can completely change your results with existing leads.

The biggest fear that a girl has when meeting a guy from cold approach or dating apps is that he's "weird."

This means socially maladjusted, the ridiculous but famous "serial killer" label, unpopular, etc.

I have no friends from my past life and I am still able to fight this extremely effectively with my newer social circles. One thing I don't do is enter new social circles and try to pick up existing chicks, there's no need for me to do that with my level of cold game. It can creep the girls out, and thus lead to the guys turning on you, it's just not worth it.

First thing that I do is pick up a hot girl from one of my cold efforts. I don't waste time with phone numbers, I give her my instagram and start chatting with her on there.

My instagram does not have 10k followers and modelesque portraits. I try to show that I have a cool lifestyle, with other people involved, and keep some of my captions relatively normal. She immediately sees that I'm pretty cool and normal because of how I present it.

The next key thing that I do is meet up with her for a one on one date before a social gathering that I have. About 30-60 minutes into the date, I mention that one of my friends is having a birthday party/event/whatever. I invite her and tell her to bring "whoever."

Keep in mind that I don't have a banging social circle. I might only know 1-3 people at whatever event I'm showing up at. But when I make this play with a cold lead, amazing things can happen. My close ratio is through the roof whenever I try it. It really doesn't matter how "cool" my friends are, because I've already shown her how "cool" I am. All I am trying to do is get that "serial killer" edge off of her and prove that I'm normal.

I show up to the event, bringing my date and sometimes friends. I immediately show value to the other men in the room by showing up with a set of girls and delivering them to the other guys in the room. I've gotten lucky before and had girls bring friends who were 9s or 10s. It makes you look like a huge baller when you not only show up with hot girls, but you're willing to just hand them over to a stranger. Major points.

More importantly I show her that I'm a normal guy, who has friends who know him by name, who gets invited to events. My friends don't have to be good looking. They don't have to be wealthy. They just need to have some sort of pregame/party that I can bring girls to, win-win situation.

Assuming I effectively build attraction, this missing piece is what gets me the notch every time, because it takes that last line of defense a girl has: "what if he's weird" when she meets a guy off an app or on the street.

Would highly recommend the process to enhance your life.

[PapayaTapper]

Dupity dupe

thread-34576.html

[Graft]

(01-09-2019 05:13 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Dupity dupe

thread-34576.html

This is a different data sheet.

That's how to create a social circle and effectively game within it.

I'm teaching a much easier route, which is to bring new leads to a newish social event in order to cement both.

[MaceTyrell]

Social Circle game is the best route for finding an LTR. Social circles are the best route for actually having "fun" with Game.

Thank you for starting this thread.

[a beer is enough]

Spot on, 10/10 much needed thread.

I might be in the minority here (pun not intended) but we need to beat social circle over the fucking head and not be scared because some weird guys want to embrace the sociopathic lonewolf lifestyle. The irony is, a lot of these guys were late bloomers specifically because they acted like lone wolves in their youth or had a bunch of shit going on that made it tough to make new friends.

In my honest opinion, I think the best thing a man can do in game is to find a decent enough social tribe instead of going about this alone. I have gone out alone and believe me, it turns a lot of top tier girls away. Any guy telling you stories of how he has gone to nightclubs and bars alone and walked out with 10s is bullshitting you. When I started going out with a crew, pick up became 10x easier and a lot less awkward.

There is a saying that you are the average of the 5 people you spend most of your time with. I think we can benefit greatly by speaking more about finding at least some good guy friends who can help us on our game journey than work against us.

I have always felt like guys who had their social lives on lock and had a good 4 or 5 quality friends to lean on were always in a better spot than the so called PUA who goes about it all alone.

[lunchmoney]

Good thread and interesting takes thus far. I learned game from guys who were in essence lone wolf mindset, and were effective at it. The world is different from just a decade ago, and social circle game can be vital for success in certain cities more than others.

[pancakemouse]

(01-09-2019 06:00 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

I have always felt like guys who had their social lives on lock and had a good 4 or 5 quality friends to lean on were always in a better spot than the so called PUA who goes about it all alone.

Yes.

The "naturals" I have met who are like this do much better than any "community guy". That's the big secret that almost no one in the community seems to understand.

My biggest issue has always been the separation between my social circle and girls. I've never wanted to mix the two, as I'm extremely happy with my social circle and they're all great people who provide a ton of emotional and intellectual support. However, stuff like "Game" is taboo among the circle that I run with, so I can't mix the two.

My first couple years in the Game I thought I could somehow hack the system with the lone wolf approach. I thought I could be banging the desirable sexually dimorphic girls using just technical game and the lone wolf approach.

Turns out, there are no hacks to this shit. Game, clothes, image, social circle, everything has to be congruent. Women are bloodhounds, and if something seems off they will notice pretty damn fast.

Lone wolf game works for attracting other Sigma girls. Those girls can be fun and awesome, and I have seen and slept with many of them. But they are not my preferred type, so I'll have to decide where I want to go from here.

[Jagnum]

OP -

I like this method turning first date into "come hang out in a social group". I can see it's potential. I've done this once before on a 1st date with the party happening at my house (and ended up fingering her out back, then banged her in my room).

So you're on a date with her getting one drink or a coffee or something, and then 60 minutes or so, then you just blurt out, "I'm going to this party, you should come and invite your friends." And while you're on the date she just calls up her friends and then they meet you both at the party?

Seems like a piece is missing.

I imagine some portion of the time she'd decline the invite. Or she's not inviting her friends.

Also, implies every weekend there's an event or a birthday going on that you're invited to. I'd say I have this happen like once a month, if lucky.

[Graft]

(01-09-2019 06:00 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

Spot on, 10/10 much needed thread.

I might be in the minority here (pun not intended) but we need to beat social circle over the fucking head and not be scared because some weird guys want to embrace the sociopathic lonewolf lifestyle. The irony is, a lot of these guys were late bloomers specifically because they acted like lone wolves in their youth or had a bunch of shit going on that made it tough to make new friends.

In my honest opinion, I think the best thing a man can do in game is to find a decent enough social tribe instead of going about this alone. I have gone out alone and believe me, it turns a lot of top tier girls away. Any guy telling you stories of how he has gone to nightclubs and bars alone and walked out with 10s is bullshitting you. When I started going out with a crew, pick up became 10x easier and a lot less awkward.

There is a saying that you are the average of the 5 people you spend most of your time with. I think we can benefit greatly by speaking more about finding at least some good guy friends who can help us on our game journey than work against us.

I have always felt like guys who had their social lives on lock and had a good 4 or 5 quality friends to lean on were always in a better spot than the so called PUA who goes about it all alone.

I lived a large part of my life as a lone wolf, it has its positives and negatives.

The biggest negative for introverted game sigmas is that hot popular women will figure out that you have no friends and call you on your shit. That's why it's important to have a few guys that you talk to regularly and a few social events to go to. Friends, even in name only.

The biggest positive is that you become truly independent and never need anyone. Any sort of pussy that I've smashed, money that I've made, most of the fun I've had has came from me and me only. If all of my friends picked up and ghosted me (this has happened multiple times), I wouldn't even be upset, I'd just get to figuring out the next social event that I can use for preselection. I don't expect anyone in my life to bail me out of jail or be lifelong loyal or any of that shit. Friends are just in my life to have a beer with when I'm not banging chicks and give me an occasional social event to bring girls to.

Contrast it with a guy I know, that beer is enough would say "peaked early." He has an absolutely banging social circle from high school/college and a complete physical Chad. Like most betas, he relies almost exclusively on scraps from his social circle in order to get laid. He never gets consistent pipeline. Every single thing he does is appeasing his bros. He's completely scared to do anything that would cause them to make fun of him or lose stature in the group. He gets cockblocked and abused by women because he's too afraid of the social fallout of standing up for himself. This kind of crab bucket holds him back dearly and prevents him from doing awesome things in life.

I glorified lone wolf lifestyle because of seeing how pathetic he was. Truthfully I'd rather be a sigma than to be him, every time I talk to him I'm reminded of how pathetic he is.

I've made a mix of the two lifestyles at this point. I live a lone wolf lifestyle, but supplement social circle when it's needed. I probably hang alone with guy friends once a week, go to a social event weekly (with girls), spend the rest of the time banging girls solo, hitting the gym, or reading. I don't have to kiss ass to women or frat bros. Anytime I start to see petty group politics that resemble HS/College, I bail, because I have the confidence of not needing any friends to "lean on."

I've felt like beerisenough before, but homies will come in and out of your life. Most of them will either be blue pill or Dark Triad types. If you only have the expectation of a beer buddy or preselection tool, they're easily replaceable if they start acting a fool. In my experience, it's easy to pick up superficial friendships if you show value in two ways: 1. Getting pussy 2. Getting money.

I've met a couple guys on the forum that I really get along with. We don't see each other much, but they're there to talk to. Do I sometimes wish we all partied together in a big bro pack? Yes, but I don't need that in my life in order to be happy.

Always have friend groups that respect you and what you're doing in life. Don't ever get caught up in being blue pill to appease anyone who doesn't add financial value to your life.

[The Catalyst]

(01-09-2019 06:00 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

Spot on, 10/10 much needed thread.

I might be in the minority here (pun not intended) but we need to beat social circle over the fucking head and not be scared because some weird guys want to embrace the sociopathic lonewolf lifestyle. The irony is, a lot of these guys were late bloomers specifically because they acted like lone wolves in their youth or had a bunch of shit going on that made it tough to make new friends.

In my honest opinion, I think the best thing a man can do in game is to find a decent enough social tribe instead of going about this alone. I have gone out alone and believe me, it turns a lot of top tier girls away. Any guy telling you stories of how he has gone to nightclubs and bars alone and walked out with 10s is bullshitting you. When I started going out with a crew, pick up became 10x easier and a lot less awkward.

I think true lone wolves/sigmas don't have a choice. Obviously if you could choose social circle vs PUA you'd pick the former. But I think sigmas' brains are hardwired so it's much more difficult to do the former effectively than the latter.

Add in a good amount of introversion and you'll have to have some pretty damn good friends to not feel you're babysitting others while they insist on political correctness or "being positive" etc etc.

[Graft]

(01-09-2019 07:58 PM)Jagnum Wrote:  

OP -

So you're on a date with her getting one drink or a coffee or something, and then 60 minutes or so, then you just blurt out, "I'm going to this party, you should come and invite your friends." And while you're on the date she just calls up her friends and then they meet you both at the party?

Seems like a piece is missing.

I imagine some portion of the time she'd decline the invite. Or she's not inviting her friends.

Also, implies every weekend there's an event or a birthday going on that you're invited to. I'd say I have this happen like once a month, if lucky.

Yeah, pretty much, if it's a weekend. If you're ever hanging with a young girl on the weekend, chances are she hasn't blocked out the entire night for you. She's got some tentative shit planned with her friends later. If you can show them a good time, they'll be game. It doesn't even need to be exactly like that on a first date. It could be a second date: "let's get drinks, then my buddy is having xyz happening at his apartment, bring a friend if you want." It could be in a plate/LTR situation. The point is to show that you're normal and give the illusion of being popular, while also getting approval from her friend.

I've done it on second dates more but it specifically happened to me a few weeks ago. I'm on a first date with a college girl and her friends are blowing her up, asking her to come to the date because they're bored. They sound annoying but I have an invite to a pregame later and invite them all along. The two broads show up, both cute, one of them is an absolute smoke. I'm talking about a Bilzerian level girl. I walk in the party with all three, hook a cool dude up with the smoke, I get my dick sucked and make a cool new friend.

It's sometimes better if you check your phone during the date and "blurt it out," this gives the impression that you are getting hit up all the time for events. It doesn't have to be getting invited every weekend. Just make sure that when you do get invited, you take advantage of it by using this technique. Never go to a social gathering without a prospect or hot plate.

[RDF]

Good thread idea.

This route has advantages, but I would be really careful with doing this with a girl who you haven't banged unless you have good looks (or at least maxing out your look fully) and tight game. It seems like you have both of these but obviously not everybody does.

I say this because I've been on the other side of that coin, at a social event with friends (house party/pregame, meetup at a bar, etc) where some guy loosely connected to the circle brings his Bumble date or some girl he just met. I have personally pulled one of those guy's dates home after she essentially told him she wasn't interested and he left, and my friends have done it as well. Why? Because the dudes looked like shit or had no clue how to manage the interaction with the girls (ie: had no game).

Meanwhile, I had a similar thing happen to me early in my "game career" - I brought a girl to a party that I cold approached at a bar the night before. She even brought two cute girl friends. My friend ended up hooking up with her that night. I don't even hold it against him; I hadn't banged her yet, therefore she was never "mine" to begin with. I learned my lesson though.

I'd also note that there are other ways of showing social value to a girl without bringing her around your close circle right away. A few of the top of my head that apply in my area:
-- IG with pics with you and others doing cool shit (basically what is described in OP, a cool/normal person w a profile)
-- Locked down bars, where you get a handshake w the bouncer, bartender, and get the plug on drinks. Helps even more if you bump into 1-2 people who you loosely know in the venue (harder in a bigger city but possible)
-- Connections in exclusive clubs/events where it isn't easy to get in for a regular guy. Think Meatpacking in NYC or certain Hollywood venues or mansion parties in LA.
-- Mutual friends... very likely if you went to college in the same area, you could know some the same people and it comes up casually in convo. You may barely know that person, but it won't really matter unless its her best friend; it just shows that you're a normal guy and not some loner.

I absolutely don't believe that being a pure lone wolf by choice and making shit harder on yourself is a good thing. It's like trying to win the Indy 500 with a Camry. There's just many ways to skin a cat when it comes to showing social proof early in an interaction.

[a beer is enough]

From my personal experience of having been on the side of an outcast/lone wolf for most of my life and for a very short time finally feeling like I belong somewhere, I can see the importance this has to women. Of all the things out there, I will say that social influence (in other words "status") is probably the biggest thing in terms of getting top tier girls to give you a chance, more important than looks, money and even "game". I think that a beautiful woman's biggest nightmare, moreso than death itself or becoming ugly, is being a social outcast.

Even among the most adamant DGAF lone wolf type of guys, there is still that slight need for validation and feeling like you belong somewhere since as humans we started off as having to rely on tribes. I know the differences in happiness and mentality I felt in my life when I was a lone wolf going out alone on so many nights, not having any friends, spending weekends alone and always feeling left out to being in my early twenties in NYC with roommates who got me plugged in to the social scene. Now I argue that guys who have had their fill of it and experienced it to its fullest do need the lone time but you have to have had your fill of it.

Being in a tribe brings a feeling of safety in modern age just like in the early ages it brought a feeling of safety in case you were to get attacked by outsiders. The finest women want to feel like if someone goes after them, their future family and their loved ones that they are feeling protected by not just you but your whole pack and that very aggressor is going to have what is coming to him. At our very core, to some degree, we all want to "fit in" somewhere.

On the other hand, I also relate to guys wanting to take the lone wolf path.

In my limited experience I have found the following to be true.

1. Most quality and tight knit social circles form in high school and college, usually through sports teams and big organizations like Greek Life. After that, it gets tricky though me and Graft have talked about awesome workplaces to look into after college which can offer that. A lot of guys were not lucky enough to have rich parents that funded a party lifestyle in their adolescence or live the typical upper middle class American lifestyle.

2. After your early twenties, most of American society will judge you harshly for partying, raising your notch count and not considering the seriousness of marriage. I relate to Corsega here in regards to the taboo that comes with game.

3. Most late bloomer types and those that fit the profile of the forum members who didn't "get it" until after their early twenties or so are going against the grain now if they want to live the fun bachelor life. Everyone else is rushing to get married and has got it "out of their system" while a lot of guys are trying explore their new friend freedom and have the fun they missed out on.

After a while, you start to say fuck it. I had chances to make "friends" this past year in my current city but declined because their values were so radically different. They wanted dinner parties that ended at 9 PM, I wanted to hit the bars. They were hunting for marriage and being dads/parents soon, I was trying to just experiment. At a certain point even I started to say fuck it for my current city and understood why guys chase the lone wolf life.

Instead, I think everyone would be better served if the approach was to become a people person overall including getting better with women and having the goal of big social success instead of just the sex. Kind of like the approach Distant Light took.

I feel like too many guys have a narrow goal with "game" which is to sleep with a ton of different women, maybe settle into an LTR and that's it. Instead it should be to be more like forum member Distant Light who has great life experiences to look back on, memorable stories and great nights where everyone involved had fun. Compare this to the PUA type obsessed with just the sex no matter how many other people need to end up in the wrong end of it.

Maybe I am not made for game, who knows, but even in my peak days in NYC with my roommates it wasn't just the occasionally lay with girls hotter than what I was used to that made it worth it. It was going out, having a fun time, meeting a lot of new people through them, growing my social network, and most importantly feeling like I belonged that made it worth it. The feeling of knowing that for once in my life I am not an outcast, I belong somewhere and I have something close to a crew that took me out of depression. It was this feeling of knowing that I have memories I can look back on people I can laugh with them about.

Hell even when we went to clubs and I had the worst blowouts of my life, we could laugh about that while the lone wolf me would have gone home depressed about it. I didn't give as much of a fuck if a hot girl rejected me especially when my roommate went through the same shit minutes ago, we laughed over it with some drinks before just a beer was enough

If more and more guys saw the beauty in finding their tribes, building awesome social experiences, having new quality friends in their lives as their own values grew and appreciating what can come out of it they will be happier. I think it is time that game became more about genuinely being good with people to the point they want to be your friend as well as being good with women instead of just wanting to smash as much as possible.

[The Catalyst]

Honestly, I'm going to admit I'm not completely sure about my position/views right now.

Living in NZ, I am very sigma/lone wolfy sort of not by choice. However I find I could try and get an "in" with a group by doing whatever Kiwis do, but the friendships will be shallow, they wouldn't care about me and all the normal social skills stuff wouldn't work. NZ culture is very different from normal people culture.

I've made a post a while back detailing one example of what I mean, which I'll quote.

(03-05-2018 06:39 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

A series the German government made to help Germans integrate into NZ...

All the advice the Kiwi guy gave to survive in NZ is literally the opposite of what the internet tells you to do to survive in normal countries!

Wait for me to leave NZ. Then I will know if I am a social circle person or not. I expect I am comfortable with it because I care about people, am friendly, like to do things with people. However I identify strongly with Krauser and other lone wolves and don't like doing what other people want me to do.

In a few months/years I expect when I have left I will know what is what. The other thing is since social skills techniques don't really work here I will have to wait to see how effective it is, plus my social skills have atrophied living here.

[Graft]

(01-09-2019 11:38 PM)RDF Wrote:  

I'd also note that there are other ways of showing social value to a girl without bringing her around your close circle right away. A few of the top of my head that apply in my area:
-- IG with pics with you and others doing cool shit (basically what is described in OP, a cool/normal person w a profile)
-- Locked down bars, where you get a handshake w the bouncer, bartender, and get the plug on drinks. Helps even more if you bump into 1-2 people who you loosely know in the venue (harder in a bigger city but possible)
-- Connections in exclusive clubs/events where it isn't easy to get in for a regular guy. Think Meatpacking in NYC or certain Hollywood venues or mansion parties in LA.
-- Mutual friends... very likely if you went to college in the same area, you could know some the same people and it comes up casually in convo. You may barely know that person, but it won't really matter unless its her best friend; it just shows that you're a normal guy and not some loner.

I absolutely don't believe that being a pure lone wolf by choice and making shit harder on yourself is a good thing. It's like trying to win the Indy 500 with a Camry. There's just many ways to skin a cat when it comes to showing social proof early in an interaction.

Funny, I did all four techniques in the past month or so. A couple of my friends have memberships to fairly exclusive social clubs in the city, I brought dates to those. I relayed a mutual friend connection on Saturday, but it was just one of my old friends hitting on her. My instagram I try to keep fairly normal.