[RWIsrael]

Hi All,

I've been married for 3 years and feeling that I'm gradually losing / giving away control of the relationship to my wife.

I do still run game on her (teasing, negging, qualifying etc.) and we have a good relationship and constant sex, but I am working on a long-term project to save a large amount of money and would like to minimize frivolous expenses and spending, while she is a lot more concerned with having fun and "we both work so hard we should at least enjoy it".
She wants bars, movies, holidays abroad just like all her girlfriends, new shit on Amazon etc.

It has come to a point where she is leading the relationship by suggesting fun activities and I am constantly forced to be the boring debbie-downer saying NO and defending/explaining financial responsibility (which kills fun and attraction).

I can only defend or playfully divert the conversation so much before becoming a total bore. It's not caused any problems yet but I would like to avoid potential issues and correct course.

Any advice is appreciated as to how I can reclaim the initiative in the relationshup while not having to spend that much money.

[Polniy_Sostav]

It s a common issue . I am also married for three years. Just take full control of finances . Tell her to track every expanses and to give you the bills/tickets ( not sure what s the good word in English ).
After one month make the calculation and do a breakdown by category . Next month say we reduce those expanses by 10% or 20% ( whatever you think is the best ). Raise another category by 5%.
One thing I have done with my wife is to make her understand that she spends too much on not necessary cafe and restaurants . Hopefully she is not a big spender anyway... But I said let's take 50% of this money to make a bigger trip and spend more instead of little.shitty trips.
If she doesn't accept or moan then just tell her how immature he is and how much you regret to have married a girl who is averagely dumb "just like.her friends ". Tell her that she is under the nefast influence of her friends .
If it doesn't improve then still stay with her but try to play less and be more strong . No need for negging validation etc . Just say either you listen to me either you can go.with another man . Don't be scared . You don't be surprised how pussies are women when they are shown the door.

As per the sex part ; I found the best to not lose your level and improve is to do numclosing. Try to get some girls numbers and this will improve your self-confidence . Especially if you aren't a natural born player like me . If you are a big player just try to get some girls on the side to prove yourself you re still a predator .

You can also say that for long term plans you want to have more solid accounting because you want to buy a house or create a company or something like this . Make it sound like it s a common project. If she is not into this ; you can start doubting about her .
In general I would advise you to be more strict and to allow yourself more pussies .

[Meliorare93]

(01-03-2019 07:06 AM)RWIsrael Wrote:  

It has come to a point where she is leading the relationship by suggesting fun activities and I am constantly forced to be the boring debbie-downer saying NO and defending/explaining financial responsibility (which kills fun and attraction).

I would start organising fun activities myself, within a budget you are ok with... If you overwhelm her enough with fun activities she wont be pondering about these matters herself... In short: LEAD AND DON'T DEER (Defend, Explain, Excuse, Rationalize)

Tips: https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/...ally-love/

[Captain Gh]

^ Yep that's exactly what you gotta do. Silently, but strongly let her know that this is what you want to do activity wise... and nothing else unless it's free. About how to deal with her negative pouting ... well it depends! I'm the type to say: well I don't feel like it... but I'll go if you pay! When in the car ==> Oh sweetie... I think I forgot my wallet on purpose ?! You can play around with your responses... but your demeanor needs to convey that she needs to be on your team... or you might have to walk. Be willing to walk out within 30 seconds or less when the Heat is around the Corner. That's a line from Heat with DeNiro & Pacino. Watch It... or watch it Again! That's the Marriage Right There!

[Jetset]

If you're feeling like it's happening, it's happening.

1) Set a budget, save out of it, and don't let her in on it. The money in your spending budget is all there is. Don't mention raises, bonuses, tax breaks, or windfalls. You want to leave the impression that you are a person of means, but that everything you have is quite an achievement.

2) She's a guest in your awesome life that you work to earn. Run out ahead of her and take the lead on fun. Schedule things that are fun for you first and foremost, and that you can include her on because you know she'll "like" it, if not love it.

3) Make sure your dick game is on point. Women often start indulging in retail therapy and trying to impress their friends when they have deeper anxieties, like not having been choked out on cock for two weeks because their husband is too stressed out at work.

4) If you're smart and attentive, you'll never pay retail for anything. Maximize every low-key benefit you can find from loyalty programs, credit card points, membership perks, and do not ever tell her you are doing this. Again, that private black car to the airport is a major achievement and she should be impressed, not feel like she's watching you clip coupons because she knows you got a 30% discount from American Express.

[Polniy_Sostav]

I also like to use the sentence "I have unlocked a special budget for this" , while in reality there is no special budget at all.

[not_dead_yet]

(01-03-2019 07:06 AM)RWIsrael Wrote:  

Any advice is appreciated as to how I can reclaim the initiative in the relationshup while not having to spend that much money.

Is it safe to assume that you have separate accounts for finances? If not, that's where I'd start. Deposit your paycheck into an account and then transfer money to her as needed for common expenses.

[RWIsrael]

(01-03-2019 09:49 AM)not_dead_yet Wrote:  

(01-03-2019 07:06 AM)RWIsrael Wrote:  

Any advice is appreciated as to how I can reclaim the initiative in the relationshup while not having to spend that much money.

Is it safe to assume that you have separate accounts for finances? If not, that's where I'd start. Deposit your paycheck into an account and then transfer money to her as needed for common expenses.

That we do. We both work and have our own accounts and our own money, which we use to pay bills and buy things individually.
We keep track of expenses on a monthly basis, as well as who paid for what (estimated).

I like the idea of preemptively suggesting cheap activities and setting a budget for it.

[EndsExpect]

(01-03-2019 10:01 AM)RWIsrael Wrote:  

That we do. We both work and have our own accounts and our own money, which we use to pay bills and buy things individually.
We keep track of expenses on a monthly basis, as well as who paid for what (estimated).
I like the idea of preemptively suggesting cheap activities and setting a budget for it.

I'm not a big fan of separate accounts. With my wife and I everything goes into one account and I control it. My wife has a login and password, but has forgotten it.

I found her a way to get free stuff off Amazon, so she doesn't bug me for stupid shopping.

I have a credit card for her with a $500 limit. I pay it at the end of every month and she spends whatever she wants within that limit. No stress for her and we save tons of money!

[Jetset]

(01-03-2019 02:23 PM)EndsExpect Wrote:  

I have a credit card for her with a $500 limit. I pay it at the end of every month and she spends whatever she wants within that limit. No stress for her and we save tons of money!

Since I mentioned American Express earlier, one thing to point out for Americans:

American Express is the only issuer I know that allows you to give an Authorized User a subaccount with a limit. The rewards points go to you, you can see everything that's spent on it, and either of you can log in and pay the bill through your own separate accounts. You can see her charges, but she can't see yours.

This is equally useful for guys who need to manage the expenses of multiple employees and guys who need to manage the expenses of multiple mistresses. I issued one for the LTR to make my supermarket runs because ain't no man got time for that.

[lunchmoney]

(01-03-2019 08:24 AM)Jetset Wrote:  

If you're feeling like it's happening, it's happening.

1) Set a budget, save out of it, and don't let her in on it. The money in your spending budget is all there is. Don't mention raises, bonuses, tax breaks, or windfalls. You want to leave the impression that you are a person of means, but that everything you have is quite an achievement.


3) Make sure your dick game is on point. Women often start indulging in retail therapy and trying to impress their friends when they have deeper anxieties, like not having been choked out on cock for two weeks because their husband is too stressed out at work.

This is gold.

Re 1.
I have lived by the broke boyfriend rule for a while when in LTR. Broke as in she never knows when large bonus checks were coming in, tax refunds, investments, etc. The only time a girlfriend assumed I had extra money was when I sold an investment property. She knew (or assumed) I was getting a decent check after closing, and in the days leading up to it gave me some of the best sex we had that entire relationship. She was setting me up to ask for a vacation, which my dumbass buckled in on.

Re 3.
I can't tell you how many married women I've met via grocery store game, bookstore game, or shopping mall game who shared after a drink or two they had not been dicked down the way they like in months/years/since they got married.

[bradz]

Rather than try to control her and spend energy trying to save $1000 / month - take that energy to make $2000/mo more. Or whatever the numbers are. Not sure what you do for a living but that’s my philosophy.

[Hypugamy]

There should be an entire subforum on marriage/LTR game. Isn't this why most men seek out game to begin with, to attempt to eventually find a wife/LTR? Short term hook-ups are almost risk-free by comparison, so it is really strange that the area where the strongest game is needed is almost completely ignored in the one place that you would think would have some answers on how to navigate.

[Meliorare93]

(01-03-2019 10:01 AM)RWIsrael Wrote:  

I like the idea of preemptively suggesting cheap activities and setting a budget for it.

don't suggest, do! Keep it mysterious so she wont know what will happen... They love that! Although the possibility exists she says she hates it...

I do this occasional... I say what she has to wear and she has to be ready to go "somewhere" on that day round that time... Then she just keeps on thinking and guessing what will happen it drives her mad of course the activity needs to be good enough to have a good effect. If the activity is boring as fuck she wont be happy...

[Ovechkin08]

The real question is this: will the extra savings you make from being stingy/cheap offset giving 50% of your assets to your wife if she becomes "unhappy" and decides to leave you? I think the big problem here is that this goal you have seems to be your goal and not a joint goal between the two of you. Why don't you explain to her the goal and get her to commit to it so it becomes a team effort? After all, she is your wife and you should have common life goals.

[Vladimir Poontang]

Whenever she wants something, why not make her earn it. That way she's trying to please you, and you avoid being the boring old grandpa. After a while she probably won't even care much about the thing itself.

[Jetset]

(01-04-2019 01:28 AM)Meliorare93 Wrote:  

Although the possibility exists she says she hates it...

Better than spending your money doing what she suggests and you hating it.

Last year I got suckered into going to hear a famous local musician from a few decades ago play before New Year's, because one of her friends told her about it. I say "famous local", as in, "famous locally". The only significant mentions of him at this point are on his own website.

I'd say 80% of the crowd was retirement age, and they had to pour free wine to get them to show up. Perfectly good musician, but there's a guy like him everywhere and I've heard plenty of his style in my life that I don't need to hear it again. I would genuinely have preferred to do nothing. She was bored to tears but local norms about this guy being a national treasure won't let her own it. She wants to go because she's supposed to want to go.

So this year she wants to go again, and I said "not interested". Her friend's husband also refused to go, so she thought they'd just meet there.

No joke: she walked out the door, I heard her car start, then I heard the engine stop a minute later, and she came back inside. She decided she didn't want to go because "it's raining". She wasn't even slightly disappointed. I gave her shit about it, encouraging her to change her mind and go. "Nooooo! You were talking about how lucky we are to be able to see him! Your friend will be there! It's just a little rain!"

This was free, but the point stands: if you don't like it, reject it. Protect your time and money, and teach her to protect your time and money, too.

[heavy]

Lotsa great responses there.

Do you have an interesting life where you stay busy with activities and friends? I think that's where I would start.

I used to be the "let's be frugal and not spend money" husband. But it wasn't that so much as I didn't have interesting things in my life and didn't have time with my friends outside of her as much.

I'm not saying that's you, but that was me, and she divorced me because of it. It was a reflection of my own emptiness.

(I'm not sure I can offer better advice than other guys, but your post resonated with me)

[Disco_Volante]

Having to constantly entertain a woman sounds horrible. When you're single, gaming is optional. When you're married, gaming is mandatory. It's like sleep is your only reprieve. Maybe I will stay single for life.

[Hypugamy]

(01-04-2019 01:07 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  

Having to constantly entertain a woman sounds horrible. When you're single, gaming is optional. When you're married, gaming is mandatory. It's like sleep is your only reprieve. Maybe I will stay single for life.

This is no joke. I work a 9-5. Theres a few guys I work with who are open about their marital issues. These are guys who've been with their woman for 20+ years. Sexless marriage, or almost a sexless marriage is a common thing, and so is the wife overspending. I don't want to get involved in people's issues, but I have made some suggestions towards creating passive dread. It takes a lot of game to get what you want out of your marriage, and many men get stuck in the plowhorse role. It's hard to say how common things are, because you never hear about the good relationships, and some guys just don't share their personal lives. Dads and older men need to mentor the young cats about the facts of marriage and relationships. However, in their defense, they didn't have the same infestation of feminist NPC programming in their women, so guys didn't need such a high level of game to thrive in a relationship.

[StrikeBack]

When I first met my wife, she was already very interested in minimalism and anti-consumerism, both of which I practice myself. She wasn't really frugal back then mostly because she's scared of anything maths and finance but she's not a spender. I lead her in everything including being frugal and financially smart, so now after 3+ years, we are both fairly frugal, with her being a homemaker.

I taught her what Financial Freedom means, that we would get to have more time for each other and for our children. As we're both Christian, it is Godly to embrace minimalism and be against consumerism. We enjoy having just enough "stuff", our possessions and desire to consume must not drive our life purpose.

I organise all of our activities and we have so much fun without spending much if any money. It's always been the case since we started dating, that our most favourite activity is walking around parks and urban areas enjoying the scenery and people watching. It was one of the main reasons for me to put a ring on her finger. We always have the most fun while usually not spending any money. Try this exercise (which I learned from Mr Money Moustache), a great Wife Material test: list the top 10 activities that bring you the most joy, from lowest cost to highest cost. Our top few cost us zero dollars, the rest are mostly inexpensive, save for travelling and even then that's mostly due to flights and accommodations.

I have the ultimate control over all of our budgets, and my wife loves running any spending by me first. If she needs any clothes for example, she only wants to go shopping with me so I buy them for her. She never goes shopping with her female friends. It's part of her desire to submit to me completely.

Now that we're building a family, she is more determined than ever to be frugal and play the best financial defense she can for our home (to borrow the phrase from The Millionaire Next Door - you should read the book) and make our dollars go further. Every time we look at spending money on something not quite needed, we think about how much that would become in 10 years time if invested for our children. It's a line of thinking we got from Mr Money Moustache, he taught his wife all of these things too.

I am not sure if you can convert a spender into a frugal woman. Personally, I think it's something you must select for at the very start of the relationship. However, ultimately a woman who is your helpmeet and plays financial defense for your home has to be a Godly woman who completely submits to you, so you should lead strong, stay on course and say no to her moments of silliness or rebelliousness. My wife sometimes asks for stuff just to hear me say No to her, because she loves hearing it. She wants to know, deep down and all the time, that I'm still her strong leader and protector, who can lead her away from temptations and towards God, and protect her from everything including the fallen side of herself.

[the-dream]

(01-03-2019 02:23 PM)EndsExpect Wrote:  

I found her a way to get free stuff off Amazon, so she doesn't bug me for stupid shopping.

Care to explain?

[Avoy]

(01-04-2019 10:31 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

I am not sure if you can convert a spender into a frugal woman. Personally, I think it's something you must select for at the very start of the relationship.

This thread in general is gold. I'd consider myself a frugal dater -- and always suggest or pick what we're going to do (based on interest and how much I want to spend on any particular activity). Lots of great tips here for controlling cash/expenditures in a joint income marriage. However, the above clicked with me. It follows the same logic of: "You can't turn a hoe into a housewife." I quickly drop girls who show signs of wanting to be wined and dined, taken on exotic trips, or materialistic (designer everything). Better to find a girl who just enjoys being in your company doing any random thing. This is the only kind of girl I would ever consider having a LTR with.

[Graft]

A woman's lifestyle habit should be pretty much exactly the same as yours:

1. Going out to dinner with you
2. Taking vacations with you
3. Events, nightlife, concerts etc
4. boob jobs, makeup, birth control, anything resembling you fucking her better

It should not be funding clothes, expensive mixed drinks when you're out, cars, anything for her exclusively.

She's welcome to be a +1 in my life, but I'm not doing the gift buying thing except for holidays.

[Avoy]

(01-03-2019 07:06 AM)RWIsrael Wrote:  

She wants bars, movies, holidays abroad just like all her girlfriends, new shit on Amazon etc.

This is the other the angle of this topic I find interesting. What to do about your wife wanting to keep up the Joneses? Women are very easily influenced by their social circle, the shows they watch, and the media they read. Women love comparing what they've got with their group of friends. If anyone is telling them to leave their husband, it's usually her girlfriends encouraging her to trade up. It's a bit hard in this day and age to keep women sheltered from what we would consider negative influences (though I'm pretty vocal and strict about behavior I don't like). I'm genuinely curious what the married guys think and how they've dealt with this.