[Heuristics]

Failure.

It’s one word that encompasses the majority of human existence. I have been having trouble coming to terms with it. I will explain. Striving to be a better person, you acutely experience failure more than the average person because you lessen your tolerance of it; it is your enemy. You have the realization that so much of the normal human condition is characterized by failure, or in other cases, mediocrity. All people fail, but you only realize how much it happens when you become results-oriented. Such is the way of pick-up.

My first set of the night was this girl who had been eying my wing. Her name was Claire. 19, university student studying Marketing, brunette with a cute girl next door look. At least 5 glances at him that I was able to count (she was two tables away from us). Nothing was going to happen, and the wing wasn’t approaching. I had danced with another girl who was nice enough, or whatever. I get back to the table and the girl is eying us, which I will explain later.

She’s seated at the table with two decent looking friends. I’m trying to help my wing. Some old guy comes up to their table to hit on the group. I see the girl positioning, or maybe more accurately, her body language opening up to us, and closing on the old dude. Without any lack of reservation, I call out to her, “hey, come over here.” That was all it took. She bridges the gap, less than 10 feet and she’s standing in front of us at our table. I say, “take a seat.” She immediately tries to qualify it with something to the tune of, “I wasn’t planning on sitting.” I reply, “you’ve already decided you’re going to be with us, so I don’t even have to tell you what to do.” Part of me says that was me being in charge of the situation, and self-aware. She sits.

I’m actually doing this to help my wing, he would not act on this girl’s IOIs. The talk is situational, she was scared or more accurately creeped out by the older guy. I do the polite thing and introduce her to my wing. She’s not interested. I should have paid a lot more attention to the things unsaid. She was into me.

This is where I’m banging my head against the wall. She approached us, because I gave her plausible deniability. We get along well. She is asking me questions after I say stuff to her. She is paying exactly zero attention to my wing. I don’t know how long the interaction was, maybe 10 minutes.

I am coming off more confident these days. She says, “you like to be right don’t you?” I say, “yeah I do.” And I struggle on the second part of my response. It came out weak. I don’t remember what I said. She ends, saying, “I’ll be back later.” I fucked up. I fucked up a set that walked into my lap. I really fucked up.

I don’t know what I’m doing. It feels like amateur hour. For the whole week I don’t go out. Last night, night proceeding, I go out, and no sets happen. That was warmup. And here I am, fucking up the fourth quarter.

It’s sickening. It is the worst thing to have a woman say shit like that. I can take it all day from men, but to have a woman say that is ego-killing. Keeping in mind, I’ve had men tell me I’m stupid, I know nothing, I’m too young to have any perspective, etc. There may be truth to any of their criticisms of me, but the reason they don’t fundamentally hurt me is that maybe they do know more than me. In which case, they are just trying to help me become a better person, or to understand how to improve. Such criticisms I get from men, I have to believe are the result of good intentions. So I take them to heart and work on becoming better. I like to be right, and when I was younger I was called arrogant. I was fundamentally misunderstood. I can spot intelligence quickly, and to be called arrogant is people just not understanding how I work as a person. I can get along with anyone, but when shit like this is said, it hurts. I don’t like to be right, per se, I just want to know the truth, or, to arrive it. And so when I know it, and people are spouting bullshit, I am quick to correct people. I guess that’s my weakness.

Not all sets are created equally. This one burned my subconscious. It got under my skin in a way that no set has done since I started getting into approaching again. After a lot of personal pain about my failures, I decided I was going to do something about my failures.

I left the venue thereafter, and went to my car and pounded the steering wheel in anger. Anger that is a long time coming. Anger that I messed up again. Anger that I can’t create a cinematic experience for a girl (which to be honest is completely unrealistic and extremely hurtful for it to be expected of us by society at large, and women in particular), or be James Bond with a quick witticism that makes her pull off her clothes. It doesn’t work like that, that’s what I’m convinced of. Anger that the softball I get thrown doesn’t land with the bat.

I have work to do. And more failure, inevitably. As I told my wing before I drove home, “better luck next week.”

I work on improving my life, holistically speaking every day, and I can tell you ever day, the one thing not falling in place is women. While this is trying my patience, I am convinced tomorrow will be the first day of the rest of my life, and whatever that may bring with it. I sit here with a match on Bumble that I got while driving home and she already sent me a message. I have 0 expectations but I’ll take any consolation prize I can get.

[Heuristics]

To keep it brief, my approaches tonight.

1: Warm-up. Very hard to open-- some situational shit, etc. Maybe a few minutes of talking. Said her friend is arriving, I asked her to dance. She defers. Later I see her with a guy.

2: I'm outside ripping a heater. Literally as soon as I walk to a table, the girl is complementing my shoes. That is a perfect segway into conversation and that's I need to open. Literally a few minutes later some guy tries to open here while I talk to her. Blow it off. He leaves, came on too strong. The girl walks by me again and says "i like your shoes". I reply let's talk about it. Back inside I meet up with her and talk to her. Offer a dance, she defers. Return later, she starts on "I'm too old for you... etc... I say whatever, we'll see after we dance. I could analyze this set more but this about covers it. I may see her again who knows.

3: Outside I'm gaming the 2nd girl and another girl sits on my fucking lap. She's hammered though. Don't push it. omitting details. Inside i see her walk by, reopen her, etc but she's not very comprehensible at this point.

4: There's this cute blonde chick. I have a winggirl tonight, don't know how that happened. Ugh, bitterness right now writing this... Really fucked up this set.... She talks to her, while I'm not there, and the girl lights up. Giddy at the prospect of talking to me and getting to dance with me (so I was told). She approaches me, walking literally halfway across the bar at that point. And I ask her to dance. She was like super nice. Talk. I think we danced again. And then her drunk female friend starts to cockblocking and I'm not seated at the right table, rather I'm adjacent to them at the next table. Horrible logistics frankly. I try to isolate. Talk to her, and she says she'll talk later.

5: Girl with short hair I open a group set alone of 3. Instantly my target. "i'm trying to avoid my ex, she's here." I riff on that, and surprisingly all the girls open up. I need to use openers more like that. I had short hairs attention. She seemed pretty open. Talk. Dance. Talk. Dance again. Talk once more. Dance again. Talk. She's turned away from me. Seems closed at this point. I should have pushed through, put I had a sense of momentum going and decided to move on. I'm sure I'll see her again. I get the distinct impression she is here often.

6: My wing tells me to approach this girl. I say something like, "let's skip the formalities you look bored, and now you are no longer gonna be." I just plowed the fuck through. Try to keep it light and interesting. Dance with her. More talk, get closer. Dance again. More talk, get closer. Get physical. Try not to overthink the whole process. Says something about leaving I hand her the phone effortlessly and get her number.

There are a lot of mistakes here from what I can see and from what my wingman and wingwoman said. I'm just gonna try to sleep on it and try the same venue tomorrow. By all accounts most these sets were pretty open.

7th set?: I'm outside smoking some girls start complmementing my shoes and get down on hands and knees to look at them. Anyway I didn't push it because they were below my generous standards. I'm wearing these shoes from now on.

Ima level here. Frankly I think the advise to get a SNL is horrible. I think they don't happen much. Unless they happen as a result of tinder. I'm somewhere conservative, can't discount that. I was not trying for numbers. Not at all. Granted I needed to escalate more of these sets, etc. But odds are I may see many of these girls tomorrow or in the near future... Fuck.

Just to keep in perspective my wing's SNLs have happened from Tinder and Strippers respectively as far as I know. His number has to be about 10 since we met. Maybe, maybe one or two snls from fat chicks (read:not fuckable at all)...

Note: this is day 21 of no fap for me. I do feel really confident and my approach anxiety is non-existant. I'll keep this up for the forseeable future. I was posted at the bar, and my usual bartender, young female i should note, was laughing at all the shit I said. Never, repeat never has that happened before. Maybe it is just increased confident, but I was a bit surprised I wasn't even that funny I thought. But then again, my wing was laughing at all the shit I said too... I hope I can keep the confidence up.

[Captain Gh]

^ Keep this up! With a couple of these girls, it seems you simply need to create tight rapport... and run dum don't fuck up game once LMR sets in... and you're set to get laid my man!

Approaching seems to no longer be a sticking point for you... so now focus on making sure you're creating Tight Rapport once you SMS on insta date these leads

[Heuristics]

(04-13-2019 02:16 PM)Captain Gh Wrote:  

^ Keep this up! With a couple of these girls, it seems you simply need to create tight rapport... and run dum don't fuck up game once LMR sets in... and you're set to get laid my man!

Approaching seems to no longer be a sticking point for you... so now focus on making sure you're creating Tight Rapport once you SMS on insta date these leads

It's a fucking nightmare the nightgame environment is too loud and other guys are approaching, but they're doing like say one set... Dancing, etc and then trying to sit with them.

Most girls here don't smoke so it's really out of the cards to pull them outside to smoke, especially since it was a bit colder last night.

Granted in this venue there is a bar off the dancefloor that is quieter, also some pool tables and can have a conversation. ABout logistics, I haven't been thinking enough about them. Thus i need to pull these girls after dancing and talking to the quieter part of the bar to get them a drink. I can't play pool worth a shit though, that sucks. Last night actually was friday night, which is an off night, so called "date night". Saturday night is always better and there are more girls to open. I think also people drink more on saturday night.

I closed several of these sets to early, and the ones that were more mixed in terms of the reception I was getting, I should have tried a number close or an instagram close. I feel like I walked away empty handed last night. I wasn't trying for numbers, but by the time of the 6th set I realized I'm probably not gonna get laid, and went for a number.

Need to go out earlier, like 7pm rather than 9. And work the venue when it's quieter and there are fewer guys there.

Thanks for the info.

edit: just realized there was an 8th set I did, I had trouble keeping track of them because I talked to a lot of girls, although as soon as I came home I wrote this up before passing out

Set 8: My friends are like, "approach Heuristics". I'm like it's all good. I will. I walk across the whole fucking bar to these two cute younger girls at who are seated. I ask one of them to dance. we dance. Talk, seems ok. They're usually always wondering how i ended up in this place, so she asks about that. Anyway, her friend I ask to dance. I dance. Then we talk. I had a good convo going and then they turn and talk to each other. This shit always awkwards me out. After a short amount of time I excuse myself.

I'm sure the error here was not pushing through and ejecting too soon.

[Repo]

You say other guys are dancing with them and then sitting down with them almost as if that's a negative thing, is that not what your doing? In smaller towns that can be a solid strategy. Warm them up, get another drink or two in them, and then bounce with them. I take it these arent New York nightclubs your going to.

My suggestion would be some nights try focusing more on quality sets vs quantity, and push as far as you can get each one to get them home or at least bounce to a new venue with you. Dont be bailing from a set because you saw another girl you also want to talk to, bail when you have pushed it as far as you can and it's clear she isnt taking the bait.

Dance with them, sit them down to small talk and get them comfortable while they get another drink, then hit them with the "let's go back to my spot to smoke weed/check out my record collection/etc". It feels like your focusing too much on the front end of the interaction, versus the closing part which is the most important.

[Heuristics]

(04-13-2019 02:59 PM)Repo Wrote:  

You say other guys are dancing with them and then sitting down with them almost as if that's a negative thing, is that not what your doing? In smaller towns that can be a solid strategy. Warm them up, get another drink or two in them, and then bounce with them. I take it these arent New York nightclubs your going to.

My suggestion would be some nights try focusing more on quality sets vs quantity, and push as far as you can get each one to get them home or at least bounce to a new venue with you. Dont be bailing from a set because you saw another girl you also want to talk to, bail when you have pushed it as far as you can and it's clear she isnt taking the bait.

Dance with them, sit them down to small talk and get them comfortable while they get another drink, then hit them with the "let's go back to my spot to smoke weed/check out my record collection/etc". It feels like your focusing too much on the front end of the interaction, versus the closing part which is the most important.

Yes that is the near the norm. Dance and then try to sit down to talk. I do that sometimes, and rest of time I try to dance first and sort of judge how the interaction is going. Which is maybe better because dancing is escalation in some sense.

I haven't bought any girls drinks. Old habits die hard. I offered a girl one the other night, but she got a drink from her friend. Tonight, i'm going ot focus on taking each set to logical conclusion. And try to work through them. Maybe I posted unclearly, but basiclly most the sets i stayed with for a good 10 or so minutes, at minimum.

I agree with your final statement too. Given how well I think last night went (8 sets or so, talked to i don't know maybe 20 or so girls). I have a lot to work on, and tonight is a better night to go out anyway.

Thanks for input man.

Judging from what happened last week, I'm doing way better this week. I think I only managed two sets last week on Sat. night. And the girl approached me basiclly. And I was mad that I fucked it up... Anyway, I talked to my wing last night, sort of having a debriefing from last week, and he said it was a real player move to call over a girl to the table and tell her to take a seat. He gave me mad props for that.

This time last week I was in my car feeling utterly dejected because I let a good set sink where a girl approached me.. That was rare for me, stuff like that never happens to me. And then last night, at least 3 separate girls approach me. I must be doing something right...

My wing says it is crucial to dance as much as possible (yeah not a nyc style club), in order to have that abundance mentality and to get girl's attention.

It's wierd, I think at this point my wing is trying to pay me back for all the knowledge I've given him in the short time we've known each other.. I think I helped him-- for example I taught him a bit about IOIs, women's body language, and how their conversational lines determine if they're expressing interest in you. He was actually a bit baffled when i explained to him some positive interactions we'd had in sets where he'd missed the girls subconsious cues, etc. So then he went and read-up on IOIs, and believe it or not, I think that alone helped him a lot.

Also very bizarre, I was rolling with my wing for at least part of last night, and first some girl comes up to us, and starts acting like we're gay or something. Weird... and then outside, people start talking to us randomly, like unprompted... Is this the result of like some congruency we've developed that people pick up on? Hasn't really happened to us before when we're gaming...

[Repo]

Ok, serious question, are you good at dancing? Or more specifically, are you as good at dancing as your wing?

Because yes dancing with them is a great strategy. . . if you are good at it or can keep them engaged and having fun. Try to think about which stage your typically losing them in.

Lastly, I'm not saying you should be buying them drinks, but buying a round of shots never hurts if shes feeling you.

[Heuristics]

(04-13-2019 03:20 PM)Repo Wrote:  

Ok, serious question, are you good at dancing? Or more specifically, are you as good at dancing as your wing?

Because yes dancing with them is a great strategy. . . if you are good at it or can keep them engaged and having fun. Try to think about which stage your typically losing them in.

Lastly, I'm not saying you should be buying them drinks, but buying a round of shots never hurts if shes feeling you.

I can dance, do so almost every week, but still not good at all. My wing doesn't dance to this type of music. He does dance to hip hop though. I hate dancing though.... Really hate it. I may need to be taking dance lessons.

[Heuristics]

(04-13-2019 03:20 PM)Repo Wrote:  

Ok, serious question, are you good at dancing? Or more specifically, are you as good at dancing as your wing?

Because yes dancing with them is a great strategy. . . if you are good at it or can keep them engaged and having fun. Try to think about which stage your typically losing them in.

Lastly, I'm not saying you should be buying them drinks, but buying a round of shots never hurts if shes feeling you.

I guess it would be the mid-game where I'm not making it sexual enough or escalating enough.. Hard to explain, but maybe in some of my more detailed sets you can see where things bog down. When I try to close the connection never seems that good. That or I need to isolate better.

[Heuristics]

Off night, no girls would dance with me. all 5 of my sets fell flat. Nothing good to share. Friday was a series of golden opportunities and blew all of them. Gamed basically sober. I suspect that didn't help the vibe I was giving off. Venue was too crowded, which actually didn't help me at all. Will update again next week.

[andydandy1976]

Just curious are you in no PMO mode??

[Heuristics]

(04-15-2019 11:30 AM)andydandy1976 Wrote:  

Just curious are you in no PMO mode??

Yeah I just came off of 37 days of nofap.

[cruzinV]

Do you consider yourself incel? I'm approaching my 1 year sexless anniversary and have had several multi-year droughts throughout my life so I consider myself incel unless I can get semi-regular sex, which I would define as 1 sex act every 4-5 months.

[Heuristics]

(05-01-2019 01:47 AM)cruzinV Wrote:  

Do you consider yourself incel? I'm approaching my 1 year sexless anniversary and have had several multi-year droughts throughout my life so I consider myself incel unless I can get semi-regular sex, which I would define as 1 sex act every 4-5 months.

nah, could get on tinder and go dumpster diving... Don't drink enough to do that anymore.

[whiteknightrises]

So you haven't gotten laid yet?

My suggestion: hit up someone (preferably IRL in your city) that knows what they're doing

[Heuristics]

(05-01-2019 02:11 PM)whiteknightrises Wrote:  

So you haven't gotten laid yet?

My suggestion: hit up someone (preferably IRL in your city) that knows what they're doing

I have a wing, but the thing ends up being that he gets more attention.

I suspect i need to relax a bit.

Also, the place I'm living in is not the best for game, and i've only done a little daygaming. The vast majority has been nightgame.

[Repo]

Going dumpster diving and banging a girl or two on Tinder would probably help you relax a bit.

Also, the girls who didnt dance with you, where they already dancing when they turned you down?

[Heuristics]

(05-01-2019 02:45 PM)Repo Wrote:  

Going dumpster diving and banging a girl or two on Tinder would probably help you relax a bit.

Also, the girls who didnt dance with you, where they already dancing when they turned you down?

I'm going to have to get blindingly drunk i have a stickup, serious one, about fat girls.

And no, they weren't dancing.

[Repo]

You should be able to date down a bit on Tinder without completely dumpster diving.

The reason I asked if they were dancing was, I would only ever ask a girl to dance if she was clearly giving indicators of interest. You shouldnt have such a low rate dance with you because you should already know if they are feeling you before you ask. Do you think you misread their interest in you, or were you just barging ahead without paying attention or caring?

[Heuristics]

(05-01-2019 04:04 PM)Repo Wrote:  

You should be able to date down a bit on Tinder without completely dumpster diving.

The reason I asked if they were dancing was, I would only ever ask a girl to dance if she was clearly giving indicators of interest. You shouldnt have such a low rate dance with you because you should already know if they are feeling you before you ask. Do you think you misread their interest in you, or were you just barging ahead without paying attention or caring?

I think the problem is mass approaching. I just need to dial back and start looking for IOIs before approaching.

[Repo]

Yeah that was kind of my guess. That was also the idea behind my earlier post about trying for quality sets. .. as you work through your sets pay attention to her body language and try to feel out whether their feeling you or not.

I think the reason you have been going through such a long dry streak is because without paying close attention to how they react to you, you wont be able to learn exactly where you are going wrong. If you get the initial indicator of interest and blow the set, you should be able to rewind mentally to exactly where you went wrong, and then not do that thing again, or adjust it slightly.

[Checkmat]

I find it hard to believe that a 6’3” white dude who is game-aware can approach this much, for 4 months, and not get laid.

You do a lot of night game and swipe apps. Either you aren’t taking the low-hanging fruit or something is missing. For the amount of approaching and swiping you’ve been doing, you should have at least nailed a 5 or 6 by now.

What do you think the issue is?

[Heuristics]

(05-01-2019 10:35 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  

I find it hard to believe that a 6’3” white dude who is game-aware can approach this much, for 4 months, and not get laid.

You do a lot of night game and swipe apps. Either you aren’t taking the low-hanging fruit or something is missing. For the amount of approaching and swiping you’ve been doing, you should have at least nailed a 5 or 6 by now.

What do you think the issue is?

I would call it extremely bad luck coupled with some work related stress, and paralysis by overanalysis. Keeping in mind, I have only being going out one or two nights a week recently. My wingman has told me to slow down and relax, which I have tried to work on recently. I just don't relax, that is the problem, i get all worked up like it's a big sporting match and then get nervous and all that.

My calibration is completely weird. I've been all over the globe the past year, and socially it makes me a bit eccentric, or a bit of a loose cannon. I wouldn't know how else to describe it.

Yeah, I'm basically 6-3", but I get super nervous around girls even though I don't freeze up.

On to tinder.... I suspect i fucked up first of all putting on shitty photos on there. and then not having plus. I ended up getting plus or whatever, but it only lasted a week or so, or maybe I got the premium version of bumble. Keep in mind there is only a finite amount of girls in my smaller city. So likely need to get a new phone and start over. With premium.

[Checkmat]

And...He’s banned. What?

We’ll never know if he gets laid :*(

[cruzinV]

damn i enjoyed his posts. RIP