[No More Mr. Soy Boy]

I thought earlier about when I've actually sensed the most attraction ever from a woman. Apart from times when I've been lucky to have pre-selection, it has been during times when I have done some type of AMOG and fucked over some other poor guy.

Actually, the best wingman I have ever had wasn't even out as my wingman. Once, this guy in a club had been chatting to the same girl as I had.

He soon started to act very threatened by me meanwhile I just laughed him in the face and walked around the club and was talking to different women meanwhile this guy followed her and tried to convince her that I was a bad guy. It just seemed to make her even more attracted to me. At the end of the night, he had seen us make out and screamed desperately in her face that she shouldn't go home with me, which she probably only did thanks to him.

Here's the point though:

I almost always roll solo, but when I've been out with wings we've only focused on introducing each other as friends to girls.
But don't you guys also think it could be smart pretend to be that jealous beta chump instead when out with friends?

Say you have your wingman walking up to the girl you like (while you hide in the corner), pretending to be a fairly attractive guy who just begins the conversation with her.
Yet he has to appear to be a weaker man than you and like he doesn't know you well.

After a while, you walk into the conversation like a chad and pull an AMOG comment on him, bounce back and start to talk to different girls meanwhile he starts to try and convince her what a bad man you are cause he has seen you with almost all the girls in the club (preselection).

Good idea perhaps?

[Estetica]

Having to get your friend to be a dweeb on purpose to make yourself look cool

Why not just improve yourself so you actually are the fly nigga instead of relying on orchestrating theatrics to give yourself the appearance of value?

Some questions:
- Are you counting on your friend showing up at the bar just to act like a loser, then leaving?

- Your friend's image is shot for the night. Why would he still be with the group if you aren't friends? 'Alright bud thanks for getting me in - now scram'?

- You mention talking to other girls - why not just do that naturally without sabotaging your friend?

- Is he a friend or a lackey? Do you really see this as something a 'friend' would ask of a supposed friend?

A wingman is meant to be a teammate. Y'all win or lose together; sabotaging a friend is something you see regular dweebs do to make themselves look better by comparison because they can't pull their own weight. Your language is telling: 'walk into the conversation like a chad', 'he has to appear to be a weaker man than you', 'pretending to be a fairly attractive guy'. These are the schemes of a phony.

I recommend improving yourself so you don't have to resort to wearing the costume of a fly nigga. Stop treating your friends as tools to get what you want - eventually you will be forced to carry your own weight and you'll find yourself incapable when your crutch is gone. Placing hypothetical women above a 'friendship' is bottom of the barrel type of behavior.

[No More Mr. Soy Boy]

(12-11-2018 07:34 PM)Estetica Wrote:  

...

I think you just might have reminded me of why I usually prefer to roll solo haha.

No. But I mean I mostly go out just as a way to socialize, troll strangers and get different funny reactions out of them, joke around and do things that make myself laugh, while at the same time find a hot girl I can bring home.

I love practical style jokes which you often see on these Youtube prank videos and that's more of how I look at this. Not much different to when this Vitaly picks up girls pretending to be a cop, a doctor or something.
I guess that's why I don't roll that well with many guys because I feel as if they're often too stiff, shy or take nightlife too serious in a way to be able to do stuff like this.

I would have no problem to make a fool of myself in a club and act as a beta chump and troll a girl that I was jealous of my buddy.
In fact, I rather see it as a hilarious thing to do. With my closest friends we've often fucked with each other and sometimes sabotaged sets for each other in a light-hearted way just for fun and said stuff like the other is a virgin just to see how the other one deals with it. But I guess that dynamic between men is fading away in today's PC culture.

(12-11-2018 07:34 PM)Estetica Wrote:  

Why not just improve yourself so you actually are the fly nigga instead of relying on orchestrating theatrics to give yourself the appearance of value?

And what if one is already improving himself then? And there's not always a girl has the chance to see the value of a guy just by a short approach anyway.
The whole thing about "game" is basically about a faking it until you make it kind of thing anyway. But if you will, in my example here, the one "pretending" is actually not the guy who's getting laid, but his friend.

We probably just have different personalities where you seem to see this like some kind of the three musketeers thing where game is serious business and it's against the rules to ever roleplay with your buddies mostly just out of fun, while at the same time get laid.

[tr1cky]

Theres a scene in the wire about this.

Right before bunk moreland is going home and "drunkly" goes up and hits on a girl.

Mcnulty swoops in 30 seconds later to save the day and tell his friend to stop and get home safe.

Game on

[BlastbeatCasanova]

Girls are perceptive, so unless you and your buddy are good actors on the way probably won’t work. Sounds like a lot of effort anyway

[Estetica]

(12-11-2018 09:05 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  

(12-11-2018 07:34 PM)Estetica Wrote:  

...

I think you just might have reminded me of why I usually prefer to roll solo haha.

No. But I mean I mostly go out just as a way to socialize, troll strangers and get different funny reactions out of them, joke around and do things that make myself laugh, while at the same time find a hot girl I can bring home.

I love practical style jokes which you often see on these Youtube prank videos and that's more of how I look at this. Not much different to when this Vitaly picks up girls pretending to be a cop, a doctor or something.
I guess that's why I don't roll that well with many guys because I feel as if they're often too stiff, shy or take nightlife too serious in a way to be able to do stuff like this.

I would have no problem to make a fool of myself in a club and act as a beta chump and troll a girl that I was jealous of my buddy.
In fact, I rather see it as a hilarious thing to do. With my closest friends we've often fucked with each other and sometimes sabotaged sets for each other in a light-hearted way just for fun and said stuff like the other is a virgin just to see how the other one deals with it. But I guess that dynamic between men is fading away in today's PC culture.

(12-11-2018 07:34 PM)Estetica Wrote:  

Why not just improve yourself so you actually are the fly nigga instead of relying on orchestrating theatrics to give yourself the appearance of value?

And what if one is already improving himself then? And there's not always a girl has the chance to see the value of a guy just by a short approach anyway.
The whole thing about "game" is basically about a faking it until you make it kind of thing anyway. But if you will, in my example here, the one "pretending" is actually not the guy who's getting laid, but his friend.

We probably just have different personalities where you seem to see this like some kind of the three musketeers thing where game is serious business and it's against the rules to ever roleplay with your buddies mostly just out of fun, while at the same time get laid.

Nah, I don't buy it. This reeks of Mystery-era nonsense that 'works all the time' online but is really just a product of dweebs lying to each other on the internet. A lot of what you have to say doesn't really add up as well:

_The initial post treated it as a serious proposal, but now it's just a prank/joke?

_'Fake it 'til you make it' as a concept means adopting positive (towards your goals) behaviour as a means of overcoming fear until you internalize it. Two problems here - you are 'faking' being a clown and you wouldn't really need to pretend if you were just 'joking around' as you later claimed.

_Don't know how 'PC Culture' is relevant here aside from being one of those terms thrown in to win an internet argument.

I get it, bud, we've all been through that Mystery phase. We also come to terms with the fact that it's just a crutch that trains you to act as a clown (it's heavy on routines, canned openers, and manufactured incidents that do most of the legwork for you) and grow out of it. There's a lot of real value to be gained from this community but we have to sift through the jabroni circus acts to get to it. So many people fall prey to those 'gurus' and either end up spending tens of thousands of dollars on bootcamps or becoming disillusioned and just giving up on themselves.

Think of the people you see pulling consistently (regular humans, not celebs or etc) - do you see any of them doing things like this? Why do you think this is the case? They are biologically the same human being as you are yet nobody finds it necessary to become an actor every time they go out. Any PUA guru-type will tell you that running routines like this throughout the night will eventually lead to success. What they won't tell you is that's just due to it being a numbers game and literally walking up to a woman and saying 'Hi' will also lead to success eventually. So you employ their nonsense, and feel validated and pin the success on their Russell Brand method acting instead of realizing it's just a matter of putting yourself out there enough times.

I don't expect you to admit you were wrong and not double-down here but I'm not interested in winning an internet argument. I'm hoping to save you thousands of dollars, years of wasted time, and ideally better your life. Follow respectable members of the community (there are tons out there) and disregard the charlatans and their clown acts. You don't need a fuzzy hat and a three-part play to pull a girl. I hope you think on it and find real growth in your life.

[No More Mr. Soy Boy]

(12-15-2018 06:40 PM)Estetica Wrote:  

Nah, I don't buy it. This reeks of Mystery-era nonsense that 'works all the time' online but is really just a product of dweebs lying to each other on the internet. A lot of what you have to say doesn't really add up as well:

Where did anyone say anything about something working all the time here?

(12-15-2018 06:40 PM)Estetica Wrote:  

initial post treated it as a serious proposal, but now it's just a prank/joke?

No, never have I treated nightlife like something very serious. It surprised me when you talked about "but your friend's image is shot for the night" and "it's about being a teammate" when this is mostly just banter and something interesting I want to try.
Hell, the only guys I've met that takes it that serious have been nerds following PUAs of the Mystery type. Seems like you're trying to project something here.

(12-15-2018 06:40 PM)Estetica Wrote:  

_'Fake it 'til you make it' as a concept means adopting positive (towards your goals) behaviour as a means of overcoming fear until you internalize it. Two problems here - you are 'faking' being a clown and you wouldn't really need to pretend if you were just 'joking around' as you later claimed.

To me, it sounds mostly like some fun banter to do with your buddy and also interesting since I know from experience how much women like that. But for you, it's apparently not just being a complete faker, it's being a clown, a fraud and not being a true teammate and all this?
I think you're making a very big deal of what is in fact just making an AMOG on your buddy.

(12-15-2018 06:40 PM)Estetica Wrote:  

I get it, bud, we've all been through that Mystery phase.

Wait, are you saying you don't paint your nails and wear a magician hat?

(12-15-2018 06:40 PM)Estetica Wrote:  

There's a lot of real value to be gained from this community but we have to sift through the jabroni circus acts to get to it. So many people fall prey to those 'gurus' and either end up spending tens of thousands of dollars on bootcamps or becoming disillusioned and just giving up on themselves.

Think of the people you see pulling consistently (regular humans, not celebs or etc) - do you see any of them doing things like this? Why do you think this is the case?

I've met one older latino man in my life. He was in his late 60's and is the biggest personality I've ever met and the biggest influence in my life and thanks to him, I would years later understand the red pill. A true narcissist, a ladie's man with extreme charisma, who would troll people on a daily basis and truly not give a fuck whatsoever and do shit like this.

Most people though? Yes, they are usually trying to act cool to impress others and post selfies and show other people how they have such a great time out and are usually stiff and boring and would probably never try something like this.

(12-15-2018 06:40 PM)Estetica Wrote:  

They are biologically the same human being as you are yet nobody finds it necessary to become an actor every time they go out. Any PUA guru-type will tell you that running routines like this throughout the night will eventually lead to success.

Interesting. I've been to pretty much every single big club you could name in Europe on finestclub.com. I'd say you're completely wrong.

Most people are status-obsessed actors and actresses when they're out who'll try to pretend like they're so fucking cooler and above than everyone else when they're just working at some shitty average job during the days anyway.
And so many guys you'll see in the club are stiff and try to act too cool for school and will get offended if you make a lighthearted joke.

Very few people are able to joke around and would risk making a fool of themselves just for the banter and helping a buddy getting laid. The funny paradox is that those people who actually cares the least shit about it, end up being seen as the most cool.

I've also had nights out where with my buddy where we pretended it was his birthday and was served a free bottle and had people singing and shit.
For us that was just a little fun memory but maybe we should have given it more thought about how big frauds we were.

(12-15-2018 06:40 PM)Estetica Wrote:  

I don't expect you to admit you were wrong and not double-down here but I'm not interested in winning an internet argument. I'm hoping to save you thousands of dollars, years of wasted time, and ideally better your life. Follow respectable members of the community (there are tons out there) and disregard the charlatans and their clown acts. You don't need a fuzzy hat and a three-part play to pull a girl. I hope you think on it and find real growth in your life.

Don't worry. I simply express my opinions and even if this thread turned into something else it's been interesting and surprising that someone can have such a different viewpoint and take it so seriously when I think it's pretty harmless myself.

But you also started to make many assumptions here, like I would used canned openers and use some Mystery when I've never even bothered reading about it, ever.
Almost like I was supposed to defend myself and prove myself how I don't. If something, I think that is exactly a nice trick to try and "win an argument online". Ridiculous.

[Cobra]

Why don't you actually try to be alpha instead of having your friend help you pretend to be one?

[Estetica]

(12-15-2018 08:23 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  

But you also started to make many assumptions here, like I would used canned openers and use some Mystery when I've never even bothered reading about it, ever.

Quote:

Wait, are you saying you don't paint your nails and wear a magician hat?

Quote:

Hell, the only guys I've met that takes it that serious have been nerds following PUAs of the Mystery type.

Okay, Mr. AMOG. Never heard of 'some Mystery' in my life either

[No More Mr. Soy Boy]

(12-15-2018 08:31 PM)Cobra Wrote:  

Why don't you actually try to be alpha instead of having your friend help you pretend to be one?

If you're interested, I explained the viewpoint in the previous post.

(12-15-2018 08:38 PM)Estetica Wrote:  

(12-15-2018 08:23 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  

But you also started to make many assumptions here, like I would used canned openers and use some Mystery when I've never even bothered reading about it, ever.
Almost like I was supposed to defend myself and prove myself how I don't. If something, I think that is exactly a nice trick to try and "win an argument online". Ridiculous.

Quote:

Wait, are you saying you don't paint your nails and wear a magician hat?

Quote:

Hell, the only guys I've met that takes it that serious have been nerds following PUAs of the Mystery type.

Okay, Mr. AMOG. Never heard of 'some Mystery' in my life either

^ You do realize that you actually proved my point there, right?

Ok, you didn't respond to any of the arguments I made earlier and instead of answering the topic you try to make it about me here. Then you try to project it's me trying to "win an argument online". Weak.

[Estetica]

You can take it that way. Or you can take it as a fella saying the cornball schtick is a dead-end road and rather than portraying that you're that nigga you should strive to be that nigga. Your choice.

There isn't really a debate or arguments to attack - I just don't think the cornball route is the way to go. And I get it - rationalization kicks in and the reflex action is to justify ourselves. It's human. I'm not trying to be mean to you, just helping to save you some time.

[No More Mr. Soy Boy]

(12-15-2018 10:09 PM)Estetica Wrote:  

You can take it that way. Or you can take it as a fella saying the cornball schtick is a dead-end road and rather than portraying that you're that nigga you should strive to be that nigga. Your choice.

There isn't really a debate or arguments to attack - I just don't think the cornball route is the way to go. And I get it - rationalization kicks in and the reflex action is to justify ourselves. It's human. I'm not trying to be mean to you, just helping to save you some time.

Ok, I think it's interesting how women's attraction seems to get triggered when they see a man dominating another man and that's more what I wanted to discuss here and I explained what I thought what a fun way of experimenting this with a wingman and how I think it could also be an effective way if you wanted to get laid.

I think that could have lead to a more interesting discussion than me just explaining to you that this got nothing to do with sabotaging a wingman's image for the night and stuff like that. And meanwhile, I don't believe you're trying to "save me some time" as much as you're trying to win an argument online, I appreciate it. I really do.

[Estetica]

If that's your impression then it is what it is. Good luck!

[RatInTheWoods]

Reminds me of the opening scene in "Wild Card" where Jason Statham lets his boss amog him for the girl.

[Rushmore]

(12-15-2018 08:23 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  

You are 'faking' being a clown and you wouldn't really need to pretend if you were just 'joking around' as you later claimed.

(....)

The funny paradox is that those people who actually cares the least shit about it, end up being seen as the most cool.

++1

I would especially be wary about the "just joking around" explanation later. But maybe it depends upon the cultural context. In the U.S., people make jokes and then say "Just kidding'" whereas in Britain the same joke would be delivered with a deadpan expression, and in Russia the joke would be answered with a severe group beating before the punchline (sic) has been told.

Not giving a toss is actually more than a strategy to impress women. Its a superb way to survive life.