[MANic]

That is tantamount to divorcing American invention from Europe or denying jewish contributions purely because they weren't in Israel.

Most mualim invention during th golden age occured in a handful of centres. The geographic source of invention being the primary intellectual centres of learning. The first centre of learning being Baghdad (bordering Iran) as well as Cairo, Spain and later Turkey. Movement was relatively free and it is often fairly difficult to accurately classify the precise ethnicity of scholars with most claiming atleast partial descent from hijaz (like the examples I mentioned).

At this point the tenuous assertions made are little more than straw-clutching.

[Ocelot]

(11-26-2018 06:11 AM)MANic Wrote:  

Al-Kindi (thank him for musical notation) etc.

I can't speak for the other points, but whoever Al-Kindi was, he is categorically not responsible for western musical notation. The first proto-notation used in the West originated inside monasteries in the Middle Ages, and its history is fairly well documented. I don't know who convinced you of this arab origin, but muslims have an illustrious history of claiming other cultural inventions as their own.

[MANic]

I forgot to type modern. His revolutionary use alphabetical annotation for an eighth of a beat has pretty substantial ramifications. Also his work in music theory is apparently decently significantly.

Much like western civilization, guilty of preposterous fabrications now debunked (like the aryan invasion theory in re Indus civilization) or false claims over Egypt.

[Aurini]

(11-26-2018 06:37 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

The high achievers in every society generally perform their miracles DESPITE the prevailing orthodoxy.

Claiming that a high achiever was so because religion X paved the way is horse shit. Both islamic AND christian theocracies have had remarkable records of murdering anyone operating outside of the ignorant status quo, and other religions are typically just as guilty.

When everyone in a given area is an adherent of a religion then claiming the success of a rare individual as the result of that religion is just as stupid as claiming that person was successful because their national flag was blue, or the peasants there played soccer instead of hockey.

The argument is about which civilization is conducive to enabling the excellence of such individuals.

Christianity has, since its earliest years, dedicated itself to studying the natural world through art, science, and architecture, as a method for glorifying God. The modern University system is a creation of the Catholic Church, and up until recent times most Popes were PhD level scholars on a variety of topics (the Pope who locked up Galileo was a hardcore mathematician, and part of the reason he was censured was because his theories were provably false).

There were instances of libraries being destroyed (Alexandria... how many books were lost there?), but a sober analysis notes these as exceptions to the rule, as much if not more driven by political forces as by religious.

Islam, on the other hand, has made it a tradition to destroy the past. "The Koran contains everything important, and the rest of it can be swept away." What Islamic scholarship existed was largely the result of Christian and Jewish slaves, and the pilfering of European libraries during the Dark Ages (so titled because Muslim piracy destroyed trade across the Mediterranean). Certainly, there were individuals within Muslim countries who displayed scientific genius - but those that thrived only did so because of a Christian/European backdrop which had yet to be completely destroyed. In today's world, Christianity is almost completely dead in Muslim lands, and we see the result of this with their absence from Nobel Prize lists.

Islam stifles the potential of its geniuses; Christianity nurtures it.

[nomadbrah]

(11-26-2018 09:50 AM)MANic Wrote:  

I forgot to type modern. His revolutionary use alphabetical annotation for an eighth of a beat has pretty substantial ramifications. Also his work in music theory is apparently decently significantly.

Much like western civilization, guilty of preposterous fabrications now debunked (like the aryan invasion theory in re Indus civilization) or false claims over Egypt.

Oh man, I didn't know we had a Hindu nationalist here.

Please tell how the "aryan invasion" theory is debunked!

DNA proved the aryan invasion theory years ago.

[MANic]

I could pick selectivs examples like Tripoli (how many books were lost thanks to crusaders) or Andalusia etc. In re nobel prizes my primary thesis is that intellectual product mirrors global power distribution (stability + wealth leads to education and invention). I fully suspect Asia to drastically overtake western output in the near future given a change in power dynamics. I certainly don't argue arab superiority - hell I'm Indian. I just think the bias on here is glaringly unfortunate.

[MANic]

http://indiafacts.org/aryan-invasion-myt...-indology/

[nomadbrah]

(11-26-2018 10:04 AM)MANic Wrote:  

http://indiafacts.org/aryan-invasion-myt...-indology/

https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/scienc...090301.ece

Quote:

The thorniest, most fought-over question in Indian history is slowly but surely getting answered: did Indo-European language speakers, who called themselves Aryans, stream into India sometime around 2,000 BC – 1,500 BC when the Indus Valley civilisation came to an end, bringing with them Sanskrit and a distinctive set of cultural practices? Genetic research based on an avalanche of new DNA evidence is making scientists around the world converge on an unambiguous answer: yes, they did.

There's nothing to discuss here.

I know this is a hard pill to swallow for indian nationalists.

[MANic]

Nope, not really true buddy, but I'll excuse you. Your paranoia that a white Europe that is 5% muslim and an America that is close to 80% white is in danger means you need ir more than me.

[Trumpian]

(11-26-2018 09:59 AM)MANic Wrote:  

I could pick selectivs examples like Tripoli (how many books were lost thanks to crusaders) or Andalusia etc. In re nobel prizes my primary thesis is that intellectual product mirrors global power distribution (stability + wealth leads to education and invention). I fully suspect Asia to drastically overtake western output in the near future given a change in power dynamics. I certainly don't argue arab superiority - hell I'm Indian. I just think the bias on here is glaringly unfortunate.

This all makes sense now.

Quote:

Nope, not really true buddy, but I'll excuse you. Your paranoia that a white Europe that is 5% muslim and an America that is close to 80% white is in danger means you need ir more than me.

I don't know any credible historian that questions the Indo-European(Aryan) invasion hypothesis. The native people of India are swarthy Dravidians. You all probably originally looked more like the North Sentinelese before my indo european kinsmen raped and pillaged the subcontinent.

[Leonard D Neubache]

I concede that Christianity nurtures better genetic lines and in doing so nurtures better outcomes, but I don't believe the theology itself is forward thinking.

Islam with its Koran-approved inbreeding, fasting during pregnancy, warlord-rewarding polygamy and vitamin-D deficient mothers has obviously done a fantastic job of devolving their bloodlines into varied levels of genetic trash depending on to what level their nations are theocratic.

Christianity on the other hand provided reproductive rewards to a stable middle class from which strong societal and technological advances could be made. Unfortunately the inbuilt cuckery mechanisms have also doomed it to some degree.

[HornyRamone]

(11-26-2018 09:39 AM)Ocelot Wrote:  

(11-26-2018 06:11 AM)MANic Wrote:  

Al-Kindi (thank him for musical notation) etc.

I can't speak for the other points, but whoever Al-Kindi was, he is categorically not responsible for western musical notation. The first proto-notation used in the West originated inside monasteries in the Middle Ages, and its history is fairly well documented. I don't know who convinced you of this arab origin, but muslims have an illustrious history of claiming other cultural inventions as their own.

Algebra being another discovery Arabs claim responsibility for that's actual discovery Arabs had little to nothing to do with.

[Ocelot]

(11-26-2018 09:50 AM)MANic Wrote:  

I forgot to type modern. His revolutionary use alphabetical annotation for an eighth of a beat has pretty substantial ramifications. Also his work in music theory is apparently decently significantly.

I don't want to derail the thread any further than it already is, but please just stay in your damn lane because you don't know what you're talking about here. Western music, modern or otherwise, owes nothing to whoever this Al-Kindi was. I'm sure he was a fascinating fellow, but Western music simply would not have noticed his disappearance.

On the other hand...

WE WUZ MUSIC THEORISTS 'N' SHEIIT (even though musical instruments are haram)

Fuck it, let them have this one—you know I think I heard a 13th century Imam came up with equal temperament and invented the piano—how will white supremacists ever recover?

[Hypno]

[Turnus]

Friends and family think he may still be alive.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7835035/jo...-be-alive/

[Matsufubu]

(11-28-2018 06:31 AM)Hypno Wrote:  

Am I the only one impressed by that dude's forearms?