[quaker13]

You guys do realize the broad is 21? What fuckin 21 year old has $400 laying around to fly to see a stranger? I don’t care if the OP 10 or 5 with tons of game, it’s simply unrealistic to expect that out of 21 year old.

OP should be getting clear yet subtle signs of sexual interest for starters and he should reduce the trip to 2 nights. 4 fuckin days is brutal if the chick has a shit personality even with the addition of sex 4 days is still too much. Do not fly her in unless you are fairly certain you can smash. Even if you get hoodwinked at least you know you did your part. Also, if she’s an asshole fly her back early regardless of cost.

[MrRobot]

I agree with few others if you got the $ go for it

[Saweeep]

"I won't buy girls drinks"

"I don't see the point in going to expensive bars and restaurants."

"Pricey clothes are a waste of money."

"Who needs a luxury car?"

"Studio apartments are just fine."

"Business and First class flights are just not worth it."

"Why take a taxi if you can walk? Exercise is important to me."

"I'd never fly some hot young pussy to fuck me for a weekend cause that makes her a whore."


Experience has taught me that most of these things are said by those that can't afford them.

Denigrate what you can't have...like chicks who shame attractive women for the slightest thing.

[jcardial]

(11-22-2018 08:51 AM)Saweeep Wrote:  

"I won't buy girls drinks"

"I don't see the point in going to expensive bars and restaurants."

"Pricey clothes are a waste of money."

"Who needs a luxury car?"

"Studio apartments are just fine."

"Business and First class flights are just not worth it."

"Why take a taxi if you can walk? Exercise is important to me."

"I'd never fly some hot young pussy to fuck me for a weekend cause that makes her a whore."


Experience has taught me that most of these things are said by those that can't afford them.

Denigrate what you can't have...like chicks who shame attractive women for the slightest thing.

This is a pretty straightforward problem to approximate and most guys wouldn't feel taken advantage of when these attempts fail if they had been spending within their means. Let's say the total cost is $800. If the girl is hot and he is 80-100% sure it will be a great success, around a grand isn't too bad for a guy who makes good money. If there's a 25%-50% chance, which sounds more reasonable from the limited info provided, the implied cost per successful weekend is $1600-$3200.

A few grand per notch paid towards a dubious girl isn't very palatable for the overwhelming majority of income levels given it could basically pay a vacation of your own or go towards wooing many more local women. The reason the OP was humming and hawing is because he wasn't confident this was a lock and it correctly felt less like expected value and more like expected overspending.

Cliff notes: divide cost by the decimal probability of getting laid to determine whether the cost per success is roughly within your budget (e.g. for 25%, $800/.25 = $3200 i.e. bleeding money).

[ATW in 80 Days]

(11-22-2018 10:15 PM)jcardial Wrote:  

(11-22-2018 08:51 AM)Saweeep Wrote:  

"I won't buy girls drinks"

"I don't see the point in going to expensive bars and restaurants."

"Pricey clothes are a waste of money."

"Who needs a luxury car?"

"Studio apartments are just fine."

"Business and First class flights are just not worth it."

"Why take a taxi if you can walk? Exercise is important to me."

"I'd never fly some hot young pussy to fuck me for a weekend cause that makes her a whore."


Experience has taught me that most of these things are said by those that can't afford them.

Denigrate what you can't have...like chicks who shame attractive women for the slightest thing.

This is a pretty straightforward problem to approximate and most guys wouldn't feel taken advantage of when these attempts fail if they had been spending within their means. Let's say the total cost is $800. If the girl is hot and he is 80-100% sure it will be a great success, around a grand isn't too bad for a guy who makes good money. If there's a 25%-50% chance, which sounds more reasonable from the limited info provided, the implied cost per successful weekend is $1600-$3200.

A few grand per notch paid towards a dubious girl isn't very palatable for the overwhelming majority of income levels given it could basically pay a vacation of your own or go towards wooing many more local women. The reason the OP was humming and hawing is because he wasn't confident this was a lock and it correctly felt less like expected value and more like expected overspending.

Cliff notes: divide cost by the decimal probability of getting laid to determine whether the cost per success is roughly within your budget (e.g. for 25%, $800/.25 = $3200 i.e. bleeding money).

I don't like the idea of calculating your expected cost per notch. It's not possible to accurately determine your odds of banging the girl, and then you'd have to multiply it by your expected costs for the weekend (a tough number to estimate). In addition to being impractical, you're damaging your own chances by entering a weekend with the belief that you have a 25% chance of banging the girl. Go into it with full confidence or don't do it at all.

I think it's simple. If you have the disposable income and the girl has shown real interest, then go for it. The $1000 for the flight and dinners/drinks isn't going to make or break many guys.

If the guy in question is in fact a chump, he's got bigger problems than analyzing his expected cost per notch.

[Robert High Hawk]

I had an old fling come to meet up with me once in Europe. I didn't pay for her to travel over (from the US so it was a big trip) but I did make arrange for some joint trips within Europe, expecting her to pay her share. Since we were basically not together at that point, and she gave absolutely no hint at trying to make it romantic/hookup, I kind of just settled on the fact that she was just wanting to take a trip in Europe with a "free" host.

I took the approach that I had very little to lose. If she came over and didn't want to hook up, whatever, I was certainly gonna enjoy myself regardless since it was a great travel plan I had made. If she got too crazy then I could kick her out.

The trip ended up being pretty good, because she was immediately out of her element in this foreign country, therefore absolutely needed me.

[Shemp]

>>It's not possible to accurately determine your odds of banging the girl, and then you'd have to multiply it by your expected costs for the weekend (a tough number to estimate).

It's also not possible to accurately (meaning within a few percentage points of the true value) to determine the odds of business success or expected profits, but bankers, venture capitalists, other investors still try the best they can. What's the alternative? Flip a coin? $1000/year won't break most guys but $1000/week over many years = thrown away opportunity for financial independence.

In practice, I don't consciously use numbers like JCardial suggests. Rather I go on gut feel. Suppose I repeated the deal over and over? What's my gut feeling as to likely succeses versus failures, likely benefits versus costs? If I get a bad gut feeling, forget. But behind my gut feeling is a subconscious calculation like JCardial is making. Similarly, some investors consciously use numbers, others go on gut feel and let the subconscious do something equivalent to number crunching.

[TravelingBodybuilder]

Iv done it, but only to girls that i have smashed already. Would never buy a plane ticket to a girl i never even met before. Thats to desperate ...

[NoMoreTO]

(11-23-2018 12:44 AM)TravelingBodybuilder Wrote:  

Iv done it, but only to girls that i have smashed already. Would never buy a plane ticket to a girl i never even met before. Thats to desperate ...

Good policy.

They might be terrible in bed or shut you down. Alternatively, they may have a photoshopped photo or even an old phone if you're flying a internet girl (which is retarded)

[ATW in 80 Days]

(11-22-2018 11:16 PM)Shemp Wrote:  

>>It's not possible to accurately determine your odds of banging the girl, and then you'd have to multiply it by your expected costs for the weekend (a tough number to estimate).

It's also not possible to accurately (meaning within a few percentage points of the true value) to determine the odds of business success or expected profits, but bankers, venture capitalists, other investors still try the best they can. What's the alternative? Flip a coin? $1000/year won't break most guys but $1000/week over many years = thrown away opportunity for financial independence.

In practice, I don't consciously use numbers like JCardial suggests. Rather I go on gut feel. Suppose I repeated the deal over and over? What's my gut feeling as to likely succeses versus failures, likely benefits versus costs? If I get a bad gut feeling, forget. But behind my gut feeling is a subconscious calculation like JCardial is making. Similarly, some investors consciously use numbers, others go on gut feel and let the subconscious do something equivalent to number crunching.

I'm actually an analytical person in general, but for something like this, it would take the fun out of it to think in those terms. And I like to go into a date or a weekend with full confidence, which can be compromised if you go into the weeds with analysis.

Like I said in my post, make sure the girl has real interest. This isn't something to do with a girl that's on the fence.

If a guy flies a girl that hasn't shown any real interest, she's more likely to see him as a chump. As someone who jumped the gun. If her interest level in high, she will respect him and see the visit as a logical step in the fling/relationship.

Better for anyone with an issue in this area to learn how to discern a girl's interest level than to make calculations.

[Robert High Hawk]

A slight problem with people's calculations is that they are calculating as cost per notch VS cost per lay. Presumably things will go down many times over the course of a long weekend. That's should be part of the calculus.

As for SAWEEP's comment. I'd personally love to be in a financial position to be able to do/buy all that stuff. I almost feel though that at this point I'm hardwired not to cringe when I look at the opportunity cost of some of that stuff. I'll fully admit that for many of the things on the list (certainly not all though), i rationalize a lot why I supposedly don't want it anyway.

Agree with the comment on most 21 year olds being flat broke. A symbolic contribution should be required on her part. Maybe bring a gift or something.

[NextStop100]

If you do it, make her pay for the the ticket and say you’ll pay her back in person.

It’s what millionaire rappers do:

http://www.q100atlanta.com/2018/06/06/1559274/

[droughtmeat]

As for saweep's post, if you can afford all of those things, why not just go ahead? However, out of the ones I've tried, driving expensive cars (not my cars), buying more expensive clothing, buying girls drinks etc. they just ended up feeling kind of disappointing. I remember a friend going abroad and giving me his car for a month. Thus, I decided to test that thing on the German autobahn and reached 250 km/h peak speed. It was a disappointing experience and contributed to me simply not liking cars. However, being able to take an uber or taxi at will is great and going to nice restaurants is awesome too, imo.

I'm still opposed to flying girls to my city though. It simply feels bad for me personally. It's as though I didn't have enough game to get a girl in my city. Or, alternatively, I could use that cash to fly to another city / country and spend the weekend trying to get laid there. I'd only do it, if I had very little time on my hands and couldn't afford to leave the city.

But I disagree with those who think this is "slutty" behavior by the girls. Most girls I know do appreciate this on some level and know it's a free weekend of fun and sex.

[Shemp]

>>If you do it, make her pay for the the ticket and say you’ll pay her back in person. It’s what millionaire rappers do:

Exactly. And specify that you'll pay her back AFTER seeing that "things go well between us" or some such language. Meaning after you fuck her the first time. I said earlier wait until end of trip but in retrospect that is too cheap-sounding. Hand her the check/cash or electronic transfer (zelle, paypal, etc) right there in bed after first sex saying "I do keep my promises" or something of the sort. It's not P4P because she's not earning anything, just being repaid.

>>Agree with the comment on most 21 year olds being flat broke.

They may not have cash on hand but they usually have credit cards. Make her show some trust in you by paying in advance herself then getting repaid by you.

[jcardial]

(11-23-2018 08:04 AM)ATW in 80 Days Wrote:  

(11-22-2018 11:16 PM)Shemp Wrote:  

>>It's not possible to accurately determine your odds of banging the girl, and then you'd have to multiply it by your expected costs for the weekend (a tough number to estimate).

It's also not possible to accurately (meaning within a few percentage points of the true value) to determine the odds of business success or expected profits, but bankers, venture capitalists, other investors still try the best they can. What's the alternative? Flip a coin? $1000/year won't break most guys but $1000/week over many years = thrown away opportunity for financial independence.

In practice, I don't consciously use numbers like JCardial suggests. Rather I go on gut feel. Suppose I repeated the deal over and over? What's my gut feeling as to likely succeses versus failures, likely benefits versus costs? If I get a bad gut feeling, forget. But behind my gut feeling is a subconscious calculation like JCardial is making. Similarly, some investors consciously use numbers, others go on gut feel and let the subconscious do something equivalent to number crunching.

I'm actually an analytical person in general, but for something like this, it would take the fun out of it to think in those terms. And I like to go into a date or a weekend with full confidence, which can be compromised if you go into the weeds with analysis.

Like I said in my post, make sure the girl has real interest. This isn't something to do with a girl that's on the fence.

If a guy flies a girl that hasn't shown any real interest, she's more likely to see him as a chump. As someone who jumped the gun. If her interest level in high, she will respect him and see the visit as a logical step in the fling/relationship.

Better for anyone with an issue in this area to learn how to discern a girl's interest level than to make calculations.

If in tennis someone is about to do a second serve you know there's give or take a 50% chance of you winning the point. I don't see why that information has to hurt your confidence or keep you from performing to the maximum of your ability. You can be realistic about your chances with women without detriment. If you are fully aware of potential points of failure you can be better prepared and at the very least manage your expectations and finances if there are big costs involved.

The girl in OP's case has very likely had some experience with gold digger game. If she is demanding all expenses paid from a near stranger she is probably very familiar with ways to string guys along and milk them for cash. She might have even disingenuously buttered him up the night they met if she found out he was living in LA and that was somewhere she wanted to visit.

It's hard to say how much of an ice queen princess this girl is from the limited info given, but guys should be wary of these types because they sometimes fleece guys for sport. If she wants you to throw down cash to impress her all weekend she may realize putting out on the first or second night isn't in her best interest. Day three or four rolls around around and the tacos made her feel sick or she's "on her period," or she decided to meet up with some girlfriends/a richer guy who finally responded to her DM.

With gold diggers you're on average dealing with a totally different beast than the girl you slept with a few times who you know genuinely likes you and will likely be happy with whatever you offer. The princess on the other hand might not like the smell of your apartment and demand an upgrade to a luxury hotel. She knows once you pay her flight she has you pot committed and she may or may not play with her leverage. Of course sometimes the weekend will go fine. The point is to be realistic about how these types of women can behave and factor that into your bottom line rather than just wishfully assuming paying up will work out well close to 100%.

[ATW in 80 Days]

^^^
I agree with a lot of what you're saying. My take hasn't been completely tailored to what the OP has indicated his situation to be, so that could be leading to part of the disconnect.

I wouldn't go near a gold digger in any situation. It's not worth the headache, and I never feel good about sleeping with girls who mainly like me for my money (I'm not rich, but I am in comparison to some of the girls I hook up with).

I would advise to go through with flying a girl if 1) the guy has the disposable income, 2) the girl has a high level of interest without factoring in the financial component and 3) the girl is broke due to her status as a student (and not broke due to an underlying issue).

[TravelingBodybuilder]

(11-23-2018 12:56 AM)NoMoreTO Wrote:  

(11-23-2018 12:44 AM)TravelingBodybuilder Wrote:  

Iv done it, but only to girls that i have smashed already. Would never buy a plane ticket to a girl i never even met before. Thats to desperate ...

Good policy.

They might be terrible in bed or shut you down. Alternatively, they may have a photoshopped photo or even an old phone if you're flying a internet girl (which is retarded)

yea this too. I flew a colombia girl out to peru for me (paid flights and her resturant meals and machu picchu ticket and excursions) etc. etc.) but she sucked my dick almost every morning and she did all the translating for me(my spanish is very basic) and cummed inside her every night(she was on birth control). And didnt effect my wallet one bit. So to me it was worth it. Why travel alone and be lonely and have nobody to take your pictures (randoms suck when you ask them to take pictures for you ). etc. So to me it was worth it and It didnt effect my wallet. But flying a girl i never met before, its just about the principle lol. Imagine if she didnt put out too. Its to desperate... And as you said she could have photoshopped per photos or used old photos... Iv been catfished before where the girl looked like a solid 8 and turned out to be a solid 5. I was amazing at how good her photoshop skills were. Unless she used pictures of her from like 3 years ago and aged and gained weight. i just didnt understand . its not about the money as i said just the principle... $400 wouldnt effect my wallet but its the principle.

[NextStop100]

What would you do if:

1.) You tell girl to come to your city
2.) She pays for her ticket, you say you will pay her back
3.) You meet. You try to have sex, she says no (for whatever reason).

Would you still pay her back? Would you answer differently if she was staying with you

I'd still do it and just accept the loss.

[TravelingBodybuilder]

(11-23-2018 02:35 PM)NextStop100 Wrote:  

What would you do if:

1.) You tell girl to come to your city
2.) She pays for her ticket, you say you will pay her back
3.) You meet. You try to have sex, she says no (for whatever reason).

Would you still pay her back? Would you answer differently if she was staying with you

I'd still do it and just accept the loss.

id accept the loss as well , wouldnt be an asshole and not pay for her ride back lol... and would take it as a lesson learned to not spend money like that on girls that you havent even slept with yet.Plus Girls are crazy, if you screw her over like that she may lie and say you robbed all her money or raped or something to the police. Id love to leave her ass but girls are crazy and wouldnt want to risk anything happening to me if she gets pay back.

[Shemp]

You should be clear about qualifying that you'll repay only "if things work out". This will cause her to think carefully about whether she will have sex or not before she buys the ticket. If she buys it, comes to your apartment, changes her mind and refuses sex, then salvage what you can. Offer to pay half the ticket, pay it entirely, pay extra to get her out of your apartment, whatever. Then read the travel subforum for info about countries where false accusations aren't a big issue. Or at least screen better next time.

[quaker13]

(11-23-2018 03:59 PM)Shemp Wrote:  

You should be clear about qualifying that you'll repay only "if things work out". This will cause her to think carefully about whether she will have sex or not before she buys the ticket. If she buys it, comes to your apartment, changes her mind and refuses sex, then salvage what you can. Offer to pay half the ticket, pay it entirely, pay extra to get her out of your apartment, whatever. Then read the travel subforum for info about countries where false accusations aren't a big issue. Or at least screen better next time.

imo that's probably the wrong mindset. i think approaching it as a loss is no big deal is better than being a meiser every step of the way.

[Shemp]

>>imo that's probably the wrong mindset. i think approaching it as a loss is no big deal is better than being a meiser every step of the way.

Have you actually experienced buying a $400 or whatever ticket and then the girl flakes and doesnt show (most likely thing to go wrong). A man can only be shitted on so many times before he breaks down and becomes bitter, ruining his chances with future women. Even buying a girl a drink and then she walks off laughing: if that happens often enough, eventually you'll crack. So you need to prepare in advance so you can't easily be shitted on. Don't put pussy on a pedestal. Don't fall prey to oneitis. Plenty more fish in the ocean, especially to a man who still has some money left.

If you're really Mr Nonchalant about money, who just laughs off the loss of $400, why can't you be Mr Nonchalant about pussy? Set some reasonable boundaries and if the girl can't live within those boundaries, let her go.

Further reading: thread-71395.html

[One More]

(07-17-2018 10:42 PM)Axel99 Wrote:  

I have a bit of a dilema, i met this hot 21yr old while i was traveling in a different city and weve been chatting about her coming to visit me in L.A...thing is i would have to pay for her round-trip plane ticket($400), meals, drinks, entertainment, etc. for a 4 day weekend. Dont get me wrong, I make good money and can easily afford it but Im not sure if she's really that into me or is just agreeing to an all expense paid vacation to the city of angels. She texts me alot about wanting to visit here and go to the beaches and attractions LA has to offer. Im still undecided and havent committed to anything but wanted to know if you guys have ever done this and was it worth it.

If you have a suspicion or not sure that she's using you, you can screen her for gold-digger vibes. Also, think back about who made the suggestions to do all these things that cost money. If they were all her ideas, and she damn well knows she can't afford paying for any of it, then there's a strong chance that she's a gold digger.

But then there's another side of the coin you have to consider. If she's 21 years old, chances are she's not making money yet -- or worse, she's in college and broke AF. Weigh these considerations out. It's your job to set boundaries. And you can salvage this chick by doing so. Also, get her to invest. If she isn't down to invest any amount of money for her ticket, then either next her or keep in touch once in awhile (if you plan to visit that city again soon for legit reasons other than to see her).

Set your boundaries from early on and don't let girls walk over you like that. It's up to you to lead her into interactions, always have an idea where you want to guide the conversation, always have a purpose. Don't fall into her frame.

[El_Cartiero]

I’d never fly a broad out

I was in Amsterdam/Antwerp at the end of August. Wasn’t gaming, but fancies a cruise with a pal of mine.

We drove from a London to ‘dam then to Antwerp and back home. Long and short of it, we get talking to a couple of chicks in Antwerp (shit city btw) I end up exchanging numbers with the one I didn’t initially fancy. We get talking and she told me she’s thinking of coming to London

Granted ‘dam to London probably cost her <€100 but the point in all of this was that she used it as a opportunity to see me (probably had an intention of coming here anywa, I dunno). Of the 3.5 days she spent here, we linked up 2 and I smashed.

I must add that she’s one of those spontaneous chicks who travel with a +1, or on her lonesome