[Wutang]

Steven Crowder has been doing a series of video where he sets up a table at a university campus with a sign indicating a view of his such as his belief in the 2nd amendment or his suspicion on the idea of male privilege. He did a recent one where he showed up with a sign reading "Socialism is evil" and invited people to approach his table and challenge it.

I had been reading that there was one kid that apparently wrecked him in a debate. I was expecting the guy to be some super academically wonked out university socialist who was knee deep in the study of Marx but it turned out he was actually more of a Trump/Bannon type guy. He even referred to himself as an "economic nationalist" at one point.

Debate starts at 7:11.

A few other interesting points:

- When Crowder refers/asks him if he's a liberal, he said he doesn't necessarily identity as one

- The guy indicates at point that he is against mass third-world immigration and says that he supports raising the minimum wage because he thinks that it would create a disincentive for companies to hire illegal labor

- Guy refers to Paul Ryan in a seemingly negative way at one point

- The guy also supports universal health care and other safety net type policies. This by itself would make me think he's some sort of Bernie supporter but when it's combined with the other points I've noted above, it makes him seem similar to the Stephen Bannon populist-right type as opposed to someone like Crowder or Ben Shapiro who is more of a mainstream conventional right wing type.

Anyways, posted this up because I thought it was interesting to see a view like this get expressed on a big platform (Crowder has huge reach) as opposed to being confined to a post on a subreddit or chan board somewhere. Makes me wonder how many other people like this are out there that will move onto into the mainstream view in the last decade.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Will listen to it, but my own personal ideal economic model is not libertarian. The idea that the upper elite is going to act humanitarian in a totally free environment is retarded. That economic freedom has been had in the 18th and 19th century with terrible results.

Balance is the goal and a tiny, but not corrupt government with extremely low flat income tax, high tariffs on all products that can be produced within and very high minimum wages. Also the most important part would be a usury-free monetary system and close to zero interest on one self-used real estate object. Immigration should of course be zero unless unemployment is at zero (real zero - not the fake numbers they give us). Also immigration should be fitting.

Everyone would be Swiss/Norway level rich if you implemented that, though the globalists would make much less money, so I guess that won't be happening. And funny enough - there would likely also be more billionaires.

[glugger]

The whole structure of these debates is:

• Say something 'outrageous' (to campus students).
• Get insulted and have ad hominems thrown at you.
• Point out the insults and act offended so they show empathy.
• Propose your argument when they will they actually consider your position.
• And possibly provoke thought, and change minds.
  

But this guy is already considering Steven's view from a fair perspective.

Usually in these debates, Crowder is used to putting up with poorly formed arguments, emotional anecdotes, and straight up personal attacks. That's why he spends so much time just working out and nitpicking definitions and occasionally playing victim in order for any form of proper debate to happen. That's why he acts offended at 'autistic' and 'shill' and tries to win crowd points off them, even though they weren't personal attacks in this instance.

I'm sure they could have had a better debate if Steven realised he didn't have to be so defensive.

[churros]

I'm glad you posted this because some on the forum have been repeatedly been confusing socialism and liberalism.

[Thrill Jackson]

Crowder lost, cut him off repeatedly for "talking in paragraphs" (aka I can't keep up so please dumb it down for me). It was a good debate that I wanted to see playout till the end. Also, using a leftist tactic by "being offended" over the word shill and autistic is such a bitch move and derailed the conversation.

I am so sick of the lightweight "conservatives" (steven Crowder, Tomi Lahren, Megan Kelly, etc.) That cant debate and/or dont support a true right winger with real patriotic values runs for office/is in office.

[nationalcapitalism]

Crowder tried to lecture him and seemed not interested in an actual debate, which is understandable considering he probably was not expecting an economic nationalist but some typical leftist who wouldn't make any coherent arguments.

I used to be pretty big shill for free market capitalism until recently, but over the past year or so I have gone away from that after seeing more the reality of unrestricted capitalism and the damage it causes to society. I would not describe myself as a socialist but third positionist, I regard a more Fascist economic model as better than either capitalism or socialism strictly. When I first saw that video I found myself agreeing much more with this guy than Crowder.

[Wutang]

I've watched a few other of Crowder's debate and I can't say I'm impressed by him generally. He usually looks better in comparison to who he's debating since he isn't throwing a fit or getting overly emotionally charged like his undergrad opponents usually do. He's also good at controlling the frame since he's the one hosting the event and the other person is coming onto his turf and also because he's a professional comedian/Youtube show host which means he has vastly more experience with how to handle people in a debate/discussion, not necessarily on the strength of his arguments but mostly because he knows how to AMOG his opponent via appearing more dominant whether it be by speaking style or body language or what else.

Well he met one guy who refuses to be intimated abyhim and kept his calm and collected through out the discussion and this is what resulted. The performance of this college kid is worth studying for the next you get into some sort of verbal duel. He didn't overreact when Crowder would try to do pull tricks like getting super into his face or when he tried to AMOG by saying stuff like "you can look at me in the eye". Crowder kept bringing up the "autistic" thing, likely trying to bait the kid into a side argument about whether it's appropriate to use the term and away from the main argument but the kid kept calm and didn't allow Crowder to drag the argument from territory that he was getting hammered on. What makes this even more impressive is that the kid was starting from an handicapped position from the beginning: he's a small, shrimpy looking guy that has a pretty weak sounding voice going into hostile territory but he held his own.

Lessons learned here: keep your energy level lower than your opponent's, even when you are tempted to go to (or more appropriately, sink to) his level and also never allow your opponent to retreat off the battlefield when he is losing at that area into another field where he has a chance to score some points back, even if it's cheap rhetorical ones.

[la bodhisattva]

Crowder has the unique ability to align with most of my beliefs while also making me hate him to an extent. His podcasts are almost impossible to listen to. From the ridiculous cackling of his "co-hosts" to his jokes (sorry Steven, you're humorous, but suck at one-liner punchlines, if that makes sense) to the butting in with obnoxious "jokes" that interrupt otherwise incredible guests like Peterson and Sowell.

But oddly, the thing I hate most of all is his literal delivery. The cadence and almost speed talking he does is like nails on a chalkboard to me. It's like he thinks his ideas are so profound that the millisecond taking a breath would take is too long to withhold his transformative thoughts. An easy example of this to hear is simply his intro. That hypertalk of "JoinedbynotgayjaredI'vefulfilledmylegalobligation" just pisses me off to no end. It's like he's trying to get a sentence out before he burps half the time.

I might agree with 90% of what Crowder says vs 70% of Joe Rogan but would choose Rogan to hang out with 100% of the time. Crowder just has an offputting personality.

[The Catalyst]

(05-04-2018 03:31 PM)Wutang Wrote:  

- The guy indicates at point that he is against mass third-world immigration and says that he supports raising the minimum wage because he thinks that it would create a disincentive for companies to hire illegal labor

[komatiite]

Interview by Nick Fuentes with this kid. Starts around the two min mark

[PrtSc]

I've seen some of Crowder's videos out there and thought they were alright. That said, I don't like when he does the "change my mind" ones because it's clear he goes into it with no intention of ever changing his own mind. It's rather disingenuous.

[DJ-Matt]

[la bodhisattva]

(05-05-2018 06:44 PM)Thrill Jackson Wrote:  

Crowder lost, cut him off repeatedly for "talking in paragraphs" (aka I can't keep up so please dumb it down for me). It was a good debate that I wanted to see playout till the end. Also, using a leftist tactic by "being offended" over the word shill and autistic is such a bitch move and derailed the conversation.

I am so sick of the lightweight "conservatives" (steven Crowder, Tomi Lahren, Megan Kelly, etc.) That cant debate and/or dont support a true right winger with real patriotic values runs for office/is in office.

Crowder also virtue signals his work with special needs kids while actually calling them retarded. The guy is right on feminism and all the sjw bullshit but beyond that, but he's a fucking punk when it comes to more libertarian causes.

[RatInTheWoods]

This is pretty much my position, I am a devout centrist.

There are evils at both end of the political spectrum, as evidenced by historic atrocities committed by both wings.

The best way is the middle ground, picking the best and most successful strategies from both that work.

like the lad, I believe in some socialist policies (health, education and safety nets)

[deerhunter]

Crowder comes across as a sad little idiot compared to that kid. He was on his heels the whole time.

[Wutang]

(05-05-2018 10:15 PM)komatiite Wrote:  

Interview by Nick Fuentes with this kid. Starts around the two min mark

Just watched the interview and the kid identified as a social conservative and thinks the weakening of religious and traditional values has been a negative on society. The host points out how unusual this is among the younger generation and that even younger kids who tend to be more conservative on a lot of issues will still say they are socially liberal. He brought up the 1950s and made the point the reason you could have the social environment then that is now viewed with with nostalgia by social conservatives is because of the high marginal tax rate that allowed for the ideal of the nuclear family with the husband working while his wife stayed at home and raised the kids. A theme I've seen from the kid both from this interview and the talk with Crowder is how a lot of conservative values would actually be better served with a more progressive economic system.

[Dusty]

Crowder set up one of his “change my mind” tables at TCU. TCU is now offering counseling.

[url=https://twitter.com/tcu/status/1046899292013768704?s=21][/url]

[Captainstabbin]

Crowder was a never Trumper. His sidekick, notgayjared, called Trump an idiot on several occasions.

[AneroidOcean]

(10-04-2018 04:43 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

Crowder was a never Trumper. His sidekick, notgayjared, called Trump an idiot on several occasions.

He doesn't pretend to support Trump. He's more of a classic liberal. He has reasoned dialogues that point out the complete hypocrisy of most leftists, especially on college campus, so he actually does conservatives and society as a whole a great service.

[DJ-Matt]

Holy shit TCU is in Texas of all places, we really are fucked.

[911]

Crowder is not very smart, he's a bit of an alt-media whore. He's got a good media presence and a schtick tailored for normies that lean right. He'll address the low-hanging fruit but will steer clear of the important stuff.

[debeguiled]

All the criticism may be true, but this video was a stellar troll. Some chick gets triggered when he doesn't agree with her, and calls the campus police over to the table to get rid of him, and the police ask her why she doesn't leave the table if she feels so threatened.