[BlackHussar]

I would like to discuss the issue of lesser men sabotaging, deriding or outright cockblocking us.

There is already a thread about dealing with CB, but I'd like to talk about this topic generally in life, not only in game. So, when a beta ridicules you or offends you in front of other people in order to make himself look important and strong - at work, at a uni reunion, at a bar...

The problems with dealing with this shit are as follows:

1) These faggots often use female tactics like passive-aggressiveness, being witty, mocking etc. When you respond manly, they'll throw some shit about "fragile masculinity", not being able to take a "joke" etc. If you return it in kind, you stoop down to their faggy level.

2) You can't really kick the shit out of them, at least not immediately (police/security/fired from job/you'll lose reputation and come off as a savage brute)

3) If a beta tries to present himself as smarter than you and yourself as a dumb, savage Chad - if you laugh and ignore it, people will really think you're dumb as fuck. Doesn't matter that much if gaming, but it hurts prospects with coworkers, squad, general reputation. You can't allow a little cunt to talk shit about you in front of yourself.
If, however, you enter an intellectual discussion with him, you will lose your frame because you're trying too hard to prove you're not stupid.

4) Whenever you win, either by intimidating him with an indirect threat of violence, outwitting him, counterattacking ("Oh, but Player here has a lot of success with the ladies, girls. Say, Player, how many women have you been with? - 17, today. But I'm having a date with your mother later, so make that 18."), they will ALWAYS back down but with some further pussy shit like "chill, duuuude, you're really nervous", aforementioned "fragile masculinity" etc.

5) They often blatantly use strawman arguments.

This occurs especially if you're with the beta provocator and several more people who don't know him from before. You know that he's a cunt, but to these people, he's the alpha, because he's mocking you all the time. Whatever you say, he'll just counter with a strawman, which will immensely frustrate you, but to those other people, it will be all the same and they will view you as his equal.

If you start counterattacking with "Yeah, the great womaniser speaking. How long haven't you been laid? Since summer 2017, is it?" (TRUTH) -> they'll respond with "oh, shorter than you, you haven't fucked anything since How I Met Your Mother stopped airing" (LIE)
- if you counter this blatant lie and go back to basics, like "no, you imbecile, you know well that I've fucked 7 women in 2018 alone, so you can't talk such bullshit", you're trying too hard, plus you can't really say such things in some environments.
If you ignore it and laugh it off, the rest of the group is going to view both of you as pathetic.


Some possible environments where beta AMOG-ing occurs:
- workplace/after work drinks with mixed sex group of coworkers
- reunion house party with 20-30 people from highschool/uni
- at a club or a bar, with a larger group of people (6-10)


So what are our options when dealing with those cunts? Let's assume we can't kick their asses, slap them etc. It's not appropriate most of the time.

- verbally indirect, but body-language-wise very direct threat of kicking his ass (you sip your drink, stand up straight, look him in the eye with a thousand yard stare, "careful what you're saying there, buddy. Some people might take offense." Stare him down.) - he could fold, but if you're not physically intimidating enough, he might not. He might even furtherly mock you and present you as violent, savage etc.

- engaging in continuously exchanging "witty" potshots with him
(Womanly, gay, puts you down to his level, diverts your time and attention from socializing with other, normal people in the group and possibly gaming chicks in the group)

- a downright, honest, brutal verbal assault.
One RVFer solved the problem of a gay cockblocker by saying something along the lines of: "Ooh, boy was abused during childhood and now he takes cocks up his ass. What, are you gonna cry now, you pussy?" (IIRC, he didn't get the bang, but it was still worth it as the faggot actually broke down crying)
So, the idea is to strike at the very root of the problem. Break him down, leave him crying, demolish him in front of everyone. Depending on the type of sabotage, the environment (squad, venue), and your standing in the group, you can vary between light sarcasm, outright name-calling, e.g. "What's your problem? Really sick for attention, are we?/ You're so pathetic that you must shit over other people in order to aggrandize yourself?/ Mind your own fucking business./ Jesus, you prattle like a woman. Calm the fuck down Especially in male-dominated group).", or even directly telling him to shut the fuck up.

Neither of these options is perfect. I want to hear what are your solutions to these problems!

[Mizo1234]

I will speak about dealing this kind of behavior only at workplace since I had recent encountered. I handled it very well.
He is my coworker .He has more seniority than me, but I am much better. He is muscular, but I am way stylish more than him.

1-Try to keep the interaction with him to bare minimum.
2- Let jokes slide for one or two times. If he keeps doing it, reply to him in assistive way that you don't like this attitude .
Example, I was wearing nice loafer to work one day. This coworker commented saying " are we going to a boat or something ?" I didn't reply. Another day, he made the same comment . I replied saying " Why you care so much about what I wear and what I don't wear . Since you don't know anything about fashion, I will teach you this loafers, not boat shoes." He shut up and never ever commented on this again.
YEs, I might seem to be over react in this scenario , but it is better to be perceived as over reacting than letting him mocking you. I overreacted in front of 2 other people. If I let him get away with it, he would mock me in front of 2 other ppl, and then 10 more ppl,...ect.

[Mizo1234]

Read this book :Communication skills by Ian Tuhovsky

[Investment Bro]

Brother, I respect the desire to spread information but if you're coming into contact with these types enough to need advice on how to deal with them you need to make some life changes. The whole alpha/beta schism you're describing misses the point.

Dominant men are proactive, not reactive. Your stature and your countenance should be doing most of the talking for you. The men that command the room do so without needing to say a word. The most you should ever need to do is dismissively laugh at someone, smile, and turn your back to them. If they keep talking, you don't need to say anything. Contrary to popular belief, laughing at the rare asshole who proceeds will not only get under their skin, but firmly cement you above them.

Dominant men don't waste their time on losers. You either ignore and continue on your merry way, or you sabotage them covertly, not overtly. Destroy their reputation in the court of public opinion and let their own words hang them. Let them get rattled, not you.

[BlackHussar]

Mizo, I agree with your active, yet polite stance. You stopped him from making a habit of mocking you and creating the office clown out of you. As they say, prevention is better than cure.

Investment Bro, it's obvious that you are both older and more experienced than me. I value your insight very much and I agree that I do need to make some life changes - I'm here to learn, after all.

You know, for me, it's just one of those things that no one ever taught you. I have a great father, he is a manly figure and has taught me a lot, but I haven't really talked to any older male role mode about, for example, this type of situation. I believe everyone has some things he learned on his own, because no matter how good a father, an older brother or an uncle you have, they can't teach you everything and prepare you for every situation on this Earth.

My point is, as you can see, I had several ideas on how to deal with this, but I didn't have an opinion on what would be the best option for a dominant man - laughing it off, violent domination, witty domination... Sometimes, we young studs simply don't know what to do, as multiple options seem good, and we don't possess enough knowledge (experience) of the world to know which one is most effective, or which one would a dominant man pick, if you please.

I use the alpha/beta dichotomy for simplicity - "us vs. them". In reality, I believe it's more of a spectrum (to quote the liberals, heh). A beta provider with a slightly bossy, but decent "wifey", who exercises regularly and isn't a total cunt, is Chad Thundercock for an incel who didn't wash himself for a week.

The doubts of the young man in dealing with beta sabotage are not similar to asking "Is this beta?"; rather they are akin to "I think this is alpha, but I think this is also alpha. What should I do?".

TL; DR: "I'm young and I don't know, brother. Teach me."
Thank you again for your input!

[Alpone]

Less is more. I used to have a manager who had a way of dealing with passive-aggressive soyboy comments by simply saying, "Um, OK" and giving the guy a weird look - like what he said was the most inappropriate, low-status thing he's ever heard. It worked.

[Mizo1234]

(09-08-2018 05:19 PM)Alpone Wrote:  

Less is more. I used to have a manager who had a way of dealing with passive-aggressive soyboy comments by simply saying, "Um, OK" and giving the guy a weird look - like what he said was the most inappropriate, low-status thing he's ever heard. It worked.

I agree with less is more but not in every situation . Lets say he is mocking you and other ppl are joining him or laughing at his jokes. Um, ok would not do any good here. You have to tell him his attitude will not tolerated.

[gework]

I've found the best way in life to deal with situations where someone is playing such a dominance game with you is to refuse it, in a way like Investment Bro says.

There is nothing that devalues an argument more than refusing to engage with it. Your saying, what you are saying has so little value that I'm not going to waste my time on it.

Last Christmas I happened to be in the same place as this guy who when he was younger used to be a player and popular, but that all ended for him and he is now a chubby, angry leftist to explain his depressed life. Despite drifting increasingly far left he is the most hierarchical and dismissive person I've ever known. He has no time for people who he thinks are below him and lets them know that.

He decided he was going to call me out on a political issue in a very contentious manner and in a very showman style as to get everyone's attention. I just made a light facial expression to say "this is nothing" - that is the best way I think you can leave such a situation. You're not going to get angry, you're not going to try and play a game with them - you don't need to. It was like his stupid face, which looks like it is permanently inflamed from being injected with wasp venom, plapped into a cow pat.

To give you an example, make this face:



When someone tells you to resize the image you posted.

[The Stronger Sex]

If a beta recognizes you as an alpha he won't mock you. He will pat your back, tell you what a cool guy you are and offer you to fuck his girlfriend.