[James Bond Next level]

Great points already made in the thread, I may reformulate some and add my views.

First, the root of all that? Higher pussy price. Feminism and weak men did it and we have to pay for it. The best proof for that is MGTOW, our parent's generation would not understand it, since "pussy shares" were more affordable back then.

Some consequences of higher pussy price:

• Girls are more bitchy/entitled
• Girls are less likely to settle down, even just to be FB (personal experience). A lot of the time it's ONS only
• More girls are single
• Girls can show more of their slut side (nobody to disapprove), so they sleep around more
• Girls judge on more superficial stuff like our appearance (again, nobody to disapprove and when you have too much choice, you judge on random attributes)
  

So there are no real "new techniques", only ways to increase our values even more. As someone said it "faking it isn't enough anymore, now you have to provide it". I, myself am working hard to build a real attractive lifestyle. IMO, our options to maximize what we can get is:

• Make our appearance as best as it can be (workout, eat right, style on point, etc)
• Do what you fear to increase even more you confidence (e.g. I did skydiving even though I'm afraid of heights)
• Learn how to talk to girls
• Find a niche in game (become a bartender/personal trainer, find a specific daygame spot, etc)
• Move out of big cities like NYC/LA to smaller cities (a 1M-city is still enough for variety of activities and girls) : competition is way lower, trust me
• Build a kickass business (typically millionaire stuff)
• Have a wide social circle
  

For the last post, IMO it's why there are many betas with average girls. If we could cold approach her (night typically), we would see her entitled and would usually get rejected. But this girl, even if she hides it well, is thirsty for a cock and a relationship. So after a while, she finally accept the advances of one beta in her social circle and start dating. It's stupid I know, but it's just one more illogical behaviors of girls. My sister is a perfect example of that.
Cold approach is still doable of course (I rely heavily on it), but don't expect high ROI, you must either approach a lot or refine it precisely and more importantly check a lot of the items I put on the list.

[Skank_Hunt]

I agree with pretty much everything sensible said in this thread.

Unfortunately I don't see much of a solution.

Perspicacity's contribution and idea of a black pill forum is a good idea. Be sure to check out his previous post that he links to about day game in particular. The rationale is this:

1. "Black Pill" on its own is pure fucking depressing. Even if most of it is true and argued by MGTOWs, if I read that shit all day, which I have on occasion, especially in my early days on this forum, I am guaranteed to be hopeless, demoralized, depressed, and paralyzed into inaction. Obviously this is not good.

2. Taking action despite the decline on various fronts, essentially trying our best to circumvent and/or minimize the negative impact of "Black Pill" realities, should be the goal. This can instill hope, and lead to positive action. I don't fully blame MGTOWs for going their own way, but whether we like it or not lack of sex with decent looking women at least will lead any rational man to go insane to varying degrees. It isn't just a "desire", it's a basic need for basic health. Yes, without air you die pretty quickly, but the death from going MGTOW and never having sex is just a long, drawn-out bunch of distractions from painful existence until your inevitable death. There is a distinct flavor of toxic negativity that looks down on guys trying to have sex with women. I would say to them, hey, guys, I get it, I really do, shit sucks out there in so many ways, but let's at least try to get something so that we don't all go insane.

To be honest, in this market, I will be happy with a bunch of low drama 7s in FSU, and even that is a difficult ask, Russian language just the start. Other guys can dedicate their lives and their bank accounts to IG attention whores and other "non-pros" who are in such demand that they request a minimum maintenance fee. When a girl is sitting on your face all you can see is her vagina and her asshole. As long as she is not fat does it matter that the face licking your balls is a 7 or an A+++ 9/10 instagram thot?

[PapayaTapper]

(09-07-2018 07:18 PM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  

When a girl is sitting on your face all you can see is her vagina and her asshole. As long as she is not fat does it matter that the face licking your balls is a 7 or an A+++ 9/10 instagram thot?

Yes

[LINUX]

(09-06-2018 07:19 PM)Perspicacity Wrote:  

On the topic of what beer mentioned earlier in this thread: I've been considering for a while now starting a blackpill game forum (on cordial terms with RVF) for young guys. Maybe even only allow open registration for under-27 guys, with guys over 27 being confirmed in on a case-by-case basis. (E.g. IIRC corsega is over 26, but keeps it real as fuck without the condescension, lame wannabe Big Baller Trolling, value-tapping, and out-of-touchness that a lot of the older guys have.)


Call it the 'Millennial/X borderkids social media support group' and have corsega as our group counselor / drill sergeant. Confess when we step on the scales and don't meet our follower gain targets for the week, lol.

Out of 170 people on the forum that I've met, very few guys over 27 or even 37 are out of touch with reality.

Let me explain something to you. When us older men started game, we had to hand-write girls notes at school to tell them how we felt. It worked well because there were no cell phones. Then we called their house to talk to their parents and asked permission to speak to them. Then along came IRC and that worked for a while, then the golden age for nightlife 2001-2005 and spring break and beads and titty flashes. Then along came hotornot, then myspace, then facebook, then we started daygamming, then along came Instagram, then nightlife started working again because women were tired of internet dating. Why have been able to put up 20-100 notches a year, every year, for the past 20 years?

Because it is not the strongest species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the ones most responsive to change. I read your blackpill thesis that you linked and all I see is you complaining, saying "This is not what I signed up for. I don't want to waste my life away in the gym ". Etc.

You're upset that the world didn't turn out how you thought it would, like most people your age, and you're not willing to do the work to adapt and change.

And your value tapping nonsense. If you adopt the belief that people are friends with others (short, fat, ugly, other ethnicities, deaf, blind, clinically depressed ) based on value tapping, you're going to die a very lonely man. When you age , your friends will always be the ones who were there for you when you needed them the most. You could give two shits what they look like or how many women a year they are banging.

You can discredit the older guys if you wish, but truthfully, we're the only hope you've got because we've seen it all and adapted to it.

When we were your age, we played football everyday, had wrestling practice, read muscle magazines, hit the gym, and worked the fields. The PUA era came along and worked well because it was something new to women to have men be funny and start conversations about silly shit. Men who could make women laugh could do just as well as us meatheads. But now men are pussies, they all try to be funny to women and be their friends and ask for advice, and give them instant gratification on social media and tell them how pretty they are at the club and now women are instead looking for real men who look like they could bend them over and fuck the shit out of them.

Adapt to change or get left behind.

[Noir]

(09-06-2018 08:32 AM)Palo_alto Wrote:  

I don´t know man. The biggest players I know, the ones with the hottest bitches, fastest cars and biggest wallets keep a very low profile in terms on internet game.

I am talking Instagram account with 400 followers (Closer friends and family member) and a Facebook with only family members to keep the elderly updated.

I am trying to move into this direction. I even have professional pics taken at one point. Did I fuck a lot of gals? Maybe. Did I ever fuck a 10 out of that? Never.
Competition is crazy. Better build an awesome life and live it that way. There are a lot of hot bitches that they do not want to deal with the social media crap anymore.

This coincides with my experience too, it's not impossible to get laid now, it's actually the same shit if you push the specific buttons.

It's just harder to be the kind of guy who is the guy who is currently getting laid without social media though.

What makeup is to 6s, social media is to the male 6.

The reason these forums emerged and continue to exist is because you add part sociopaths, part autists and part narcissists and you get people dissecting and emulating it.

Repetition of this eventually turns into a skill.

If you're saying it's highly unlikely you just aren't the type of guy who 'gets it' with or without social media.

2 of my best friends are like this. You're just a don't give a fuck DOG. They both have very limited social media exposure and are pretty boss at their corporate jobs. Top of that food chain because that's what they focus on.

Their behaviour towards others is aggressive, it's calculated, it's assertive and it flows. They're charismatic and fun to be around and can leave at any moment.

They have minimal social media presence. One of them has an instagram and another has a facebook account. It's oldschool in a way of having a reputation. It's real. It doesn't need cheerleaders.

This is why there's such a big divide here. Guys think it's necessary because indeed, perhaps, for them, it might be necessary. Or they view it as a great ancilliary tool to showcase your cool life.

It's both and you have to be a narcissist to water the plants. You might be the guy who does cool shit, has fun and doesn't think to interrupt the moment and take a photo of it. Memories are memories.

Instagram for example is pretty much an advertising platform for humans to other humans. This is kind of what it boils down to. Take a pic, throw it on, get on everyones radar, harvest that attention and feedback.

Every user is guilty of this and so am I. It's a log and it's your reference for when you're getting into social circles. You meet a girl, she's inviting you to a party on Saturday and she doesn't take your number, it's your Facebook and your Instagram.

It's at an 'arms distance' kinda communication.

(09-05-2018 07:51 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

In a lot of cases, I try to limit the amount of advice I take from older guys because so many of them are just so out of touch with the modern age. It comes with old age for guys to be set in their ways and become more stubborn as opposed to adjusting to the given times. Then add to that there is envy among some older men who see younger men in their prime living out some of their youth which makes the intentions not as good when giving these young men advice.

You should discard the advice of older men who don’t resemble the man you aspire to be, not indiscriminately especially due to the fact they haven’t caught on instagram yet.

Different men of varying backgrounds, ethnicities, ages, wealth levels see shit you don’t see and you need to acknowledge that you have blind spots. You, me, the guy reading right now.

They have experience and they know women by sheer virtue of the amount of time they have spent around women in one way or another under circumstances you haven’t even considered yet.

You have limited exposure to what they go through and vice versa (technological approach to meeting women). Guess what? You’re gonna also reach that age and women are still going to be women, long after their instagram stories and past getting fingered on MDMA at a festival. They will still be women who will stick their foot out and trip you up if you’re not careful, neglect their needs or need a casual reminder.

I am definitely happy, at this age, to fit chasing tail into my life but this whole shit is bigger than that. It warrants more than seceding into a forum, treehouse, fort to discuss 40% of the whole picture. You, Perspicacity, whoever feels this way.

I don’t know shit about having kids, cohabiting with a woman for 5+ years and sharing my life with her. A partner, a friend and occasionally a pain in the ass.

Trends of meeting women are changing, sure but once you get past that initial 2-4 weeks of knowing a girl, they’re all the same within a reasonable standard deviation. If you’re a tight guy, she knows to not fuck with you, got your shit together then you will attract what you are and deserve.

At least don’t ignore the older guys in your life because as I get older, I realize they knew what they were talking about and I was just a pompous smartass who had to learn the hard way.

I suggest you take a break from the forums and experiment instead of starting another forum. Find what works for you. It seems to be a problem so solve it.

If you want to be a good athlete, you aren't just running sprints. You are doing conditioning, weight training, have a sports psychologist, nutritionist, etc.

It's multi-faceted. Zoom out and acknowledge the value laid out for the tomorrow you, not the now.

There are women everywhere. I met a woman at a bar on Thursday (yes, the 2:30AM kind) and we kicked it off. I wasn't even trying to fuck her, I was just curious about her. She responded well to this and requested my social media information so she can send me an invitation to a party today under the pre-text, and I quote "I have friends who are hot and you will want to be there".

That alone, is a combination of old school approach and new age preselection to get an 'in' into another pool of hot single women. I would still be invited to that party without social media but it helped because I saw her friends and can decide if it's worth the Saturday afternoon or not.

Pools of hot women exist, they just are being 'protected' under certain pretexts.

For what it's worth, one of the mates from above (old school anti-SM) was with me and he was busy grabbing arses and spinning tales for women before he disappears back in to his world of making money. Girls don't question because he has presence and this is key.

I digress but I want to make it clear it's not binary. It's just harder to be the zero fucks guy who kills it without social media because you give a fuck, by virtue of worrying, posting and seeking this feedback.

Life is good man. Enjoy it. If you have the inclination to interrupt what you're enjoying to take photos and spread it then go for it.

It's what all these social media experts discuss with 'reach'. You are 'reaching' so many more girls with SM but it's latent.

[ActaNonVerba]

Let me share something important with all of you. Before I discovered RvF I was getting laid all the time. I was (and still am) young and having fun. Girls quickly noticed me being myself and being carefree. I wouldn't care about the outcome either. It's like a shark being able to smell a drop of blood in the water, they simply love that in a man. And damn, how much I loved that time. They often say that the man with the least possessions and understanding of the world is the happiest. I moved out of my parents home and got my own bachelor pad downtown. I traveled to the U.S., Eastern Europe, Scandinavia, you name it and I went there. I wasn't a natural and I will most likely never be. Coming from Western-Europe we simply aren't as charismatic compared to men from other parts of the world but that doesn't matter because still I have all the ingredients that seems to work perfectly.

It was only when getting in touch with the "scene" (I don't have a real name for it) and finding out that there's such a thing that people are actively gaming that brought down my performances for a good long time. I don't blame anyone on that. I still consider it one of the most important discoveries during my life as I am convinced it will have a net positive result on the long term. It already does. It made me go self-employed and being capable of moving out of the West which is dream coming true. At that time I was concerned about the nature of women and comparing my results to other men. It made my LTR with a beautiful Siberian girl toxic as I was trying all these so called "red pill stuff" and that didn't work at all. Being myself is what had always worked. I was never thinking in terms of beta and alpha and I managed to have a LTR for several years. I had to find myself which I did after some self reflection. I had to find out what I want. I traveled to some nice places and everything went back to normal.

Call me ignorant but I decided to live in my own bubble. You have to create your own happiness. Your own rules and reality. It doesn't mean you're ignoring things the way they are. And another man's hell is another man's paradise. Don't walk the path of others because you think it's the way to go. There are some general truth bombs you should absorb such as the nature of women. And you should adapt to new strategies and ways of living. But It's pointless to be toxic on the in- and outside about some things. Make the best out of life, you only live it once. I can't be without women and you should know they can't for sure be without us men.

I'm back at the level of living where I used to be. Smarter and wiser which will prevent a lot of struggle in the future. But carefree, focused on improving my life in all ways possible. Your own sanity and happiness comes first. You'll have to work for it but everything else you desire comes your way automatically that way.

And remember those famous words by James Brown?

This is a man's world, this is a man's world
But it wouldn't be nothing, nothing without a woman or a girl

[Akwesi]

I agree with a lot of thoughts in this thread. My perspective is different as I go to Africa regularly. It's incredible seeing how every hot girl even in these poor, faraway countries is caught up in the web of apps and social media or more directly whoring themselves out to expats, tourists and corrupt local elites. The things they put up as their status also get continuously more outrageous, vulgar and degenerate year by year - much of it obviously inspired by both white and black Western idols.

Nonetheless, the West itself remains much worse in terms of conditions for men and utter degeneracy. In Denmark, a 35y/o Iranian politician for the government party is bragging about how she's been plowed by more than 100 men, after being "inspired" when a girls she talked to complained about getting shamed for riding 17 dicks in a 4 year period. There's even a campaign: #over10. I guess this is nothing new, but I find it mind-boggling none the less. The "lady" has been a candidate for Parliament before and aspires to run again. Feel free to google giant attention-whore/whore Anahita Malakians, it's a solid WNB from me. She says she hopes to find a "steady boyfriend" again some day and only has three kids from before, time for someone to "man up" in other words and stop unfairly treating her like a mentally deranged cum dumpster.

[Skank_Hunt]

(09-08-2018 12:56 AM)LINUX Wrote:  

You can discredit the older guys if you wish, but truthfully, we're the only hope you've got because we've seen it all and adapted to it.

Adapt to change or get left behind.

Break it down. I've heard a few high post, high rep guys posting fantastic results in typical big baller style, but when asked about the specifics, it all goes a bit blurry and evasive. I'm not asking to be spoonfed, especially on a public forum, because that would lead to the destruction of your method.

What I mean is, it's not just that things have changed (neutral), it's that things have changed markedly for the worse. I am not sure I am as old as you Linux but I was around in the "notes to girls", "ring parents house to ask to talk to the girl", "hotornot", "myspace" etc. days, and I could pull very cute girls and the seduction was actually pleasant. I didn't feel pressured, the girls had such good attitudes that I just enjoyed being around them, they were on my side, and it was natural that a relationship of some sort followed. Sometimes the girl would ask me coyly when I'm gonna make a move on her. I was just chilling. Because I could afford to be.

No 1000 orbiters on social media, far less thirst IRL because most girls were thin, attractive and feminine. Sure a few more guys might fancy her from afar but these were never threats. Maybe one or two would put in any sort of reasonable attempt. Competition was nothing compared to now. Then we have attitudes. As I said above it was a pleasure to go through the "seduction process" because it honestly just seemed like a natural friendship, with sex. Now if you want a very pretty girl (7+) in the US or even EE, even upon success (sex), it feels like a sort of "battle". Attitudes are infinitely worse than they used to be in the "paper note passing days", and due to smartphones it's spreading everywhere, so eventually you won't be able to run from the girls of today as smartphone zombies.

The fact is that even if you're getting good results compared to most guys, all other things being equal compared to those days you and I fondly remember, you have to work a lot harder for inferior women both in terms of looks and personality.

I don't agree that Perspicacity's original "black pill" post was moaning, though I am sure a lot of you big ballers perceive it as such. It was in my opinion a very astute post about what is actually happening.

Either you guys have a specific "in" which shields you from the exponentially declining SMP, or you are deluded.

I understand that we have to adapt, but apart from one or two ingenious adaptations, there is, as I said, no shielding oneself from the SMP. You can get on a plane and things can improve, but again, things are spreading via technology. That's what the OP was trying to get at.

I'm not accusing you, Linux, of using money, local fame, or other technically "non-game" attributes to attract women, but I am suspicious that directly or indirectly, some big ballers are dropping money or showing off their nice car or even going to soft P4P, and these are the "adaptations". I don't blame guys for doing this, whatever works for you; it's just that outright denial and dismissal of the current reality compared to 10, 20 years ago is just burying your head in the sand.

My point is: Maybe you are the one in a thousand men who has managed to find himself a niche where you can still get results at the level you could get regardless of external change. However, this is absolutely, without any shadow of a doubt, not the norm, because shit has changed, drastically. So if you, Linux, are still doing very well, I don't begrudge you that, but for all the guys out there struggling, they will read posts like yours and consider that outside factors are irrelevant and it is their fault. Perspicacity's "Black Pill" essay was depressing, but on point with reality more than your vague "adapt or fail" summary.

I personally do agree with you that adaptation is key, and I don't think it should be shared in the public forum, because everyone again, especially lurkers, will jump on it. If you actually broke shit down, there are many people myself included who would be very appreciative of what you had to say.

[Taltos]

Some very raw and honest observations in the last few pages, although I think we are trying to discuss two different parts of how game has changed in 2018, namely:

How does a man can bed the type of women his heart really desires on consistent* basis?
How does a man navigate and handle longer and healthy engagements with the type of women his heart really desires?
*as much as you can be consistent in these matters

In regards with the first question - adapt and rise to the challenge folks. The reason more seasoned men scoff at the idea that shit has gotten that bad is because, well, it’s always been like this for younger men. Higher value pussy requires higher value men, and that means maximizing yourself - whether that’s looks, your income or ability to lead and control yourself. Consistently banging high end pussy has always been tricky unless you are at a higher tier yourself and it’s always been very influenced by social status or your ability to navigate a specific niche. More importantly, improving yourself takes time - time you can’t suddenly bypass just cause you want to.

Very practically speaking as a guy in my early 30s - no amount of game would’ve changed the fact that a certain tier of women was simply not consistently reachable for me due to lack of sufficient income to be where they spent most of their time and not having the looks to cover for that. I might have gotten occasionally lucky by day game or online, but nothing that can be called consistent. Moving up income wise and location wise in my mid-20s had a significant impact, followed by further ability to attract even hotter chicks nowadays due to a more mature look that works for me.

I still feel there is a lot of space to grow into, hence adaption - learn for example Instagram game and the appropriate skills to be noticed there, look into the right places locally where you can still be introduced to the type of women you want to meet, try to improve your social circle, etc. Being able to meet those women often is half the battle - specifically because of all the soy that they get introduced to in their daily lives. Once you can consistently are able to meet new women of the tier you desire, the rest is very, very individual and dependent on your game, type of people you vibe with and how you are able to build attraction. It’s very difficult to not say that the issue is yourself if you are able to meet X number of new chicks but not converting at least several - hence seasoned men will tell you that it’s an issue with your own game and value since they’ve seen how personal changes had significant positive impact on their performance with women.

In regards with the second question - whole sub-sets of the game community have risen on the topic of how difficult it is to build healthy longer relationships with your average westernized woman PERSONALITY. The hard reality is that it’s less about whether they are a 6 or a 9 and more about the fact that most westernized women are increasingly more likely to act promiscuously, entitled, untrustworthy, in a psychologically damaging manner, greedy and often rude. How you deal with that I think starts with consistently doing your vetting and boundaries. The examples mentioned so far in the thread all share similar background - entitled chick taking advantage of soy men in her life giving her vast resources because of hot pussy. The appropriate response to that has always been the same - try to bang her if you can and it will not impact you mentally (i.e. is she a toxic presence in your life) but disqualify for anything more since she is at this stage not going to be worthy of any significant investment on your end.

If ALL women in the scene you are chasing are toxic in their behavior and you feel that has a negative impact on you, then either you are taking them seriously when you shouldn’t or you are insisting on focusing on a niche that you can’t handle. The repeatedly mentioned Instagram ‘models’ are a good example of that - the type of women that want to build 100k of followers on Instagram are almost never women that are not toxic presence in your life. I’ve met a number of those in the last years and its either a) chicks that are ‘online’ valuable but not actually as hot as you thought b) hot body with the crazy to match. If you tried to build a relationship out of a women like that, odds are you will pay a price down the road and it won’t be pretty.

So yeah, game is definitely changing in 2018. But then again it’s the technicalities of it that are different compared to couple of years ago when it comes to banging new chicks. In regards with trying to build relationships or family - heavy vetting and threading carefully is recommended at all times.

[mr-ed209]

I think the advent of social media is providing women with a lot of baseline comfort which otherwise would be non existent in their lives and would normally be satisfied through having a conventional LTR with a man. The result is there is no real strong incentive for younger women to seek out conventional LTR's anymore and even less incentive for women to personally develop and be responsible.

One hashed out theory I have is that women are very selective with their energy to go out and do things. I feel like many of them live at such a low baseline level of inactivity, some planning more major getaways to go and enjoy themselves such as trips away travelling, music festivals etc - and the rest quite happy to live as hermits somewhat afraid of the outside world. It is in these 'getaways' that most women are very approachable and dudes can have the most success. The rest of their time is spent almost hibernating living in some false reality. Propagated by Netflix marathons and getting their social fixes through digital vices like facebook, instagram as well as stringing along thirsty orbiters on Tinder/Bumble. It's created such an easy living environment for women, an uber extended adolescence with free dopamine spikes, free from the challenges of actually leaving the house and meeting real people.

Maybe it's comparable to how the sex drives of each sex operate. As men we're 'always on' in many senses, we have a near constant drive to seek out and look at new women and to be engaged with challenges and danger etc. Women on the other hand maybe experience that for 1 week per month during ovulation. Their lack of a baseline sex drive also seems to correlate with a lack of motivation to go out into the 'relative' danger of the outside world. I think this is indicative from modern danger narratives such as 'rape culture' which are more imaginings of female neuroticism than having any basis in reality. Considering there has never been a single time or place in history when it were safer to be a woman, such narratives are not only false but dangerous to the women who take them on board.

I think guys are getting increasingly frustrated with this development but fundamentally don't really understand what is going on. Many are flocking to narratives of self improvement and responsibility. As represented by the success of figures such as Jordan Peterson. There's more 'gym fit' in shape guys than ever before - but it doesn't really count for all that much. Obviously hot women have always been an in demand commodity, but I think the entitlement and difficulty factor is stretching down the SMP to women who have very little to offer.

[LINUX]

(09-08-2018 10:58 AM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  

~ post
.
.

I'll try to break it down to you tonight when I am alone.

[Skank_Hunt]

I agree with everything you say, mr-ed209. I would add that these in shape guys are becoming so common now that it is nowhere near as impactful as it once was. A lot of these guys are on steroids, sacrificing their long-term health and a hell of a lot of time, effort, money and freedom whether in the gym or cooking/eating food or drinking thick protein shakes, getting generic sleeve tattoos to look more "alpha", most of this to be able to reach the basic minimum to bang a 5 or 6 on tinder. I know some of these guys and there's a fine line between "willing to put in the effort" and "being an idiot". 15 years ago I was in hospital and was by no means huge, I just had low bodyfat and I lifted, so I had more of a male model look with a well defined chest. Back and shoulders were there but if I had my clothes on, especially baggy clothes, you could easily have mistaken me for being skinny or average. In hospital I was hooked up to so many monitors that it required me to wear no shirt. At first I thought I was imagining it but the young nurses would walk in the ward and steal glances at me then look down embarrassed before continuing. A hot nurse was standing my my bed and pressing her thighs into mine when she absolutely had no need to do so (nothing to reach). Then when she left she ran her hand down my thigh. I was quite sick at the time, nowhere near optimally fit, and it was as if these girls had never seen muscles before. Today by comparison two things have changed: 1. female availability and thirst has declined massively; and 2. muscle bound gorillas are quite common, such that I look like a stick in comparison. I'm an ectomorph so it's impossible for me to get up to the mass that a lot of the men are at, especially when half of them use steroids or growth hormones. So as far as "putting in the work", there is nothing I can do about the above two factors. I or any other guy can optimize his body but he's nothing particularly special even if he ends up very respectably ripped.

At the same time I see skinny guys with no apparently exceptional external features with very pretty girls. I think so much of it revolves around access. When guys leave high school and college, they often struggle because their next destination, the workplace, usually has far fewer viable options in it. At least in college there are hot girls everywhere. Men using online game heavily geared towards looks are putting all this work in to compensate for this lack of access. If I had to do college again, I would have gone to a cheaper southern state college with the best quality girls. Most non-speciality degrees are useless anyway, even Ivy League degrees have limited use nowadays. But I digress.

Before the whole internet 2.0, in any social circle I was in, I knew which girls were "looking" for a BF. I mean, there was actual tangible thirst and discomfort from the girl, that she was single. It wasn't just about sex, it was about the inability to be alone, and the need for emotional intimacy, the protection of a man. Nowadays women don't really feel that anymore, they get it from their phones.

[a beer is enough]

Corsega - Glad to see you know where I come from.

Kaotic - Completely fine bro, I know you come from a good place.

I do agree with you on so many levels though, the base has to be there. As a guy, you have to put in the effort to maximize your looks, find a life calling/career and have somewhat decent game. What I was really getting at is that you have to also go above and beyond that and I don't think guys, especially on this forum, should aspire for mediocrity. I do think that with enough hustle and a good plan, a lot of guys here can get in good shape and make a solid income, some even have millionaire potential so I see no point in telling men here to settle for less with women or life.

I'll be damned if you wifed up anything below an 8 yourself Kaotic.

As for how much we are willing to sacrifice as men to get top tier pussy, I think that's for another thread but the truth is that to get hot girls, you do need to make certain sacrifices in life and lifestyle. I mean Roosh himself went out of the US to get hot girls which was a smart move and this forum would have likely never existed if he decided to forget about that desire.

It just varies from guy to guy but I don't fault men for being honest with themselves and making the big sacrifices in lifestyle to get hot girls.

But I have been thinking more of this thread and I think the best way to describe today's situation is that men are no longer seen as men, we are seen brands in today's world. The best brands in business are always adapting and a step ahead of everyone.

The way women go for men these days is the same way a lot of us would go about deciding what type of car to purchase. As a guy, whether or not you like it, you are a brand in today's superficial world. The attention span of our generation is short and your goal becomes, somehow, to separate yourself from the pack.

Going back to my example of going to your local neighborhood store versus going to Amazon, back in the day it was likely that if you needed something and your local store had a lower quality version of it then you settled and took it because that was all you had. Now you can just get on Amazon and get the highest quality version of it.

Online dating and dating apps are the same version of this, girls no longer have to stick to their neighborhood to meet the best men, they can hop online and get the best quality. I have seen guys pull hot girls from dating apps so I don't see why we think you are going to get 6s at best from them. It all comes down to presenting the best version of yourself and having pics that show you get it.

I think given the decline of marriage the rampant hypergamy, we are in an age where natural selection is taking effect although in a more passive way.

(09-07-2018 08:23 AM)kuqezi Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 11:57 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 11:56 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  

This is a good thread, I hope a beer is enough doesn't shit all over it.

Odds are he will though.

You seem to be angry at me for old posts and I am not trying to make this thread personal. No need to steer it in the direction of drama, if you have an axe to grind, PM me and lets talk about it there. Based on reactions to my first comment on here, people don't seem to think I am shitting on it so lets let the relevant discussion go on.

@beer: You my friend are thirsty! Your only goal in life is (in your own words) to fuck lots and lots of hot girls. Flash news, you won't!
I am waiting for a datasheet of being a bartender and landing 9s every night!

Tell me why I won't, seriously, I want to dig more into your mindset. I really want to know if you genuinely believe it is unrealistic for a guy to do that and are therefore trying to drag this forum down or if it is something personal you have against me.

I'll be making that datasheet years from now alright and you'll be thanking me.

[a beer is enough]

(09-08-2018 12:47 PM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  

At the same time I see skinny guys with no apparently exceptional external features with very pretty girls. I think so much of it revolves around access. When guys leave high school and college, they often struggle because their next destination, the workplace, usually has far fewer viable options in it. At least in college there are hot girls everywhere. Men using online game heavily geared towards looks are putting all this work in to compensate for this lack of access. If I had to do college again, I would have gone to a cheaper southern state college with the best quality girls. Most non-speciality degrees are useless anyway, even Ivy League degrees have limited use nowadays. But I digress.

Those skinny guys likely have social status or some kind of an in there.

I will never understand this mentality guys have about life after college. Even though I went to a fun party school, I still saw way more sexier and available women in NYC and other cities I stayed in compared to my university. The best part is I noticed that approaching them actually worked because you did not have to deal with the cut-throat social politics that come with gaming girls at a typical state school where top tier frats and athletes have monopoly over them.

The grass is always greener in some cases.

You may think you go to a state school and its all raining hot girls until you realize that most of those hot girls are exclusively getting with athletes, fraternity guys in the top frats (which are real tough to get into) or some dude who has exceptional status and is perceived as cool by her.

I'd argue that in the real world and in a major city, you have much more room for creativity. The best looking women aren't as heavily locked into tight-knit social circles like they are in college (eg: sororities).

[questor70]

(09-08-2018 12:14 PM)mr-ed209 Wrote:  

women are very selective with their energy to go out and do things. I feel like many of them live at such a low baseline level of inactivity

Meaning...they're inherently lazy? I believe it.

You know the whole deal about not knowing if the light really goes out in the fridge when you close the door? That's how I've come to think about women's public vs. private facade.

Women are experts at projecting a glamorous public facade but more often than not, their home life is a complete mess. If you come over their place for a planned date, everything will seem in its place. But a couple days later there will be dirty laundry randomly strewn all around the bed and stray hairs clogging the drain.

Now, my sample size is small, but that's been my experience when I invariably managed to get over her place unexpectedly and there was enough of a trust factor that she didn't think I'd judge her too harshly.

So when JP says "clean your room", that advice is equally healthy for both genders (not to suggest I am that much of a clean freak myself, mind you).

I really don't know how things were in the 1950s but being a homemaker is a fulltime job and a lost art. When women entered the workforce it became difficult to do both and feminism devalued household chores anyway, so it lowered the bar on what constituted an acceptable household lifestyle.

[Teedub]

This is like the current thing of Eminem v the new school kids isn't it... anyway.

None of the guys I know who do best with women ever use online/digital dating. In fact, that's a lie - one did try Bumble in Canada, realised what shows value in real life (for him) didn't translate digitally and deleted the app... week later he was with his current gf via social circle.

It's a young man's game IMO. As someone in their early-mid 30's, hearing the 22 year old lads at work talking about "insta" this, "filter" that, "bro" etc 24/7, all the while listening to terrible mumble rap and dance music, I'm happy to step aside. I'm not saying it's useless, I'm saying I genuinely have better things to do. It's all incredibly feminine too, so is the obsession with the gym (not working out in general)... especially for a men's movement that holds Fight Club in such high regard. I'll get torn apart for that last bit, but I don't care because I'm right.

It's like Joe Rogan "Yeah man, fuck the system bro, fuck consumerism dude, Tyler Durdan maaan....oh but buy my ONNIT subscription and get your nutrition advice straight to your smartphone and my free kettlebell workout."

Those 22 year old guys I work with are big lads, fitness-model shape, but if you put them one on one in a room with Tommy Robinson — I'd bet everything I have on him. You instagram lads can have your vapid Kardashian clones. I think Roosh is right in that online stuff is dying and decent girls are burned out with and are crying out for real life approaches from genuinely interesting guys. If you're interesting in real life, you're interesting enough for her to show to her friends... you don't need an Instagram profile for that.

[Graft]

(09-05-2018 07:51 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

I think what has happened is that the rise of the social media and digital age has changed the way status and attractiveness of a man is presented to women. The mass cold-approach might have worked twenty years ago before the days of social media and the pickup movement was based on that. In its early years, things like approaching women at bars and chatting with them actually worked.

What has happened now is that with dating apps and social media, women prefer guys who are good at making themselves appear attractive in photos and showcase their fantasy than tell them about it. As women have become more focused on looks than they were in the past and more status conscious, certain kinds of men who have caught on and fulfilled that niche have been the ones who are regularly getting hot girls.

I am not going to discount cold approach entirely, at times it can net good results, but I think what has become key for men now is to make themselves appear attractive in photos and socially desired in the social media age. The guys with high quality pics of them doing awesome things, having a quality social life and thousands of friends and followers are the ones women are genuinely curious about.

The way I think of it, just like we as a society went from going to corner stores and supermarkets to shopping online at Amazon, women have gone from shopping for guys at bars to shopping for them online.

Most of the gurus and experts out there have not picked up on this which has left a lot of men who generally listen to their advice lonely and frustrated.

The social media dislike is killing guys in the current age because it is like they are trying to fight against the change.

In a lot of cases, I try to limit the amount of advice I take from older guys because so many of them are just so out of touch with the modern age. It comes with old age for guys to be set in their ways and become more stubborn as opposed to adjusting to the given times. Then add to that there is envy among some older men who see younger men in their prime living out some of their youth which makes the intentions not as good when giving these young men advice.

I think we are in the dark ages right now because guys aren't able to catch up with the rapid change as it is happening.

One of the best RVF posts in recent history, a beer is enough has been knocking it out of the park.

I'll admit I have taken a break from the forum/red pill stuff because of this realization. I feel like most guys who read RVF/red pill keep hammering on cold approach and making excuses against the internet. It reminds me of Blockbuster and the old brick and mortar stores that wanted to hold out against e-commerce for the longest time and eventually died.

When I bit the bullet and started flashing my life across different social media outlets, my results grew by 10x at least. I have girls messaging me daily. Granted, I have the lifestyle and looks to pull this off. But my lifestyle/money would be next to useless if I didnt market it properly.

I used to be an AFC who would just swipe on apps and cold approach, get numbers and start the chase.

My new formula revolves entirely around social media-post high value pictures of traveling, my good looking friends, baller lifestyle, physique, etc. Anytime I get a lead, from approach, apps, social circle, whatever, I bounce them to one of my social media outlets so she can see all of this. Instead of me having 20 random numbers in my phone, I have 20 new faces/profiles/stories that I can reply to, message at any time. It's like a virtual CRM (customer relationship management tool). If I cold approach and the lead goes no where, if she forgets about me a month later, she can see my high value story and pop into my DMs again.

I have average game at best-I'm sure most of the guys on the forum can outpull me if they had as many leads as I do. The key is, I never care about leads anymore, because I've set myself up to have so many leads to make up for my below average game.

If you actually live a typical RVF lifestyle, of traveling, lifting weights, going out (hopefully with friends), dressing well, you're just a fucking idiot if you don't take the time to cultivate an online presence to show to girls. It's night and day between the leads you get when you have a dope online presence vs not.

On separate not, the biggest difference in the modern era is options. Any girl you are in FWB or LTR with is going to be secretly managing hundreds or thousands of male options through her social media profiles. The only way for a male to be on equal options footing is through social media profiles, you just simply cannot juggle dozens of girls on the backburner through text or phone call.

If one girl gives me shit, I can just scroll through my followers and start messaging 50+ leads, pipeline through dating apps, etc. If I am in an LTR or FWB situation, I'll constantly be flirting across these apps to keep abundance mentality and my options wide open. If you refuse to use online, you are completely crippling yourself in the war of options that is modern day game.

[Hypno]

Some deep thoughts on this thread, but unfortunately mostly doom and gloom with a few notable exceptions. Kudos to those.

One thing that has changed is technology has enabled women and this has had a detrimental effect for all but the top 10% of men.

But ironically the source of the problem is also the source of the solution. There are two advantages technology still affords the average guy. First, technology allows instant communication at almost no cost. You can effectively make a hundred approaches or more.

Second, there are still attraction triggers that are inherent in women. [These are in Cialdini and other places] Being among the top 10% of men is not impossible if you define this broadly enough. For example, if you rob 20 banks you will become notorious and more famous than 90% of men. Obviously, don't go and rob banks but you see that being perceived in the top 10% is not impossible. A few examples.

I once was asked to be on a panel at a conference in my industry. At the dinner the night before, several women were fawning over me because they knew I was a (temporarily) famous/in charge person. Situationally I was famous or a leader. You can do this by being the President of a club or orgnaizaitoan, a Little League coach, whatever.

Similarly, guys are (to some extent) faking status with SA game and IG game. There are other ways to do this. Some people say this is not real game. Perhaps. Roosh ignores online in his new book, and he gives reasons that are valid. But he's in Eastern Europe. And when Neil Strauss popularized game, people reacted to it in a very similar fashion as those who say online "is not real game."

I'm not saying you have to be a fake. I'm just saying that technology has tilted the playing field against most guys. So one way to fight back is to use technology to put you in the top.

Here is a picture of James Altucher, a guy who is "internet famous"--mostly as a blogger, podcaster, and self-published aouthor, and his new wife or girlfriend. He's about 50 and while she's not a 10 or a spring chicken if you are a 50-year old Jewish guys she's close to a 9.



There are numerous posts on this forum already about IG, SA, and other types of game. I'm not going to rehash those here. But I would suggest that you view them in the context of what has changed and what is constant: what has changed is women expect a guy who is a 9, at least situationally, and what is constant are women's attraction triggers.

Other guys have moved to countries where the wealth or skin color or other attributes places them in the top 10%.

There are lots of guys who are having success, but increasingly you need to put yourself in situations where you are perceived to be at the top of the pack to be successful.

[don_quixote]

@Graft, it's just the two different sexual strategies. Each has it's own benefits and drawbacks..

r-selected (your strategy): Manage a farm of lower-probability prospects through displaying value across all those prospects in a passive way.

K-selected (my strategy): Have 3 or 4 girls on the phone that I actively message each day or two, working them like a salesman.

I'm actually considering trying your strategy but I always feel like a tryhard on social media, maybe I need to get over that..

[a beer is enough]

One trend I have seen come out of modern times is that with women being slower to pursue the family life, a lot of the fun and commitment-free type of lifestyle that people loved so much in college is extending out into the real world. I saw it first hand when I spent my early-20s in NYC, you had lots of people in their twenties partying real hard and having the time of their lives doing it. Its weird that I went to better parties and partied harder in NYC than I ever did in college.

In some ways, the saying "high school never ends" might actually be true now. Parts of major cities (NYC in particular) have become almost a post-college commitment-free space.

I think a lot of younger guys here can benefit from living in the right spots in a major city as they can yield the same success socially and dating-wise that being on a college campus did. So many of my friends from college moved to certain parts of NYC that other kids fresh out of college moved to, it was like some post-grad dorm life in some apartments and that shit was fun!

It is such a change-up from what I was used to hearing growing up, you go to college and comes marriage, kids and a mortgage. I am finding that it is not as common of a lifestyle as it used to be decades ago.

Obviously the guys on here who are family oriented and older will complain about it but I think that the younger guys who are more set on living it up might luck into some gold here, I know I did.

What I think this trend does is it allows guys to rack up a notch count at an older age while not being as harshly judged as they would have been decades ago.

Add in social media and the fact that society has gone lax on marriage and traditional family, it is a great opportunity for a guy who is serious about the playboy lifestyle to actually pursue it. I think that decades ago, it would have been a lot tougher for a guy who is 35 to sleep around with randoms because people were more conservative then, he would have been judged and even ostracized. Now I think that if a guy has a high enough value or SMV, he can potentially live that lifestyle past the age of 30 and not be as ostracized for it.

In some way, I think we are heading towards a society that strictly resembles a high school social structure.

High value men and hot girls will be the cool kids of the adult world.

Everyone in the middle will be rushing to find someone to marry.

The social outcasts and low value people will live a life of isolation.

[godzilla]

Everyone seems to be looking for a new angle on how to meet women. But the old ways are still working just fine though. As more and more people use IG for a game, fewer and fewer people use more traditional ways and the traditional ways start becoming more effective.

Personally, I enjoy keeping to myself but I won't deny the value of a good social media account. If we are comparing it to back in the day, it's really no different then the dude in high school who had a cool car or knew how to buy everyone booze. Everyone is always trying to be the coolest baddest motherfucker here. Social media just takes this to a whole new level and allows you to share your "dope ride" with everyone.

[Boosh]

Thanks for the advice and words noir. By way of more information, I've deleted my insta on my phone last week. I haven't had Facebook on my phone for over three years. Just messenger.. tinder is next. Tinder nowadays for me is someone invites me somewhere and I just give them shit for being fuck girls - paraphrasing. I normally link trap music and tell them to bag it up. OK THAT ONE TIME. But yeah tinder is getting deleted next.

[Kieran]

(09-09-2018 08:53 PM)godzilla Wrote:  

Everyone seems to be looking for a new angle on how to meet women. But the old ways are still working just fine though.

This is exactly where I am on it. I'm sure IG is effective, but I'm happy with my results already from cold approach in nightlife and social circle.

[Donfitz007]

Game has changed a bit but there’s a core element that’ll never change. Women like an attractive guy. Throw in the bad boy element , maybe project a fun and wealthy lifestyle and you have a winning strategy.

The best advice is to get into the best shape of your life. It seems women hate gym bros, so if you take your body on IG, post as if you’re a traveling model or an artist. Almost any hobby looks cool and interesting with perfect lighting. Post a couple memes, find cool spots around town to post pictures (if you don’t have the funds to travel) and you’ll have great success online. I haven’t gotten to the point yet but when I was addicted to social media, i noticed patterns about the guys who had it and the guys who HAD IT. Women will start contacting you. Learn your angles, learn your colors, learn your style and take advantage.


I think the oasis, paradise, theory is the best theory for women nowadays. Seems most women know they’re going to sooner or later be
Unfaithful. So the best method to work with women is the don’t ask don’t tell method. keep or build your harem, give her a sanctuary from the harshness of life, and never worry what she does outside of you. Absence is key, but more importantly is keeping her on her toes. Randomly Take her out, maybe buy her s gift or two, sometimes fuck her passionately, sometimes rough. Make her wonder what’s next.

[Hypno]

Self improvement and gym stuff is great, but you don't have to be perfect to have more success.

Actually getting out there and doing something, and innergame and confidence, count for more.