[Rutting Elephant]

(03-24-2014 08:57 AM)BDawg Wrote:  

Not for lying, OP.

"Proponents of Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) claim that certain eye-movements are reliable indicators of lying. According to this notion, a person looking up to their right suggests a lie whereas looking up to their left is indicative of truth telling. Despite widespread belief in this claim, no previous research has examined its validity. "

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ado...ne.0040259

caught this just today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/25/scienc...ml?hp&_r=3
"One technique that has been taught to law-enforcement officers is to watch the upward eye movements of people as they talk. This is based on a theory from believers in “neuro-linguistic programming” that people tend to glance upward to their right when lying, and upward to the left when telling the truth.
But this theory didn’t hold up when it was tested by a team of British and North American psychologists. They found no pattern in the upward eye movements of liars and truth tellers, whether they were observed in the laboratory or during real-life news conferences. The researchers also found that people who were trained to look for these eye movements did not do any better than a control group at detecting liars."

What's funnier than the NLP cult failure (not surprising) is that airport security scrubs are being taught it, at someone's expense.

[DarkKing]

So if Derren Brown doesn't use NLP, what does he use?

[cardguy]

The same methods as any standard magician.

Although to be fair - he is one of the best magicians in the world. So - he does have some very clever ideas - such that even other magicians can get fooled by him.

[DarkKing]

What did he do here? I assumed part of the answer here was NLP.

[cardguy]

The clip isn't working.

But I did see it when it was first broadcast about 13 years ago.

If you refer to earlier in the thread - I talk about how most TV tricks that are really impressive make use of pre-show work. So - that tends to be the direction I think along when dealing with tricks like this.

It is all laid out in this post:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-33889-...#pid674151

As for Derren Brown. He came out as being gay a few years ago. So - he is lying from the very beginning of that clip - when he talks about using his 'powers' to pick up women.

[cardguy]

I have hijacked this thread a little to promote my interest in magic.

Anyway - hopefully some of you others find my insights to be of interest.

Here is a nice video I just came across. It is of Orson Welles discussing his first teacher in magic - who happened to be Harry Houdini.

Welles goes on to explain an amazing trick that Houdini did for the Tsar of Russia that involved the ringing of the bells in the Kremlin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaooTLg2k-M#t=236

[Rudeman]

I accidentally dropped some NLP / covert hypnosis in my online game but plan on re-using it.

My standard online copy/pasta is to recount the fun stuff I did the past weekend/ plans for near future and ask the girl what she did (it builds value and social proof plus get me girls who would be fun to hang out with).

One line in there was about a new upscale bar I want to and I said I had amazing cocktails.

Except I didn't spell it "amazing cocktails", I spelled it "amazing ocktails"

Have you ever met someone, especially a girl, who goes crazy about spelling or grammar errors. The reason is because the incorrect usage gets stuck in their head and begs for correction.

The correction in this case...?

Cock.

Is that alone going to get me laid, or even a girls # ? No. But there are opportunities to be doing little things like that all the time which help put HER frame as something sexual.

[EDantes]

I've read a bit about it - it seems similar to subliminal messaging.

My personal opinion is that it won't work unless the person already has an interest in whatever you're "selling".

For example, many commercials use something of a similar style; the Geico commercials which play a funny skit followed by the word "Geico" in order to associate the funny memory with the brand name, or vice versa.

Even then, unless a person already has an interest in buying car insurance, it's not going to magically "make" them go out and buy it. If they were in the market for car insurance then it might help the "Geico" brand name spring to their memory.

[WestIndianArchie]

Consider that stolen Rudeman.

WIA

[GreyFFM]

I think nlp has value but a low payoff ratio compared to the time investment you have to make to be good.

years ago i read the Ross Jefferies stuff (not really nlp per se). it was not worth it from a game perspective but he is an interesting story teller and he would say things to spike emotions, both positive and negative. to the lizard brain, that makes you interesting, and jeffereis' works has a ton of it.

a book I am reading now is Pre-Suasion by Robert Cialdini. He is known for his book Influence. I'm only on chapter 3 but this seems to be a better book and has some more powerful things than NLP. Its also a little more practical/specific/anecdotal than Influlence. The book just came out so its still about $20 new but I think learning these techniques will have more effect for less time investment than NLP. The NLP stuff works, but at the margins and subtely. Some of these things in Pre-Suasion are a lot more powerful

[debeguiled]

As far as pick-up goes, when I first read about this stuff, it was being promoted by Ross Jeffries, and I think it was on a Rolling Stone article. This was before the internet was popular.

And when I read about it, my intuition was, well, maybe it is not the NLP that is seducing the girl. Maybe it is the fact that having a system like NLP on your mind while talking to a girl is giving dudes a green light to behave in a seductive way.

So they aren't being seduced by your tricky little verbal constructions. They are being seduced by the fact that for the first time in your life, you are being actively seductive and mysterious, instead of pedestrian and literal, and they are responding to that overall vibe.

I am not claiming to be a master player or anything. This was just my primary intuitive response to the concept of sneaking little verbal sexual expressions into a conversation.

More experienced players can for sure explicate this better than I.

[blck]

This thread is great, really, it make the NERD in my head want to participate in it.

I'll answer the post first: Based on my experience it's worth reading about it and trying to implement some of it but becoming a NLP instructor or guru will harm you.
I've learned some things from NLP reading but, as a lot of people, haven't been able to apply them in my day-to-day life due to information overload.
It make you understand the world you live in better but seeing without being able to act on it is way more frustrative and harmful than suffer things you don't even notice.

Anyway if the motive is to become the next Derren Brown, start taking masterclass and prepare yourself for massive loss of money and social skills (due to being weird most of them time) to become at least some street performer but if you want to influence your own life and how other people react to you you might be on the good track.

[Geek]

NLP define Reality as an event view through your own filters so it is unique because of our past experiences (you already know that is why we regroup ourselves as community).



2 girls will react differently to the same approach but with NLP The reaction won't matter has much because you know that you can make it change by erasing and testing it again on the same person [Reframing].

In what way could this be interesting on a daily basis for any RVFer ? Someone said Approach Anxiety ?

NLP and it's principles:

Quote:

NLP is based on a strong belief in the possibility of change. You will discover that:

*People are not their behaviour. When you accept the person, you are free to change behaviour
*People already possess all the resources they need to succeed and achieve their desired outcomes - they just need to learn how to unlock them.
*The meaning of your communication is found in the response you get. When you learn how to communicate better, the world will respond to you better than ever before.
*You are in charge of your mind - and therefore your life.
*When things get difficult, remember: there is never failure, only feedback.

Based on those principles Bandler and Grinder made tools to change how to communicate in the purpose of make one change his ideas and/or behaviors:

Anchoring ==> Implants a sensation into the mind to act as a trigger.
Pattern Interruption ==> Used to leave unconscious messages in the mind.
Swish ==> Replaces or changes the feelings associated with a condition.
Loop Break ==> Controls feelings, behaviours or reactions to certain conditions.
Framing ==> Increases or decreases emotional response to memories.
NLP Meta Model ==> Helps clarify communication.
Presuppositions ==> Makes an unconscious suggestion
Mirroring ==> Builds rapport and trust

Example:
So you approach and get rejected then you reframe the "rejection" as a misunderstanding from the other part, to prove your goodness you invite the girl to the next starbuck "just for some coffee". The convo start and then you start asking question (36), lead her emotions [Presuppositions] to make her see you as someone she will like or even love (she can't say no) [anchoring] if any step here fail you reframe and try again.

With only this you can go try on the world your news set of skills, no need to learn more and you should've understood than trying to become some Derren Brown look alike won't do you anygood but using it as Trump, Tony Robbins or others did will get you far ahead.

NLP is only a screwdriver in your toolbox:

DamienCasanova posted a link to the blog of Scott Adams yesterday and this is some mind blowing stuff for real, not for NLP per se but because NLP is just a part of a bigger set of tools.

(09-23-2016 10:42 AM)DamienCasanova Wrote:  

Saw this on the Scott Adams Blog,
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/15081666699...s-promised
[...]

Scott Adams Wrote:

About a year ago I told you that Donald Trump would change far more than politics. I predicted that he would change your understanding of the human condition and your role in reality.
[...]
But first I will describe the mental framework you need to accept this new vision of reality. The framework goes like this:

1. Smart, well-informed people disagree on nearly all major issues. So being smart and well-informed doesn’t help you grasp reality as much as you would hope. If it did, all of the smart, well-informed people would agree. They don’t.

2. Trump says lots of things that don’t pass the fact-checkers’ tests. His supporters don’t care because facts don’t influence decisions. Humans decide first, then rationalize their irrational choices with cherry-picked data. You see this all the time with the people who disagree with your brilliance. Just remember that they see the same irrationality in you that you see in them.

[Go read the article for the points 3 to 7]

8. Many of you have started reading from my Persuasion Reading List, and by now you understand that humans are not rational creatures. We are creatures who believe we are rational.

Now you are ready.

Read this to forever alter your understanding of reality

Welcome to the third dimension. The Master Persuader has been waiting for you.

So what is said here is that with the keys to a good mental framework you could possibly foresee things years ahead and that you can and will rationalize after the weirdest decision you took.

Let's look at the reading list, that's where the gold pot lies...

Quote:

Chapter 1 - Things You Can Stop Believing
The first chapter is designed to make you skeptical about your ability to comprehend reality. If you are already a hardcore skeptic, you can skip this chapter.

Chapter 2 - Stretching your Imagination
These books are selected to open your mind for what follows. If you have experience with LSD or mushrooms, you might not need this chapter. (Yes, I am serious.)

Chapter 3 - The Moist Robot Hypothesis
The Moist Robot Hypothesis first appears in my book that is listed below. The idea is that humans are biological machines, subject to cause and effect. According to this view, free will is an illusion and humans can be programmed once you understand our user interface.

With this chapter I ease you into the notion that humans are mindless robots by showing you how we are influenced by design, habit, emotion, food, and words. Until you accept the Moist Robot view of the world it will be hard to use your tools of persuasion effectively because you will doubt your own effectiveness and people will detect your doubt. Confidence is an important part of the process of influence.

Chapter 4 - Active Persuasion
This chapter gets into the details of how to influence people. My opinion is that you will be less effective with these tools if you do not have a full understanding of our moist robot nature introduced above. The only book on this list that I have read is the Gerry Spence book. And I have taken the Dale Carnegie course in person. But based on reviews, the other books on this list will give you some useful tips on persuasion that I have acquired from a variety of other sources over my life.

Connecting Some Dots Just for Fun…

Now let me connect some dots.

Milton Erickson influenced Pierre Clement, who taught my hypnosis instructor, who taught me.

And…

Milton Erickson influenced Bandler and Grinder, who developed NLP, which influenced Tony Robbins (a self-help hypnotist). Tony Robbins (probably) influenced Donald Trump, by association. They worked together on at least one project.

When I listen to Donald Trump, I detect all of his influences back to Erickson. If you make it through this reading list, you might hear it too. I don’t know if Donald Trump would make a good president, but he is the best persuader I have ever seen. On a scale from 1 to 10, if Steve Jobs was a 10, Trump is a 15.

You know how the media has made fun of Trump’s 4th-grade-level speech patterns?

The joke’s on them.

He does it intentionally.

Because it works.

So to speak this guy just gave, for anyone who want to learn it, the source code of the human brain/psyche and how to overwrite it and we've got someone in the presidential race who directly study and work with people who have the knowledge to influence others life directly as others candidate who got themselves the so-called best communication consultants of the USA. At this point I'm not even interested to know what the outcome, for me TRUMP ALREADY WON even if he lose the race.

You can dive deep into NLP but it'll make you weird or you can make it on of your numerous skills...



[/Geek]

[El Padrone]

Anyone here have thoughts on the October Man Sequence?

[JackinMelbourne]

I don't know if it's the bullshit radar or people's poor skills at it, but every time someone has tried NLP on me, it either put me off interacting with them, filled me with disgust or simply made me switch into troll mode to have a bit of fun and lead them on while setting them up for fails.

It's worse when you know the person and all of a sudden they slip up with sloppy technique, trying to get you to invest in something which benefits them at your expense (time/money/energy/resources).

So long story short, you'd need to be very good or very genuine with what you're using it for.

[debeguiled]

(08-28-2018 05:55 AM)JackinMelbourne Wrote:  

I don't know if it's the bullshit radar or people's poor skills at it, but every time someone has tried NLP on me, it either put me off interacting with them, filled me with disgust or simply made me switch into troll mode to have a bit of fun and lead them on while setting them up for fails.

It's worse when you know the person and all of a sudden they slip up with sloppy technique, trying to get you to invest in something which benefits them at your expense (time/money/energy/resources).

So long story short, you'd need to be very good or very genuine with what you're using it for.

[blck]

Using routine (instead of understanding concepts) is like trying to do magic tricks to people who don't want to participate, they see you coming from a mile away.
That's why beginner PUAs radiate weird vibes with OMS or any stack.
NLP is not worth learning, hypnosis is way better and street hypnosis is the shit to make people have a good time, if you really want to learn real mental tricks study magic, you won't be disappointed I guarantee it.

[El Padrone]

^ Ive been reliably informed(not personally) by a "practitioner" that hypnosis is bullshit.

[blck]

(08-28-2018 07:23 PM)El Padrone Wrote:  

^ Ive been reliably informed(not personally) by a "practitioner" that hypnosis is bullshit.

Can you expand on this ?

[Hypno]

(08-28-2018 06:10 PM)blck Wrote:  

Using routine (instead of understanding concepts) is like trying to do magic tricks to people who don't want to participate, they see you coming from a mile away.
That's why beginner PUAs radiate weird vibes with OMS or any stack.
NLP is not worth learning, hypnosis is way better and street hypnosis is the shit to make people have a good time, if you really want to learn real mental tricks study magic, you won't be disappointed I guarantee it.

Its curious that that guy Mystery started as a magician but had no luck so he studied game.

[blck]

Not curious at all as magic is not meant to seduce.
The solely purpose of magic is to trick people reasoning, it can be part of your arsenal but magic tricks won't get you laid if you don't know how to interact with women.

[heavy]

Might as well listen to Banachek. He makes millions using tricks like NLP.

- Unofficial Rogan liaison

[debeguiled]

(08-29-2018 07:50 AM)heavy Wrote:  

Might as well listen to Banachek. He makes millions using tricks like NLP.

- Unofficial Rogan liaison

Banachek is a fucking genius. He is a master of misdirection and has some amazing social skills. Other magicians are in awe of him.

There will always be exceptional people. You don't get what Banachek has by reading a pamplet or attending a seminar.