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Kissing at my doorstep but no f-close: was it LMR or true no-go?
#1

Kissing at my doorstep but no f-close: was it LMR or true no-go?

Hey guys,

Wanted to have your thoughts on what could have been my moves for a date I went on yesterday:

Before "the moment"
  • This was date 2. Date 1 ended well with a k-close he week before
  • She is well-dressed with red lipstick. More the shy, intellectual and hard-working type of girl than the party one.
  • We start sitting for a coffee
  • Then I walk her to a cool bar where we can sit next to each other
  • During the walk we hold hands, some kissing, some arm holding
  • We then have drinks. Comfort building by talking about passions, dreams
  • I escalate, kissing more intensily, my hand on her thighs. I qualify her
  • I feel she responds well, never breaking the kiss, she initiates some kino during the kisses
  • However I notice she is not particularly touchy and much is of my initiative
"The moment"
  • I say "let's change place". She goes to the bathroom
  • When she comes back I say, "let's go to my place? 5min walk from here". At this point I do not give any "excuse" or "reason". She starts very lightly pushing back, saying "she has to wake up the next day blabla"
  • She still follows me, I hold her in my arm and kiss her but again I feel she is not super touchy and holding back. I try making some conversation to avoid awkwardness
  • We then arrive at my doorstep. I say "let's enter" she says "no"
  • Then I say "fine". We stay there, I escalate kissing. She responds well, we kiss while holding each other for a quite long time. She starts giving me compliments on my body while she touches it
  • I say "ok let's go up" then another no-go. She says "I know where it will end"
  • I now try giving some reasons to go in my super cool apartment with amazing stuffs but same results
  • After kissing some more, I break up and say bye. She goes home, looking back at me over her shoulder while she goes
  • This was the last week of my stay in the city so not likely I will see her any time soon and she knows it
So here my question to you guys: should I have pulled even more? Like ignoring her IODs and leading her inside? Is it better to make up some excuses to go up? (paintings, good whiskey whatever) Or was it a true no-go and not a LMR?
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#2

Kissing at my doorstep but no f-close: was it LMR or true no-go?

...are you meeting her for a 3rd date?
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#3

Kissing at my doorstep but no f-close: was it LMR or true no-go?

You should always make an excuse for her to come in unless it is very clear at the venue that she is down to fuck (rubbing your cock, asking how close you live, or telling you verbatim "I want you to fuck me" etc). Doing it when you're on the doorstep won't help, you should plant the seed earlier in the night.

That being said, she might've not been down either way. Does she know that you won't be around much in the future? If so, she could've not wanted to fuck knowing that it won't really lead anywhere, and you didn't get her excited enough that a one-night stand was worth it.
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#4

Kissing at my doorstep but no f-close: was it LMR or true no-go?

Nope no 3rd date as I am out of town.

Makes sense for the excuse. How do you usually plant the seed; you refer to a cool stuff in your apartment (like wine or TV) and come back to it occasionally?
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#5

Kissing at my doorstep but no f-close: was it LMR or true no-go?

Quote: (08-19-2018 11:19 AM)Richard.O Wrote:  

[*]We then arrive at my doorstep. I say "let's enter" she says "no"
[*]Then I say "fine". We stay there, I escalate kissing. She responds well, we kiss while holding each other for a quite long time. She starts giving me compliments on my body while she touches it
[*]I say "ok let's go up" then another no-go. She says "I know where it will end"
[*]I now try giving some reasons to go in my super cool apartment with amazing stuffs but same results
[*]After kissing some more, I break up and say bye. She goes home, looking back at me over her shoulder while she goes

Reminds me of this girl I used to take out on dates in high school, I feel you man.

Quote: (08-19-2018 01:02 PM)RDF Wrote:  

You should always make an excuse for her to come in unless it is very clear at the venue that she is down to fuck

Yeah always, seed that shit. My go to (depending on the girls age) is retro video games. You bring up Mario Kart 64, you're guaranteed to get some heads turning. Say you're the undefeated Mario Kart king and see how she reacts, most times you'll bring out some competitive fun. From there it's a smooth transition to the sex location.

That's just one example, but be chill about it / put some thought into your excuse.

Quote: (08-19-2018 01:02 PM)RDF Wrote:  

Does she know that you won't be around much in the future?

I would have really played this out, naturally spiking those emotions in the frame of "I'm not sure when we'll see each other again". And rationalize on an emotional level if she's giving you LMR inside your place: "It's our last chance tonight, we'll never know if it was meant to be if we don't do this".
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#6

Kissing at my doorstep but no f-close: was it LMR or true no-go?

You did a good job but you made some typical newbie mistakes. The problem was two fold;

1. You released the sexual tension by kissing. Bad move. Most guys kiss a girl to determine if she "likes" him. Guys with game can determine that by reading behavior and body language.

2. You planted the "were going to fuck" seed into her head too soon. That's why she started to freeze up when you said you were going back to your place. Consciously she didn't want to get fucked. Unconsciously she did (kissing, hand holding).

So to fix this;

-Never kiss until you can close. Meaning if you don't have privacy to fuck right there, don't kiss.

-Super wishy-washy. "Let's go to my place?" Seems like a question. That's why you got a logical response back (I have to work tomorrow). Again when you get to your place "let's enter", super wishy-washy. You have to lead them where you want to go. They sure as shit won't talk themselves into it but you had already blown it at that point.

If you had done everything exactly the same but no kissing and simply leading her to your apartment with the promise of one quick custom martini before you have to kick her out because you have a big day tomorrow, you would have had it in the bag.
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#7

Kissing at my doorstep but no f-close: was it LMR or true no-go?

Quote: (08-19-2018 04:00 PM)AlwaysTired Wrote:  

I would have really played this out, naturally spiking those emotions in the frame of "I'm not sure when we'll see each other again". And rationalize on an emotional level if she's giving you LMR inside your place: "It's our last chance tonight, we'll never know if it was meant to be if we don't do this".
I tried to bring that up actually (saying "dunno when we're going to see us again"). But little effect...

Quote: (08-19-2018 07:41 PM)tr1cky Wrote:  

-Never kiss until you can close. Meaning if you don't have privacy to fuck right there, don't kiss.

-Super wishy-washy. "Let's go to my place?" Seems like a question. That's why you got a logical response back (I have to work tomorrow). Again when you get to your place "let's enter", super wishy-washy. You have to lead them where you want to go. They sure as shit won't talk themselves into it but you had already blown it at that point.
Super interesting tr1cky. I get the second part, where I should have said sth like "let's take this nightcap at my place", lead her to it with no question and bam.
However for the first part, how do you escalate without kissing?
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#8

Kissing at my doorstep but no f-close: was it LMR or true no-go?

Kissing doesn't make a woman interested in you ,it's more of a metric for her attraction. That's why most guys tounge down girls at the clubs, to see if it's "on".

While at the bar you can still relate to the girl in a sexualized way to let her know "okay, this guy fucks" without kissing and breaking all the sexual tension and raising the anti slut defense.

You can make out with a chick at a bar all night, get her phone number and the next morning she will wake up and go OMG I was such a slut last night and ignore your ass cus she's a "classy lady".

Back to your scenario, a chick that doesn't want to get fucked isn't going to walk to a guys apartment (even if she doesn't enter). She wanted to fuck you, and it wasn't because of the kissing. It was everything else. The laughter, the glances, and light touches, getting close on the dance floor, the sexual innuendo.

drop the kissing, invite her to your place with a good excuse "I make the best martini ever, I'll show you, come." If she presses what you're going to do there, say "I'm going to make you the drink, maybe kiss you a little, then I got to kick you out I have church tomorrow, come it'll be fun"

When you get to your door, just walk up! Don't ask if she wants to come in either lol.

Once you're upstairs don't jump on the chick right away BUT you're going to want to kiss them within 5--7 minutes just to show them you aren't scared and want to fuck. But a quick light kiss and back off first.

I like to kiss real quick, tease "is that the best you got? Let's try again" kiss a little more intensely but break it off first again. Then move away from the chick, give her space. Chat for another couple minutes, kiss again, pull back. Chat more. Then tour of the bedroom, get her in the bed and tease the fuck out of her til she's begging for it. Good luck.
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#9

Kissing at my doorstep but no f-close: was it LMR or true no-go?

Thanks for the good advice man; now thinking about it it’s true I had experiences when no/few kissing fed the tension. Gotta use more now
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#10

Kissing at my doorstep but no f-close: was it LMR or true no-go?

Quote: (08-19-2018 11:19 AM)Richard.O Wrote:  

Hey guys,

Wanted to have your thoughts on what could have been my moves for a date I went on yesterday:

Before "the moment"
  • This was date 2. Date 1 ended well with a k-close he week before
  • She is well-dressed with red lipstick. More the shy, intellectual and hard-working type of girl than the party one.
  • We start sitting for a coffee
  • Then I walk her to a cool bar where we can sit next to each other
  • During the walk we hold hands, some kissing, some arm holding
  • We then have drinks. Comfort building by talking about passions, dreams
  • I escalate, kissing more intensily, my hand on her thighs. I qualify her
  • I feel she responds well, never breaking the kiss, she initiates some kino during the kisses
  • However I notice she is not particularly touchy and much is of my initiative
"The moment"
  • I say "let's change place". She goes to the bathroom
  • When she comes back I say, "let's go to my place? 5min walk from here". At this point I do not give any "excuse" or "reason". She starts very lightly pushing back, saying "she has to wake up the next day blabla"
  • She still follows me, I hold her in my arm and kiss her but again I feel she is not super touchy and holding back. I try making some conversation to avoid awkwardness
  • We then arrive at my doorstep. I say "let's enter" she says "no"
  • Then I say "fine". We stay there, I escalate kissing. She responds well, we kiss while holding each other for a quite long time. She starts giving me compliments on my body while she touches it
  • I say "ok let's go up" then another no-go. She says "I know where it will end"
  • I now try giving some reasons to go in my super cool apartment with amazing stuffs but same results
  • After kissing some more, I break up and say bye. She goes home, looking back at me over her shoulder while she goes
  • This was the last week of my stay in the city so not likely I will see her any time soon and she knows it
So here my question to you guys: should I have pulled even more? Like ignoring her IODs and leading her inside? Is it better to make up some excuses to go up? (paintings, good whiskey whatever) Or was it a true no-go and not a LMR?

I disagree with some of these guys advice on here. I think they focus too much on subconscious signs waiting for the woman to in a sense give you permission on what to do next. If you want to fuck go ahead and tell her. The next time she hits you up saying lets go out, tell her to come to your place for a drink

if she protests tell her you are tired of going on food excursions and wine tasting, she knows what you want and its time for her to stop playing games
many guys on here will say that's too straight forward and it might scare her off, but I beg to differ. It seems like on these dates you are making a bunch of small talk, meaningless banter waiting for her to give you cues when you need to create your own, you need to dictate the direction you are going in

If she really does like you, then she's trying to make you a boyfriend. That's a bad thing because she is essentially saying you have to show her all the best qualities about you, and maybe you get some ass
Basically trading your entire existence for pussy.

You need to tell her either over the phone or on the next date that she thinks this is good because you guys are getting to know each other but in reality she's getting to know YOU bt all she's doing is making you wait for pussy. tell her you like her but sex cant be off the table if she wants to continue this any longer

My experience is when you usually hold women's feet to the fire they will succumb to your wishes, and if not then you wont be wasting your time any more
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#11

Kissing at my doorstep but no f-close: was it LMR or true no-go?

That’s an interesting point you make. Actually because I also read/ tried the 2 types of approach (making up an excuse vs being straightforward) I went this time for the “no-excuse” version, even if I did not go 100% straight.
Maybe both approaches work but are a matter of calibration. For a non-wild shy girl she will prefer an excuse, reassuring and keeping her consistent.
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#12

Kissing at my doorstep but no f-close: was it LMR or true no-go?

Quote: (08-21-2018 10:04 PM)Mr_furly Wrote:  

I disagree with some of these guys advice on here. I think they focus too much on subconscious signs waiting for the woman to in a sense give you permission on what to do next. If you want to fuck go ahead and tell her.

I disagree with 2 points. You don't want to tell her what's going to happen. Girls are not logical, they're emotional therefor you want to play this differently. Girls like it when sex is something that "just happened" you don't want to plan it to happen, let it come naturally. You would want to spike the emotion in her and then lead her, plant the seed early on during the night, and spike her excitement. She knows you ultimately want to have sex with her, so don't tell her and kill the sexual tension between the two of you. You don't need verbal consent if you're having a good time together. It reeks of insecurity having to ask first. You're the man, you're in charge. Dominate the situation.

Quote: (08-21-2018 10:04 PM)Mr_furly Wrote:  

if she protests tell her you are tired of going on food excursions and wine tasting, she knows what you want and its time for her to stop playing games
many guys on here will say that's too straight forward and it might scare her off, but I beg to differ. It seems like on these dates you are making a bunch of small talk, meaningless banter waiting for her to give you cues when you need to create your own, you need to dictate the direction you are going in

It's not about scaring the cat away, it's about showing her you have an abundance mentality. When you show signs of impatience she will sense the insecurity, and girls can smell insecurity from miles away. You need to drop the scarcity mentality and be ready to game other girls on the side. If she knows you have other options she will stop playing games with you, but if you go the route of asking her consent for sex she'll know it's the only thing you're there for and it might trigger her ASD, and she will let you wait even longer.

Keep it light and fun, don't get mad when she shit tests you and denies you sex at first. Tease her, make fun of her, act like it's no big deal. You'll just need to be a bit patient and calibrate your game from there if you think she's worth it. If not, move on. Plenty of girls out there ready to get fucked. But if you can maintain a strong frame and apply the advice given by tr1cky, you will fuck her by the next date 100% guaranteed.
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#13

Kissing at my doorstep but no f-close: was it LMR or true no-go?

Delete
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#14

Kissing at my doorstep but no f-close: was it LMR or true no-go?

Quote: (08-22-2018 07:03 AM)firat113 Wrote:  

Quote: (08-21-2018 10:04 PM)Mr_furly Wrote:  

I disagree with some of these guys advice on here. I think they focus too much on subconscious signs waiting for the woman to in a sense give you permission on what to do next. If you want to fuck go ahead and tell her.

I disagree with 2 points. You don't want to tell her what's going to happen. Girls are not logical, they're emotional therefor you want to play this differently. Girls like it when sex is something that "just happened" you don't want to plan it to happen, let it come naturally. You would want to spike the emotion in her and then lead her, plant the seed early on during the night, and spike her excitement. She knows you ultimately want to have sex with her, so don't tell her and kill the sexual tension between the two of you. You don't need verbal consent if you're having a good time together. It reeks of insecurity having to ask first. You're the man, you're in charge. Dominate the situation.

Quote: (08-21-2018 10:04 PM)Mr_furly Wrote:  

if she protests tell her you are tired of going on food excursions and wine tasting, she knows what you want and its time for her to stop playing games
many guys on here will say that's too straight forward and it might scare her off, but I beg to differ. It seems like on these dates you are making a bunch of small talk, meaningless banter waiting for her to give you cues when you need to create your own, you need to dictate the direction you are going in

It's not about scaring the cat away, it's about showing her you have an abundance mentality. When you show signs of impatience she will sense the insecurity, and girls can smell insecurity from miles away. You need to drop the scarcity mentality and be ready to game other girls on the side. If she knows you have other options she will stop playing games with you, but if you go the route of asking her consent for sex she'll know it's the only thing you're there for and it might trigger her ASD, and she will let you wait even longer.

Keep it light and fun, don't get mad when she shit tests you and denies you sex at first. Tease her, make fun of her, act like it's no big deal. You'll just need to be a bit patient and calibrate your game from there if you think she's worth it. If not, move on. Plenty of girls out there ready to get fucked. But if you can maintain a strong frame and apply the advice given by tr1cky, you will fuck her by the next date 100% guaranteed.

When is it going to come naturally though? on the 10th date? 20th? I can see if he only hung out with her once but she is clearly making him "wait" for sex.

Who's having a good time? Seems like he's just waiting until he can get in her pants, only one having a good time is her
And I don't mean ask permission for sex, I mean telling her "look going out on dates maybe fun for you but its not for me if there's no pussy involved".

Disagree with the last part here. What is so abundant about going on date after date with this broad and your reward is a few kisses?

Because if what he's saying is true, and there is real chemistry there but she's trying to show him she's a "good girl" and she's not "easy" then she wont give up the pussy until she basically feels he's fallen for her. She's trying to trap this dude in a relationship. she's vetting him right now to see if she really likes him and what will happen is when they finally do fuck he'll have some attachment and he cant just walk away. Now she has all the power.

Even if he does really like this girl he needs to fuck her now to take her leverage away so if she really wants him in her life she'll have to qualify herself. Right now she's got him doing a circus act
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#15

Kissing at my doorstep but no f-close: was it LMR or true no-go?

She is a three date Kate, and you pulled up one date short of the bang.
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#16

Kissing at my doorstep but no f-close: was it LMR or true no-go?

Quote: (08-22-2018 01:20 PM)Mr_furly Wrote:  

And I don't mean ask permission for sex, I mean telling her "look going out on dates maybe fun for you but its not for me if there's no pussy involved".

This line is so bad it could mess up a rock solid multi year relationship.

You probably shouldn't be giving out too much advice with anti game lines like this.

You can say the same thing in a much less socially retarded way.

That's if you even feel the need to communicate this verbally, women aren't stupid they can figure this out from your actions and non verbal communication.

"Especially Roosh offers really good perspectives. But like MW said, at the end of the day, is he one of us?"

- Reciproke, posted on the Roosh V Forum.
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