[don_quixote]

There's much said in seduction communities about the importance of frame.

No doubt, frame is very important in showing women that you're in control of your own life and (to some extent) environment.

But how do we balance this out with agreeableness?

Some PUAs talk about how important it is to be warm and friendly so as to give the woman a feeling that you are attainable.

How to encapsulate both at once? Or is it a case of trying to guess what kind of woman she is, and calibrating the amount of frame control vs agreement that you give her?

[KiwiTheGermanShepherd]

(08-17-2018 12:00 AM)don_quixote Wrote:  

There's much said in seduction communities about the importance of frame.

No doubt, frame is very important in showing women that you're in control of your own life and (to some extent) environment.

But how do we balance this out with agreeableness?

Some PUAs talk about how important it is to be warm and friendly so as to give the woman a feeling that you are attainable.

How to encapsulate both at once? Or is it a case of trying to guess what kind of woman she is, and calibrating the amount of frame control vs agreement that you give her?

Hi Don,

I think it is important to agree to disagree with these people. Obviously its important not to just agree with everything the other person is saying, but to also share your viewpoint on the situation or topic at hand as well.....

[don_quixote]

Thanks man. I do share my viewpoint but it seems my natural 'laid backness' is a repellent to some chicks, especially high SMV ones.

Some girls assume a guy who is not actively a dick is thus beta, that there is no middle ground between the two.

I might need to calibrate better? Since when I talk to women I don't even really do a lot of game or routines. And I talk to say HB9 the same way as I would talk to HB7.

What do you do with the hotter ones? Do you act the same or try to be a douche as she would expect from a high SMV male?

[Cobra]

Can you newbies search the forum first and post in existing threads on the subject?

Are you guys retarded?

These just make you look like attention seekers from day one.

I wish we could retitle all these newb threads "Look at me, I'm here."

[don_quixote]

I did actually. But there was nothing relating to this particular subject, i.e. how to balance frame with attainability.

I can assure you 100% that I'm not seeking attention.

[Cobra]

(08-17-2018 08:56 AM)don_quixote Wrote:  

I did actually. But there was nothing relating to this particular subject, i.e. how to balance frame with attainability.

I can assure you 100% that I'm not seeking attention.

I hope you're kidding!

   

Again, please make some effort to use the search function. There are now a thousand frame threads.

[don_quixote]

Thanks, but I searched "frame attainability" and "frame comfort", none of the threads gave anything insightful.. because they are written about frame in general.

[Cobra]

(08-17-2018 06:04 PM)don_quixote Wrote:  

Thanks, but I searched "frame attainability" and "frame comfort", none of the threads gave anything insightful.. because they are written about frame in general.

You're missing the point entirely and I'm not sure if

The title of the thread can be general but the underlying posts are meant to be specific. These specific posts should be contained in those threads rather than scattered all over the forum as whole separate topics. This scattering not only decreases the value of the threads but the ignorance of this basic etiquette also decreases the value of the topics themselves.

Please tell me you understand this. If not there will be a decrease in mine and other members' desires to engage wirh newbies that can't understand fundamentals.

I'm just hoping you get this

[don_quixote]

I checked the threads, and none were specifically discussing the balance between frame and attainability/comfort.

I do understand of course. There was never an intention to frustrate yourself or any other members of the forum. But if it's the case then I would extend an apology. As a newbie I'll be happy to admit I'm wrong if anyone can produce evidence that this topic has already been discussed in the past.

If not, then I would like to start a discussion around calibrating frames as (at least in my experience) controlling the frame is not a 'one size fits all' situation.

[Cobra]

Dude. The discussion is absolutely fine. No one is restricting you. Just suggesting you should have done it in an existing thread regarding frame instead of starting a new thread.

My point is around forum etiquette rather than your specific discussion.

The reason I keep coming back after explaining this 3 times now is that this is happening frequently. When I want to research a subject, the information is scattered around 5 to 10 threads. About 8 of those are started by newbies who think they're discussing something brand new.

Stay a while, read what's there already, post in THOSE threads if the "subject" is there, not necessarily the specifnc topic in the subject. Perfectly fine to start your own personal self-improvement thread. Meet other members etc. before starting an entire new thread in the Game section of all places.

I guess another option is to stay in the Newbie section as many newbies start threads to ask about a specific situation. I would rather newbies all ask these in some type of newbie lounge but people don't seem to mind the current practice.

Are we on the same page now? Otherwise we may have to retitle this into a thread starting etiquette thread.

[don_quixote]

Got it, thanks!

[Jefferson]

Well done.

[AlwaysTired]

Can anyone tell me how to seduce a lady

[Mr_furly]

(08-17-2018 12:00 AM)don_quixote Wrote:  

There's much said in seduction communities about the importance of frame.

No doubt, frame is very important in showing women that you're in control of your own life and (to some extent) environment.

But how do we balance this out with agreeableness?

Some PUAs talk about how important it is to be warm and friendly so as to give the woman a feeling that you are attainable.

How to encapsulate both at once? Or is it a case of trying to guess what kind of woman she is, and calibrating the amount of frame control vs agreement that you give her?

"agreeableness" is a vaginal term. Its one of the reasons they say women don't get paid as much as men in the work place.
agreeable means you are inclined to agree with someone because subconsciously you want to just get along and don't want to offend anyone
To me it seems you are trying to merge being a "nice guy" with having frame and you are using some nonsense you heard a PUA say to justify it

Having frame doesn't mean pretending to be cold, being a hard ass. It means having confidence, self esteem and not letting women jerk you around with their emotions no matter what they throw at you

If you have frame you don't need to worry about when to be "warm" and "friendly" you will just be yourself and take whatever comes with it

[don_quixote]

(08-22-2018 02:24 PM)Mr_furly Wrote:  

"agreeableness" is a vaginal term. Its one of the reasons they say women don't get paid as much as men in the work place.
agreeable means you are inclined to agree with someone because subconsciously you want to just get along and don't want to offend anyone
To me it seems you are trying to merge being a "nice guy" with having frame and you are using some nonsense you heard a PUA say to justify it

Having frame doesn't mean pretending to be cold, being a hard ass. It means having confidence, self esteem and not letting women jerk you around with their emotions no matter what they throw at you

If you have frame you don't need to worry about when to be "warm" and "friendly" you will just be yourself and take whatever comes with it

Well I have attainability issues. Most girls accuse me of being a player and sometimes get really angry. This is even when I'm careful not to overgame. Some describe me as cold or emotionless. So how am I supposed to balance it out, if not to add a bit of 'nice guy' to the mix?

[MajorStyles]

There is always a push-pull in that regard. We have to know when to be stern, and then when to acquiesce. Women do not want a beta male; by the same token, they don't want a piece of stone either. So it takes a shrewd individual to know when (and how) to switch between the two pillars.

I think it's always best to start off with a strong frame. Then as the evening progresses, you can loosen up at times; in particular, during social scenarios that call for a more gregarious persona. It's easier to establish a baseline first: i.e. the hard-ass that will spank their ass and put them in line if need be. This sets the foundation for the house they are looking for.

[don_quixote]

Thanks, that seems like good advice.

I guess you need to pick up on subtle cues from the girl, to see what she wants.

My problem with calibration is not in changing my behaviour per se, but I was never raised to be sensitive to others. So her anger might be building but I wouldn't notice until too late.

Seems there's some work to do.

[Rocha]

(08-22-2018 05:13 PM)don_quixote Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 02:24 PM)Mr_furly Wrote:  

"agreeableness" is a vaginal term. Its one of the reasons they say women don't get paid as much as men in the work place.
agreeable means you are inclined to agree with someone because subconsciously you want to just get along and don't want to offend anyone
To me it seems you are trying to merge being a "nice guy" with having frame and you are using some nonsense you heard a PUA say to justify it

Having frame doesn't mean pretending to be cold, being a hard ass. It means having confidence, self esteem and not letting women jerk you around with their emotions no matter what they throw at you

If you have frame you don't need to worry about when to be "warm" and "friendly" you will just be yourself and take whatever comes with it

Well I have attainability issues. Most girls accuse me of being a player and sometimes get really angry. This is even when I'm careful not to overgame. Some describe me as cold or emotionless. So how am I supposed to balance it out, if not to add a bit of 'nice guy' to the mix?

One of the bangs of my life I am most proud off, occurred last thursday, a tall hot and lovely local girl of russian origins.

Met her in a bar, then took her and her beta male friend (who is trying to bang her for many years from what I understood...) to a club I have open doors. In the meanwhile we got rid of the guy, then on the side of the dancefloor we started making out, and she says I am playing with her, since I am too calm and cold during the makeout...I say "Yeah??" then proceeded to grab the back of her hair, pulling it down (gently))) then turn her around and breathing heavily on her ears, sliding my mouth through her neck...after 30 minutes she is naked in my couch.

[don_quixote]

Sounds good. 5 mins of alpha equals 5 years of beta, isn't that what they say?

[Mr_furly]

(08-22-2018 05:13 PM)don_quixote Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 02:24 PM)Mr_furly Wrote:  

"agreeableness" is a vaginal term. Its one of the reasons they say women don't get paid as much as men in the work place.
agreeable means you are inclined to agree with someone because subconsciously you want to just get along and don't want to offend anyone
To me it seems you are trying to merge being a "nice guy" with having frame and you are using some nonsense you heard a PUA say to justify it

Having frame doesn't mean pretending to be cold, being a hard ass. It means having confidence, self esteem and not letting women jerk you around with their emotions no matter what they throw at you

If you have frame you don't need to worry about when to be "warm" and "friendly" you will just be yourself and take whatever comes with it

Well I have attainability issues. Most girls accuse me of being a player and sometimes get really angry. This is even when I'm careful not to overgame. Some describe me as cold or emotionless. So how am I supposed to balance it out, if not to add a bit of 'nice guy' to the mix?

Just roll with it. My mindset when I go out with women is "I don't care what she thinks". I only care what I think, so im only doing things to get what I want. Women are fickle, they'll love you for something today, and hate you tomorrow for the same thing. When they get angry and accuse you of being a player use it to your advantage, you have the leverage and they are throwing a hissy fit to "bitch you up"

[don_quixote]

(08-23-2018 03:00 AM)Mr_furly Wrote:  

Just roll with it. My mindset when I go out with women is "I don't care what she thinks". I only care what I think, so im only doing things to get what I want. Women are fickle, they'll love you for something today, and hate you tomorrow for the same thing. When they get angry and accuse you of being a player use it to your advantage, you have the leverage and they are throwing a hissy fit to "bitch you up"

OK thanks I'll take your advice on board. Obviously being super reactive to a girl is not optimal.