[hydrogonian]

Quote:

You are a MYTH SPREADER:

I'm a myth spreader? Why, because I inferred that your favorite drug might not be benign to use? That's a pretty bold comment, cheech. Settle down.

First, how do you know where my experience comes from? I might have more experience than you.

Second, your claim linked to one study, which wasn't even the study itself, but a guardian article.

I gave the sources to research real studies. I'm on these research sites regularly. You need to find actual studies, listed in actual journals, to have any credibility.

Third, if you read in-between the lines in everything that I wrote, you would realize that I know what I'm talking about. Not good enough? Well, list the studies. If you can find studies using either of the two search engines that I listed, then I will respect that.

Sixth, giving advice to take ALA is bad advice to give people that know nothing about it and won't research it. Right here, this tells me that you have a superficial/anecdotal understanding of all of this at best. Why? Because ALA can PERMANENTLY eliminate your bodies ability to benefit from calorie restriction at the genetic level, currently the best and most effective proven method that you naturally have to combat and reverse disease. So, someone goes out and takes your advice, takes ALA once, and permanently changes his gene response to calorie restriction. Good advice.

Dietary lipoic acid supplementation can mimic or block the effect of dietary restriction on life span.

Quote:

Dietary lipoic acid supplementation can mimic or block the effect of dietary restriction on life span.
Merry BJ, Kirk AJ, Goyns MH.
Source

School of Biological Sciences, University of Liverpool, Liverpool L69 7ZB, UK. [email protected]
Abstract

Dietary restriction feeding extends survival in a range of species but a detailed understanding of the underlying mechanism is lacking. There is interest therefore in identifying a more targeted approach to replicate this effect on survival. We report that in rats dietary supplementation with alpha-lipoic acid, has markedly differing effects on lifetime survival depending upon the dietary history of the animal. When animals are switched from DR feeding to ad libitum feeding with a diet supplemented with alpha-lipoic acid, the extended survival characteristic of DR feeding is maintained, even though the animals show accelerated growth. Conversely, switching from ad libitum feeding a diet supplemented with alpha-lipoic acid to DR feeding of the non-supplemented diet, blocks the normal effect of DR to extend survival, even after cessation of lipoic acid supplementation. Unlike the dynamic effect of switching between DR and ad libitum feeding with a non-supplemented diet where the subsequent survival trajectory is determined by the new feeding regime, lipoic acid fixes the survival trajectory to that established by the initial feeding regime. Ad libitum feeding a diet supplemented with lipoic acid can therefore act as mimetic of DR to extend survival.

"Myth Spreading" . ha.. these things can have their place, but I love when users put their favorite feel good substances on pedestals that aren't proven to exist. I've been around the worst of this culture, and I know what it has the potential to do when used too much, as well as having read the actual studies. Trust me, they use pure E in scientific studies. They don't get it from the junkie dealer in the campus dorms.

Rule of thumb: Things that are actually good for you work on the principle of the "rebound effect". That is, you suppress your hormonal / neurochemical response briefly, and your body/mind responds by up-regulating the production of or sensitivity to hormones / neurochemicals.

Examples:
1. Exercise - Primarily anaerobic/anabolic
2. Calorie Restriction (the right way - very difficult)
3. Low Dose Naltrexone - look it up

Suppression / rebound techniques work on the principle of stress/response. You stress the homeostasis of the system and it responds by becoming stronger, healthier, more efficient (more hormonal/neurochemical output). I even believe that being awake and sleeping is a stress / rebound cycle.

The other way to introduce more neuro-chemicals is through some type of stimulation. All drugs that make you feel good work this way, no matter what they are. If they don't feel bad at first, then they are stimulants of some type. Maybe not in the amphetamine class, necessarily, but they work through pushing more active chemical into your brain without it being your bodies natural response to stress to do so. In response, your brain down-regulates its sensitivity and production to hormones and/or neuro-chemicals. If this is what is happening, then its bad for you by definition. All that is left to determine is how bad for you it is. All you are arguing is 'how' bad for you E is. Prior studies, and the experience of many, shows that its really bad. You say that its not really bad. So what. Its bad, and it will take more than a guardian article to prove that it isn't really bad.

That's my opinion and statement. I really don't care to argue it anymore, and will respect the fact that you guys want to continue talking about it. However, I likely won't answer anymore responses directed at me, as I likely won't be coming back to the thread. Seriously, I really don't care what you guys do or don't believe. I know that its fun, 'life-changing', whatever,... like I said, there can be a place for it. Just go easy, especially with frequency.

[oldnemesis]

(10-05-2011 01:32 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

Go ahead and back this up with studies.
Because the studies exist in spades for the opposite position.

I've read about that stuff some time ago, and there was a discussion that there were only few studies, and they all somehow were based either on a very frequent use (like every day for two weeks) or using very large doses (like 10x the typical dose) or both. In one of those studies they actually used meth instead of extasy, and it made a funny story in Science back in 2002.

Quote:

I'll take you on your word, but go ahead and list the studies.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdm...l#neurotox
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_faq.shtml

[Caligula]

OK a lot of anecdotal evidence suggesting occasional, casual use is mostly harmless. I just had a terrible experience that I thought I'd share.

Bad things do happen even with infrequent or small scale use. Background: I'd tried MDMA once before I had some a few days ago. First time was a great experience all around. This time I took a (seemingly) moderate dose, slightly more than the first time around. I'd been drinking too, but nothing crazy. At first it kicked in and it felt good, as expected.

But within about half an hour of it kicking in I was laying about shivering deliriously with an insane headache (worst I've ever had, felt like my head was alternately about to explode and contracting) for what seemed like 2-3 hours, breathing like I'd just run four miles, etc. I was convinced that I was dying and sweated like a pig all night. Good thing I had friends looking after me, bringing me water throughout. Now, four days later I'm still getting intense headaches every few hours and not feeling quite there.

A few others were taking from the same batch, more than I had even, and did not have any problems at all. It may be rare, but I suspect this is what happened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_syndrome

Don't forget it's powerful stuff. I won't be fucking around with anything like it again.

[Brian]

how many did you take?

[Caligula]

(10-13-2011 11:20 AM)Brian Wrote:  

how many did you take?

About one cap of MDMA powder.

[oldnemesis]

(10-12-2011 09:32 PM)Caligula Wrote:  

A few others were taking from the same batch, more than I had even, and did not have any problems at all. It may be rare, but I suspect this is what happened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_syndrome

I don't really understand how the one could take X those days. A lot of those pills now don't even contain MDMA. Check extasydata.

[alecks]

well in the us, the majority of the pills are pure dirt.

europe on the other hand......very good pills if you find the right places/people

[Riker]

Guys, I didn't know where to post this and I didn't want to start a new thread.... but I did coke last night!!!!!! for the first time. My brother got married and threw a huge wedding and him and his girl do coke so at the after party there was like 8 of us and we all did it. It was an awesome experience. Its 12pm right now sunday and I can't go to sleep!

[Riker]

Hey forum,

Just wanted to link to a story I posted about my experience with ecstasy on Christmas Eve.

Much love.

http://www.experienceproject.com/stories...sy/1965498

[Cr33pin]

Awesome storie Riker.

i used pop X like pez, some of the best nights of my life... i swear X brings out like a 6th sense when it comes to women... hard to explain

havent done it in years, got some bad molly an had a panic attack which led to 3 years of panic attacks which sucked balls

[garygroundwork]

if u can get high quality MDMA (ecstasy) there is no better drug. it is the best feeling in the world. its almost like blowing your load for 2 hours straight. get with a hot girl and take ecstasy together and u will have the night of ur life regardless of where you are.

[Riker]

deleted

[RipSaw]

Some of you guys are thinking way too hard about this. Just take it and see what happens. I've went to work as a carpenter on coke, ecstacey, meth... if you can handle your drugs then theres nothing to it. Alcohol is one of the hardest drugs in the world...

[Cr33pin]

(12-28-2011 03:51 AM)garygroundwork Wrote:  

if u can get high quality MDMA (ecstasy) there is no better drug. it is the best feeling in the world. its almost like blowing your load for 2 hours straight. get with a hot girl and take ecstasy together and u will have the night of ur life regardless of where you are.

I was only able to bust a nut one time when i was rolling hard an it was the most intesnse best "O" of my life... after i was comming down i could get hard an bust. but theres a big diffrence from rolling face an doing it an doing it on the way off your roll

[Screwston]

Seen this years ago and found it again. The full documentary that I linked earlier. Not even sure how popular X still is, but I remember how dangerous people said it was 10 years ago. I had fun on it and will have fun on it in the future for special occasions. Would be better if I could get the pure mdma or whatever Molly is supposed to be.

Quote:

ABC News television documentary with Peter Jennings on the history of MDMA (3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine) also known as ecstasy.

It includes a short history of the drug and criticizes the negative health claims made by the U.S. government.

The rise of Ecstasy is a major event in drug history. If current trends continue, 1.8 million Americans will try Ecstasy for the first time in 2004.

Only marijuana will attract more new users. Overwhelming, positive word of mouth has made Ecstasy a nightmare for drug controllers.

On a special edition of 'Primetime Thursday' Peter Jennings tells the epic story of Ecstasy that has never been heard.

[Yeti]

How much does a tab of ecstasy cost now? In North America or Europe.

[The Beast1]

I had some pure MDMA when I was in college. It was synthesized by a hobby chemist. The experience was very calming. All I wanted to do was give everyone hugs. Made the sex last an hour but I couldn't get off.

I had it another time and I became Don Draper. The confidence, swag, etc I had was crazy. I was told from a dealer that a lot of mdma is cut with speed and the "don draper" effect i had was most likely mdma cut with meth. Needless to say, it was one of the most amazing weekends ever.

MDMA makes your heart big. Speed makes you want to take over the world. Confidence in pill form.

[dulst]

I love mdma/ecstasy. It effects everyone differently so if you're gonna do it be mindful of people's advice but listen to your own body first. Some people can drink on it, some people can't. Having a beer or 2 should be fine but pay attention to how you physically respond to it and decide based on that.

I've personally managed to go out clubbing having taken 120ug of acid, a quarter gram of mdma, 2 joints and some beers at the club. I was sick at one point but otherwise felt fine, although obviously if you want to get that fucked you probably won't be getting laid.

Either way taking ecstasy is usually a fun, safe experience. You feel very bonded to the people you're taking it with. My advice would be to continue consuming fluids, but slowly. Dehydration and overhydration are both risks. The best thing you can do to enhance the experience is get some 5-HTP from your local healthfood store.

5-HTP is the amino acid precursor to serotonin. This hormone makes us feel happy and sleepy. E is a stimulant that causes your brain to release large amounts of serotonin and oxytocin. This is why it makes you feel loved up, happy and connected to your group. The comedown usually follows 1 - 4 days later as your serotonin level will be low as your brain tries to replenish it's stores. This means feeling depressed for a day or two. When I take ecstasy I mitigate this by taking a 100mg 5-HTP capsule before going out, then one before bed for the next three days. It maximises what you get from the drug in terms of feeling, length of the trip and just having a pleasant afterglow instead of a comedown. I highly recommend it.

In terms of sex on ecstasy, some people get what we call "pilly willy". ie Drug induced erectile disfunction. So if you're really set on banging bring some viagra just in case. Alternatively just don't take too much and don't get pilly willy.

And finally, when to take it. I normally have a hit in the queue, wait for it to kick in then at the peak about 40 mins later decide if i want another hit or not. Then continue this process til I'm at the level I want to be.

I would still recommend deciding on a maximum limit for the night to be safe, especially if this is your first time. I'd suggest no more than 0.3g of MDMA or 3 pills.

[jamaicabound]

Back in high school and college I did my fair share of x and coke and pretty much everything. Honestly now days I may consider doing it for some special even or with a chick I'm really digging but really doesn't hold much appeal for me.

First off most x you come across these days is crap unless you get some good molly or sas, most is basically just speed, not actual x or mdma. Also, you've probably experienced the hangover blues, I never really knew why or thought about why but as someone else commented ona thread you get this rush of dopamine and stuff being buzzed and then the next day your low so get that kinda sad hangover blues feel like crap the next day thing. X is like that times 100. I just don't like the come down or the lack of dopamine the next day.

Also, I see how speed and even x affects me and others, it can really make people stupid if your not fucked up too. If you've ever hung around a group of guys late at night after the parties died down and people are doing some bumps or whatever everyone thinks they are tony montana, everyone gets very cocky as far as how tough they are or telling stories or talking about hustles like oh were gonna do this and that and that and its just that fake overconfidence that it gives you. I don't like how I am on it so don't want to do it anymore.

One other thing its really fucked up how people can get sometimes. Even amonst friends people are like stashing stuff away and trying to steal, trying to get a litle more than everyone else, whoeve goes and gets it does half of it before they come back or takes osme out for themselves.

I don't mean to say casually using coke or even x turns you into a junnky stealing from your friends by no means but honestly friends who you could leave a bag of prime nugs in front of would never take them would never fuck you over would never steal from you will steal or overdo their portion of some blow.

Don't get me wrong it can be fun but after seeing how it makes me and others I kinnda shy away. Like I said I may consider doing it for like a nye bash or on vacation or soemhing but even then not that appealing.

Like others have said, I woudln't drink with it. If you wanna have a drink or two in moderation fine but you'll really be sucking down drinks when on x and it doesn't get you drunk, maybe gets you more fucked up but you still stay cognizizant. Overall though I don't think drinking isgoing to add anything to the experience and is going to dehydrate you. I'd recommend sticking to water and making sure if your dancing and sweating your drinking plenty of water, not overheating, heart not going too fast. etc

[Cr33pin]

I got pilly willy just about every time I did XTC. When I was coming down I could usually manage a erection and would fap.. I would have to fap fast and furious tho, like my fapping arm would literally be sore the next day. (Come to think of it I don't know why I didn't just wait till I was coming down to try and bang chicks) There was "a guy" living with us that sold xtc at one point and we would always having rolling girls running around butt naked and getting gangbanged, Good fucking times!

I will tell the story I mentioned in my older post about the only time I got hard and busted on E. Me and a buddy pop some E and walk like 2 miles to meet this young girl I that had been talking shit on AOL (its what old timers used when the internet first came along) So we walk to a school where she is to meet us. She eventually sneaks out and meets up. We go up in the woods beside the school and me and my buddy have no game at this point we are rolling face and just talking about how happy we are haha. She the ask us "are you guys gonna help me take my clothes off or what?" So that gets the ball rolling my buddy starts banging her while she gives me head. Neither one of us have a condom but it didnt phase my buddy. He ends up busting and shes asking me if I want to bang her, even in my MDMA'd up state I know that knocking up this young girl is not something I wanna do. I tell her since I don't have a condom I will only bang her in the butt. She says "but it will hurt" I assure her it will be ok > So I am banging her in the butt in the woods and it just starts thundering like crazy.. like vibrating your chest thunder..I am pumping away and all of a sudden I just feel like a animal.... We are in the woods, its thundering, I'm raw inside a young new ass and I feel possesd. I grab her hair and shove her face in the dirt and yell "You hear that thunder? thats me cumming girl" and I proceed to have the most intense primal orgasm of my life.. I'm yelling/moaning all these crazy ass sounds it scared my buddy hes like dude calm down. An that my friends was the most intense orgasm I will ever had. I have accepted that there will never be a time in my life I will feel like that again. Then she walked back to her house and it started pouring down the rain and we had to walk 2 miles back to my house in it but I didn't give a fuck,,, I felt the high from the MDMA and the high from the primal sex and welcomed the rain.

I think as I am getting older in life I am chasing my glory days of being young, hung and carefree. I am still banging out college aged girls but its not the same. I think I associate banging the young girls with just that carefree feeling I had when I was younger. So in my mind I think banging out young girls will make me feel like that again. It does not however but I keep trying. An obviously its still a lot of fun banging hot 18 year old girls.

[Fujiwara]

I love real deal MDMA. But it's so damn difficult to find, only things around thesse parts seem to be methylone and other undesirables. There is the slight feeling, but not strong sensation, of euphoria, and the confidence and empathy increase isn't there.

Test your drugs, everyone. Most substance sold as MDMA around these parts, is not.

[Frontenac]

Just as Fujiwara said, it's important that you do a little research on what to look for in the substance you get. Sometimes it's cut with speed or some other shit, and you could could get real fucked up on it.

[The Lizard of Oz]

This is the best documentary depiction of the effects of ecstasy:

Your ears are like dog ears

[Ingocnito]

I've had plenty of experience in this realm (all in my past). Had pure 100% (tested) MDMA, Molly, etc on numerous occasions. I personally liked them yet they are actually NOT as good imho as the perfect X-pill.

Usually anyone calling it "E" hasn't been around the block. Just sayin. It's X, beans, little guys, rolls.. in case you're lookin for it for reference.

I too, (like G-man) survived the 90's early 00's mass influx if it into the states. People I knew from H.S. who'd never smoked weed before were doing it.. got way popular.

Typically about 1 in 10 batches of X you come across are amazing, and about 1 in 5 are really good. Roughly 50% are garbage, so listen to "experienced" trusted sources, otherwise you're wasting your money.

From my experience, you actually WANT a dirty pill. It should have a combo of either MDMA & amphetamine cut, or MDMA & opiate cut, or a combo of the both.

The chemistry has to be just right. Too much cut ruins it. I feel you almost always have a seritonin and dopamine depletion afterwards, so using with any regular use, you will typically experience physical weakness and slight depression for 24-48 hours afterwards.

Finally, when you take psycho active drugs like this, never forget you're going on a "trip," so make sure your surroundings can stimulate you, as they can make a break the quality of the experience in a major fuckin way.

I'm done with this shit, and most every recreational drug, but man did I have a fuckin blast on numerous occasions while doing so. GL.

[Screwston]

There's a famous club in Berlin that is supposed to be notoriously hard to get into. I can't think of the name, but it looks and sounds like a playground if you're rolling. Huge, loud electronic music, nobody starting shit, no cops, people from all over the world, plenty of girls, stays open for days. I'm gonna go one day and sneak a few pills in just to experience as close to a real rave as you can get now a days.