[JoSuado]

(07-30-2018 03:18 PM)Bain Wrote:  

In a public speech in April 2017, Bolsonaro said that he had five children, that the first four were male, and that for the fifth he produced a daughter out of "a moment of weakness"

He strongly advocates against the legalization of same-sex unions and same-sex marriage,

In a June 2011 interview with Playboy, Bolsonaro said that "I would be incapable of loving a gay son," and added that he would prefer any son of his "to die in an accident..

no father is ever proud of having a gay son," and that "we Brazilians do not like homosexuals.

, Bolsonaro argued that men and women should not receive the same salaries, because women get pregnant; adding that he believes federal law mandating paid maternity leave harms work productivity

-----------------------------------

Wow, he has made many extreme comments like this.

I fear if he gets elected, he may well get assasinated.

(09-06-2018 06:30 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 05:31 PM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  

The left/communism is the biggest terror ideology right after Islam in the world. This kind of behavior is very common. It would happen every day with the SJWs in the West, if they were not as restrained as they are.

So it's absolutely natural for them to get violent.

The thing about violence in Brazil (and Latin America in general) is that people don't turn the other cheek unlike a lot of rightist cucks in the West. This WILL have violent blowback. Like they say, "Violence solves everything."

Self-proclaimed conservatives in Brazil have always "tuned the other cheek" to leftist assault in the past. After the military dictatorship, the left created a narrative where they were the victims, and this created a shield for them against criticism. They knew how to use it very well. They elected 4 presidents.
Things started to change with Bolsonaro. He is the first conservative candidate that denies the victim narrative of the left for the military dictatorship. He has always said that the tortures were not wrong, since the army was defending Brazil from foreign interference from Cuba and the Soviet Union.

[JoSuado]

Investigating the past and the internet steps of the stabber, it is totally clear that he is a SJW.
The media don't dare to mention it, but it is already clear. Media tries to build the narrative that he was a crazy lonely wolf, even with evidence proving otherwise.
But this is a lesson for conservatives in all the West. SJWs (including Antifas) are now using assassination attempts as a strategy. And they have the protection of mainstream media.

[Bill Brasky]

[MANic]

I do hate to intrude, particularly given that I'm not an avid follower of Brazilian politics, however, I am mildly disappointed by this thread.

A quick look around will inevitably lead to the discovery that Bolsonaro's bravado belies his lack of consistent and logical policy. His economic policy is a farrago of mismatched and inconsistent ideology. He has pussyfooted around economic protectionism (has rhetorically retracted much of his views at different times), has a vague imprecise tax framework and has absolutely no concrete plan to address a huge budget deficit.

Over and above this, I can't really ignore his egregious poor form - serilization, military rule, his religious myopia (in certain instances, he seems little more than Cruz V2.0), the comments about certain ethnic groups, about his daugther etc. He hasn't displayed even a minute trace of penetrative thought. The lack of innovative nuance in his proposed solutions are deeply worrying. With all due respect, Bolsonaro ia closer to your average low iq tradie or keyboard warrior than Trump.

This forum is far too binary in thought (muh right) to adequately scrutinize certain individuals. I agree with him on certain social issues (faggots, abortion etc.), however, I don't really feel as if his fixation on them is healthy, given Brazil's financial health this should supercede all other considerations.

P.S. protectionism in a developing economy is vastly different to its application to the USA (the imagined stable security in a sea of volatility).

[Bill Brasky]

(09-07-2018 04:38 PM)MANic Wrote:  

I do hate to intrude, particularly given that I'm not an avid follower of Brazilian politics, however, I am mildly disappointed by this thread.

A quick look around will inevitably lead to the discovery that Bolsonaro's bravado belies his lack of consistent and logical policy. His economic policy is a farrago of mismatched and inconsistent ideology. He has pussyfooted around economic protectionism (has rhetorically retracted much of his views at different times), has a vague imprecise tax framework and has absolutely no concrete plan to address a huge budget deficit.

Over and above this, I can't really ignore his egregious poor form - serilization, military rule, his religious myopia (in certain instances, he seems little more than Cruz V2.0), the comments about certain ethnic groups, about his daugther etc. He hasn't displayed even a minute trace of penetrative thought. The lack of innovative nuance in his proposed solutions are deeply worrying. With all due respect, Bolsonaro ia closer to your average low iq tradie or keyboard warrior than Trump.

This forum is far too binary in thought (muh right) to adequately scrutinize certain individuals. I agree with him on certain social issues (faggots, abortion etc.), however, I don't really feel as if his fixation on them is healthy, given Brazil's financial health this should supercede all other considerations.

P.S. protectionism in a developing economy is vastly different to its application to the USA (the imagined stable security in a sea of volatility).

I agree with what you say. However, the political game is based on rhetoric and pure emotion when you have universal enfranchisement. DJT understood this perfectly and now it is being emulated to a significant degree with a guy like Bolsonaro.

Yes, at the moment, I would also agree that the forum is binary in its political discussions. The DJT thread will have more in-depth analysis of the finer points of politics (trade, economics, immigration statistics, dialectic, philosophy). You won't really find it in the Brazil election thread because Brazilians don't make up a large user base of the RVF. In depth and proper discussion will likely be had on portuguese language forums.

[CaptainChardonnay]

From what my Brazilian friends tell me, Bolsonaro's trade/economics guy is really good.

[JoSuado]

(09-07-2018 05:36 PM)CaptainChardonnay Wrote:  

From what my Brazilian friends tell me, Bolsonaro's trade/economics guy is really good.

Bolsonaro economic guy is Paulo Guedes, alma mater in University of Chicago. He is one of the most respected Brazilian economists. The market loves him.

[wellrockthecity]

Can anyone foresee any risk of riots in big cities after elections?

[JoSuado]

(09-07-2018 04:51 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  

the political game is based on rhetoric and pure emotion when you have universal enfranchisement. DJT understood this perfectly and now it is being emulated to a significant degree with a guy like Bolsonaro.

Exactly. DJT was elected playing the role of an attorney of grass-roots conservatives, even though his own life belies many conservative principles. It doesn't matter. They ellected a competent attorney. Boslonaro is trying to do the same.

(09-07-2018 04:51 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  

You won't really find it in the Brazil election thread because Brazilians don't make up a large user base of the RVF. In depth and proper discussion will likely be had on portuguese language forums.

Exactly. It is very tough to create a deep and intricate discussion in a foreign language. We lack metaphors, common symbols, historical examples with foreigners. However, foreigners must share information.

[JoSuado]

(09-07-2018 05:42 PM)wellrockthecity Wrote:  

Can anyone foresee any risk of riots in big cities after elections?

The leader in voting intentions is arrested and denies the credibility of this electoral process. The next in voting intentions has just been stabbed and denies the credibility of voting polls.
Political climate is hot. Protests after the results are likely, but nothing that could trigger deaths or a revolution. The economy will continue to work regularly.

[MANic]

(09-07-2018 05:41 PM)JoSuado Wrote:  

(09-07-2018 05:36 PM)CaptainChardonnay Wrote:  

From what my Brazilian friends tell me, Bolsonaro's trade/economics guy is really good.

Bolsonaro economic guy is Paulo Guedes, alma mater in University of Chicago. He is one of the most respected Brazilian economists. The market loves him.

Except that Bolsonaro himself has assumed numerous contradictory positions and has made several massive changes in outlook in a short period. Fiercely against privatizing assets, now a firm supporter (in fact this is the core of Guedes' solution) - a similar scenario is evident on numerous other indicators. 10/10 chance Bolsonero gets in and makes a sweet killing on privatization (I'm referencing the nepotism incident as evidence of a not so strictly ethical approach despite the rhetoric).

I doubt Guedes will have any real authority either given that, from what I've read, he is quite the opposite of a protectionist hardliner. Bolsonaro isn't the well rounded rationalist he is painted
out to be. This guy probably hasn't picked up a book on basic economics or policy in his life and is an aspirant dictator. I am not convinced.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

< Please - intelligent protectionism is what made China, Japan and South Korea so powerful. Those fuckers have tariffs up the bazoo on so many things that the West would get shit for even if they implemented 10% of it.

How Brazil is going to implement that remains to be seen. And basic economics is overvalued - I say this as an economist. There are many many facets to an economy - I doubt that Brazil's problems will be solved by such a guy anyway.

[Foolsgo1d]

Can a large country in SA ever have a right-leaning leader without going crazy? They have serious divisions across wealth and social lines and the criminals are only getting worse.

Or is a SA right wing leader a leftie/centre by Western standards?

[MANic]

<please, Brazil lacks the industry and savvy to implement anything on a similar scale to those Asian nations. I don't see there relevance here.

[CaptainChardonnay]

I actually heard better things about João Amoedo but he is no where near as popular as Jair Bolsonaro.

[JoSuado]

(09-07-2018 11:47 PM)MANic Wrote:  

This guy probably hasn't picked up a book on basic economics or policy in his life and is an aspirant dictator. I am not convinced.

Politics is not about ideas. Politics is about people and means of action. Recently, Bolsonaro has surrounded himself by pro-market people. This is what matters. In power, he will delegate economic decisions for this people. He is not a candidate for professor of economics. He is candidate for presidency. He is an attorney of his electorate, and his electorate is 100% pro-market. If he deviates from market principles, he loses his popular support, which stems from middle-classes.
All Brazil best rulers were kings or dictators that had strong support from the middle-classes. Democracy is not a universal principle, consequently we should not take it dogmatically. Democracy is a form of government, like many others.

[JoSuado]

(09-08-2018 10:50 AM)CaptainChardonnay Wrote:  

I actually heard better things about João Amoedo but he is no where near as popular as Jair Bolsonaro.

Amoedo would be a great CEO for a multinational company. But he lacks the consciousness of a national leader.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(09-08-2018 04:44 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

Can a large country in SA ever have a right-leaning leader without going crazy? They have serious divisions across wealth and social lines and the criminals are only getting worse.

Or is a SA right wing leader a leftie/centre by Western standards?

Chile under Pinochet implemented quite strong reforms that stabilized the country for decades to come. He went somewhat overboard under certain conditions, but on the other hand - commies deserve helicopter rides anyway.

But Chile had a big advantage - it was back then 60%+ White. If Argentina had a leader like Pinochet, then they would be on mid-European level in terms of living standard.

You need 3 criteria for a successful system in our level of development (I am not talking about medieval advancement where the highest achievement was piling some rocks on top each other):

1) Shitlord rather not too corrupt leader who do what is necessary (in some countries stronger hand is needed than in others like Japan)

2) A system that is free-market, but not too libertarian (forget about the unseeing good hand of the market if that hand gets hold of your streets, water and utilities)

3) A population of sufficiently high intelligence and working ethics - in our current development the threshold is an avg IQ of 97. If you go below on average, then you may get in deep shit over time as people are easier manipulated, vote for insane candidates (Venezuela), are more corrupt as large parts of the population see only that as a valid point to compete when there is a 25 IQ gab between them and others.

That is why Chile, Uruguay and Argentina do the best - though they have still structural difficulties more akin to Portugal and a system that is partly way too much coming out of feudalism.

I noticed recently that there is a huge SJW-diversity-feminism push especially in countries like Brazil. That will fuck things up even more as they cannot afford it. I heard from diversity commissions even applied around the country who question students for university quotas and have a bunch of frankly racist questions especially for blacks like assessment of the thickness of the lips, broadness of the nose and gums. (And it's other blacks questioning them which is bizarre since a DNA test is super-cheap nowadays.) You really cannot make this shit up. And the worst thing is that I heard that even if you are 100% super-black, but answer wrongly in respect to the far-left questions of social justice, then you are not deemed black and won't get the university slot.

It's insane - and double insane because a country like the US can afford such inefficiencies far better, but Brazil?

Thus Brazil will likely remain a deeply divided unstable country. Uruguay and Argentina might pull through and go forward one day - I am less optimistic about those places. Nice to travel and good people, but so what?

[MANic]

@JoSaudo, because a protectionist aspirant dictator is pro-market? Yes, FDI is increasing as we speak (lol). Don't discount foreign investor confidence mate.

Assuming he theoretically would be a pro-market aspirant dictator, in bed with the oligarchy and courting international elite, then this will not end well for Brazilians, believe you me.

[JoSuado]

(09-08-2018 04:09 PM)MANic Wrote:  

@JoSaudo, because a protectionist aspirant dictator is pro-market? Yes, FDI is increasing as we speak (lol). Don't discount foreign investor confidence mate.

Assuming he theoretically would be a pro-market aspirant dictator, in bed with the oligarchy and courting international elite, then this will not end well for Brazilians, believe you me.

The stock market went up when Bolsonaro was stabbed, because investors knew the assault would increase his chances of winning. International markets and right-wing dictators are old allies in South America. They don't trust in the people's capacity to sustain a representative democracy in the South.
But you keep focusing on ideas. Brazil is a protectionist country not because we had former presidents with protectionist ideas, but because local farmers and industrialists imposed barriers and tariffs through lobby and corruption. To end this collusion, we need a populist government to renegotiate our international deals to better fit our interests, and this is exactly what Trump is doing in America.

[CaptainChardonnay]

From a Brazilian friend of mine:
Uruguay, Argentina and Chile have a vastly different history from Brazil. These countries were colonized by settlers, Brazil as a slave plantation. This is why Brazil has so much violence and poverty compared to the others. This has been the system ever since then. Yes the country is too diverse to be unified completely.

The Chilean system is indeed very successful, it is by far the best on the continent.

Brazilians lack work and study ethics. Unfortunately the Brazilian culture is based on laziness, promiscuity and taking advantage of situations. That's why even our most educated individuals end up being corrupt.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(09-08-2018 05:58 PM)CaptainChardonnay Wrote:  

From a Brazilian friend of mine:
Uruguay, Argentina and Chile have a vastly different history from Brazil. These countries were colonized by settlers, Brazil as a slave plantation. This is why Brazil has so much violence and poverty compared to the others. This has been the system ever since then. Yes the country is too diverse to be unified completely.

The Chilean system is indeed very successful, it is by far the best on the continent.

Brazilians lack work and study ethics. Unfortunately the Brazilian culture is based on laziness, promiscuity and taking advantage of situations. That's why even our most educated individuals end up being corrupt.

I agree with the assessment, but not with the social justice bullshit reasons cited for dysfunction:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o...nd_serfdom

Slavery was immense almost everywhere - Rome consisted majority out of slaves. They had de-facto slaves in the form of the serfs in Russia up until the late 19th century.

The same excuses are given for African dysfunction even in the countries THAT WERE NEVER COLONIZED or for 10 years!

Who is guilty for them being backwards for 200 years? Slavery and colonialism of course! Nothing can be done about it! Never fucking matters if the majority of some European populations and tribes were slaves centuries ago - nah - it's all to be blamed on someone else.

Of course the population matters, but it would not have mattered if the same people who came to Brazil were settlers or slaves. Anyone who believes that should honestly defend here that you can replace all the Swiss with Somalis and get the same Switzerland.

Good luck with that - does not matter if they come as "settlers".

You import 10 mio. Japanese slaves, liberate them and they create a mini-Japan.

[JoSuado]

(09-08-2018 05:58 PM)CaptainChardonnay Wrote:  

From a Brazilian friend of mine:
Uruguay, Argentina and Chile have a vastly different history from Brazil. These countries were colonized by settlers, Brazil as a slave plantation. This is why Brazil has so much violence and poverty compared to the others. This has been the system ever since then. Yes the country is too diverse to be unified completely.

The Chilean system is indeed very successful, it is by far the best on the continent.

Brazilians lack work and study ethics. Unfortunately the Brazilian culture is based on laziness, promiscuity and taking advantage of situations. That's why even our most educated individuals end up being corrupt.

Carroll Quigley used to say that technology is transferred in the short term, while culture is transmitted only in the long term. That is why European nations are less violent than America, even though the US is technologically as advanced as Europe.
Countries like Brazil and Mexico have a significant presence of primitive races in their population. This makes them even more violent. To make matters worse, Catholic priests, in their attempt to soothe the soul of the indians, have been boycotted by the state, which feared their influence.
Watch the movie The Mission with Robert de Niro (it's a Hollywood movie, but it's historically accurate).

[lionel]

JoSuado fala cara tudo bem?
Surprised to see a BR elections thread here.
Guys this country is so fucked up... 60k murders per year. Ultra-Corrupt socialists on goverment (I'm glad Lula is in jail, hope he gets rotten there). Western European-like taxes... with Congo-like 'public services'.
#TheMyth is really the only hope one can see on this land at the moment really.
He was so close to death, only 2 mm and a important vein would be busted. More 5 minutes he wouldn't have enough time to arrive at the hospital.
Guy is tough.
If you believe in any God I ask you to pray for his life and for this land.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(09-08-2018 11:20 PM)JoSuado Wrote:  

(09-08-2018 05:58 PM)CaptainChardonnay Wrote:  

From a Brazilian friend of mine:
Uruguay, Argentina and Chile have a vastly different history from Brazil. These countries were colonized by settlers, Brazil as a slave plantation. This is why Brazil has so much violence and poverty compared to the others. This has been the system ever since then. Yes the country is too diverse to be unified completely.

The Chilean system is indeed very successful, it is by far the best on the continent.

Brazilians lack work and study ethics. Unfortunately the Brazilian culture is based on laziness, promiscuity and taking advantage of situations. That's why even our most educated individuals end up being corrupt.

Carroll Quigley used to say that technology is transferred in the short term, while culture is transmitted only in the long term. That is why European nations are less violent than America, even though the US is technologically as advanced as Europe.
Countries like Brazil and Mexico have a significant presence of primitive races in their population. This makes them even more violent. To make matters worse, Catholic priests, in their attempt to soothe the soul of the indians, have been boycotted by the state, which feared their influence.
Watch the movie The Mission with Robert de Niro (it's a Hollywood movie, but it's historically accurate).

Actually the surprising thing about US crime stats is that if the US were 100% European, then it would have similar violent crime rates to the old Western European ones. Some tribes in the US are over-represented at levels of almost 10.000%. And the Asian ones for example making up Hawaii (it's mostly a mix of Chinese, Japanese and natives) - they are less criminal than Whites, which also fits the previously known science (just only 20-40% less criminal, and not 95% less).



https://www.amren.com/archives/reports/t...d-edition/

That is why the US was one of the safest countries in the world and the most happy one in the 1950s. The European settlers created a new country similar, but somewhat different to old Europe. The similarity was the low-crime rate and general high-trust in the society.

By the way - Sweden before mass migration was the safest and happiest country in the world in the 1980s - it took them just longer to get up in terms of living standards.

I personally have no idea on how to tackle Brazil's problems at least in the form of a democracy - frankly I don't think that it can be done. The best thing would be honestly a benevolent dictatorship under very shitlord rules and no more elections. But I wonder how the people would take that? Probably not good.... Democracy works only under certain conditions and Brazil does not meet those conditions. The Arab countries have the same issue for similar reasons - your best choice there is a strongman leader like the Shah of Persia. (and I get it that they are not Arabs, but old Persia is only partly there)

By the way - had to laugh at the statement: "Western European-like taxes... with Congo-like 'public services'." Hilarious.