[Batman_]

I'm getting more and more bitter and cynical about the idea of getting into an LTR. I'm starting to wonder if should even bother with it. Ironically, my knowledge of game seems inversely related with my ability to get into LTRs. During my younger years I got into relationships somewhat easily, although admittedly my first in junior high/high school were sexless and petty. Although by the time I was in my early 20s I fell into what I now recognize as the only good LTR I've had, in spite of my cringe-worthy blue-pilled beta behavior. We had mind-blowing, psychedelic, orgasmic sex multiple times a day, and constantly went to interesting places and did interesting things.

It was after the breakup that I discovered game and began doing cold approaches and deepening my knowledge. I went to parties and bars multiple times a week and it was by far the greatest period of my life. Before long, I was getting frequent numbers and makeouts and had a few SNL's, which was a massive improvement considering that I back in my HS days I was effectively socially retarded and had intense social anxiety. At first, it was incredibly exciting. It was all so new and fun, and the last thing I wanted to do was get into another relationship.

LTRs were never on my radar nor were they ever a goal. For a while, I wasn't remotely interested in them. Occasionally I would go out with a girl if she really stood out, but nothing ever came from it. Over the years I slowly become more successful with women. Now, more than ever, I actually feel interested in the idea of an LTR again, but I can't help but they are a hopeless illusion that will never manifest in the way I envision. I’m beginning to question the legitimacy of LTR’s and dating generally, while also suspecting that my previous LTR from my early 20s happened out of pure luck.

---

I made this thread mainly due to the date I went on today. First date was a few days ago - very attractive she seemed like my type and the date went well. She texted me back pretty early the next day, immediately agreeing to meet up again in a few days (today). She even said she would cook me something at my place afterwards. I just got back from the date which ended with her leaving early before even coming to my place, and wouldn't even kiss me, despite making physical contact and trying to escalate things. I actually saw some LTR potential in her (and it wasn't onetis, as I had other dates around hers), and despite the green lights, it fucking went nowhere.

I feel pretty hollow and cynical as a result of this and a string of other bad dates and experiences I've had with women over the past few months. I've been on some of the worst dates of my life recently and it's very troubling.

It's even more troubling considering that my life was great last year, and I got laid a lot because of it. But starting in February of this year, after starting a new job, my life started to slide so quickly that I could hardly apprehend it. This workplace really did a number on me and it seemed to set me back a lot - my social anxiety was at unprecedented levels, and near the end it was so bad that I was having panic attacks every night and could barely even handle something as simple as getting an eye exam without intense discomfort.

Recently, I found a much better job and since then I've been quick to get myself reoriented again and getting my life in order, but dating has been a complete shitshow and it's hard to know what to think of it. Are LTR's a waste of effort in my case? It seems like the best option is to try to keep fucking new women and spin plates, assume an LTR isn't even desirable, and focus on the things that really add value and meaning to your life.

[RatInTheWoods]

(06-30-2018 04:35 PM)Batman_ Wrote:  

I just got back from the date which ended with her leaving early before even coming to my place, and wouldn't even kiss me, despite making physical contact and trying to escalate things. I actually saw some LTR potential in her (and it wasn't onetis, as I had other dates around hers), and despite the green lights, it fucking went nowhere.

What if I told you some decent women don't fuck on the second date?

If things went well, and you both like each other, be patient and go for another date.

She is probably a "three date Kate".

Be eleated and optimistic that she isn't a slut who you choke and spit on during gonzo sex on the 1st date.

Isn't this almost a prerequisite for a LTR?

[Batman_]

(06-30-2018 05:51 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

(06-30-2018 04:35 PM)Batman_ Wrote:  

I just got back from the date which ended with her leaving early before even coming to my place, and wouldn't even kiss me, despite making physical contact and trying to escalate things. I actually saw some LTR potential in her (and it wasn't onetis, as I had other dates around hers), and despite the green lights, it fucking went nowhere.

What if I told you some decent women don't fuck on the second date?

If things went well, and you both like each other, be patient and go for another date.

She is probably a "three date Kate".

Be eleated and optimistic that she isn't a slut who you choke and spit on during gonzo sex on the 1st date.

Isn't this almost a prerequisite for a LTR?

No. I've never fucked a girl who I didn't at least kiss me by the 2nd date. She gave me the cheek and cut the date short, also gave me the boilerplate "I'm not ready for a relationship" BS. I already deleted her number.

[torridon747]

(06-30-2018 04:35 PM)Batman_ Wrote:  

I'm getting more and more bitter and cynical about the idea of getting into an LTR. I'm starting to wonder if should even bother with it. Ironically, my knowledge of game seems inversely related with my ability to get into LTRs. During my younger years I got into relationships somewhat easily, although admittedly my first in junior high/high school were sexless and petty. Although by the time I was in my early 20s I fell into what I now recognize as the only good LTR I've had, in spite of my cringe-worthy blue-pilled beta behavior. We had mind-blowing, psychedelic, orgasmic sex multiple times a day, and constantly went to interesting places and did interesting things.

Might be nastalgia goggles. There's a reason that relationship didn't work out and you're not with her today. The sex was good sure, you didn't coupley stuff, sure. If you were blue pill at the time you probably didn't know how to manage things correctly or even tell if she was the girl for you at the time. Think about why it didn't work and of course always keep your memories but don't idealize the past, it's gone now and it's not coming back

(06-30-2018 04:35 PM)Batman_ Wrote:  

It was after the breakup that I discovered game and began doing cold approaches and deepening my knowledge. I went to parties and bars multiple times a week and it was by far the greatest period of my life. Before long, I was getting frequent numbers and makeouts and had a few SNL's, which was a massive improvement considering that I back in my HS days I was effectively socially retarded and had intense social anxiety. At first, it was incredibly exciting. It was all so new and fun, and the last thing I wanted to do was get into another relationship.

LTRs were never on my radar nor were they ever a goal. For a while, I wasn't remotely interested in them. Occasionally I would go out with a girl if she really stood out, but nothing ever came from it. Over the years I slowly become more successful with women. Now, more than ever, I actually feel interested in the idea of an LTR again, but I can't help but they are a hopeless illusion that will never manifest in the way I envision. I’m beginning to question the legitimacy of LTR’s and dating generally, while also suspecting that my previous LTR from my early 20s happened out of pure luck.

I'm in a similar spot. It's easy to give up. I assume you're in America? I'm on the west coast USA and the LTR quality women are difficult to find and identify and game. Sluts are plentiful and I have no problem fucking a new girl every week or two if my focus/game is elsewhere. If you want an LTR ask yourself why you want one. Get down the brass tacks and serious reasons. A new relationship with someone is just that, it's new. It's not something you had before, or even what you're envisioning. If you want an LTR for the sake of one I would say your inclination may be right, it might be pointless right now

(06-30-2018 04:35 PM)Batman_ Wrote:  

---

I made this thread mainly due to the date I went on today. First date was a few days ago - very attractive she seemed like my type and the date went well. She texted me back pretty early the next day, immediately agreeing to meet up again in a few days (today). She even said she would cook me something at my place afterwards. I just got back from the date which ended with her leaving early before even coming to my place, and wouldn't even kiss me, despite making physical contact and trying to escalate things. I actually saw some LTR potential in her (and it wasn't onetis, as I had other dates around hers), and despite the green lights, it fucking went nowhere.

I feel pretty hollow and cynical as a result of this and a string of other bad dates and experiences I've had with women over the past few months. I've been on some of the worst dates of my life recently and it's very troubling.

It's even more troubling considering that my life was great last year, and I got laid a lot because of it. But starting in February of this year, after starting a new job, my life started to slide so quickly that I could hardly apprehend it. This workplace really did a number on me and it seemed to set me back a lot - my social anxiety was at unprecedented levels, and near the end it was so bad that I was having panic attacks every night and could barely even handle something as simple as getting an eye exam without intense discomfort.

Recently, I found a much better job and since then I've been quick to get myself reoriented again and getting my life in order, but dating has been a complete shitshow and it's hard to know what to think of it. Are LTR's a waste of effort in my case? It seems like the best option is to try to keep fucking new women and spin plates, assume an LTR isn't even desirable, and focus on the things that really add value and meaning to your life.

It's easy to get cynical my man. Women all have the same base programming and that's why we're all here learning how to use it. However, there are some good quality women out there. I would advise you to focus on wealth creation and setting up your future over women. Of course there's something to be said about having an agreeable women that does her job as a woman should - IE supports you in your endeavours and makes certain parts of your life easier.

You sound like you're torn, take some time for reflection. I can say with confidence there are LTR quality women out there, it just takes work to find them and keep them. Figure out if that's something you want to devote yourself to and what you're willing to do to get there.

(06-30-2018 06:04 PM)Batman_ Wrote:  

No. I've never fucked a girl who I didn't at least kiss me by the 2nd date. She gave me the cheek and cut the date short, also gave me the boilerplate "I'm not ready for a relationship" BS. I already deleted her number.

You may have come on too strong hinting at LTR type stuff, or she may not be attracted to you enough. Hard to say, but that's girl talk for "I'm uncomfortable with you being my man" which all in all is a soft rejection. You may be able to agree and amplify, get her to fuck you, and she may end up finding something she likes in you in the end. If she really is LTR quality it might be something worth considering. Girls catch feelings after so many sex sessions, and if she isn't a calloused slut she won't know how to shut them down and may go with your intentions. That would be an uphill battle but things like that are possible. If you end up persuing something like that just remember to use the rule of thumb to invest only half as much as the woman does in you at any given time. When power dynamics shift that's when things start to get ugly and embarrassing.

I encourage you to cast any feelings of helplessness in your situation aside. You sound like a smart and capable dude - the reality is you probably have what it takes to get what you want out of life.

[PapayaTapper]

Deciding you want an LTR from the onset is a problem for a number of reasons.

First and foremost you are by definition invested on the outcome of the date because you want a relationship. That means a 2nd date, 3rd date, sex are objectives. This "want" is likely leaking into your game. You probably dont realize it that it is, but girls are way more intuitively adept at any kind of "neediness" and its killing the attraction

If what you say is true that you were more successful before when you weren't looking for LTR, then there's the proof.

My advice: Take it one date at a time with no expectation beyond that. If you bang a girl then end up banging her again, then end up banging her again, etc etc...voile'...your in a relationship

Every single LTR and mini LTR I ever had started out as me trying to bang that girl once. The relationship just developed organically in hindsight way more than in any foresight

Edit:

(06-30-2018 05:51 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

What if I told you some decent women don't fuck on the second date?

If things went well, and you both like each other, be patient and go for another date.

She is probably a "three date Kate".

Be eleated and optimistic that she isn't a slut who you choke and spit on during gonzo sex on the 1st date.

Isn't this almost a prerequisite for a LTR?

And by the way...^ This

[Batman_]

Thanks for the solid advice in this thread so far. A lot to think about.

I can tell with this particular girl she was a late bloomer of sorts; and she went to a Christian college, it makes me wonder. I find it hard to believe that this thing with her isn't necessarily over, I would think that with the way this date ended (no kiss and saying she isn't ready for a relationship) means it's a blind alley, especially if I was giving subconscious LTR-vibes.

How would you even proceed from here?

[CleanSlate]

OP, maybe this is not the only problem. You said your dating life went to shit and social anxiety went up after you got this new job.

What is it about this new job that’s been making you miserable and anxious, and possibly leading to wanting a relationship (for the wrong reasons)?

[Hazaer]

(06-30-2018 06:04 PM)Batman_ Wrote:  

(06-30-2018 05:51 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

(06-30-2018 04:35 PM)Batman_ Wrote:  

I just got back from the date which ended with her leaving early before even coming to my place, and wouldn't even kiss me, despite making physical contact and trying to escalate things. I actually saw some LTR potential in her (and it wasn't onetis, as I had other dates around hers), and despite the green lights, it fucking went nowhere.

What if I told you some decent women don't fuck on the second date?

If things went well, and you both like each other, be patient and go for another date.

She is probably a "three date Kate".

Be eleated and optimistic that she isn't a slut who you choke and spit on during gonzo sex on the 1st date.

Isn't this almost a prerequisite for a LTR?

No. I've never fucked a girl who I didn't at least kiss me by the 2nd date. She gave me the cheek and cut the date short, also gave me the boilerplate "I'm not ready for a relationship" BS. I already deleted her number.

I agree with the other posters, you might have given her the relationship vibe. Keep it fun, keep it cool. Treat her the same as any other girl you want to have a short term relationship with. Not sure how old you are but your job/profession always comes before girls. I find sorting that out helps in other aspects of life quite often.
If a girl think you are a long term prospect, she will communicate that in some way. Also, don't delete numbers. She might be up for something today but things change maybe a week or a month later if you casually hit her up again.

[RatInTheWoods]

(06-30-2018 06:04 PM)Batman_ Wrote:  

No. I've never fucked a girl who I didn't at least kiss me by the 2nd date. She gave me the cheek and cut the date short, also gave me the boilerplate "I'm not ready for a relationship" BS. I already deleted her number.

Well I have fucked many a girl that didn't kiss second date, and they were better LTRS than the bang first night ones.

But I missed the bit about "no ready for a relationship" bit.

Thats my cue to ignore her and chase other women.

But as others have said above, that may make her change her mind, if you show value by not chasing a chick like that, she may get attracted.

Reason being it's kind of a shit test, "will he let me beta orbit him?" If you ghost from there she knows its game on or fuck off.

There's a difference between a nice girl going slow, and a girl that's just not interested in you, and you should easily be able to tell the difference.

I can be patient with a (quality) nice girl showing interest, but I got no time for a lack of interest woman.

[RatInTheWoods]

(06-30-2018 07:48 PM)Batman_ Wrote:  

How would you even proceed from here?

Don't contact her, chase other women.

First time she contacts you, say "I thought you aren't ready for relationship?" This will make her either back peddle or try and say she wants to be friends. If she tries that, just say "I got enough friends" and hang up.

This is assuming you want to LTR her, not just bang and fang.

[Batman_]

(06-30-2018 10:15 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

OP, maybe this is not the only problem. You said your dating life went to shit and social anxiety went up after you got this new job.

What is it about this new job that’s been making you miserable and anxious, and possibly leading to wanting a relationship (for the wrong reasons)?

The job was just all kinds awful - I worked in a corporate inbound call center for a major insurance company. It was so bad that I couldn't even enjoy my weekends off because I was dreading going into work every second that I was away. Without going into the specifics, it took a number on me because the working conditions stripped away my defenses and my life started to rapidly slide out of my own hands. It's hard to wrap my head around the fact that working there for a mere 4 months sort of unglued my sanity and left me feeling dreadful and hopeless.

But the good news is that I quit that job and jumped ship 3 weeks ago to something much better, and I've been getting myself reoriented again, though it's been difficult. It's no surprise that my dating life suffered during this period nor that I ended up craving some sort of meaningful intimacy. I also blame the sort of music that I've been listening to lately, which seems to involve some idealistic romanticism.

(07-01-2018 12:20 AM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

(06-30-2018 07:48 PM)Batman_ Wrote:  

How would you even proceed from here?

Don't contact her, chase other women.

First time she contacts you, say "I thought you aren't ready for relationship?" This will make her either back peddle or try and say she wants to be friends. If she tries that, just say "I got enough friends" and hang up.

This is assuming you want to LTR her, not just bang and fang.

That was pretty much my plan anyway, but I am not expecting her to contact me back. I did genuinely see LTR potential in her, which I rarely see in the women I meet. Next time I met a girl like that I'll take the advice in this thread and go into it without any expectations.

[jcardial]

(06-30-2018 06:04 PM)Batman_ Wrote:  

(06-30-2018 05:51 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

(06-30-2018 04:35 PM)Batman_ Wrote:  

I just got back from the date which ended with her leaving early before even coming to my place, and wouldn't even kiss me, despite making physical contact and trying to escalate things. I actually saw some LTR potential in her (and it wasn't onetis, as I had other dates around hers), and despite the green lights, it fucking went nowhere.

What if I told you some decent women don't fuck on the second date?

If things went well, and you both like each other, be patient and go for another date.

She is probably a "three date Kate".

Be eleated and optimistic that she isn't a slut who you choke and spit on during gonzo sex on the 1st date.

Isn't this almost a prerequisite for a LTR?

No. I've never fucked a girl who I didn't at least kiss me by the 2nd date. She gave me the cheek and cut the date short, also gave me the boilerplate "I'm not ready for a relationship" BS. I already deleted her number.

In the context of you admitting to us you want an LTR and having prematurely decided this girl was good enough, her comment "I'm not ready for a relationship" is indicative of you telegraphing neediness for something serious which is super antagonistic to attraction. Once you decide a girl is good enough so early (even sub consciously), your game will suffer badly once it's clear you're chasing her much more than the reverse.

When one person is chasing way harder than the other, the pursued implicitly doesn't feel like she's doing well for herself. So much of good game is getting the other person to chase and invest at least proportionally and ideally a bit more than you. Getting her to come over and cook was a way to get her to invest and chase. It sounds like you chased so hard during the date that it killed very palpable interest she had prior to the date.

You most likely made big game blunders during the date. The good news is they probably arose mostly from prematurely deciding she was good enough as an offshoot of your desire to have a relationship. If you tip your hand even slightly through conversation and body language that you're thirsty to lock things down so early on it will kill the attraction for any man or woman.

If a girl were overly eager to settle down on the first or second date you'd start to wonder why she's desperate and why no one else wants her and it would likely extinguish your attraction for her and cause you to look for negatives rather than positives. It's a bit like a woman who is willing to put out really early. If she doesn't make you chase or invest at all to achieve the end prize it is implicitly of very low value.

[Batman_]

(07-01-2018 12:29 PM)jcardial Wrote:  

In the context of you admitting to us you want an LTR and having prematurely decided this girl was good enough, her comment "I'm not ready for a relationship" is indicative of you telegraphing neediness for something serious which is super antagonistic to attraction. Once you decide a girl is good enough so early (even sub consciously), your game will suffer badly once it's clear you're chasing her much more than the reverse.

When one person is chasing way harder than the other, the pursued implicitly doesn't feel like she's doing well for herself. So much of good game is getting the other person to chase and invest at least proportionally and ideally a bit more than you. Getting her to come over and cook was a way to get her to invest and chase. It sounds like you chased so hard during the date that it killed very palpable interest she had prior to the date.

You most likely made big game blunders during the date. The good news is they probably arose mostly from prematurely deciding she was good enough as an offshoot of your desire to have a relationship. If you tip your hand even slightly through conversation and body language that you're thirsty to lock things down so early on it will kill the attraction for any man or woman.

If a girl were overly eager to settle down on the first or second date you'd start to wonder why she's desperate and why no one else wants her and it would likely extinguish your attraction for her and cause you to look for negatives rather than positives. It's a bit like a woman who is willing to put out really early. If she doesn't make you chase or invest at all to achieve the end prize it is implicitly of very low value.

Argh, isn't that the bitter truth. I somehow forgot in the span of a few days. After our first date I waited for her to text me back first, which she did, then I compliance tested her a lot and made her invest when she agreed to cook dinner. She even picked me up and drove me to the date location. I must have seriously fucked things up on the 2nd date itself - she was clearly very interested at first.

[chvrches]

(07-01-2018 12:15 AM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

(06-30-2018 06:04 PM)Batman_ Wrote:  

No. I've never fucked a girl who I didn't at least kiss me by the 2nd date. She gave me the cheek and cut the date short, also gave me the boilerplate "I'm not ready for a relationship" BS. I already deleted her number.

Well I have fucked many a girl that didn't kiss second date, and they were better LTRS than the bang first night ones.

But I missed the bit about "no ready for a relationship" bit.

Thats my cue to ignore her and chase other women.

But as others have said above, that may make her change her mind, if you show value by not chasing a chick like that, she may get attracted.

Reason being it's kind of a shit test, "will he let me beta orbit him?" If you ghost from there she knows its game on or fuck off.

There's a difference between a nice girl going slow, and a girl that's just not interested in you, and you should easily be able to tell the difference.

I can be patient with a (quality) nice girl showing interest, but I got no time for a lack of interest woman.

Interesting... im in a very similar situation with a girl i've been on a date with and nothing happened, not much kino etc, i took it slow considering she was a shy girl, but the second date i managed to kiss her and we had a good time, we got closer to each other than ever, felt like we vibed a lot and she also told me she's starting to really like me and she said she hasn't felt like this for a guy in a long time.

I believe she's the "quality nice girl showing interest" you're talking about, but when ive tried to invite her out on a 3rd date, she's been flaking like crazy.

I thought it was because she's insecure or scared for what will happen on the 3rd date (sex obviously) so she's holding back, but it could be the same scenario as Batman. Everything is going smooth but i've invited her on a 3rd date twice now and she's made up an excuse.

I said "it's fine" both times because i think she's worth the wait. But it's pissing me off because i usually don't give a girl more than 2 chances. After that, i figure it's either ghost them or delete them.

What do you think causes this situation Rat. Is it the girl scared to commitment? As i said, if a girl flakes twice on me i never contact her again, but what would you do. As you said, she's a girl trying to go slow, but how slow should i tolerate?

[jcardial]

(07-01-2018 02:20 PM)chvrches Wrote:  

(07-01-2018 12:15 AM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

(06-30-2018 06:04 PM)Batman_ Wrote:  

No. I've never fucked a girl who I didn't at least kiss me by the 2nd date. She gave me the cheek and cut the date short, also gave me the boilerplate "I'm not ready for a relationship" BS. I already deleted her number.

Well I have fucked many a girl that didn't kiss second date, and they were better LTRS than the bang first night ones.

But I missed the bit about "no ready for a relationship" bit.

Thats my cue to ignore her and chase other women.

But as others have said above, that may make her change her mind, if you show value by not chasing a chick like that, she may get attracted.

Reason being it's kind of a shit test, "will he let me beta orbit him?" If you ghost from there she knows its game on or fuck off.

There's a difference between a nice girl going slow, and a girl that's just not interested in you, and you should easily be able to tell the difference.

I can be patient with a (quality) nice girl showing interest, but I got no time for a lack of interest woman.

Interesting... im in a very similar situation with a girl i've been on a date with and nothing happened, not much kino etc, i took it slow considering she was a shy girl, but the second date i managed to kiss her and we had a good time, we got closer to each other than ever, felt like we vibed a lot and she also told me she's starting to really like me and she said she hasn't felt like this for a guy in a long time.

I believe she's the "quality nice girl showing interest" you're talking about, but when ive tried to invite her out on a 3rd date, she's been flaking like crazy.

I thought it was because she's insecure or scared for what will happen on the 3rd date (sex obviously) so she's holding back, but it could be the same scenario as Batman. Everything is going smooth but i've invited her on a 3rd date twice now and she's made up an excuse.

I said "it's fine" both times because i think she's worth the wait. But it's pissing me off because i usually don't give a girl more than 2 chances. After that, i figure it's either ghost them or delete them.

What do you think causes this situation Rat. Is it the girl scared to commitment? As i said, if a girl flakes twice on me i never contact her again, but what would you do. As you said, she's a girl trying to go slow, but how slow should i tolerate?

We've already addressed your situation generously so stop shotgun blasting the forum with the same "oneitis for flakey naive girl" problem. It has nothing to do with this thread and this girl is clearly an attention hoe.

If she didn't propose an alternate day on either date invite you're wasting your time and mental energy (and ours too). Quit being a big ol' bitch and move on.

[RatInTheWoods]

(07-01-2018 02:20 PM)chvrches Wrote:  

What do you think causes this situation Rat. Is it the girl scared to commitment? As i said, if a girl flakes twice on me i never contact her again, but what would you do. As you said, she's a girl trying to go slow, but how slow should i tolerate?

Her turn to show interest. Don't contact her after two knockbacks.

Pursue other women.

[jselysianeagle]

A lesson I've learned the hard way is that if a girl doesn't at least make out with you on the first date, there's a very low chance you'll be able to bring her around to anything more on subsequent dates.

OP, you're better off learning from this experience and moving on.

Good luck.

[ksbms]

(06-30-2018 04:35 PM)Batman_ Wrote:  

I'm getting more and more bitter and cynical about the idea of getting into an LTR. [...] I went to parties and bars multiple times a week and it was by far the greatest period of my life. Before long, I was getting frequent numbers and makeouts and had a few SNL's [...] Now, more than ever, I actually feel interested in the idea of an LTR again, but I can't help but they are a hopeless illusion that will never manifest in the way I envision. I’m beginning to question the legitimacy of LTR’s and dating generally, while also suspecting that my previous LTR from my early 20s happened out of pure luck.

Watch, or better, talk to dudes (as long as you can have them talk out of depth of their hearts, that is) who've been in LTRs, aka "marriage" for more than 2 years. Even better, 5 years or longer. I can assure you, a significant majority (80% or more?) would love to be out of their LTRs/marriages and have a freedom that you take for granted.

Grass is always greener on the other side...

[Dalaran1991]

(07-02-2018 04:15 AM)ksbms Wrote:  

Watch, or better, talk to dudes (as long as you can have them talk out of depth of their hearts, that is) who've been in LTRs, aka "marriage" for more than 2 years. Even better, 5 years or longer. I can assure you, a significant majority (80% or more?) would love to be out of their LTRs/marriages and have a freedom that you take for granted.

Grass is always greener on the other side...

Slightly disagree because most people are in dead-on-arrivals relationships. The better answer would be, find a strong, masculine man who is in a relationship/marriage with a good woman who had to earn her place. I can assure you it looks very different.

I don't know about USA, but here in Paris 50-70% of people I know are in relationships. The rest are either riding the orgies (5%) or incels. And overwhelmingly their LTR is bullshit. They met in social circle, shack up together, got lazy and comfortable and stay in it even though it should have ended a long time ago. Most of the time the girls cheat but then they keep going with their beta boyfriend as if nothing happens. Or the girls actively seek a beta boyfriend so she can control the LTR.

Back to the OP:

Being in a LTR has tons of benefits, but going on a date with the express intention of looking for a LTR is flawed in my opinion.

You should never think about being in a LTR with a girl unless you have slept with her at least 3 times. Some girls don't give it up unless you are in a LTR with them, they can either be legit good girls or old carousel riders. In these cases you tell them you are ok being in a LTR and nothing prevent you from breaking up later once you get all the bangs. Or you avoid them altogether.

Like other have said, when you go on a date with the wrong mindset it's easy to get frustrate. In your example I don't see any reason why you get mad at the girl? No girl is ever "ready to be in a LTR" until you fuck her brains out. It's your job to get to that point, then it's her job to lock her down.

The second point in your OP of not seeing the point of a LTR. Well, date better women. Date cute, feminine girls who like to dress well, pleasant to talk to, have the happy genes and eager to please you. If you are just scoring club chicks and bar sluts or sorority whores I don't see the point in being in a LTR either. I do sympathize with you though that most girls are just plain boring to date, so you fuck them and forget tomorrow. But there are quality girls out there.

[jcardial]

(07-02-2018 04:15 AM)ksbms Wrote:  

(06-30-2018 04:35 PM)Batman_ Wrote:  

I'm getting more and more bitter and cynical about the idea of getting into an LTR. [...] I went to parties and bars multiple times a week and it was by far the greatest period of my life. Before long, I was getting frequent numbers and makeouts and had a few SNL's [...] Now, more than ever, I actually feel interested in the idea of an LTR again, but I can't help but they are a hopeless illusion that will never manifest in the way I envision. I’m beginning to question the legitimacy of LTR’s and dating generally, while also suspecting that my previous LTR from my early 20s happened out of pure luck.

Watch, or better, talk to dudes (as long as you can have them talk out of depth of their hearts, that is) who've been in LTRs, aka "marriage" for more than 2 years. Even better, 5 years or longer. I can assure you, a significant majority (80% or more?) would love to be out of their LTRs/marriages and have a freedom that you take for granted.

Grass is always greener on the other side...

There are pros and cons to both, but it doesn't prove anything that the average person can't achieve success in xyz, especially something that is difficult. Most people are painfully mediocre at life, so what value is there in knowing that most of their love lives are also very mediocre.

Very few men develop the attributes and skill sets to attract the exceptionally appealing women that are worth keeping around. Many end up sleeping with a bunch of mediocre women and find it unfulfilling so they settle down with one of them out of laziness or thinking it's what they're supposed to do and they unsurprisingly end up feeling trapped.

The much rarer breed of men who can attract beautiful women consistently eventually find a rare one that also has an appealing personality and they settle down and are often more content than the guy who has the freedom to bang unlimited mediocrity.