[Maistre]

So I get why, whenever you're not in a truly serious LTR (and depending on your (a)morality, including a serious LTR lol) having a rotation of girls is super important for maximizing your game. Spinning plates Demonstrates High Value, keeps you from getting too attached to any girl, makes sure you always have options available to keep neediness at bay, etc, etc.

---

So I get all this intellectually, and there have definitely been times in my life where I've had different fuck buddies on call for a couple weeks at a time when I was like transitioning between main hook ups or whatever. But I've definitely noticed that when I'm consistently having good sex with a girl a like, my drive to go out into the world and deal with all the headaches, rejection, and straight up footwork of spitting at new girls goes WAY DOWN. I can struggle with getting my dick up and hitting the pavement to spit game at the best (or technically worst, I suppose) of times, when I haven't seen a pussy since the last seasonal change or something like that. But like when I'm consistently fucking a chick, my willingness to deal with all the bullshit involved in really running pickup just plummets. A girl pretty much has to fall into my lap, figuratively speaking (eg like we strike up a conversation casually at a house party and i can just tell she's down. like that level of easy.) for me to fuck her if im already getting laid consistently. It's not really, or primarily at least, a sex drive thing: if I'm fucking 2-3 nights a week with one girl I'll still be jacking off a good amount. It's just that having to wade out into the sexual marketplace when I don't really feel an urgent need is something I shy away from...what does that say about me, besides the obvious "i'm not in the flow state of my game abilities yet"?

---

So mainly just posted this here
(1) to put these thoughts and feelings I've had for a while down in writing, to give them a more definite form so that I might more easily easily understand them myself
(2) see if anyone else in the forum has or continues to experience this same phenomena. Maybe there's some shared attribute that's holding us back from stepping up our game into the harem stage lol - in fact, I'm sure there is, if it's not several things. Any guesses as to specific mechanisms that might be underlying this reticence? I guess one obvious answer is that my game just isn't tight enough: if it were better, I would have much less of a deterrent to going out there and spitting because I get better returns on time/energy investment. Could it also be (gasp) that I'm a person who naturally tends towards monogamy? Hmmm.
(3) To get forum members' broader takes on "spinning plates," what it involves on behalf of the man personally, what sort of social dynamics it generates, and what it does for your romantic life?

[kaotic]

Stop jacking off, we have a no-fap-thread, stop watching porn.

If you don't lift, start doing that, it helps with your test levels and makes you feel good.

All of the above will keep you a horn dog on the chase.

Spinning plates is related to game fatigue, once your sexual desires are met, you just don't give much a fuck about girls.

Having a main gf can be boring so guys go out for side action and spin those plates as side bitches.

If you don't have a main girl, sometimes spinning plates can get messy, especially in the 3-5 range if you don't know what you're doing.

You bring up morality and pointing towards monogamy - that's totally natural and respectable.

Just keep in mind you need to understand game principles, understand how women work, and apply that to your life.

Some guys just want a few girls to fuck, some guys just want one legit girl to fuck all the time.


ALL of the outcome of your game depends on YOU - in the end you're the one in charge of your lifestyle.

[True Balla]

I would say I'm of a similar way. However, I take your stance a tad bit further. The main girl requires attention, being taken out, and all of that too. I don't provide that, and just do basic texting, netflix, and chilling. That will get boring for them sooner or later, so I am always on the prowl for new plates as well. However, unlike you I do it the lazy way. I just reel them in online and keep a constant 3-5 knowing they'll all fall off eventually one by one when they get bored of Netflix and chill (which I really enjoy).

[Maistre]

(06-28-2018 05:11 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Stop jacking off, we have a no-fap-thread, stop watching porn.

If you don't lift, start doing that, it helps with your test levels and makes you feel good.

All of the above will keep you a horn dog on the chase.

Yeah so lifting is something I've actually always been good about, been steady and serious enough about it since I was introduced to the iron at 14 that it's remained a constant in my life for the past 8 years and I've been able to maintain semi-respectable strength levels throughout. It's fallen off though in the past 6 months, senior year of college and all the craziness that comes with it has kept me from the gym but I'm swinging back into it now.

Ok and w/r/t to the "stop jacking off" and the "stop watching porn" stuff. So I get it. I really totally do, and recognize that it would probably be the best thing to do. But dude like...when I can't jack off, I get so unbelievably horny to the point where like I just fucking need it to chill myself tf out. And I really don't think it reduces my sex drive in a huge way, ie i still am definitely horny and trying to get my nut on nights where I jacked off that day. My last excuse is that all my buddies who are true natural players of the game jack off and watch porn all the goddamned time. I don't know, part of its obviously my addiction but I just have very little interest in getting on the NoFap train that's largely populated by (hate to say it but...) internet weirdos.

My failure to develop multiple-girl rosters is something else I believe. Bro it's honestly, if I think I'm giving a real appraisal of myself, more an issue of my game still somewhat lacking. I was fucking unbelievably hopeless coming into college, as in hadn't kissed a girl until my senior spring of high school (!!!) and didn't lose my virginity until spring my freshman year of college, and now I'm coming out of university with a double digit body count (11) and a decent amount of sexual experience from long term fwb's and stuff like that SO I know I have a certain baseline level of pickup ability but I still have a VERY VERY VERY long ways to go until I'm anything approaching a natural player. Part of me still has that base dread, of rejection, of looking like a fool, of just fucking up, when it comes to picking up chicks, and my steady low level anxiety on that front, I think, is at a high-enough baseline level that when I feel okay about my "pull" because I'm having consistent sex with a solid girl I just can't muster up the urgency and self-hatred (ie "you fucking pussy you aint got laid in two months you gotta fucking APPROACH") to get myself out there.

That was a little rambling, I hope it basically made sense. I can clarify if need be.

Quote:

Spinning plates is related to game fatigue, once your sexual desires are met, you just don't give much a fuck about girls.

Having a main gf can be boring so guys go out for side action and spin those plates as side bitches.

If you don't have a main girl, sometimes spinning plates can get messy, especially in the 3-5 range if you don't know what you're doing.

You bring up morality and pointing towards monogamy - that's totally natural and respectable.

Just keep in mind you need to understand game principles, understand how women work, and apply that to your life.

Some guys just want a few girls to fuck, some guys just want one legit girl to fuck all the time.

ALL of the outcome of your game depends on YOU - in the end you're the one in charge of your lifestyle.

Yeah these are all great points. I mean it is the alpha move to cheat on your girlfriend; all my buddies growing up and in college who had LTR's with sexy bitches were running around on them. At some level you have to assume girls are looking for that. I'm not sure it's right for me - I kind've want to try and do the right thing when I finally get in a real boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, but maybe that's naive and maybe that's the chump move.

W/r/t understanding game principles, yeah I get where you're coming from but man I've done a shit ton of pua reading, ton of roosh, ton of roissy, even that cuck mark manson along with a bunch of other people. I honestly think I just need to get some more real success with girls under my belt, get just an even broader range of experience and learning and also, and this is a huge hope of mine, that as I move into full manhood over the next few years (I graduated college last month) a lot of the neuroticisms, insecurities, and self-destructive personal tendencies I acquired (largely) through my pretty miserable, unstable, and at-times abusive childhood. That was kind've heady, but like I still think I carry with me some bad habits I had to acquire as coping mechanisms (Eg needing to validate myself to other people, my burning self hatred, certain feminine social behaviors I picked up from being raised by women) through the trauma of my early childhood. I need to (and I've made so much progress over the past three or so years) fully cast off a lot of my maladaptive social behaviors, rather than learn more about evo-psych implications for mating behaviors and conversation hacks with girls and so on. That, I figure, will only come as I move further and further beyond my childhood.

Yeah and in terms of what I want, once I hit 10 notches (I get that that's nothing to write home about by any means, but for me, someone whose been racked with insecurity and self-contempt over my late start and lack of success with women for years and years, getting that 10th girl into bed was a definite moment of "ok, exhale, you are no longer ridiculously sexually inexperienced. You can honestly tell normal guys what your body count is without feeling like some sort of autistic sperg") I definitely felt my priorities shift towards getting in my first real "girlfriend/boyfriend" LTR. I've had some intense "flings" with some high quality girls when circumstances brought us together for a couple weeks and then I've had long term FWB relationships with lesser quality pussy that I could have but choose not to transition into a real relationship, and a lot of stuff in between, but I've never had an actual girlfriend, and (to be honest) I'm incredibly embarrassed about that, worried that it's really restricting my knowledge and understanding of the fairer sex, and makes me look like a fucking loser to friends and family. Furthermore I really want to try having something a lot more than sex with a girl, because I feel like there's a whole other aspect to the erotic than what I've experienced thus far. Finally, I come from an utterly broken home, so I have this just burning desire to be married and have a family so that I can experience something I never got to as a child (and as a result...may have fetishized somewhat).

All that being said, I feel like being surrounded by pussy all the time and having that smell of "this dude fucks" on me is soooo critical in landing a quality girl for a LTR, so...looks like I better learn to spin some plates. Thanks for the advice bro and I hope you weren't too perturbed by my text burst here. I'm applying to law schools rn so I'm just hopped tf up on addy.

(06-28-2018 05:32 PM)True Balla Wrote:  

I would say I'm of a similar way. However, I take your stance a tad bit further. The main girl requires attention, being taken out, and all of that too. I don't provide that, and just do basic texting, netflix, and chilling. That will get boring for them sooner or later, so I am always on the prowl for new plates as well. However, unlike you I do it the lazy way. I just reel them in online and keep a constant 3-5 knowing they'll all fall off eventually one by one when they get bored of Netflix and chill (which I really enjoy).

Mmmm so dude I'm reading this and honestly I think your game abilities are a couple steps ahead of mine. I have definitely never had 4 or 5 girls on my hook up roster, and could honestly count on one hand (actually, one finger) the amount of times I've had three girls I've been fucking. Shit bro, to be real there's only been a handful of weeks in my life where I've known I have access to two pretty certain sources of pussy. Hahahaha I'm a big tinder guy too, for better or worse, and I'd say I've reeled in just under 50% of my total lays via that site or bumble. I gotta get some pointers from you man, I'd love to have three girls on rotation.

[RatInTheWoods]

I've never found spinning plates to be a main focus of mine, it happens more because of circumstance than effort and will for me.

I'm like you, one good LTR is enough for me, I can't be bothered with the time, effort and bullshit (and morality) of chasing and having side tail.

If my LTR doesn't take care of business and leaves me with the need to chase side tail, then I go find a better LTR.

You still have to maintain frame "as though" you were chasing tail or could at a moments notice to keep the LTRS interest.

Some dudes are just obsessed with stange pussy, but at the end of the day its just a fold of skin and not really worthy of 40% of your free time....

[kaotic]

Maistre, you're slightly overdosing on red pills and readings to be honest.

You need to peel that back a bit.

EDIT: You'll realize there's paper tigers, all talk no walk, there are theories, but put in practice show different results.

Be weary when reading alot of game blogs, some guys go down a dark path where they don't feel good enough or think they don't have enough game, or never enough.

I'm here to tell you everyone's experience will vary but positive things will come of it, you just need to get the experiences from it.

It's not alpha nor beta to cheat or not, people see things like this in black and white and it doesn't work that way.

You aren't a pussy to fuck just one girl and not worry about others, you're way too into your own head.

At least you admit your childhood issues and how they are carrying a burden even in your current life.


I'll tell you this, there's guys with more fucked up lives than you can possibly imagine who forgave their past, forgave themselves, loved themselves, and became great men.

I'm glad you're working on your issues, and you'll get through them.

Brother let me tell you something I've worked on, self love.

You need to STOP worry about your projected image to others, you need to find your true self, you're still figure that out, hell I still am.

The less you give a fuck about what other things and the more you love yourself, the better you'll be off.


You keep going back to a broken home, the question is, will you escape it?

Will you let it continue to be the anchor that holds you down? Or will you move on from it and let it be the wind in your sails taking you towards the horizon?


Here's something to think about your "this dude fucks" thought process - sure yeah preselection is there BUT:

What if the quality girl you want is turned off or disgusted by that "this dude fucks" aura?

Some food for thought.


Absolutely keep learning game, start healing from your past wounds, keep gaming girls, if you feel like banging 1 girl cool, if you feel like banging a bunch cool, game is always changing, and you're always changing also.

[Davis]

There's absolutely nothing wrong to have a feminine, submissive LTR main gal, who you enjoy screwing and vice-versa. In fact, congratulations if you have found such a girl.

Many good players (with 100+ notch counts) struggle to even find such a girl. And it's inevitable that you will encounter "player fatigue" after many months or years of dating, closing many girls, and end up marrying (eg: Neil Strauss, MikeCF, Hugh Hefner), having a permanent girl (Mystery) or feeling burnt out or empty and tired.

Historically, most emperors, kings and people of status in patrilineal societies are predisposed to having a main woman, a few favorite consorts and a harem of mistresses. Morality aside, it's just how most men are wired. But the point stands that you need some permanence (a few wives and/or consort) or anchor to your life, otherwise you will feel empty.

Yes, divorce laws are terrible, and most women do not make good LTRs, but tell me, if you are offered a chance to wife up with a beautiful, feminine, submissive girl who loves to cook, takes care of you, fucks you, would you not want to settle down and have kids with her?

As has been mentioned before, very few men are wired to be lifelong "hardcore players". It is fine to chase notches (in your 20s) or early in your gaming career, but once you have reached a stage, where it feels like a slog, that's when it's time to take a step back, and re-evaluate yourself.

Life is about seeking a balance, ultimately chasing girls is a drain on your time and energy. It's much healthier to see it as a "hobby" or a past-time rather than an achievement. And ultimately, having 100+ notch counts does not feel fulfilling, since all that remains are photos, and past memories.

(06-28-2018 06:34 PM)Maistre Wrote:  

I honestly think I just need to get some more real success with girls under my belt, get just an even broader range of experience and learning and also, and this is a huge hope of mine, that as I move into full manhood over the next few years (I graduated college last month) a lot of the neuroticisms, insecurities, and self-destructive personal tendencies I acquired (largely) through my pretty miserable, unstable, and at-times abusive childhood. That was kind've heady, but like I still think I carry with me some bad habits I had to acquire as coping mechanisms (Eg needing to validate myself to other people, my burning self hatred, certain feminine social behaviors I picked up from being raised by women) through the trauma of my early childhood. I need to (and I've made so much progress over the past three or so years) fully cast off a lot of my maladaptive social behaviors, rather than learn more about evo-psych implications for mating behaviors and conversation hacks with girls and so on. That, I figure, will only come as I move further and further beyond my childhood.

Furthermore I really want to try having something a lot more than sex with a girl, because I feel like there's a whole other aspect to the erotic than what I've experienced thus far. Finally, I come from an utterly broken home, so I have this just burning desire to be married and have a family so that I can experience something I never got to as a child (and as a result...may have fetishized somewhat).

I think it's great that you have the self-awareness that having come from a broken family, there is much work to be done. It may be difficult for you to be seeking a LTR at this point, since:

1. If you find a really good girl (ie: submissive, caring, feminine) you would be so ecstatic that you would act like a beta (and so afraid of losing her) that you would eventually lose her.
2. If you find another girl with a similar background with her set of emotional baggage, you would have this great connection (since you would have a similar background) and have great sex with her, (since she is probably volatile as well) but end up in a self-destructive relationship.

You should start working on having a lifestyle where you could be happy without any girls as an external validation. Work on lifting, leading a healthy lifestyle, sleep at least 8 hours a day (this part cannot be over-emphasized since sleep help clears the toxins in your brain), chasing a degree or doing well in your work or career, meet and hang-out with your local RVF crew.

Chase pussies, but don't make it an obsession, rather as a hobby that you can get better at, don't feel bad if you get rejected, since it's a numbers game, treat it like a game, rather than something that you should be great at in order to feel fulfilled. You won't.

Once you feel happy and fulfilled in your life (you will know when you have reached that stage), that is the time when you can look to having a proper LTR.

[ShuaiGe]

(06-28-2018 05:11 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Stop jacking off, we have a no-fap-thread, stop watching porn.

If you don't lift, start doing that, it helps with your test levels and makes you feel good.

All of the above will keep you a horn dog on the chase.

Spinning plates is related to game fatigue, once your sexual desires are met, you just don't give much a fuck about girls.

Having a main gf can be boring so guys go out for side action and spin those plates as side bitches.

If you don't have a main girl, sometimes spinning plates can get messy, especially in the 3-5 range if you don't know what you're doing.

You bring up morality and pointing towards monogamy - that's totally natural and respectable.

Just keep in mind you need to understand game principles, understand how women work, and apply that to your life.

Some guys just want a few girls to fuck, some guys just want one legit girl to fuck all the time.


ALL of the outcome of your game depends on YOU - in the end you're the one in charge of your lifestyle.

Repping you for best in the thread

[ShuaiGe]

OP, You can see how much someone wants something through their actions. When it comes to bring great at something, being content is dangerous. Recognize that. Be proactive and avoid the things that will hinder your drive (stop masturbating, stop making excuses) and be the best version of yourself you can be.

If you really want to be better you have to push to say that you are not content with you are now. What do you really think you're worth?

[Supreme4ever]

I would like to know if the OP lives in a small town. Being in college is a great help to crush high quality. Now that the OP has gotten his degree that would help dramatically with a higher Value job which translates to a more selection of soon. Spinning plates guarantee I am taking care of and not been in emotional tampon. Why drive a moped when you can have a fleet of mercedes-benz's. Sheep get slaughtered. Your future LTR will be banging an alpha if you get to fill and relaxed.

[DonnyGately]

Player/Game fatigue is real. I go back and forth from having 1-2 plates to more and then right back down again, although often different plates...having a main chick and a side chick is frequently the best way to go if you know how to handle it, when the side chick gets boring/clingy/bitchy just next and back to the chase --it's fun and you're never desperate due to the main chick taking care of you.

[JackinMelbourne]

If you don't want to or don't have the energy to do it, then don't. No need to be greedy, see one or two regularly and have fun hunting when you get in a dry spell or when you have the opportunity.

Honestly, some of the guys who go balls deep into the spinning plates thing have a LOT of time to do it, maybe you're short on time and have other priorities.

And don't forget, a lot of guys talk shit and regurgitate internet talk. Don't believe everything that everyone writes 100% of the time. Run your own tests, run your own experiments and do what gives you the results you want for your lifestyle. Maybe you don't really want to be spinning plates 24/7/365... and I guarantee that legit guys also have peaks and dips where they build it up, it comes crashing down and they build it up again or quit but then go on to write about it like as if it's a constant stream.

[Bastard Sword]

Don't attach your personal worth to the number of girls you're currently banging. This is a recipe for serious existential crises and depression down the line.

[godfather dust]

Lift weights, nofap, no booze, no drugs. No shit food.

Don't smoke weed if it makes you introverted either.

[Maistre]

Wow, lot of great content here. I've been stupid busy recently or otherwise I would've replied sooner.

(06-28-2018 07:40 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Maistre, you're slightly overdosing on red pills and readings to be honest.

Oh without a doubt. Sometimes I can't turn it on and just live. To be fair, a lot of what I write is somewhat tongue in cheek. I get that a "red pill" or "pua" or "neomasculine" worldview is just a frame like any other, and there will be persons and situations that are explained perfectly by it, while it fails to adequately describe other phenomena.

Quote:

I'll tell you this, there's guys with more fucked up lives than you can possibly imagine who forgave their past, forgave themselves, loved themselves, and became great men.

This is absolutely true, and I know it. I guess I'm just worried that - at age 22 - my baggage is still fucking with me, and I don't know if I'm going to ever make it stop. Not everyone has a happy ending, you know? I've wondered if I'm just destined, ultimately, for failure and misery. Some people have to be, right?

Quote:

Brother let me tell you something I've worked on, self love.

You need to STOP worry about your projected image to others, you need to find your true self, you're still figure that out, hell I still am.

The less you give a fuck about what other things and the more you love yourself, the better you'll be off.

This is something I struggle with a lot. I have a great deal of self-hatred and related feelings. I don't really know what the way forward here is.

W/r/t my "projected image" and my "true self" I gotta disagree with you there. I think there's no such thing as a "true self," but only the contextually conditioned ways we act. There is no "real me" and no "real you" just in the way there is no "real world," instead there's only the ways we manifest to ourselves and others based on different situations. I'm a radically individual person, always have been always will be. It probably has a lot to do with having no male authority figures or older brothers around to give me a template, and it's one of the few consequences of my lonely childhood that I'm thankful for. For all that, I know that the way I am is just a dynamic outcome of my surroundings.

Quote:

Here's something to think about your "this dude fucks" thought process - sure yeah preselection is there BUT:

What if the quality girl you want is turned off or disgusted by that "this dude fucks" aura?

So this is a fantastic point, and something I need to understand better. I guess my view on this is a little twisted, because I've always viewed my relative lack of "pull" as a hindrance with girls. I don't really even know how I'd go about gaming a girl who felt like this.

(06-29-2018 12:33 PM)Supreme4ever Wrote:  

I would like to know if the OP lives in a small town. Being in college is a great help to crush high quality. Now that the OP has gotten his degree that would help dramatically with a higher Value job which translates to a more selection of soon. Spinning plates guarantee I am taking care of and not been in emotional tampon. Why drive a moped when you can have a fleet of mercedes-benz's. Sheep get slaughtered. Your future LTR will be banging an alpha if you get to fill and relaxed.

So right now I live in a small suburb right outside one of America's biggest cities, as I moved back home after graduation and am here until I decide where to work for the rest of this year. My job situation kinda sucks right now, and I doubt I'm gonna significantly improve (if at all) my Value with any of the (<$50,000) positions I might get. I graduated from a super high-ranking, prestigious school, and did pretty well, but through a combination of my humanities degree, poor planning, and really shitty luck at the end of May I was without a job. I've rebounded, but I've despaired of getting anything truly "cool" or "lucrative." It's looking like I'm either going to move downtown once I start working in the city or I'm going to take a job offer to move to the rural deep south and teach at a private high school in a small town. All this shittiness I can tolerate because I'm planning on attending law school fall 2019, so I've always looked at this year as something of a gap year. Really the shittiest part of it is that there's no way I'm going to make impressive amounts of money until I'm 26, at the absolute earliest, so I'm not going to be able to use my job or wealth to pickup girls for awhile...

(06-30-2018 08:57 PM)Bastard Sword Wrote:  

Don't attach your personal worth to the number of girls you're currently banging. This is a recipe for serious existential crises and depression down the line.

I don't think I am, but in all honesty, my "pull" has always been the weakest, most embarrassing aspect of who I am. I feel like my long-term happiness and success is pretty dependent on getting better with girls.

(06-28-2018 11:03 PM)Davis Wrote:  

There's absolutely nothing wrong to have a feminine, submissive LTR main gal, who you enjoy screwing and vice-versa. In fact, congratulations if you have found such a girl.

I had found one, and it was amazing. Unfortunately, we met during our last semester of college, so as great as it was, we both knew it had an expiration date on it. We're living in different cities, and while I think we're probably going to hook up again (I know she's down), I think there's no real future in us. So I'm essentially back to ground zero lol.

Quote:

Yes, divorce laws are terrible, and most women do not make good LTRs, but tell me, if you are offered a chance to wife up with a beautiful, feminine, submissive girl who loves to cook, takes care of you, fucks you, would you not want to settle down and have kids with her?

This is literally the dream. There is probably nothing I want more than this, to be honest, and I'm scared it will never happen to me.

Quote:

I think it's great that you have the self-awareness that having come from a broken family, there is much work to be done. It may be difficult for you to be seeking a LTR at this point, since:

1. If you find a really good girl (ie: submissive, caring, feminine) you would be so ecstatic that you would act like a beta (and so afraid of losing her) that you would eventually lose her.
2. If you find another girl with a similar background with her set of emotional baggage, you would have this great connection (since you would have a similar background) and have great sex with her, (since she is probably volatile as well) but end up in a self-destructive relationship.

Thank you for putting something into words which I've felt for a long time. I've thought about this a ton: once I actually am in a fantastic relationship with a "marriage-material" girl like this, I'm 100% certain I will fuck it up by falling way too in love with her. Similar stuff has happened to me before on a lesser scale. I'm just not really sure what to do to combat it.

And yes, #2 is definitely on point as well. I guess I'm worried those are the only types of girls who will "get" me, or not be repulsed by the lack of imprinted traditional male familial social behaviors I exhibit.

For all that, don't I need to first screw up a relationship to learn how to really be in one?

Quote:

You should start working on having a lifestyle where you could be happy without any girls as an external validation. Work on lifting, leading a healthy lifestyle, sleep at least 8 hours a day (this part cannot be over-emphasized since sleep help clears the toxins in your brain), chasing a degree or doing well in your work or career, meet and hang-out with your local RVF crew.

Chase pussies, but don't make it an obsession, rather as a hobby that you can get better at, don't feel bad if you get rejected, since it's a numbers game, treat it like a game, rather than something that you should be great at in order to feel fulfilled. You won't.

Once you feel happy and fulfilled in your life (you will know when you have reached that stage), that is the time when you can look to having a proper LTR.

Ok so I understand that this is generally good advice but I just do not feel that it's correct for me. Of course, I would be happy to know why I'm wrong.

The problem is that "having a lifestyle where you could be happy without any girls as an external validation" is the way I've been living for years and years. All throughout high school and college I was, of course with breaks and exceptions, a "success" on all these metrics. I succeeded at athletics and academics, had great friends (essentially all of whom were much better with woman than I was) who did crazy and fun stuff, and had a clear plan for my future. Yet through all of that, I still have never had a serious girlfriend. [If we're going to get really gamey and simplistic with it, don't worry I'm aware how weird this sounds,]: All my life, I've been a success in every major category of personal achievement - except with women.

(So I'm aware of how gay this sounds after writing it but...) I've made a social circle on a different continent, graduated with multiple honors from an elite university, partied like an animal at Miami nightclubs and huge festivals with friends who are more like brothers, captained sports teams, and published writing on major websites - yet I've never had a girlfriend. It seems to me, at least, that I need to seriously change something about my attitude and behavior, not continue the self-improvement cycle indefinitely. I'm very worried that if I keep waiting to search for a LTR until things are perfect with me, it'll never happen. I'm not delusional - I don't think I'm some superior ubermensch or that I'm a perfect catch or anything like that. Obviously not. But holy shit there are A LOT of men with "lifestyles" far inferior to mine in relationships with girls I'd be more than down to be with. Doesn't this indicate that more self-improvement isn't the answer? [/quote]

[Bastard Sword]

If you're in great shape, have good relationships with friends and families, and have killed it in school, you have nothing to worry about. The right girl will come along when she comes along. I got with over thirty women before finding a girl who I actually liked and trusted enough to be in a relationship with. I met her completely randomly, it's not like there's some formula for accomplishing this. And I can still tell you that even with a girlfriend, I have tons of problems in life. I'm not happy with my job, my family back home is a mess, I'm not where I want to be with my fitness, I'm not making as much money as I would like...the list goes on and on. All this despite being fairly successful with women my entire life.

Point I'm making is not to work yourself into a frenzy over not having an LTR...you'll find her when you find her. Until then, enjoy your friends and family, maybe try a new sport, take up a creative venture. Live a meaningful and enjoyable life. An LTR absolutely can contribute to that but it's not the end-all-be-all of life.

[Maistre]

(07-03-2018 01:20 PM)Bastard Sword Wrote:  

If you're in great shape, have good relationships with friends and families, and have killed it in school, you have nothing to worry about.

Hahaha I don't want to comes across like i'm some master of the universe. im tall and strong but could afford to lose 25 lbs., I've got some great friends but little in the way of family, and I graduated with a solid resume.

Quote:

The right girl will come along when she comes along. I got with over thirty women before finding a girl who I actually liked and trusted enough to be in a relationship with. I met her completely randomly, it's not like there's some formula for accomplishing this. And I can still tell you that even with a girlfriend, I have tons of problems in life. I'm not happy with my job, my family back home is a mess, I'm not where I want to be with my fitness, I'm not making as much money as I would like...the list goes on and on. All this despite being fairly successful with women my entire life.

Point I'm making is not to work yourself into a frenzy over not having an LTR...you'll find her when you find her. Until then, enjoy your friends and family, maybe try a new sport, take up a creative venture. Live a meaningful and enjoyable life. An LTR absolutely can contribute to that but it's not the end-all-be-all of life.

Alright so bro yeah I'm totally getting what you're saying. So much of dealing with girls is playing the waiting game, I completely understand that I'll still be a fucking mess with or without a girlfriend (though I think it's fair to say that if you get lucky a good partner can be really good for mental health), and so on. I will object that I'm not in a frenzy, I think my lack of relationship maturity is just something for me that's a constant low-lying source of embarrassment and then sometimes, eg when im high, it gets much more acute and I get down on myself.


That said bro I guess the one thing I'm differing with you on is that it [searching for a long term girl) needs to be more of an active thing than letting it "flow" to you. I think part of this might be my individual case differing from yours, because you wrote you were "fairly successful with women" your "entire life" and that probably leads you to have a more natural experience in the sexual marketplace. Dude I can just say from my personal experience as a guy who was comically bad with girls for so long (I can remember hours spent pouring over the goddamn Bang ebook trying to figure it tf out, one of the things that was really striking from my experience is the extent to which I had to actively pursue pussy, consciously and deliberately modifying my behavior and social interactions to get laid. I suspect it will be the same for me in this case. [/quote]