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People don't think rationally & WHY they think the way they do(my rambling thoughts)
#1

People don't think rationally & WHY they think the way they do(my rambling thoughts)

A common misconception is that people generally think rationally/logically. That is, people think things through, and come to a conclusion after debating with themselves. However from what I've observed and read this seems to clearly be untrue; people almost certainly come to a conclusion first, and reading r/K among other things leads me to believe this conclusion come from biological instinct, and then rationalise why they decided that after the fact. The smarter they are the more sophisticated the rationalisation. A big reason people continue to believe they think logically is I believe they're scared to open themselves up to the possibility they have much less free will than they think.

Texas Arcane actually has a plausible sounding conspiracy theory that Homo Sapiens actually does not think, and the small part of us which does is basically Neanderthal genes.

Roughly speaking, I know this misconception to be untrue, because especially in New Zealand, if I do try to think things through and try to fact-find/come to logical conclusions, especially in social situations, I'd be told I was "overthinking things" or "needed to go with the flow". It would also be considered autistic- and actually, one of the biggest traits about autism is how "hyper-logical" they are. That's what people tell non-autists about how to understand autistic people. But if you think it through it doesn't make sense. How can people be "hyper-logical"? You can't be more logical than logical. The answer is people generally aren't logical and autists are less non-logical.

What lead me to really think about this was rewatching these videos by Veritasium(a popular science youtuber, especially back in the day). If you're not interested in those topics, you don't have to click them, it's roughly what it says on the tin.










In the first video, he explains the flaws of science/physics educational videos. People don't actually learn generally, they watch the videos and it basically cements their preconceived notions. The lesson is you actually have to challenge those misconceptions to further true learning. A conclusion I got from it years ago is that physics in his opinion is particularly counter-intuitive and you have to learn it right to get rid of your misconceptions.

When I rewatched it now I came to a different conclusion; people have flawed notions about everything, it's just physics has a right-or-wrong framework that's really easy to corner people and call people out when they're wrong. Thus, it can give the impression physics is "counter-intuitive". But realistically to me a lot of things are counter-intuitive and people just don't realise it because they haven't been called out on it.

In the second video, he explains at length how scientific studies have major flaws. But the conclusion he gives at 11:08 is really interesting. He says "What gets me is the thought that even trying our best to figure out what's true, using our most sophisticated and rigorous mathematical tools: peer review, and standards of practice, we still get it wrong so often. So how frequently do we delude ourselves when we're not using the scientific method? As flawed as our science is it is far and away more reliable than any other way of knowing we have."

When I watched it originally, I came to the naive conclusion: we don't really know much. However, what's really interesting is Veritasium actually seems relatively logical and tries to fact-find, however his progressive bias is leaking. He spent 10 minutes talking about the major flaws of science and the scientific method for knowing things, yet his conclusion is certainty it's the best method without explaining why. Logically speaking, if you've spent that long disparaging science and not saying a single positive, surely you must be open to the possibility science is not necessarily the best method. Which leads me to believe many people, progressives more so, tend to view science as their religion.

Jordan Peterson and Carl Jung has talked about a "collective unconscious"- that is something everyone knows without needing to learn about it. For instance, a fear of snakes. But also many other Jungian archetypes. I think something like this might be at play for why people think the way they do.

Virtually every progressive over a certain intelligence(ie, 100 IQ) claims to cherish science, rationality, often athiesm, etc. (If they are dumber than that, then they can't really think anyway, so their opinions don't matter) I believe the reason is this. Progressives do not have an "instinct"(which I will describe later), which lets them know things. People in general also don't think logically. Progressives are proven to have lower empathy(ability to understand others/realise their differences in opinion) and lower threat sensitivity/pattern recognition, and they assume everyone is like this also, so for someone like that, it only makes sense to believe in "Science". They also lean more narcissistic and thus delusional, so they cannot easily be persuaded to believe that the science they are believing in is more like a religion, nor that they are illogical. This is compounded by the fact that the loudest anti-science conservatives/people in general are dumb, so it feels like an easy slam dunk.

Conservatives have a deep instinct to value morality, tradition, in-group loyalty, religious values, family values, etc. This seems to be really similar to Carl Jung's collective unconscious. This manifests in middling IQ conservatives to describe their views as "common sense"- although conservatives have higher empathy than progressives, they still don't realise that progressives do not have the same instincts they do. Thus they tend to write off progressives as crazy and/or immoral, which arguably they are, but the point is conservatives imagine progressives have those instincts and ignore them, but it seems more likely they don't have these instincts. I think r/K explains it somewhat- the K selected conservative has a strong evolutionary pressure to have a stronger grip on reality. The "common sense" conservative views I've come to realise are more right than the "rational, scientific" progressive views.

The problem with "common sense" to describe your views is how illogical it is. People who are conservative aren't actually right as such because people aren't logical and don't think things through. They only happen to be right because evo psych reasons, conservatives have greater selection pressure to match reality. Thus, if the "common sense" conservatives are actually wrong, it's so easy for them to be blindsided. This is also relatively apparent in societal shifts- as society shifts more progressive, them being herd animals are also affected, and "common sense" also shifts. However what is right-or-wrong does not shift, so clearly the common sense method has some major flaws.

So what is the way to go about the world? A key thing to remember is that according to r/K is progressives are strongly inclined to, likely subconsciously, lie and deceive you. A lot of common sense conservatives realise this, but aren't smart enough to realise or articulate why.

The other thing is pattern recognition and being able to be cornered if wrong. PUA seems much more accurate than social science, which is a big part I'm a big fan of Roosh and Krauser's work. Redpill views on sexuality beats the media/societal narrative. Alternative health(Paleo, clean eating, intensity training, weights) has been years/decades ahead of the mainstream. Even many conspiracy theories have been proven to be true(of course, no credit is given to them- before it's proven the conspiracy theorists are thought to be crazy, after it's proven then people would say "everyone knew that"). So think clearly and learn to try and recognise patterns. And try to think things logically and ask why things are the way they are.
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#2

People don't think rationally & WHY they think the way they do(my rambling thoughts)

Most people are still apes. There are a few thinking people, 10% tops, probably less. The rest are monkeys who just appear human because they fallow the "monkey see - monkey do" formula of behavior and imitate the successful people. That is the greater truth about humanity.

A human being has to be thought how to think. This is possible only in nationalistic state where the empowerment of individual as the propagator of his tribes is valued. Under globalist paradigm the masses need to be dumbed down as much as possible, with exception of them being able to do plumbing and coding to maintain the system. Therefore science is praised but morals, faith and philosophy are shunned in this age.
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#3

People don't think rationally & WHY they think the way they do(my rambling thoughts)

The whole rational versus emotional distinction is problematic. Rationality was at best developed to serve our emotional interests. When you analyze the "rational choices" of people, they are always aimed at maximizing a certain emotional state and minimizing another emotional state. The problem herein is the assumption that there can be a universal rationality. Perhaps for monetary issues, which are binary and measurable, but even there the case remains: each individual is unique. Not per se in the sense of total originality, but still unique given the combination of archetypes and drives within the individual. Imagine the subtle difference between a Texan conservative and an Albertan conservative: both are conservatives in archetype, but still dissimilar.

It's a dead horse, but it's true: what's good for one person may not necessarily be good for another person. That's why you can't have a universal rationality. Maybe, a teenager running away from home really needs that crystal meth bender to learn a valuable lesson and learn their limits. Even though rationally it's bodily sabotage. Maybe a "r" selected really needs to live a life that is optimized for being short-term: it's in their nature.

Another example. Take Jung and the MBTI personality type indicator that was based on his ideas. A given ENTP is going to need to make completely different "rational" choices than an ISFJ. The ENTP wants novelty and entrepreneurship, therefore starting a company despite 90% failure rate is "rational". The ISFJ however needs a place with order and rules, where they can take a stable and predictable salary job growing an average 0.5% in earnings per year, because it's a company with values they find important. Within each individual, there are completely different impulses, archetypes, patterns, circumstances, values and whatever else at play, each creating a different value for the variable of "what is rational for ME".

I try to watch out for "Conservatives are ABC" and "Progressives are DEF" narratives. At the end I suspect it's a Hegelian Dialectic (a false dichotomy to trigger the psychological us vs. them pattern and distract you from the fact your food is poison, your purchasing power hasn't grown since 1975, your money has no intrinsic value, your pension is not yours, the news is owned by everyone except yourbestinterestinc etc). In a sense, putting any single human being into a denomination of "C" or "P" is commodifying and dehumanizing. It stifles the intrinsic spiritual value of a person, strips them of their spiritual journey and free will autonomy, to just be another one of "them" (THEOTHER). Not to say I don't personally prefer conservative values - it's true. But I regret wasting 3 years of life investing in the News Cycle and political theory, just so you can feel completely separate from 50% of the population.

In response to Mage, definitely agree globalist education is producing a monoculture of atrophied prefrontal cortexes and severed corpus callosi. It's almost as if the strategy is simply to stunt the development of independent thinking by simply dissuading it's use. I probably spent $40,000 in all on my "higher education" and never got a single essay question asking ME to think of my OWN explanations for reality, question existing reality theories or create my own theoretical structure.
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#4

People don't think rationally & WHY they think the way they do(my rambling thoughts)

Quote: (06-26-2018 01:39 AM)Mage Wrote:  

Most people are still apes. There are a few thinking people, 10% tops, probably less. The rest are monkeys who just appear human because they fallow the "monkey see - monkey do" formula of behavior and imitate the successful people. That is the greater truth about humanity.

A human being has to be thought how to think. This is possible only in nationalistic state where the empowerment of individual as the propagator of his tribes is valued. Under globalist paradigm the masses need to be dumbed down as much as possible, with exception of them being able to do plumbing and coding to maintain the system. Therefore science is praised but morals, faith and philosophy are shunned in this age.

Mage, we've had our disagreements, but this deserves ...

[Image: potd.gif]
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#5

People don't think rationally & WHY they think the way they do(my rambling thoughts)

Quote: (06-26-2018 03:38 AM)dtpilgrim Wrote:  

The whole rational versus emotional distinction is problematic. Rationality was at best developed to serve our emotional interests. When you analyze the "rational choices" of people, they are always aimed at maximizing a certain emotional state and minimizing another emotional state. The problem herein is the assumption that there can be a universal rationality.

By logical I mean. You observe, think, then come to conclusions. But this is wrong, people almost always instinctually come to a conclusion and then rationalise it.

I do think it's important not to cast aside people too readily. However there are way too many examples of progressive behavior, especially political, manifesting in betrayal of moderates/conservatives. If people don't realise this, it would keep happening over and over. If anything all progressive behavior/mentality needs to be called out and shamed for the betterment of everyone. Progressives don't actually seem to be happier if they get what they want as they agitate to more and more extreme positions.
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#6

People don't think rationally & WHY they think the way they do(my rambling thoughts)

People see the world as they want to see it, either in a positive or negative light. They then spin the facts to support this narrative. This is what politics/ideology/morality is. I recognize it even when I do it myself. Most are unwilling to step back and analyze their own cognitive biases. They just speak as if their position is the infallible truth and everyone else is misguided. Team X vs. team Y. Tribalism.
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#7

People don't think rationally & WHY they think the way they do(my rambling thoughts)

Quote: (06-27-2018 05:30 PM)questor70 Wrote:  

Most are unwilling to step back and analyze their own cognitive biases.

I think a lot of people secretly do, they just toe the line regardless because they're looking out for their best interests.
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#8

People don't think rationally & WHY they think the way they do(my rambling thoughts)

Stumbling on Happiness


This book changed my life.

Why the things that you think will make you happy, will not.


In this brilliant, witty, and accessible book, renowned Harvard psychologist Daniel Gilbert describes the foibles of imagination and illusions of foresight that cause each of us to misconceive our tomorrows and misestimate our satisfactions. With penetrating insight and sparkling prose, Gilbert explains why we seem to know so little about the hearts and minds of the people we are about to become.


Why will sighted people pay more to avoid going blind than blind people will pay to regain their sight?

• Why do dining companions insist on ordering different meals instead of getting what they really want?

• Why do pigeons seem to have such excellent aim; why can’t we remember one song while listening to another; and why does the line at the grocery store always slow down the moment we join it?
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#9

People don't think rationally & WHY they think the way they do(my rambling thoughts)

Quote: (06-30-2018 04:35 AM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

Why will sighted people pay more to avoid going blind than blind people will pay to regain their sight?

• Why do dining companions insist on ordering different meals instead of getting what they really want?

• Why do pigeons seem to have such excellent aim; why can’t we remember one song while listening to another; and why does the line at the grocery store always slow down the moment we join it?

Afaik the answers to these questions seem to be:

-Sighted people rely far more on their sight and blind people are used to being blind.

-If something sucks and/or isn't what you guys like, then different meals= diversity because of the option to share.

-You don't notice all the times the pigeons miss; low concentration/attention span; you spend more time in a slow line than a fast one
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#10

People don't think rationally & WHY they think the way they do(my rambling thoughts)

Quote: (06-30-2018 04:35 AM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

Stumbling on Happiness


This book changed my life.

Why the things that you think will make you happy, will not.


In this brilliant, witty, and accessible book, renowned Harvard psychologist Daniel Gilbert describes the foibles of imagination and illusions of foresight that cause each of us to misconceive our tomorrows and misestimate our satisfactions. With penetrating insight and sparkling prose, Gilbert explains why we seem to know so little about the hearts and minds of the people we are about to become.


Why will sighted people pay more to avoid going blind than blind people will pay to regain their sight?

• Why do dining companions insist on ordering different meals instead of getting what they really want?

• Why do pigeons seem to have such excellent aim; why can’t we remember one song while listening to another; and why does the line at the grocery store always slow down the moment we join it?

1. People are more attuned to loss than gain.
2. People's need to appear unique is more important to them than a nice meal.
3. Agree with TheCatalyst on the pigeons.
4. No idea why on the song thing.
5. Grocery lines slow down because I am cursed.

“The greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents.”

Carl Jung
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#11

People don't think rationally & WHY they think the way they do(my rambling thoughts)

The main thing this book destroys is that what you think will make you happy often does the opposite.

It convinced me that we all have no clue how to be happy, and that we will be happy anyway.

The section on the conjoined twins blew my mind.

We are not evolved/equipped to imagine how we will feel in the future.
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#12

People don't think rationally & WHY they think the way they do(my rambling thoughts)

"Happiness" has always been a lie. Another language problem for the un-wise.
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#13

People don't think rationally & WHY they think the way they do(my rambling thoughts)

https://www.anonymousconservative.com/bl...ng-mosque/

Quote:Quote:

The most amazing thing about r/K is how uncomfortable being stuck in the wrong environment for your psychology is, regardless of logic. The truth is, if resources were going to be free forever, the single best way to assure your genes would pass to the next generation would be to act like a rabbit. If your only goal was to pass your genes forward, you should welcome in the Muslims, and avoid any fighting and conflict as much as possible, while trying to impregnate their women on the sly. Likewise, women in r-selection are best served seeking out a guy like that. Standing up to the Muslims, trying to repel them, being willing to fight is actually bad for passing your genes forward.

And yet, even if times were completely r, and we were wealthy beyond imagination, we would have trouble with that. We’d want to fight, we’d want to secure our environment, and we’d be willing to die in the process.

Now you look at liberals today, and they are as illogical today as we would be in a time of r. We are clearly heading into K-selection, where resources are going to be tight. Conflict will be unavoidable. They should be seeking safety by keeping threats at bay. And yet, even with all that, the liberals need to import the foreigners and avoid any conflict with pre-emptive appeasement. Even propose a temporary pause, and they will begin to have conniption fits.

Scott Adams is right. We are not designed to see reality. We are designed for r or K-selection. It just happens that occasionally our design matches our environment, at which point we happen to be logical and appear to be operating as if we see reality.

It will mean we K-strategists are going to feel a lot better very soon.
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#14

People don't think rationally & WHY they think the way they do(my rambling thoughts)

Yep most folk function at a base instinct level.
Rarely do folk function at a higher intellectual level.

So along with Tex Arcane's writings.
Couple that base instinct functional level with a tendency of Homo-Sapiens to have a default mode of serf if not outright slave & you have the perfect proles for the Piep Piper...
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