[Delta]

Thread title is pretty self-explanatory. Just about everything on here is geared toward racking up notches via degenerate sluts. If that's your thing, hey, totally cool, but it's not for everyone. If you were more concerned with quality and relationship potential, how would you primarily go about meeting women?

Also, while undoubtedly cities>suburbs in terms of getting laid, does that hold true for meeting quality women as well? Obviously cities have more options, hotter girls, more favorable ratios, and more opportunities to meet people, but city girls also tend to be more slutty and less traditional.

Assume moving abroad isn't an option.

[ShuaiGe]

Just asking for clarification, what do you mean by quality?

what's the highest notch count a woman can have before you consider her as being of low value? Have you ever dated a virgin? It's not the best.

An 18 year old girl who's a virgin is fine. A 25 year old woman who's still a virgin probably has a very low appetite for sex which is in my opinion not a good thing. Could you be in a long-term relationship with a girl who has a low appetite for sex?

Also, is your own notch count high or low? If it's low then maybe your view of high notch women stems from insecurity. I admit I'm not looking a long term relationship but I also think you shouldn't see all women who enjoy having sex as low value.

[Delta]

I'm not in the "no hymen no diamond" camp. Those dudes are the male version of cat ladies, holding the opposite sex to unrealistic standards they themselves can't provide the equivalent of.

That said, it shouldn't be at all controversial that a woman's enthusiasm, respect, and loyalty toward you are VERY negatively correlated with her notch count. Girls that are seasoned veterans of Tinder or of the bar scene are not going to make good wives, period. And it's obvious from the get-go. They are not likable individuals at all.

When I say "quality," I mean girls who are young (mid-20's at most), vibrant, fit, have a good head on their shoulders, and haven't had their pair-bonding mechanism fucked out of them by men who were obviously out of their league. What notch count does that typically correspond to? I'd estimate that anything north of 3-4 is heading for serious trouble.

Needless to say, such girls are a TINY minority on swiping apps or at the club.

[ball dont lie]

Mormons.

[Redcloud]

Are you really asking girls how many guys they've fucked? They're going to lie to you. Regardless, 3-4 notches is extremely low for the vast majority of women in the U.S.

If you're insecure about her notch count, then you need to get yours up and that insecurity will go away.

Outside of that, I've found that if a girl has been in a long term relationships (3+ years), then it's an indicator that she's likely a higher quality girl. Primarily, because she wasn't fucking guys during that time period. Secondarily, because she's demonstrated an ability to pair bond, stay committed, and keep a man happy. Those are rare qualities for your average Tinder girl.

So, consider reducing your expectations re: notch count, and date girls until you've been able to see how girls in previous LTR's compare to those that haven't ever been in one.

[Noir]

(06-12-2018 07:28 PM)Delta Wrote:  

Just about everything on here is geared toward racking up notches via degenerate sluts.

You must be living under a rock because that's hardly the case, there's a Family forum specifically for finding 'the one' and honing a mindset toward that.

"You can't eat filet mignon every night, you gotta eat a cheeseburger every now and then"

It will surprise you but degen sluts aren't even the easiest. They play the most games because they're in the game 24/7.

(06-13-2018 12:34 AM)Delta Wrote:  

When I say "quality," I mean girls who are young (mid-20's at most), vibrant, fit, have a good head on their shoulders, and haven't had their pair-bonding mechanism fucked out of them by men who were obviously out of their league. What notch count does that typically correspond to? I'd estimate that anything north of 3-4 is heading for serious trouble.

Needless to say, such girls are a TINY minority on swiping apps or at the club.

Let's scratch the surface.

Women and girls are interchangeable in this post but are not the same thing.

re: quality

You ain't really going to find a 'quality' girl under 25. This is controversial on this forum but really, you will find a hot, beautiful woman who is a slab of rock.

That rock is waiting for Michelangelo (you) to come and chisel it in to a beautiful sculpture.

That's the under 25s for you. They're raw, full of potential but you need to be a quality guy to direct that chisel and bring out the best in them.

I wrote in depth about LTRs (link at the end of this post) and how to find a quality woman. It starts with yourself.

Figure out what constitutes a quality woman but don't borrow standards from the forum or your friends.


re: watering holes

Probability-wise, you will meet more 'down to earth' girls outside of Tinder and clubs. That being said, I have met some absolute quality girls in clubs, who happened to be part of a hen party or just out with their friends for a special occasion. Not a weekly thing. I met a beautiful 26 year old off Tinder, just out of a relationship, last week.

Your usual places apply; grocery stores, malls, gym, yoga clubs, dinner clubs, meetup.com events, dog training lessons; the list goes on and on and on.

Abstain from going to these places with expectations though because it's obvious, insincere and (surprise) chicks will test you like a motherfucker.

I discussed this with another RVF member over a call, most women who are high quality are taken and they only have a 1-3 month time window where they are single before getting into another relationship.

Figure out where they congregate.

Surprise, a lot of them are out clubbing or being social because that was absent in their relationship. Being able to be out and hit on by men, they crave it.

Such girls have a 'track record' of pair bonding (as per poster above) but they also come in with their own baggage and hardwiring; it's a double edged sword.

If you're worried about notch counts, then that's an issue.

If it turns you off, that's natural, in the start.

Surely you have bigger things to worry about?

Surely, to attract a high quality woman, you need to be high quality yourself, that you are not insecure?

Figure out your standards and be honest about them; don't let them form through insecurity.

This shit sounds like The Secret but if you are top 1% of men (swagger, confidence, looks, bankroll, network, VIBE) then these women will seek you out, find you.

I will go to a conference or a meeting and an attractive woman will usually come and sit next to me. Dinner clubs, the same. Bars? Same shit. Coffee shop? Yep, they're perimetering.

There's passive and active.

You're focusing on the active and that's good but don't be so anal about what constitutes a high quality woman.

A high quality woman appears when you are high quality. I know plenty of guys who don't have game with women but they have their shit in order and know what they want. Their mission is beyond the woman. Guys are doing it this way, without 'game' per se.

Notches and all that jazz is meaningless, you're just stressing over shit that's happened and not part of your master plan.

Screen accordingly and your barometer is your barometer but be realistic and accept that most women over 21 have notch counts of at least 8.

Stop worrying about where to meet quality women.
Stop going to the same places as it seems you're unhappy there.
Stop having expectations of women where you go to places (outcome dependence).

Start increasing your value and notice them become more available and increase in numbers.
Start going to various places or opening girls 24/7.
Start building your social circle and fuck many more girls so that their notch count is insignificant.

A lot of this shit is luck and probability. You need to have your timing down, be game-aware enough to recognize the opportunity and to have a killer instinct to lock down a quality girl when the time comes.

Most guys view this shit through survivorship bias due to some guys striking out early on with girls who ended up being good.

Credit to them as well, they ended up being the Michelangelo to the rock.

Women reach their potential with a high quality man so focus on that shit instead.


LTR post and thread

[Hypno]

Tucker Max wrote a book called Mate where he talks about this. I didn't read it, but he was on a podcast that I like (James Altucher).

He said volunteering is a good way to meet a quality woman. Also, the type of thing you volunteer for can tend to filter people towards your interests. For example, you are going to meet animal lovers at the humane society, and outdoorsy types at the save-the-river event.

He also had some ideas about how to target someone so they are a good match for you. It sounds like you are narrowing the field but he explained that it actually led to better results, sort of like telling a real estate agent exactly what you want so you don't waste time looking at things that are compromises.

I didn't read the book but the volunteering idea makes a lot of sense.

[droughtmeat]

You have to get very very lucky to find a girl that has had 3-4 guys AND still wants to have a lot of sex with YOU, because...well...you're the only really special guy she has met so far, right?

The guys I know, who have high quality girls, are primarily dudes who got laid a lot and had options and thus could easily distinguish a keeper from another random chick. I also know others, who have girls with a lot of potential, however, given that the men themselves still have confidence issues and are nowhere near fully developed, those chicks still ended up becoming extremely dominant and emotionally abusive.

Where to look? Try daygame all over the world

[Fortis]

Get off tinder and OKCUPID and crunch some numbers in person.

[astro]

Think about what your ideal girl would be doing. Studying in the library? Taking dance classes? Volunteering at a non profit? Fashion? Getting plastered in a pool hall? A shut in who rarely goes out except to run errands? Artsy at museums?

Once you’ve thought about that, it might be easier to then think where you’d find them.

[Supreme4ever]

Is it me or does the o p sound like a beta. A girl with a notch count of 2-3 is common in church groups and very traditional houses. But even then that's like finding a needle in a haystack. Noir is spot-on by saying women will seek hvm in which they will seek to mold themselves accordingly and most women are looking for LTR so they will screen accordingly. I

[Off The Reservation]

cooking classes

[kuqezi]

Quote:

A high quality woman appears when you are high quality. I know plenty of guys who don't have game with women but they have their shit in order and know what they want. Their mission is beyond the woman. Guys are doing it this way, without 'game' per se.

Notches and all that jazz is meaningless, you're just stressing over shit that's happened and not part of your master plan.

Screen accordingly and your barometer is your barometer but be realistic and accept that most women over 21 have notch counts of at least 8.

Stop worrying about where to meet quality women.
Stop going to the same places as it seems you're unhappy there.
Stop having expectations of women where you go to places (outcome dependence).

Start increasing your value and notice them become more available and increase in numbers.
Start going to various places or opening girls 24/7.
Start building your social circle and fuck many more girls so that their notch count is insignificant.

GOLD from Noir!

[birthday cat]

I agree with Noir and suggest that you thoroughly read the post he linked to.

LTR-quality girls are scarce therefore it's not just about finding them. Some of the other and possibly more difficult aspects are:

--- Why should she be interested in you when she is in high demand and has many other options?

You should probably answer this question before you think too much about where to find the higher quality girls.

--- Why should she join a relationship with you when she is in high demand and has many other options?

I was recently dating a great girl who was LTR-quality although our relationship didn't make sense in the long term for other reasons. I can assure you that most game tactics and things like faking abundance mentality have essentially no affect on a high quality girl like her wanting to treat you well and be in a long relationship with you. This girl thought of me as someone that was infinitely more interesting than the other men she had dated. She appreciated the things I taught her about life which came from my hobbies and interests that were hobbies and interests that I am passionate about, i.e. not things I'm doing just to meet girls. She appreciated that I knew how to treat her well in a masculine way. I'm not saying these are the specific things you need in every situation but they are examples of the types of things you need to hold down a quality girl that can be quite different from a lot of the game concepts that guys talk about for the purpose of getting laid easily.

--- Are you willing to avoid and next other girls in order to pursue the LTR-quality girls?

This might mean going without girls and sex (or multiple girls and sex) so you have time to pursue better options. Sometimes it is a big challenge for me. I might be dating a few girls who are pretty good but not LTR-quality and it is a huge step outside of the comfort zone to next one or two of those girls to pursue something better but there is only so much time in a day or week or month and it will take time to find a high quality girl.

[idane]

This might be interesting for you:

thread-50002.html
thread-58393.html

[Razor Beast]

(06-13-2018 01:23 AM)Redcloud Wrote:  

Are you really asking girls how many guys they've fucked? They're going to lie to you. Regardless, 3-4 notches is extremely low for the vast majority of women in the U.S.

If you're insecure about her notch count, then you need to get yours up and that insecurity will go away.

Outside of that, I've found that if a girl has been in a long term relationships (3+ years), then it's an indicator that she's likely a higher quality girl. Primarily, because she wasn't fucking guys during that time period. Secondarily, because she's demonstrated an ability to pair bond, stay committed, and keep a man happy. Those are rare qualities for your average Tinder girl.

So, consider reducing your expectations re: notch count, and date girls until you've been able to see how girls in previous LTR's compare to those that haven't ever been in one.

How in the world does this post have so many likes? This reeks of feminist inspired shaming and "man up" type language. LTR a tinder girl? Are you serious? 95% chance they are alpha widowed unless you get them right as they join for the first time or they are just on there for attention. As far as I'm concerned, none of these women are worth shit to me until they prove they are worthy of LTR treatment in a number of different ways. I don't care how hot they are. Most guys aren't interested in long term dating with prospectively looking at wifing up a promiscuous alpha widowed woman. But if that's your thing hey, have at it. They are all yours. I don't know why else someone would get in a LTR unless they saw marriage and family as an endgame and were prospecting for someone worthy. This thread has nothing to do with the mentality you need when running standard game for casual lays or mini relationships which seems to be what you were trying to emphasize here. You seem black pilled by going into a spiel about notch counts. I'm not about to go NAWALT but not all women have grown up in an environment that has completely corrupted them, but admittedly most have at least in the West. They are all vulnerable to the same behaviors but not all have succumbed to pressures for a variety of reasons if you can get them around 18-22. I don't think anyone is going to dump how they would go about extensively screening women for a LTR/marriage and what niches they would target with how competitive things are in the West. This thread might have been better suited for the marriage forum where it wouldn't get dominated by guys who are still in the 'fuck anything that moves' phase of their life.

[Dragan]

Church, girls that regularly attend church weekly. And I'm not talking about prosperity gospel churches, I'm talking about real conservative churches; your pick of denomination that is conservative.

Also, volunteering. The girls that volunteer are much less likely to be narcissists than your average iphone addicted girl.

[Delta]

I appreciate the responses so far. Just to clear up a couple things:

I never intended to have this thread be about notch count. In fact, I wasn't even the one who initially brought it up. No, I do not ask girls what their notch count is, nor do I need to. A quality girl is something I know when I spot. It's just plainly obvious to me which girls "get it" and which do not, and I tend to assume those good ones are not raging sluts. I could be wrong about that though, who knows.

For those who say that building up your own value is paramount, I agree whole-heartedly, but that is not my issue. A little personal background: My fitness and finances are both probably top 10%. I dress and groom neatly. I'm even fairly tall (although I lack tattoos and big dogs). I have no confidence issues, and I do fine holding conversations with people who are intelligent. I've landed quality girls in the past, but mostly via online, which is a tedious, miserable slog that just feels like it's getting worse and worse. My failure is, without a doubt, in going out and effectively marketing myself to the right types of women. I just don't know the best way to go about it. So I end up swiping away at the masses of low-grade women with hyper-inflated egos, hoping for yet another miracle.

So while I don't dispute the merit of building yourself up first, for my own situation, "where to look for quality girls" is actually the heart of the issue. I'm also considering a move to the city to make it easier to meet people, but the consensus around here of "city girls are sluts who are not LTR worthy" gives me pause. So I was especially wondering if anyone has had success finding good girls in a city environment.

[Hypno]

Get out and build your social circle. I just got a job interview for a C level job because someone knew I volunteered with a youth sports league. They knew I was selfless, a leader, I get something done person, just by observing me in the community. Stuff like this compounds over time, but it eventually pays dividends.

Talk to everyone you meet. The receptionist at your company, the security guard, the person next to you on the plane or Subway. Make it a habit to be social and open people. It’s a skill, and you’ll get better at it over time. When you finally meet that woman who is worthy of an LTR, you won’t get sweaty palms when you go to open her. In fact, she might find a way to open you because you know everyone, the security guard, the guy in accounting, etc.

[BadKing]

Social circle is everything in terms of finding a quality girl. You need to make friends with people of your intellectual and financial class, disregarding age.

If you’re in the top 10% then start playing golf, join a cigar club, a yacht club etc.

Build strong relationships with your business partners.

Quality girls come when you deserve it.

[Redcloud]

(06-13-2018 04:11 PM)Razor Beast Wrote:  

How in the world does this post have so many likes? This reeks of feminist inspired shaming and "man up" type language. LTR a tinder girl? Are you serious?

Probably because other members actually read what I wrote before responding. You could have saved yourself a breathless tirade if you slowed down a little. Nobody said to LTR a tinder girl except for you.

(06-13-2018 04:11 PM)Razor Beast Wrote:  

by guys who are still in the 'fuck anything that moves' phase of their life.

Do you mean human nature? Men evolved to spread their seed to as many women as possible. That's the point of life; marriage is simply a social construct we invented later. I've got no problems with guys pursuing marriage, but don't shit on men who are doing what they were built to do.

(06-13-2018 05:35 PM)Delta Wrote:  

A quality girl is something I know when I spot. It's just plainly obvious to me which girls "get it" and which do not, and I tend to assume those good ones are not raging sluts.

I'm not picking on you here, but, you're probably not as sharp as you think you are in this regard. Especially if you've been out of the dating game, as you stated.

(06-13-2018 05:35 PM)Delta Wrote:  

So I end up swiping away at the masses of low-grade women with hyper-inflated egos, hoping for yet another miracle.

I've been meeting chicks online since 2012. In reality, very few have "hyper-inflated egos," that's just something guys who struggle pulling girls off apps say as an ego defense.

(06-13-2018 05:35 PM)Delta Wrote:  

but the consensus around here of "city girls are sluts who are not LTR worthy" gives me pause. So I was especially wondering if anyone has had success finding good girls in a city environment.

It sounds like you're having some core issues here understanding the nature of women. Promiscuity is hardwired as an evolutionary mechanism for survival of our own species.

Did you know that women are more likely to conceive a child with an adulterous lover than with her very own husband? "Good girls" don't really exist, it's just a marketing fantasy that's been sold to you.

You should read up on some books like Sex At Dawn, The Red Queen, Sperm Wars, Anatomy of Love, etc. Some knowledge on this stuff will save you a lot of stress and heartache in the long run.

[Parlay44]

[HankMoody]

Actually, it's more about where you won't meet quality girls...

- Tinder / Bumble / Seeking Arrangement (some exceptions)
- Bars
- Nightclubs
- Stripclubs
- Liberal political events
- Music festivals

Cold approach pickup is fun, but expect to get what you get.

Places I've found the best LTR girls...

- Church / Bible study (hard because most of them are marred at like 22)
- Meetup.com doing activities you're into, like hiking, camping, real estate, etc.
- Co-working office spaces
- Conservative political events (or local political events that are non-partisan)
- Social circle

[Parlay44]

I hate to be a cynic here but any girl you meet online is the same as any other other girl you meet in real life. Get out of the mindset of good girl vs bad girl. They’re all the same hoes.

The only way to get a good girl is to marry one young. That’s one thing the Muslims have right. They also had that right in biblical times. As soon as she starts bleeding they would marry her off.

It’s nature that decided that women should be physically ready to have kids before they are mentally or financially ready. It creates a need that only a man can provide.

Unfortunately in this day and age that is becoming more of an impossibility.

The best thing you can do is just try to improve yourself physically and financially.

A woman become loyal when she values you and fears losing the lifestyle and security that you provide.

Modern female-centric divorce laws and the welfare state have provided that security that a husband used to provide so there’s no real motivation for a woman to be “good” anymore.

In fact they are rewarded for being bad. Muliple kids from multiple men? No problem here’s a free house and some free food and money. Keep fucking bitch

How do you find a good girl? Find a young pretty one that gets your dick hard. Marry her with an iron-clad prenup and hide all your major assets oversees.

[Parlay44]

Don’t follow this beta-ass advice. Don’t be the guy she settles for after she’s spent her 20’s riding the carousel.