[Giovonny]

I think if the US recovers it will be because:

We are very hard-working. We work long hours.

Our entrepreneurial spirit. We are working to create new products for the modern world. A lot of the worlds leading technology was created here. If the rest of the world wants to modernize, they will probably do alot of business with us.

We are still one of the "coolest" countries. Even though everyone claims that we are hated, most of the world tries to emulate us. Our products are popular.

We have the best military. We have proven that we will use it to protect our financial interests.

We believe in ourselves. If we want to accomplish something it will probably get done.

We are spoiled. If our standard of living drops we will demand war. If Americans get hungry, they get scary.

I know its all about debt and numbers but I don't think its going to matter. We will just do what every other country does when they get in trouble financially, default on our loans and get slapped on the wrist with some bullshit sanctions or something. And we will probably cheat to rig that in our favor.

Maybe we won't produce as many billionaires as we want to but I don't think we will lose our status as a world power.

My .02 , I am a layperson with this stuff so go easy on me if I'm way off base.

[Giovonny]

(09-29-2011 05:41 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

Population growth is the real problem, not government growth.

Yes, we have too many people and not enough jobs, resources, money, food, etc.

What can be done about this?

The world is growing rapidly. Are our grand kids fucked?

[Samseau]

hydrogonian Wrote:

The man who said that we have to become more insular is much more on target. Population growth is the real problem, not government growth.

Population growth among whites the world over is anemic. Not sure what growth you're talking about.

[hydrogonian]

(09-29-2011 10:04 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

hydrogonian Wrote:

The man who said that we have to become more insular is much more on target. Population growth is the real problem, not government growth.

Population growth among whites the world over is anemic. Not sure what growth you're talking about.

The population growth of the world, as a whole, is not anemic but exponential. Also, its the raw numbers that matter in this case, not the percentage rate of live births to any population. The percentage rate can remain the same, or even decrease, as the raw number grows exponentially. I was referring to the stress put on resources and living conditions as a function of the population the world over. Its the rare region that isn't directly affected by the increasing world population. Every populated continent is seeing an exponential increase in numbers. And EVERY country is affected. Even Iceland will see drastic imported and domestic (petroleum based pesticides) food price increases due to environmental issues/resource shortages and population increases elsewhere in the world.

Semi-permanent water shortages are coming VERY soon to an area near you, if they haven't already (if you live below a certain latitude). Water is more important and critical than oil is at this moment and in the near to mid term future. Its so critical, that the "long term" is too far out to matter. Petroleum energy is a bit of a red herring in comparison. The real issue is water. There isn't a substitute for it.

I read an article that stated, at the current rate of population increase, that by the year 2050 we will need the resource equivalent of 27 earths to provide food, water, and energy for everyone. I will try and find the article.

Many of us will still be here in 2050 to see how this bears out.

[hydrogonian]

(09-29-2011 08:17 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(09-29-2011 05:41 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

Population growth is the real problem, not government growth.

Yes, we have too many people and not enough jobs, resources, money, food, etc.

What can be done about this?

The world is growing rapidly. Are our grand kids fucked?

Maybe ask, what IS being done about this. The powers that be have known about this rapidly approaching situation for at least six decades now.

I'm not sure about the kids situation. Personally, i would feel like I'm bringing kids into a world which is becoming inhumanly competitive. I have to ask myself if its amoral to bring them into such a world, at least without my being able to 100% impart resources to them that will enable them to live safe, abundant lives.

I think that there will be great upheaval in efforts to secure resources, but that society will settle again into equilibrium. Your grandkids will likely be fine, its your kids that might be fucked.

[Samseau]

(09-29-2011 11:18 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

(09-29-2011 10:04 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

hydrogonian Wrote:

The man who said that we have to become more insular is much more on target. Population growth is the real problem, not government growth.

Population growth among whites the world over is anemic. Not sure what growth you're talking about.

The population growth of the world, as a whole, is not anemic but exponential. Also, its the raw numbers that matter in this case, not the percentage rate of live births to any population. The percentage rate can remain the same, or even decrease, as the raw number grows exponentially. I was referring to the stress put on resources and living conditions as a function of the population the world over. Its the rare region that isn't directly affected by the increasing world population. Every populated continent is seeing an exponential increase in numbers. And EVERY country is affected. Even Iceland will see drastic imported and domestic (petroleum based pesticides) food price increases due to environmental issues/resource shortages and population increases elsewhere in the world.

Semi-permanent water shortages are coming VERY soon to an area near you, if they haven't already (if you live below a certain latitude). Water is more important and critical than oil is at this moment and in the near to mid term future. Its so critical, that the "long term" is too far out to matter. Petroleum energy is a bit of a red herring in comparison. The real issue is water. There isn't a substitute for it.

I read an article that stated, at the current rate of population increase, that by the year 2050 we will need the resource equivalent of 27 earths to provide food, water, and energy for everyone. I will try and find the article.

Many of us will still be here in 2050 to see how this bears out.

I don't believe overpopulation is an issue if you have high quality population. That is, high IQ's, strong work ethics, innovative ideas, etc. in the population at large. Whites, for the most part, have these qualities, with the Asians coming in second, the South Americans/Middle Easterns tied for third, and Africans in fourth.

Before the race debates began, let me state that these issues could very well be cultural and not just racial. So I don't know why some regions of the world are lesser than others, but I can observe what is true.

As long as high quality population spreads across the globe, I do not fear scarcity of resources. I believe in Julian Simon's economic thesis that resources will not run out as long as we have enough intelligent people to figure out new ways to create additional resources.

So, for example, in regards to water:

- We'll get more water through desalination methods and improved methods of transporting water.
- We'll genetically modify plants so that they take less water to grow.
- We'll improve industrial consumption of water so less is used.

In regards to energy, like oil:

- We'll make machines that use oil to be more efficient.
- We'll drill deeper and use up other reserves.
- We'll develop alternative energy sources, or switch to less popular ones like nuclear.


The pattern has held true for the last 6000 years or so of human history, and it seems perfectly reasonable to assume that it will continue.


Now, this does not mean that mass starvation or mass droughts cannot occur. Because population is exponential, it could be the case that our intelligence might not keep up with our propensity to breed. But even if die-off's do occur, the march of scientific progress should eventually catch up allowing human numbers to grow ever larger. Scientific progress might allow us to grow exponentially, or it might not. Either way the progress should continue.

Personally, I think there might be a kink in the works because of the fact that most population growth is occurring among lower quality cultures/races, with the least amount of population growth among whites. Since it has been whites who have driven scientific progress for the last 300 years, it's likely that other cultures will be in for some mass die-off's when they find that the whites cannot keep up with their population growth.

Therefore, I don't believe overpopulation is an issue if you have high quality population.

[Giovonny]

(09-30-2011 01:18 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

in regards to water:

- We'll get more water through desalination methods and improved methods of transporting water.
- We'll genetically modify plants so that they take less water to grow.
- We'll improve industrial consumption of water so less is used.

In regards to energy, like oil:

- We'll make machines that use oil to be more efficient.
- We'll drill deeper and use up other reserves.
- We'll develop alternative energy sources, or switch to less popular ones like nuclear.

Isn't it fair to say that many of these innovations and modernizations will likely come from the US?

This is one of the main reasons I think we will remain a world power.

(09-30-2011 01:18 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Therefore, I don't believe overpopulation is an issue if you have high quality population.

I hope you're right. I think over half the worlds population is uneducated and illiterate. But, hopefully the top 10% will save us.

[Ohiogang]

Samseu, where does India come? Probably last because I've heard they are worse off then even Africa, I think China & India are the world's problems and the world would be better off without them.