[Alex T]

(05-21-2018 08:21 PM)Brother Abdul Majeed Wrote:  

It's more than just about the relationship in my opinion, it's about being a man of his word.

I would really hate to think that after all the red-pill knowledge I have picked up over the last few years that I would easily let myself become a deceitful man because of pussy.

Alpha mindset right there.


All the cucks cheat. Not honorable and neither strong men.

[Suits]

How can you cheat on a woman who you've never promised exclusivity to?

Why would you promise exclusivity to a woman who you aren't planning to share a life with?

What pussy would be worth fucking up a situation that you want to last for life?

How can you expect a woman who believes herself to be able morality and doesn't within a society that enforces good behavior to behave herself without the potential consequence of men of quality who she has invested in leaving her for a different woman?

[PapayaTapper]

(05-15-2018 01:14 PM)AceP Wrote:  

I am not really a bluepill guy. So probably not. I'm totally open to open relationships, she can see other guys on the side. Altho I'll always make sure to let her know I'm the highest value guy in her "roster" so I can make her exclusive anytime and that wouldn't be a problem.

I hope you stick around long enough to have this conditioning undone. The "benefit of the bargain" being the same for both men and women when it comes to sex is high feminism propaganda tripe regardless of morality of the issue.

Giving a woman active license to "see" aka fuck other guys is one short step away from being a true cuckhold

[Gray Beard]

(05-13-2018 04:51 PM)EndsExpect Wrote:  

(05-13-2018 04:40 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

This is a big divide here on ROK.
I for one don't understand how any man can look in the mirror and be proud of who he is if he is a liar, a cheat and doesn't uphold the highest moral values in himself.

I understand that atheists can have morals, but.... why? What's the point? Are you just looking for moral exculpation?

What is it about religion that causes followers to believe that atheists need a reason to have morals? Morals have their roots in genetic material (nature) and they are fostered by nurture. They do NOT, repeat, NOT, stem from religion. Anyway, to the point, cheating feels slimy and is by definition immoral. Only enemies deserve to be cheated, and even that can be justified only for self-defense purposes. I certainly hope nobody here is living with a woman he considers his enemy. That's why it should be agreed in advance that the relationship is open to the man and closed to the woman. If OP does not have such an understanding with his GF, and he wants to feel good about himself, he has two options: to leave his GF or to renegotiate. If he renegotiates, he must take into account that she may choose to leave. If he is not willing to pay that price if necessary, his only moral choice is to stay on the straight and narrow. If he does have such an understanding with his GF, it is still a question whether she wants to know or not to know, but that's for a different thread.

[Geomann180]

(05-13-2018 02:49 PM)TheDuncan Wrote:  

Pretty simple question, been with my current girl for a while and shes a good partner, has my back, loyal (as far as I know), good sex, enjoy my time with her and we click well.

Honestly I havent even cheated on her with multiple chances, every once in a while I’ll get on a dating site to test my game out and see if I still got it and I get really tempted to bang a chick here and there but I end feeling guilty.

I mean what she dont know what hurt her..right? But is that a sign of deeper issues in the relationship or me just being a man? Or am I just being a wuss overthinking shit?

Before I try to give you a thoughtful reply, I need you to answer a question.

Is she your girlfriend? Yes or no.

If not, bang away. Like Suits said, it's not cheating if you never promised her exclusivity.

If she is, I'd caution against it. Since this opinion seems to be contra what most say here, I'll explain by telling you an abridged version of my story.

I started out in 2009/2010 (depending on how you count things) wanting to have sex with 50 or 100 girls so I could experienced as possible before getting married, if I wanted. At the time, I thought that I was a man, different from a woman, and that I could love/treat a main girlfriend the same whether I cheated on her on not. My first serious relationship I cheated on her twice and no real guilt at all. She had no way of finding out. When it ended due to my inexperience, I was devastated but moved on. Second serious girlfriend, German virgin, 18 years old. Dated for about 6 months. Cheated on her a couple of times felt little to no guilt. I came to a head where I had to either shit or get off the pot so to speak. In the end, when I made my choice, I realized that I had essentially traded variety for a chance for marriage and children with a woman I would have been comfortable doing that with*. I decided I wasn't okay with that and not happy with the trade. Nonetheless, I moved on.

Third serious girlfriend. Dated her for about a year and a half. Virgin from Latin America. Really cared about this girl. She told me I love you first, I reciprocated a week or so after. She was #5. By the time she broke up with me I was in my 20's. With her, things had changed a bit. When I cheated on her with non-relationship material I felt nothing. But when I cheated on her with relationship quality women (about three of them), I felt pretty guilty. I still thought I treated her the same and our relationship was unaffected.

When we broke up I thought it was just the distance that killed it along with my inability to fix that and her seeming unwillingness to help me.

But after talking to her since then, I realize that was killed the relationship was her worrying about me and who I was with, constantly (dread game anyone?). Her feeling un-cared about. Feeling like I didn't trust her. Whenever she brought up issues, I usually didn't deal with them. I refused a lot of requests. Some were not important - like her wanting me to watch frozen. Some were more important than I gave them credit for - like her asking me to learn three phrases in Spanish so I could talk to her Mom and then I only learned two and one of them was dirty.

I realize that when I had cheated, she noticed. Noticed I was distant or at the very least different. She may never have known exactly why. She have may have suspected. But she knew I was different and something was wrong. And I never acknowledged it or told her what it was. I can't run the numbers and tell you exactly how cheating harmed my relationship, but I know it did. None of it was truly worth it for me in the end.

At this point, I'd avoid cheating for two primary reasons:

1) In my experience, it affects your relationship, which if it's important to you may be a price you're not willing to pay
2) In my opinion, cheating with another girl when main relationship is rocky is using a bandaid solution. You don't truly deal with the problem with the main girl, you actually just distract yourself from it hoping it will go away. Do this enough and you'll train yourself to just put the bandaid of new pussy on any problem you encounter without actually solving any of them.

*Now, the important thing to remember when you're reading all this, is that in my heart of hearts, I want to get married and have children. I want to be the head of my own family. That's the biggest reason why I drew the lessons that I did from my own experience. I believe that not only do I need to understand women enough to be able to pick a good one to marry, but I also need to become the man that the women I'd want to have children with, would marry.

You're not me. I'm not you. So what works from you may or may not work for you. Same goes with the rest of the guys on this forum. A lot of them may or may not have different goals with women then you do, so you need to take that into account before you decide what advice to take and what to think.

You're free to do what you want. I'm not gonna tell you to man up and marry those sluts. I'm not gonna call you a scum bag if you cheat on women. I'm not gonna tell you you're the same as women and therefore can't cheat because you'll suffer the same consequences. I'm just saying, men and women are both different yes, but we're also both human. So just be aware that there's no free lunch and consider what's really important to you, because otherwise you may get what you really want but pay a price too dear for it.'

Hope I explained this somewhat lucidly.

G

[elRey]

Cheating is when you break the rules.

As always, set your own rules.

There are no 'should's outside the constructs of the human mind.

I love girls. I don't want to hurt them.

If I'm with them more than a few times and the vibe is getting to the point where we both really like each other, I will let them know that I'm open to an open relationship. Exclusivity is always possible, but at the stage of life I'm in, I ask they don't expect it.

Some girls have certain expectations, and I don't want to waste their time, disrespect them and cause unneeded pain.

When you truly respect love and respect yourself and others, rules become more and more irrelevant because the way you live causes pleasure and minimises pain to yourself and others.

[S3K2]

I'm on team die a man with no regrets. I agree with all the others that are all basically saying the same thing, in diffrent words that its in a mans biology to love one woman and have sex (or cheat as its called here) with another. I've cheated multiple times and have felt guilt during my beta days. After turning red pill and realizing how vindictive, deceitful woman can be, I no longer feel anything when smashing foreign pussy. I do clean up for my main but thats about it. I am a man with morals, cheating is not a moral issue with me, its a biological issue. If the oppurtunity arises (which I create most of the time admittingly) I'm going to smash and not give it a second thought. At the end of the day we have only one life to live. I take very good care of my family, wife included. I see no wrong with a man having his cake and eating it too. (If I said that quote correctly).

Than you always get the question "well you wouldn't like it if a woman does it to you". Yes true I wouldn't. Been there done that. But if she provided, came home and helped keep up the house and children after work on top of doing all the man shit herself while I got to stay home while the kids are in school and watch tv, and if she was careful about not allowing me to find out...I may just tell her "don't let it happen agian".

[quaker13]

(05-22-2018 11:07 AM)S3K2 Wrote:  

I'm on team die a man with no regrets. I agree with all the others that are all basically saying the same thing, in diffrent words that its in a mans biology to love one woman and have sex (or cheat as its called here) with another. I've cheated multiple times and have felt guilt during my beta days. After turning red pill and realizing how vindictive, deceitful woman can be, I no longer feel anything when smashing foreign pussy. I do clean up for my main but thats about it. I am a man with morals, cheating is not a moral issue with me, its a biological issue. If the oppurtunity arises (which I create most of the time admittingly) I'm going to smash and not give it a second thought. At the end of the day we have only one life to live. I take very good care of my family, wife included. I see no wrong with a man having his cake and eating it too. (If I said that quote correctly).

Than you always get the question "well you wouldn't like it if a woman does it to you". Yes true I wouldn't. Been there done that. But if she provided, came home and helped keep up the house and children after work on top of doing all the man shit herself while I got to stay home while the kids are in school and watch tv, and if she was careful about not allowing me to find out...I may just tell her "don't let it happen agian".

I agree, beyond anything it is biological. I think it's crazy to beat yourself up about something like this and it has absolutely nothing to do manhood.

[Weird Al Spankabitch]

Personally, I find cheating on a good, loyal, woman to be pretty disgusting to be honest. Personally I don’t see cheating as a biological need or badass, but as a weakness, a refuseal to act in an honorable way, and just another part of the sick culture we live in. There are so few decent women anymore...don’t go cheating on the few who actually aren’t shitty.

[quaker13]

(09-07-2018 09:55 AM)Weird Al Spankabitch Wrote:  

Personally, I find cheating on a good, loyal, woman to be pretty disgusting to be honest. Personally I don’t see cheating as a biological need or badass, but as a weakness, a refuseal to act in an honorable way, and just another part of the sick culture we live in. There are so few decent women anymore...don’t go cheating on the few who actually aren’t shitty.

You do realize monogamy is a relatively new concept in terms of human history.
You do also realize without cheating you can make a good loyal woman fall out of love with you. Love is conditional, very conditional. I have fucked a number of married women who cheat on their husbands. I asked them why, they respond with"sometimes i just want to be fucked". If you aren't being magnanimously selfish in this day and age you're fucking playing yourself. I used magnanimous for specific reason. You should be selfish but you should avoid be malicious to people. That's bad energy.

[Weird Al Spankabitch]

[deleted by mod]

[Jetset]

(09-07-2018 11:26 AM)Weird Al Spankabitch Wrote:  

[deleted by mod]

If she was ever so great, then why did she give up her virginity to the likes of a scumbag like me? I've seen plenty of "good, loyal" women who push the communion cart at church and wear white dresses with innocent smiles at their weddings do some truly demeaning shit when they're actually turned on.

You have some really skewed ideas about sex and women and seem angry that other people are getting laid. If the only way you can come up with to keep a woman loyal is to shoot men who try to fuck her, you're the problem.

[Weird Al Spankabitch]

Since when have women ever had any agency? Women are like children. They’re whatever we let them get away with. If a girl’s a virgin she’s capable of pairbonding. If she’s not she’s ruined for marriage and you ruined that for some other man because you wanted a notch. This is like saying that a dog who wasn’t trained properly and bit someone was at fault. Women are fucking children, they are what the world makes them. If any guy knows what we knows and ruins a woman just for a notch, then yes, I’m a self defense situation they deserve to be fucking shot. THEY are the reason society is trash, because us men are the ones with agency not women.

[kaotic]

(09-07-2018 11:26 AM)Weird Al Spankabitch Wrote:  

[deleted by mod]

I have alot of bad news for you, and you're going to run out of bullets.

That white knight armor isn't going to be enough to defend all those women.

Women who aren't virgins are able to pair bond (obviously the probablity is lower as their dick count goes up).

Women can be "trained" or "taught" all the best things in the world, but guess what?

You don't understand women enough to realize they'll still fuck things up on a whim or because of some emotions.

Jetset's right, you sound angry and frustrated - sounds like it's time to look within.


Hilariously advocating keyboard warrior violence isn't going to solve anything bud.

[ActaNonVerba]

Short and simple answer: No. You either cheat or get cheated.

[Weird Al Spankabitch]

Women are retarded children who need to be trained and put in line, but the if they’re a virgin and your game is tight she’ll be loyal and willing to do anything for you. You’ll have meaning, someone to raise your kids. The player lifestyle isn’t the most fulfilling lifestyle out there. It’s an adaptation to a world where most women are unsalvageable whores. If you think a woman past 3 partners is at all salvageaable you’re retarded. Sure they can be trained, but they’ll ALWAYS have feelings for other men. If you fuck a virgin just for a notch, no man will ever be able to marry her and have her be her be just his. There’s plenty of whores for notches. They’re everywhere. Use them for sex, lie to them, whatever. They’re already ruined. But they can give you a good nut.

[Jetset]

(09-07-2018 12:01 PM)Weird Al Spankabitch Wrote:  

[deleted by mod]

The idea that men are going to protect the virgins for you until you get around to fucking them is weird and delusional.

Nobody cares if they "ruined" anything for you. You are nobody to 999,999 out of every 1,000,000 people on this planet. How old are you, and how many women have you been with?

[kaotic]

Looks like someone overdoesed on the black pill.

Elliot Rodger is that you?


Hate to say it dude, you're in the wrong forum if you think player's should be shot.

If women cheat, might as well be with guys that are in the know.

If virgins wanna fuck but not be in relationships, what are you going to do?

Put a gun to their head, screech autistically, and tell them they need to save themselves for pair bonding?

The world doesn't work in black and white, there's this thing called free willed, unless you plan on being all dark triad alpha and enslaving women.

But I gotta ask, who hurt you? Was it a shitty break up? Divorce? Did you get cheated on by a virgin?

[Baphomet]

(09-07-2018 10:20 AM)quaker13 Wrote:  

You do realize monogamy is a relatively new concept in terms of human history.

The concept that "slavery is not acceptable" is a pretty new one too in terms of human history. In fact, monogamy, as a concept, has been around longer. So I'm not sure the "new concept" argument has much validity.

During the course of pretty much every relationship there's a point where you and she have the "are we exclusive" talk.

If you are an honorable man, you make your TRUE position known. To wit:

A. Yes, we are exclusive to each other.
B. "I don't think we've reached that point yet" or the equivalent.

And, if you place value on personal integrity, you stick to your word. The mere fact that some women are cheats and liars has no bearing on you maintaining your personal integrity.

My personal integrity, and consequently, the integrity of my word, are of great importance to me. Damaging that would do considerable harm to me and those who also place value on my integrity. Lying damages integrity both internally and externally. And that damage is often extremely challenging to repair.

So YES, if you've affirmed the "are we exclusive" talk, and especially if you've entered into the covenant of marriage, you should feel shitty for cheating.

[quaker13]

(09-07-2018 12:29 PM)Baphomet Wrote:  

(09-07-2018 10:20 AM)quaker13 Wrote:  

You do realize monogamy is a relatively new concept in terms of human history.

The concept that "slavery is not acceptable" is a pretty new one too in terms of human history. In fact, monogamy, as a concept, has been around longer. So I'm not sure the "new concept" argument has much validity.

During the course of pretty much every relationship there's a point where you and she have the "are we exclusive" talk.

If you are an honorable man, you make your TRUE position known. To wit:

A. Yes, we are exclusive to each other.
B. "I don't think we've reached that point yet" or the equivalent.

And, if you place value on personal integrity, you stick to your word. The mere fact that some women are cheats and liars has no bearing on you maintaining your personal integrity.

My personal integrity, and consequently, the integrity of my word, are of great importance to me. Damaging that would do considerable harm to me and those who also place value on my integrity. Lying damages integrity both internally and externally. And that damage is often extremely challenging to repair.

So YES, if you've affirmed the "are we exclusive" talk, and especially if you've entered into the covenant of marriage, you should feel shitty for cheating.

I don't like to use the words women and honor in the same sentence. Sorry, I don't feel the least bit shitty. Im a great partner and I don't bring any diseases back. That's pretty much the end of the moral dilemma for me. I love women and i harbor no animus but im not about to let my loyalty to them serve as a moral compass for the rest of my life. That's a harsh form of slavery.

[Baphomet]

(09-07-2018 01:07 PM)quaker13 Wrote:  

I don't like to use the words women and honor in the same sentence. Sorry, I don't feel the least bit shitty. Im a great partner and I don't bring any diseases back. That's pretty much the end of the moral dilemma for me. I love women and i harbor no animus but im not about to let my loyalty to them serve as a moral compass for the rest of my life. That's a harsh form of slavery.

If the actions of others steers your moral compass then you do not have a "compass" at all. You have a "moral leaf" that flutters in whatever direction the bitter wind may blow. I say, "bitter" because you sound that way.

There is no integrity in, "If it feels good, do it."

[kaotic]

You know Baphomet I wrote something up in response to your original piece but deleted it, thinking I didn't want to open this can of worms again, but here goes:

Quote:

My personal integrity, and consequently, the integrity of my word, are of great importance to me. Damaging that would do considerable harm to me and those who also place value on my integrity. Lying damages integrity both internally and externally. And that damage is often extremely challenging to repair.

So YES, if you've affirmed the "are we exclusive" talk, and especially if you've entered into the covenant of marriage, you should feel shitty for cheating.

Sure there's nothing wrong with beating your chest and saying you're honorable, much respect for that.

But honorable and great men of the past have had mistresses, concubines, etc.

There's such a thing as compartmentalization aka putting things in silo's.

I've been perfectly fine with having an LTR and mini LTR when I'm doing my thing on the side.

This goes back to the age old line of men cheat physically for the hunt, but women cheat emotionally.

My soul/heart is still my womans, and so are my emotions for her.

A man can cheat and still honor his wife and families requirements.


If it damages you, then that's your own problem, you're letting it do so.

Some men like me, can keep it separate from all the other things in our lives.

For example, I'd never lie and cheat my friends out of anything, I stay loyal to them and would do anything for them.

I've banged, dated, had relationships with alot of women, and it's never once damaged my integrity in other avenues of my life, my word is still bond.


The whole holier than thou act isn't going to shame anyone into doing anything and doesn't put the other on a higher ground.

People have standards, that's fine, and it's respectable.

[Montrose]

Lying to women on relationship matters is sort of mandatory. Women are not actually interested in the truth. They want feelgood words. If you think that you are bound to tell the truth to women you are completely missing the plot. Tell women what they need to know in order to act in their best interest (just like your kids or your dog). It is both ethical and practical.

[Baphomet]

(09-07-2018 02:10 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

You know Baphomet I wrote something up in response to your original piece but deleted it, thinking I didn't want to open this can of worms again, but here goes:

Quote:

My personal integrity, and consequently, the integrity of my word, are of great importance to me. Damaging that would do considerable harm to me and those who also place value on my integrity. Lying damages integrity both internally and externally. And that damage is often extremely challenging to repair.

So YES, if you've affirmed the "are we exclusive" talk, and especially if you've entered into the covenant of marriage, you should feel shitty for cheating.

Sure there's nothing wrong with beating your chest and saying you're honorable, much respect for that.

But honorable and great men of the past have had mistresses, concubines, etc.

There's such a thing as compartmentalization aka putting things in silo's.

I've been perfectly fine with having an LTR and mini LTR when I'm doing my thing on the side.

This goes back to the age old line of men cheat physically for the hunt, but women cheat emotionally.

My soul/heart is still my womans, and so are my emotions for her.

A man can cheat and still honor his wife and families requirements.


If it damages you, then that's your own problem, you're letting it do so.

Some men like me, can keep it separate from all the other things in our lives.

For example, I'd never lie and cheat my friends out of anything, I stay loyal to them and would do anything for them.

I've banged, dated, had relationships with alot of women, and it's never once damaged my integrity in other avenues of my life, my word is still bond.


The whole holier than thou act isn't going to shame anyone into doing anything and doesn't put the other on a higher ground.

People have standards, that's fine, and it's respectable.

Kaotic,

This is not chest beating in any way. It is however, a very stark difference of opinion.

It is my opinion that if I give my word to someone, then I am obligated to keep it. There is no difference if that person is a man or a woman.

This really is a very binary issue. Either you keep your word, or you do not. There are not really any shades of gray in that.

My position is that if you are in a relationship and you both agree to mutual exclusivity, then that it what you should do. If it is your personal conviction that it's ok to fuck anyone without regard to your word of exclusivity, then why not have the courage of those convictions and tell the girl that you will not promise exclusivity?

Why lie about it? Why not say, "Look, we can hang and have fun, but we're not at a point for heavy commitments" ?

Why make a commitment if you're not going to keep it? If you are going to do that, what you really need to say is, "my word is still bond... sometimes, but not always..." Because it isn't.

[kaotic]

I completely understand your side of things very well, I used to be exactly like you.


There is difference of interpretation between a woman you're sleeping with, compared with your sister.

There is a difference of interpretation between the sexes in general.

There's no reason to "sack up and be a man" when it's only going to complicate things, less said, the better.

Especially if you've told the girl you aren't interest in marriage/kids/etc.


Afterall, that position is the, I want my cake and eat it too. I'm sticking it to it.

But funny enough I haven't been in a committed serious relationship the last few years, only girls I'm seeing casually for spinning plates.

We'll just have to disagree man, I think it can be compartmentalized solely with woman and you wont corrupt other parts of your life.