[Super_Fire]

Going forward, I don't see Old World paganism (if you will) leading the charge for the mind and soul of the Western man. Now, that doesn't mean we should forget those legends. I think everyone should study Greek and Norse mythology, and be aware of the main European, pre-Christian traditions.

However, from a religious standpoint, as others have noted, it's all just LARPing. Nobody actually believes in Asatru and that Thor is going to strike them down for not pouring some mead on the block next Thorsday. But they're good archetypes that everyone should know and respect.

Atheism, and agnosticism, don't get me started. Mental meandering like that again will take us nowhere, especially given the circumstances and the convictions of those opposing the West, who are anything but a bunch of wishy-washy edgelords with daddy issues.

Even "whiteness" is kind of a made-up identity that is borderline meaningless, I'm sorry. Nobody knows where the boundary for whiteness is. The Irish weren't white until they were. Are the French, Italian, Spanish, or Greeks white? Hell, is Roosh white? Who cares! The Jews love the white meme as can be seen on Twitter when one day they're saying "We white guys need to do better" and two days later claiming "I have always been a victim of Antisemitism." Give me a break. This whole white thing comes from the American South, because they were all Protestant, so were either white or black. "White" was just "not black" and English-descendant. Europeans identify by their nationality, but more importantly by their religion. That's how immigrant communities formed in the US, and when the inner cities were busted up by social engineering and the Great Migration, everyone all of a sudden became white guys, not German, Irish, Polish, Italian, etc.

The Nazis tried again to create a sort of new identity, based on Wagner, and couldn't decide if they were pagan or Christian, and based on a made up race. The whole "Aryan" thing again becomes ridiculous. Were the English "Aryan"? Why was Hitler OK with the Spanish and Italians? Politics, or race?

At the end of the day, whether we like it or not, the only unifying identity we have that crosses cultural boundaries is a belief in God/Logos. And of the denominations that deal with that, the only one over the past 2,000 years that has a history of dealing with outside forces (Jews, Muslims) and defending Western civilization has been the Catholic Church. Yes, it's a shell of itself since 1965, but we know what it was like before then too and we need to revive that or else.

[Enigma]

(04-23-2018 06:46 PM)Raylan Givens Wrote:  

Show me where I said all Westerners (or even Westerners "en mass") will convert to Orthodoxy. I explicitly said the the opposite.

You're right, I misread your post.

Regardless, my points about the Orthodox church still stand. They have less fat at the moment because they've by centuries of constant war and Muslim occupation.

The Western church was similarly lean when it went through turmoil (including times when Byzantium was at its most corrupt and depraved).

I don't even have a problem with the Eastern Church, but you literally just joined the Orthodox church two months ago, now you're calling people Russophobes for disagreeing with you and calling all other sects "garbage". Calm down a little.

[sterling_archer]

(04-23-2018 04:55 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

If you view the world as being under Satan's Control, then the Biblical Texts and the provided rules are a strict operant conditioning system to psychologically-programme you to - with work and discipline - be freed of satanic bondage. Dysfunctional actions guarantee dysfunctional results under the Law that is in place because your spiritual protections are, legally, removed.

Remember what happens immediately after Jesus dies on the Cross: The Harrowing Of Hell. Jesus descends into Hell, tells the virtuous that the Gates of Heaven have been opened, and leads them to paradise. Note that even though they'd followed God's Law until they died, they were not fully yet out of Satan's reach.

The crucifixion is the rewriting of the Legal Code, almost if Jesus had found a Loophole in Satan's Contract.

It's fascinating.

Food for thought. If we view Satan as not only king of this world but also a creator of this reality, which is a honey trap, prison reality for souls, than we have entirely new view of the whole matter. Supposedly this whole reality comes with an contract. Soul is allowed to incarnate here but in doing so, it takes full responsibility for sin, even if it is not guilty at all and in turn absolving Satan of any wrongdoing. The whole nature of this place makes soul susceptible for sinning and this belief here is different than original sin that is talked in Bible. Satan avoided any judgement for the whole time, just because of this clever construct. Get this, he makes everything to tempt you into sinning, you sin, you pay, he just laughs and gets not even a slap on the wrist.

Jesus might not have died for our sins, but to kill the Satan, which according to some he really did. It all comes down to karmic laws and how they operate. Even godlike beings (either evil or good) can be killed if they kill other being of same magnitude or greater. Karma is a bitch.
Since the Earth is in the direct dominion of Satan, and a Jesus as a God incarnate went here and died here, Satan is directly responsible for that and in turn he was punished.

But make no mistake, his "structures" are pretty firmly planted and even if he is dead, there is still job to do on ourselves.
This might be real goal of Enlightenment. To purify your soul and stop the fuck incarnating here, in this prison reality.

Note:
What I described here in these short paragraphs are some of my views on matter of God/Satan/Ressurection/Salvation etc.
One can notice that this is very similar to Gnosticism with a mix of eastern philosophies. I honestly believe Gnostic movement (in all its incarnations) was onto something and since I believe that Pope and his Church are in Satan's dominion, it makes sense to me that they were regarded as heretics in medieval times and prosecuted.

[Mage]

(04-23-2018 02:27 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Mage - as a side-note - you are making some sweeping generalizations about Christianity comparing it somehow with Islam or claiming that most Christians will simply convert when this was not even the case with the Middle Eastern Christians living for 1400 years among them despite them having all the power, strength and even monetary suppression. It's not anywhere close to being identical. It should also give you room for thought when you claim that many current-day pagans were Satanists not so long ago. And I am not even some kind of bible-thumping guy here who sees Satanist circles as a real threat, but still - it's not exactly a positive mindset.

Good point about Middle Eastern Christians not converting and surviving under Islam. Kudos to them. Perhaps small groups of Christians will survive. Their ability to save the west and influance the world will be minimal trough.

About Satanists - I already explained.There is no such thing as true Satanism. Satan is a Christian invention - based on very vague Biblical basis and mostly being an imagination of artists and writers like Dante. Satan is a Christian invention used to explain all other religious practices. In early Christianity all pagan gods were declared as devils. Today Christians accuse Judaism as being a covert Satanism. The same with Islam, many Christians will claim Mohammad's revelations came from the devil. Yoga is also a path to unity with Satan in Christian mind. Everything non-christian is Satanism in a Christian mind.

When a young man gets dissapointed in Christianity, but is not numb enough to abandon all spirituality and become an atheist he often starts to identify as a Satanist - merely an opposite of Christianity. But as he matures and learns more about his supposed new faith of Satanism he discovers that it is actually not a mere reaction to Christianity, but rather a thing on it's own - somethin that is older and deeper then Christianity and could actually give no fuck about this later practice. Then it is time to stop being a rebelling anti-Christian a.k.a Satanist and become something entirely else, something constructive again like a Pagan or Kaballist or a Yogi.

I explained this twice on this thread already. If anyone accuses paganism as being somethin negative again because it has some connection to Satanism - I will consider that person a fool and a troll.

[Mage]

(04-23-2018 06:17 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

Mage is playing dumb in order to subvert common understanding.

In that post he talks about a corpse on a cross and only in the last paragraph mentions resurrection.

He wants to smear crap all over something that is important to billions of people.

His big insight is that Jesus with a pierced heart is a much better symbol than the cross.

This is lame because it isn't the point of that post, which is to deride the most important Christian symbol, to make it look weak, foolish, reeking of death and destruction.

I heard his brother in arms that Styxhex guy on a podcast saying that every interview he does is basically a pagan ritual.

Bingorama.

Nothing he says will affect people with strong faith, but he may sway weak minded, weak hearted people who want to look cool and smart and strong.

Tedious when you can see it and call it what it is.

Me and Styx and Young_blade are all Satanists with a mission to get your soul and eat it. Boo!

For the sake of your immortal soul abandon this thread, or risk to fall into temptation.

Shut your doors, shut your windows, shut off your computer and your radio and your TV, so no sin may enter your house, pick up that Rosary and pray it repeatedly from morning to evening and from evening to morning. For the hour of Judgement is nigh and let not the angel of God find you without a Word of Lord on your lips.

[Mage]

(04-23-2018 04:55 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

The crucifixion is the rewriting of the Legal Code, almost if Jesus had found a Loophole in Satan's Contract.

It's fascinating.

It's pretty lame. I thought you Christians said your God was mightier then Satan and could destroy him and any rule of his by the awesome power of his omnipotence.

But it looks like he has to crawl around like a thief, around Satan's mighty fortess of power, looking for loopholes.

That's some pretty inconsistent God there, his power level flactuates more rapidly than that of Superman in comics by various authors or more then San Goku who can destroy planets but cen get hurt by an angry slap from Chi-Chi.

[Meliorare93]

(04-24-2018 02:20 AM)Mage Wrote:  

About Satanists - I already explained.There is no such thing as true Satanism. Satan is a Christian invention - based on very vague Biblical basis and mostly being an imagination of artists and writers like Dante. Satan is a Christian invention used to explain all other religious practices. In early Christianity all pagan gods were declared as devils. Today Christians accuse Judaism as being a covert Satanism. The same with Islam, many Christians will claim Mohammad's revelations came from the devil. Yoga is also a path to unity with Satan in Christian mind. Everything non-christian is Satanism in a Christian mind.

Perhaps but for many it is a True thing... It's not a theistic religion per sé since most satanists consider their selves a god.

(04-24-2018 02:20 AM)Mage Wrote:  

When a young man gets dissapointed in Christianity, but is not numb enough to abandon all spirituality and become an atheist he often starts to identify as a Satanist - merely an opposite of Christianity. But as he matures and learns more about his supposed new faith of Satanism he discovers that it is actually not a mere reaction to Christianity, but rather a thing on it's own - somethin that is older and deeper then Christianity and could actually give no fuck about this later practice. Then it is time to stop being a rebelling anti-Christian a.k.a Satanist and become something entirely else, something constructive again like a Pagan or Kaballist or a Yogi.

why is satanism not constructive? it's red pill as fuck imho...

[Mage]

(04-23-2018 02:57 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 02:45 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 02:27 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

The simple ideas of hell/negative karma/shame to family and ancestors aid in suppressing the most negative actions. That is why we don't follow our instincts, don't rape all women we find hot, don't bash someone's head in just because he pissed us off in traffic or at work. Our animal instincts are telling us all of that. Our higher nature is speaking something else, but in between the realm of the mind and emotions is dominated by ideologies, by religion or by the wisdom of wiser men that is either helping us making better choices or the wisdom is just designed to make worse beings out of us (Islam).

Very odd that when it comes to not raping women, the place which invented the entire concept of karma seems the worst at it.

And those shit-bathing pics of India posted earlier are not far from the truth for much of the region. As much of a shit show that modern Christianity is nowadays, at least it isn't an actual shit show.

Simple:

1) Caste system is shit - far more negative than it seems
2) Dowry system and devaluation of women - also highly negative
3) Add to it average IQ of 81 while all the high-IQ ones leave (average Indian immigrant to the US has reportedly an IQ of around 110)

The teachings of karma barely registers in such an environment.

Though some of the reports are overblown. It's a country of 1.4 billion with shit infrastructure and a still large Muslim minority. My guess is that the place would be far worse with a different mindset. Though all three aspects mentioned by me will have to change if India intends to surpass a country like China. In my opinion that will happen, just in a few centuries.

Oh - and another thing - most Indians are far more materialistic than Westerners. Many spiritual people report all the same being absolutely dumbfounded by the rampant materialism thinking that they would enter some kind of enlightened place while everyone thinks about money and social advancement.

Yes present day India is in pretty bad shape. There is a lot of materialism, but so it is on the whole planet. You cannot blame this one place for it only, when the whole world is materialist and even our relatively prosperous west basicly relies on cheap labor in that sme India, China and elsewhere. So it is a global problem. Also our prosperity relies on about 25-30% abortion rate. Each fourth child is killed before birth in west. So the world is fucked up everywhere from a spiritual perspective.

Still India was a great civilization in times of Vedas. I am still researching this question, but I think that the downfall came from the concept of castes becoming inherited. Castes are supposed to deptic the level of spiritual intrests of a person and serve as a factor determining a persons place in social hierarchy. But once it became inherited all social mobility stopped and everything became corrupt. Still west was in the same position with feudalism in middle ages and Christianity fully supported it. Christianity was used to explain that each person must bear it's lot in this life, not to question authority and be rewarded in afterlife. During this age of feodalism, Europe too was a dirty and shitty place where there was shit on streets and people died from black death like flies.

The Greco-Roman Paganism inspired ideas of enlightenment slowly changed this and western society slowly changed int one where social moblity is possible and thus people could change their occupation and wel being and so came forth great economic and technological progress. India just didn't had such enlightment.

All this proves is that both Paganism and Christianity can be counterproductive if applied wrongly. What we need to debate trough is who is superior if applied at it's best. Even more accuratly we need to debate what is more true, because some level of prosperity can be constructed on a lie too. The supposedly Christian west lives on a lie too. West thinks it is more humane because it is against slavery. Yet it indulges in consuming shiny trinkets produced by 16 hour child labor workers all the time. And most people thing that today we have no human sacrafice - but we do. We as a society sacrafice each fourth child to Moloch asking him to deliver us from the evils of overpopulation and poverty. Christians might be against it but they still benefit from it and take pride in their societies having no poor beggars on streets, because they have been aborted.

[Mage]

(04-24-2018 02:47 AM)Meliorare93 Wrote:  

why is satanism not constructive? it's red pill as fuck imho...

Satanism views material egoism as the highest level of conscience and guess which sex is more egoistic? Satanism leads to female superiority. A woman is more perfect being in Satanism then a man. It's red pill in a dark, defeatist way. If you want a spirtiual basis on why a man should be superior to a woman you must account for the truth that a man is better in overcoming his egoism. You need a faith that is about more then satisfying egoism.

[sterling_archer]

Here is conversation between two my favorite youtubers, Jay Dyer and Styx about topics in this thread.
Note: Styx goes away after an hour and is not present the whole conversation.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(04-23-2018 07:41 PM)Super_Fire Wrote:  

...
Even "whiteness" is kind of a made-up identity that is borderline meaningless, I'm sorry. Nobody knows where the boundary for whiteness is.
...

delete

The modern construct of whiteness is determined by anti-white activists. Whether a spaniard cares to be associated with a slav or not, both have been marked under the same heading for extermination purposes.

Under the globalist playbook the goal is to fence in everyone remotely white from the outside while on the inside of that big tent simultaneously fostering division with the "(x) group is not really white" meme.

As per the history of mankind, it matters less what you define yourself as and more what the guy pointing the gun at you defines you as.

[loremipsum]

(04-24-2018 12:39 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

Note:
What I described here in these short paragraphs are some of my views on matter of God/Satan/Ressurection/Salvation etc.
One can notice that this is very similar to Gnosticism with a mix of eastern philosophies. I honestly believe Gnostic movement (in all its incarnations) was onto something and since I believe that Pope and his Church are in Satan's dominion, it makes sense to me that they were regarded as heretics in medieval times and prosecuted.

There is definitely something going on with the elite worshiping entities in secret societies and sex cults. I don't believe the "they're rich, what else they're going to do" -argument for a second. There's a reason these entities have been described since the dawn of man.

[sterling_archer]

Yes. AB described that once as an satanic intent or some term similar. An intent do worship particular entity in any way at the end results as some kind of self fulfilling prophecy mechanism. Now, does that mean that Elites are sacrificing people to entity they deem to be their ruler (btw, I doubt they use term Satan) or not I am not sure. Whatever they do, be damn sure that are pretty much affirmed that they have right to do so and it is working. After all, all this years they are still at the top. Of course we are also not helping in the whole matter when we are talking about them and how they are our rulers (the more you talk about someone being your ruler, he will become your ruler).

I will say just one example, a bit funny one but never the less very real. You all know whom I am talking about. Pepe the frog. Now, this is not a real entity, but meme magick is very real. By using an image of Pepe for a goal and constantly "feeding" it with some particular action, you are in fact making it possible for desired income to come faster than otherwise it would happen. Trump won in great deal because of meme magick. Any occultist worth their salt will realize this.

[debeguiled]

(04-24-2018 02:29 AM)Mage Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 06:17 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

Tedious when you can see it and call it what it is.

Me and Styx and Young_blade are all Satanists with a mission to get your soul and eat it. Boo!

For the sake of your immortal soul abandon this thread, or risk to fall into temptation.

Shut your doors, shut your windows, shut off your computer and your radio and your TV, so no sin may enter your house, pick up that Rosary and pray it repeatedly from morning to evening and from evening to morning. For the hour of Judgement is nigh and let not the angel of God find you without a Word of Lord on your lips.

Tedious when you can see it and call it what it is.

[fenetre]

(04-24-2018 10:54 AM)debeguiled Wrote:  

(04-24-2018 02:29 AM)Mage Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 06:17 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

Tedious when you can see it and call it what it is.

Me and Styx and Young_blade are all Satanists with a mission to get your soul and eat it. Boo!

For the sake of your immortal soul abandon this thread, or risk to fall into temptation.

Shut your doors, shut your windows, shut off your computer and your radio and your TV, so no sin may enter your house, pick up that Rosary and pray it repeatedly from morning to evening and from evening to morning. For the hour of Judgement is nigh and let not the angel of God find you without a Word of Lord on your lips.

Tedious when you can see it and call it what it is.

Tedious is the right way to describe Mage and similar posters such as Rat in the Woods. The latter had a post yesterday or today on another recent deep forum thread which is so contemptible it doesn't deserve a response.

If anyone hasn't yet read The Possessed I'd highly recommend doing so. Dostoevsky crafts a majestic narrative around key characters, and it's so instructive for discussions such as on this thread.

Mage, you casually dismiss much of the cogent points of posters who are clearly in a better place psychologically than you are. You're larping with something that has the potential to effect you for eternity.

Your paganism is equated with satan and other demons by Christianity, because it is so. You can't be accused of ignorance because you're clearly so invested in this backward paganism bullshit.

Other posters have alluded to what's underlying all of this debate. It's not about religion and science or Christianity and paganism. It's about one's psychological disposition. With your paganism nonsense you're making grand statements about how you alone have the knowledge, the insight, the wisdom, and everyone else is wrong. You're a fancy flat-earther.

Logical arguments fail with you and others like Rat in the Woods. You have an answer for everything. You can bring the horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Christ existed. Accept this and walk back from the precipice.

[Mage]

(04-24-2018 11:27 AM)fenetre Wrote:  

Tedious is the right way to describe Mage and similar posters such as Rat in the Woods. The latter had a post yesterday or today on another recent deep forum thread which is so contemptible it doesn't deserve a response.

If anyone hasn't yet read The Possessed I'd highly recommend doing so. Dostoevsky crafts a majestic narrative around key characters, and it's so instructive for discussions such as on this thread.

Mage, you casually dismiss much of the cogent points of posters who are clearly in a better place psychologically than you are. You're larping with something that has the potential to effect you for eternity.

Your paganism is equated with satan and other demons by Christianity, because it is so. You can't be accused of ignorance because you're clearly so invested in this backward paganism bullshit.

Other posters have alluded to what's underlying all of this debate. It's not about religion and science or Christianity and paganism. It's about one's psychological disposition. With your paganism nonsense you're making grand statements about how you alone have the knowledge, the insight, the wisdom, and everyone else is wrong. You're a fancy flat-earther.

Logical arguments fail with you and others like Rat in the Woods. You have an answer for everything. You can bring the horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Christ existed. Accept this and walk back from the precipice.

Very well. Your post was very rewarding for me to read. When people stop using arguments and start shaming and fearmongering if gives good amount of validation, that I must have hit some right points.

I don't know who is Rat in the Woods so ranting about him in a response to my post only reveals your solipsism.

Also I never said that Christ didn't exist. I think he was a great holy man and a son of God. God is father to all of us and we all are his children, but many of us have lost his likeness and cannot call ourselves his sons without shame.

You must have confused me with some other person with whom you disagreed. Maybe it was this Rat in the Woods or maybe someone else. It is apparent that you are a selfish and solipsistic person who only cares about your own perspective and you don't really are about what others say you just put it all together in your "heresy" compartment and treat everyone with whom you disagree in a similar shitty manner - without love, without understanding. You only care for the stability of your shaky worldview on whom your fragile ego rests. May God have mercy on you.

[Raylan Givens]

(04-23-2018 08:21 PM)Enigma Wrote:  

(04-23-2018 06:46 PM)Raylan Givens Wrote:  

Show me where I said all Westerners (or even Westerners "en mass") will convert to Orthodoxy. I explicitly said the the opposite.

You're right, I misread your post.

Regardless, my points about the Orthodox church still stand. They have less fat at the moment because they've by centuries of constant war and Muslim occupation.

The Western church was similarly lean when it went through turmoil (including times when Byzantium was at its most corrupt and depraved).

I don't even have a problem with the Eastern Church, but you literally just joined the Orthodox church two months ago, now you're calling people Russophobes for disagreeing with you and calling all other sects "garbage". Calm down a little.

I'm not calling everybody Russophobes, only assholes who say shit like this:

Quote:

It is utterly corrupt. Every priest who is left there is a former KGB agent. It is a rupor for Russian state power.

Anyway I would not trust an orthodox priest with a confession, the same way I would trust a Catholic priest, despite Catholics being more cucked. Each remaining Russian Orthodox priest is an informant for the state. There are non-russian orthodox, but their numbers and impact are too small to cause any cultural change and they are under constant pressure from Russian orthodox to recognize the superiority of Moscovian patriatchate.

How is that not Russophobia? Nothing to do with disagreeing with me, everything to do with statements like the above.

Protestant sects are by and large garbage. That opinion hasn't changed in a good 10 years. The vast majority of modern Roman Catholicism is garbage too. Again, that opinion hasn't changed much in the past 10 years either. How is any of the following not garbage?:






I could go on and on.

While I'm new to Orthodoxy I'm not new to Christianity or to the fact that the majority of it is garbage.

[SlickyBoy]

(04-24-2018 03:14 AM)Mage Wrote:  

Yes present day India is in pretty bad shape. There is a lot of materialism, but so it is on the whole planet. You cannot blame this one place for it only, when the whole world is materialist and even our relatively prosperous west basicly relies on cheap labor in that sme India, China and elsewhere. So it is a global problem.

Been to both places, and different parts of Africa and the middle east. I've never seen anything like the shit (quite literally) that I saw in India. As for cheap labor, companies are learning cheap labor works for cheap tasks. Even then, call center operations are shifting over to the Phils where you have better English speakers and people who can operate off script once in a while in situations where an Indian would be clueless. Similarly with coding, most of it that goes beyond the predictable sucks absolute ass.

Couple that with the legendary amounts of Indian red tape and no company wants work there that may require intellectual property protection. So they outsource the cheap grunt work and try to skin the cat by bringing some H1B workers into Silicon Valley to work on more important things cheaply while having the work product protected under US law.

This isn't critical to our economy, it's critical to the stock options of traitorous asshats like Zuckerberg, Sanders, Page, Brin, etc.

Quote:

Also our prosperity relies on(?) about 25-30% abortion rate. Each fourth child is killed before birth in west. So the world is fucked up everywhere from a spiritual perspective.

If being prosperous is having 25% of the female population kill their own children and trying to make up the difference by wholesale importation of low-end 3rd world refugees, you can have it. The abortion rate is coincidental, not causative, of prosperity.

Quote:

Still India was a great civilization in times of Vedas. I am still researching this question, but I think that the downfall came from the concept of castes becoming inherited. Castes are supposed to deptic the level of spiritual intrests of a person and serve as a factor determining a persons place in social hierarchy. But once it became inherited all social mobility stopped and everything became corrupt. Still west was in the same position with feudalism in middle ages and Christianity fully supported it. Christianity was used to explain that each person must bear it's lot in this life, not to question authority and be rewarded in afterlife. During this age of feodalism, Europe too was a dirty and shitty place where there was shit on streets and people died from black death like flies.

The caste system is officially dead, but it is very much alive culturally. Indians don't give a rats fuck about anyone beneath them (look up the Dalit to see an example). Each caste actually believes it's the fault of the lower caste person for being born that way - but it's only temporary, until the next life.

Quote:

The Greco-Roman Paganism inspired ideas of enlightenment slowly changed this and western society slowly changed int one where social moblity is possible and thus people could change their occupation and wel being and so came forth great economic and technological progress. India just didn't had such enlightment.

Even before Christianity entered the picture, Greece fell and Rome was corrupt - massively. Watered down currency, slaves defending borders and lead-based plumbing slowly driving the ruling class mad, and increasingly violent. Not good. What you're talking about with respect to social mobility didn't really start to happen (sort of) until the mercantile system.

Quote:

We as a society sacrafice each fourth child to Moloch asking him to deliver us from the evils of overpopulation and poverty.

Which isn't even true, in spite of so much leftover boomer rhetoric.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

< The West has been far more socially mobile than most other societies - whether you look at China, Japan or India - even at their height, their feudal system was more dead set. Even the Romans allowed for slaves to be freed occasionally and reach some level of wealth and renown. Vikings and celts had an even smaller hierarchy - being a great warrior could make you a very important man in their tribe. The middle ages had of course the wide legion of serfs, but it was never as rigid as anywhere else. And of course it all broke up far more centuries ago where former peasants could make huge progress.

[Mage]

(04-24-2018 01:03 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

< The West has been far more socially mobile than most other societies - whether you look at China, Japan or India - even at their height, their feudal system was more dead set. Even the Romans allowed for slaves to be freed occasionally and reach some level of wealth and renown. Vikings and Celts had an even smaller hierarchy - being a great warrior could make you a very important man in their tribe. The middle ages had of course the wide legion of serfs, but it was never as rigid as anywhere else. And of course it all broke up far more centuries ago where former peasants could make huge progress.

That is true, but we know comparatively very little about India in Greek and Roman times and the amount of their social mobility. We know that India hit it's peak civilization in Vedic period around 1000 BCE -500 BCE. (Exact numbers can be disputed) It was in this time when caste system was not rigid and reflected person's values and aspirations and his chosen profession and was not inherited.

India started declining rapidly from 500 -600 CE, which (surprise, surprise) is about the same time Islam started flowing into it. So when Europeans colonized India about 1000 years later, it was already just a shell of it's former self. The fact is that Western man has never seen India at it's best.

Also since this discussion is about Paganism vs Christianity and not about West vs East, there is no dispute about West having more social mobility. If we can agree that pagan Greeks and Romans and Vikings had a decent social mobility when compared to feudal Christianity then there is no argument between us.

I have read and heard that ancient Persia actually had more social mobility and relied less on slavery then ancient Babylonians (who open their gates to them for this reason) and ancient Greeks. So it could be argued that Persians had more social mobility then at least two cultures more western then them. I have little research about this trough. But it seems that movies like 300 were bullshit and Spartans actually had much more slaves then Persians who were a very free society by ancient standards. I wonder to which extent could the Persians have been influenced by the much older Indian civilization directly to it's east.

It is also interesting to note that historically the worlds "Wealth pole" has rather constantly moved westwards. It started from India (maybe even southeastern Asia), passed Babylonia, then Roman Empire and medieval Rome as Europe's spiritual center then British empire, it jumped Atlantic ocean trough Brits, then USA, moving from east cost to west coast and is now at California and Silicon Valley. What will happen next? Will Pacific stop it or next global superpower will be Japan and China?

[Mage]

(04-24-2018 12:34 PM)Raylan Givens Wrote:  

Anyway I would not trust an orthodox priest with a confession, the same way I would trust a Catholic priest, despite Catholics being more cucked. Each remaining Russian Orthodox priest is an informant for the state. There are non-russian orthodox, but their numbers and impact are too small to cause any cultural change and they are under constant pressure from Russian orthodox to recognize the superiority of Moscovian patriatchate.

How is that not Russophobia? Nothing to do with disagreeing with me, everything to do with statements like the above.


Where did you learn fancy words like Russaphobia? Haven't you learned from examples like Homophobia and Islamophobia that these political phobias are all bullshit words?

I am pretty Russia friendly, read my posts in Putin thread, but it doesn't mean I turn a blind eye on everything.

Maybe saying that each and every orthodox pastor is a snitch for state is an exaggeration, but the overall dependency of Russian Orthodox church from the state is obvious to anyone but old babushkas and westerners who have rosy eyes about Russia and have not really lived there.

Nothing is black and white man, west has one set of problems and east has other set of problems. You think there is a perfect country of good on this earth at 2018? It's wishful thinking. We live in Kali Yuga, the Iron age, all countries have their set of problems and their own unique brand of corruption. Book of Tarantino 25:17. "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men."

[Raylan Givens]

(04-24-2018 01:56 PM)Mage Wrote:  

(04-24-2018 12:34 PM)Raylan Givens Wrote:  

Anyway I would not trust an orthodox priest with a confession, the same way I would trust a Catholic priest, despite Catholics being more cucked. Each remaining Russian Orthodox priest is an informant for the state. There are non-russian orthodox, but their numbers and impact are too small to cause any cultural change and they are under constant pressure from Russian orthodox to recognize the superiority of Moscovian patriatchate.

How is that not Russophobia? Nothing to do with disagreeing with me, everything to do with statements like the above.


Where did you learn fancy words like Russaphobia? Haven't you learned from examples like Homophobia and Islamophobia that these political phobias are all bullshit words?

I am pretty Russia friendly, read my posts in Putin thread, but it doesn't mean I turn a blind eye on everything.

Maybe saying that each and every orthodox pastor is a snitch for state is an exaggeration, but the overall dependency of Russian Orthodox church from the state is obvious to anyone but old babushkas and westerners who have rosy eyes about Russia and have not really lived there.

Nothing is black and white man, west has one set of problems and east has other set of problems. You think there is a perfect country of good on this earth at 2018? It's wishful thinking. We live in Kali Yuga, the Iron age, all countries have their set of problems and their own unique brand of corruption. Book of Tarantino 25:17. "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men."

At no point did I say Russia was heaven on earth. I never painted a "rosy" picture or any other kind of picture about Russia. In FACT, I never once mentioned Russia until you did. I simply talked about the Orthodox Church. Orthodoxy came into existence before Russia existed as a nation-state. You simply set up a strawman and then burned it to the ground.

[debeguiled]

That smug look of a person degrading what she has been charged to protect.

Subversion is so much more effective than open aggression.

[SlickyBoy]

(04-24-2018 01:28 PM)Mage Wrote:  

We know that India hit it's peak civilization in Vedic period around 1000 BC -500 BC...

...India started declining rapidly from 500 -600 AD, which (surprise, surprise) is about the same time Islam started flowing into it...

Fixed it for ya.

BCE...CE...smh...

The globalists would be so proud of you.

[Mage]

(04-24-2018 06:46 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

(04-24-2018 01:28 PM)Mage Wrote:  

We know that India hit it's peak civilization in Vedic period around 1000 BC -500 BC...

...India started declining rapidly from 500 -600 AD, which (surprise, surprise) is about the same time Islam started flowing into it...

Fixed it for ya.

BCE...CE...smh...

The globalists would be so proud of you.

How about you drop the snarky hate - I just posted BCE...CE because that was used in the website I used to make sure I got the numbers right and I just pasted that. Plus it seemed kinda not suitable to use these in a thread when I am arguing about Paganism vs Christianity.

I have no problem using BC and AD and wishing Merry Chrismas and similar.