[tylerdurden1993]

Introduction
Just a quick introduction, I’m 24 years old from the UK. I’m about 70 kg and 5 ft 10. I would say I’m an average looking guy and every day I see guys who in my opinion look worse than me with girlfriends etc so can’t complain. However I am going to the gym regularly (a work in progress) and I would like to dress better and wear more stylish clothes. So there’s something to improve on.

Background in game
In the past I’ve only really done night game and online game. And since leaving uni I’ve done a lot worse overall. This is due to shitty logistics, going out less, tinder becoming more about attention whoring. Also I lost a lot of confidence since stepping out into the ‘real world’.
I’ve never properly done daygame properly, actually I can probably count on my hands how many I’ve done. In the daygame approaches I’ve done it’s always been awkward indirect stuff off the top of my head, I got 2 numbers but it didn’t lead anywhere.
My game plan for the near future is as follows; I’m planning on trying to do direct daygame and nightgame when I go out. When I move to a big city in a few months I’m also going to try swing dancing as I’d like to build a social circle. I’m not using online game at the moment as I’m trying to quit porn and I’ve found that swiping on tinder leads me to binge on porn, and also I’ve not been having success on it recently.

What i'm planning on doing
Because recently due to a variety of reasons I’m in a huge dry spell. I decided I need to start doing proper daygame and to hold myself accountable. I also have huge approach anxiety during the day so I’d like to lose that.
I’m planning on doing direct daygame and more specifically I’m going to use the London daygame model. This is because I’d like to approach a girl and her to know my intent. I plan to update this thread with updates as I go.
I did some approaches today so I’ll update in the post below.

[tylerdurden1993]

Approaches
Went to the nearest city on Saturday afternoon to see if I could follow through with my plans of actually doing this. After walking around for an hour I’m starting to think my approach anxiety will get the better of me. However I do end up doing 2 approaches.

Approach 1
I see a girl walking towards me and I use the opener that they recommend.
“I know this is random but you look nice” I stutter it out she just says thanks and walks off haha.

Approach 2
A while later I see a girl who walks past me and stops. I go up to her and use the same line as before she seems receptive and I go on to the next stage which is something like “What I noticed about you was …” I think I said something like you seemed like you were in your own world. After that I can’t remember what I said but I was making eye contact and she looked like she was interested. However after 30 seconds I run out of stuff to say and I bailed. This pissed me off as I could sense she was interested and I should have pushed it further.

Concluding thoughts
My approach anxiety was really strong today and it was my first proper day so I’m glad I ground out the two approaches. The second one was definitely easier than the first one but I was still anxious and bailed when I ran out of things to say. I can see this is going to be a slog to get anywhere near proficient.

[ksbms]

Keep going. Read Daygame Mastery and Infinite (and watch videos on Infinite).

[Nordwand]

Engage anyone in conversation about anything. Get used to speaking to strangers in general.

[PondScum]

"Engage anyone in conversation about anything. Get used to speaking to strangers in general."

Bingo. If you can banter confidently with strangers, all you need is a sprinkling of game tactics on top. If you can't, all the game tactics in the world will just turn you into an autistic weirdo who analyses everything to death until their brain is porridge and they've spent 100x more hours "studying" game than IRL flirting.

Some things that helped me and guys I know:
1. Talking to women whose job is to be nice to you, in shops mainly, also charity muggers, or staff at almost empty bars.
2. Volunteering with elderly and disabled people. Some of them can rabbit on amiably all day.
3. Any drama class, especially improv
4. Similar, any public speaking group like toastmasters
5. Any self defence/ martial art, I recommend judo and jujitsu because,as you progress a little, you spend most of the time sparring at or close to full force, without getting punched/kicked in the head, which is a drag if you are just doing it for sport.
6. Just in case you missed the memo, get porn out of your life forever. It's a psy ops on your body, mind and spirit.
7. Join, even if only briefly, some girl heavy activities like yoga and dancing, ideally at a venue where people mingle at a cafe etc afterwards. Be proactive in asking them for pointers about whatever you're doing.

Approach anxiety is mostly a marketing tool that Chad salesmen invented to sell ebooks to Virgins, backed up with some armchair evolutionary psychology.
What you feel is excitement. Don't stifle it, harness and project it. Make her excited too. Being alive is fundamentally thrilling, even with all the pain and tragedy. Excitement shows that you are really living, so don't fight it.
Stop diagnosing yourself with BS conditions and graciously accept that you are a human with emotions.

Now give yourself a hug and go tickle some trout.

[Teedub]

(03-24-2018 05:15 PM)ksbms Wrote:  

Keep going. Read Daygame Mastery and Infinite (and watch videos on Infinite).

They're not for beginners. It'll just be a headfuck and lead to more theorising than doing. Out of any of Krauser's products, it'd be Nitro I'd recommend for Tyler. But, more than anything I'd recommend him to keep doing rather than reading.

Tyler, try having a pint or two before your session to settle your nerves a bit. Also, after doing a fair few approaches, your adrenaline will naturally wear off, as approaching becomes normalised, and you'll also start having a bit more fun with it.

[ksbms]

(03-25-2018 09:01 AM)Teedub Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 05:15 PM)ksbms Wrote:  

Keep going. Read Daygame Mastery and Infinite (and watch videos on Infinite).

They're not for beginners. It'll just be a headfuck and lead to more theorising than doing. Out of any of Krauser's products, it'd be Nitro I'd recommend for Tyler. But, more than anything I'd recommend him to keep doing rather than reading.

Tyler, try having a pint or two before your session to settle your nerves a bit. Also, after doing a fair few approaches, your adrenaline will naturally wear off, as approaching becomes normalised, and you'll also start having a bit more fun with it.

I see no point in reading Nitro, it's pretty much a very underdeveloped Mastery. Obviously, not all in Mastery/Infinite will make sense but it will speed up the process to read both in full once, then just read up on paragraphs/section regarding particular experiences with girls or wanting to improve particular skill. I re-read all sections many times over.

Having said that, it all depends on where you stand - if you already get regular sex, are socially savvy, have big social circle, progress will be much faster. I think Krauser has a book Beginner's Daygame. What I forgot to mention is that actually Mastery/Inifinite must be accompanied by Daygame Overkill, they are fully complementary products. When you actually see Krauser doing his adventures sex game in action on beautiful girls, approach after approach, then dissecting each video bit by bit why he does what he does, it clicks so much, much faster, than just reading about it in the books. A freebie from Overkill can be read upon and seen in his How to pick up a hot girl in a shop.

I am firmly against drinking alcohol prior a daygame session (ok - half a pint to a pint once in a blue moon after you'd have a couple hundred approaches under your belt should be just fine. Myself, I always do it sober), you want to be razor sharp, otherwise you'll miss many verbal non-verbal cues and slow down the learning curve. However, what is more important, you become alcohol state dependent and very soon will be unable to approach without alcohol which may be detrimental boht to you game progression and to you health in the long term. Besides, who wants to down two pints Monday* and/or Saturday morning?!

Another reason not to drink alcohol is that it increases stress hormone, cortisol. Daygame, especially initially, can be incredibly stressful, so drinking prior a session is a negative double whammy - basically, your brain will "swim" in cortisol. Together with a potential to create an alcohol-to-be-in-state dependency is, in my opinion, a very bad idea.

*Interestingly, after Saturday, Monday is the best day for daygame. It's the same as with gyms all over the world being the busiest on Monday.

[PondScum]

Yeah, I would say no to booze too. I usually don't drink at night either. During the day I personally even avoid caffeine, no more than one normal tea anyway.

Has anyone got suggestions, or a nice link to some daygame stats that might help OP get an idea for what a "doing well" daygame funnel looks like? I've never kept track of numbers, but my gut tells me that if I open and actually have a decent daytime convo with a hundred women, I might expect to sleep with perhaps 3-5, ballpark. Obviously this varies for each guy, location, season etc etc, I'm just looking for an estimate here so that the OP has a feel for what to consider success and failure.

[dknightbro]

(03-25-2018 08:38 PM)PondScum Wrote:  

Yeah, I would say no to booze too. I usually don't drink at night either. During the day I personally even avoid caffeine, no more than one normal tea anyway.

Has anyone got suggestions, or a nice link to some daygame stats that might help OP get an idea for what a "doing well" daygame funnel looks like? I've never kept track of numbers, but my gut tells me that if I open and actually have a decent daytime convo with a hundred women, I might expect to sleep with perhaps 3-5, ballpark. Obviously this varies for each guy, location, season etc etc, I'm just looking for an estimate here so that the OP has a feel for what to consider success and failure.

I think Krauser's blog had a post that did this. And Tom Torero as well. I read it a long time ago though so you'll have to do some searching.

I can say I don't even bother with stats these days. If anything, I'll check out my stats for fun, but not read into it too much beyond that.

What I focus on is the process of game & at which stage I'm encountering blockage. Then I simply (like a scientist) execute repeatable game with a minor tweak at that blockage until I can finally continue through.

This approach works well for logically-oriented guys. And I like it a lot as it essentially does away with all the extra fluff / BS so that once you breakthrough, you have a game that works repeatedly & requires minimal energy. No need to dancing monkey tirelessly through interactions.

[PondScum]

(03-26-2018 10:03 PM)dknightbro Wrote:  

I think Krauser's blog had a post that did this. And Tom Torero as well. I read it a long time ago though so you'll have to do some searching.

I can say I don't even bother with stats these days. If anything, I'll check out my stats for fun, but not read into it too much beyond that.

What I focus on is the process of game & at which stage I'm encountering blockage. Then I simply (like a scientist) execute repeatable game with a minor tweak at that blockage until I can finally continue through.

This approach works well for logically-oriented guys. And I like it a lot as it essentially does away with all the extra fluff / BS so that once you breakthrough, you have a game that works repeatedly & requires minimal energy. No need to dancing monkey tirelessly through interactions.

I agree. I just wanted to encourage the OP by making sure he knows that sealing the deal with every other girl he opens is not realistic. For a nervous beginner, getting 1 in 100 or 200 sounds like solid success to me.

[Teedub]

Going to have to agree to disagree about the alcohol part. Krauser himself, if I remember correctly (might have been Bodi), had a few pints in his early days and talks about it not being a hindrance going forward. You won't become reliant on it.

I agree on Overkill, having video examples is better than a book - but again, it's someone else, so no substitute for one's own experience. A lot (all) of game material is full of over-intellectualised stuff to make the product appear more valuable. What's a "neg"? It's an autistic way of saying "teasing". Vibing = flirting etc. Not knocking anyone here, just pointing out the basics of marketing and how capitalism works.

In any case, Tyler, keep posting and I'm sure lots of guys will be keen to help you. You've been on the forum ages so I'm surprised you didn't post this in the main game section.

As an aside, this might be tough love, but listening to Torero and Krauser on conversion rates when you're only 24 isn't really a good barometer – they didn't even get into game until well into their 30s. If I were you, I'd listen to the Street Attraction guys, they're closer to your age and will give you a better yardstick as to where to measure yourself. This wouldn't have been an issue 10 years ago, but age matters more in England (and other Western countries) these days due to Tinder. Therefore, if everyone is hitting on girls in the 20-25 kind of range, a 24 year old has certain advantages, even over seasoned daygame veterans. There's no point avoiding that fact.

[dknightbro]

Krauser, Torero, etc. are all good sources to learn theory from.

It depends on your learning style, but something I've found useful / powerful is learning from a variety of styles.

How do you go about this? It will take time. I've spent periods of time in my game development sticking to one style until I've taken it to a certain point. Then I move on to the next.

And then I'll go out for a period just winging it. The lessons I've absorbed from previous sessions will start to marinate & the field will auto-correct nonapplicable theories.

Another big benefit of inserting periods where you just game from your own style is you begin to internalize game. The style becomes a natural extension of your personality & game will start to feel less & less like game and just socializing w/a twist as needed.

You also have a wide spectrum of tools at your disposal & can calibrate specifically. So if the girl needs more value, you have direct game experience from prior to amp it up. If she's timid & needs you to tone it down, you have indirect game experience from prior to soothe it out.

What you also need is patience. Just because you've done well in one style, doesn't mean you'll do well in another. I've gone from a high in indirect style to feeling like a complete beginner newbie again when transitioning to a new style of direct game. The payoff is long-term: I can be versatile in a wide scenario of game environments rather than being restricted to certain venues only.

Good luck.

[tylerdurden1993]

Went to the city centre today. My approach anxiety was quite bad and after walking around for an hour was ready to give up. Lots of girls with headphones in, talking on the phone and in groups.
In the end I only did one approach which I detail below.
Approach 3
Walking in the shopping mall I see a girl walking on the other side. I cross over and intercept her and say the line I've used before, she smiles, says thanks and walks off before I have the chance to say anything else. Was quite anxious and stuttered when I delivered the line.
After that I got on with some work, and went out after and didn’t approach again. I’m finding it quite hard as I’m only finding one lone girl I can approach every 10 minutes or so which makes it hard when I miss an opportunity. This is because I don’t react quickly enough, second guess myself etc.

Positives
The positives were grounding out at least one approach, and the way I did it was quite good as I saw her and decided to go for it and made it happen. Of course the execution could be better but that will hopefully come.

Negatives
Overall I’m too slow to react so miss a lot of opportunities; I also second guess myself and need to go for it more. It’s also hard as when doing this I’m in my head a lot which makes it hard to take quick action when needed.

[tylerdurden1993]

delete double post

[PondScum]

Bro, I don't mean to be discouraging, and if you think I'm out of line then forgive me, I'm trying to help you direct your attention to fruitful activities.

This thread is not helping anyone, least of all you. Do a hundred approaches as per the program. If they don't talk to you for 60 seconds, the approach doesn't count.
http://www.rooshv.com/the-roosh-program

And then come here with useful questions, rather than wasting your time writing boring posts about nothing. Your last post was on the verge of sympathy seeking, and the overthinking is autistic.

You don't have approach anxiety. It's normal to feel excited when meeting strangers. Stop bottling yourself up. Sure, your demeanour will change over time as you naturally adjust and become smoother, but don't force it. Enjoy the process and don't beat yourself up with autistic overthinking. When you go out, warm yourself up by talking to anyone, as already advised, before approaching girls you fancy.

Remember to enjoy your life, it's burning to ash every second.

End of tough love.

[Teedub]

I don't think his post was sympathy seeking at all. But I agree he needs to do 100 approaches before he posts again.

[PondScum]

Yeah, I was being a bit mean.

OP it's understandable, being nervous and so on, but posting and thinking about it is fruitless. You get through it by going through it, that's all there is to it, and since overthinking is already an issue for you, posting here about it is counterproductive.

And, as long as you quit porn now, forever, be easy on yourself. Porn is designed to poison your body, mind and spirit until you are a pig or a husk or both. If you've been abusing it since you learned your todger does more than pee, you've literally been the victim of a satanic psy ops since you were a child. I'm not pulling your leg. You are recovering from a sickness as well as sharpening your social skills, best of luck to you. Take some cold comfort from the fact that most guys in your shoes will stay stuck in the web you are wrestling out of.

And you still don't have a nonsense condition called approach anxiety. You have a body with emotions and a mind with thoughts that will never be totally under your control at all times.
Get to know your thoughts and direct them, to the extent that you can, with courtesy and compassion. Don't diagnose them as defective because they respond to stimuli.

Other members have already poopooed me for suggesting this tactic and they have their reasons, so I'll emphasize that this is NOT seduction advice, it's a SHORT TERM confidence training to help you defuse your excess nervousness. Do it a dozen times, then drop it.

Tell the girl that you are nervous. Tell her you are new at this.
Prove to yourself that nothing bad will happen. Stop trying to get a positive reaction to your suave game. Don't care about seeming creepy, lame or blue pill. Stop fighting what you feel and learn to express yourself, clumsily at first, more seductively over time. This is where I'm coming from:
https://youtu.be/AVLMYw5tW94

And before you all call me a faggot for talking about feelings.....Just make sure you throw in a good meme/gif.

[dknightbro]

Man that is pretty harsh haha.

I had all the same emotions as OP coming up and simply became desensitized over time.

I did it at my own pace though. So unless OP wants to go through your kind of boot camp training, he should still be able to improve via disciplined training.

For a hardcase newbie, AA is a real thing. I'm past that now, but I still totally get the mindset of guys just starting out with little to no prior experience with girls.

[PondScum]

Of course I can ultimately only speak from my own experience re "AA is a real thing". I think yes and no. Yes, nervousness and excitement and adrenaline are all real things, and can make us flap our mouths and twitch like a beached guppy.

But I don't think that, for a normal person who doesn't legitimately have agoraphobia, there is no need to invent a condition out of it, it isn't a sign that there's anything wrong with you, on the contrary, and dwelling on it intellectually is actively harmful.

Anyway, op, I hope you do 100 approaches, enjoy yourself, frame everything disappointing as a funny story, and report back.

[tylerdurden1993]

I wasn't trying to get sympathy in my last post.

I'm going to keep approaching when I can, however I'm only going to update this thread when i reach 100 or see a noticeable improvement etc.

Thanks for all the replies so far I am reading them and taking them into account.

[PondScum]

Good man.
I was being unkind. Your last update was about your feelings rather than a report we can comment on, and I was all like tchah, bruh, I gotz me own feelz, getmi? Which was unnecessary.