[jbkunt2]

Hi all,

My business is going well and I want to save as much as I can while that is the case.

I'm currently in Chicago, a city that I love but have been here 5 years now. Of course, the winters suck but summer is great.

I recently bought a beautiful condo here (less than a year ago) but I could rent it out.

I've spent a few months down in Austin and am a big fan. Of course, the peak of summers suck but the shoulder seasons are great.

I think the cost of living is slightly cheaper in Austin v Chicago, perhaps due to the smaller city lifestyle more than anything.

Here is the kicker though...

I could save around $30k a year in state business and income taxes. Since the new GOP tax plan these are no longer deductible on your federal taxes (above $10k) so it really is $2-3k extra a month in my pocket. Though that is a smallish % increase.

I also worry about Chicago and ILs finances. They are beyond repair, truly. The worst in the nation and tax hikes are going to come down the line. Don't know anything about Austin/TX's finances but I'm sure they are better.

Any thoughts?

What would you do?

Austin v Chicago?

Thanks.

[TravelerKai]

I think your biggest adjustment in Austin will be the horrible traffic.

Considering you come from Chicago, nothing else that would bother some guys on the forum, would bother you much if at all about Austin, aside from the traffic most likely.

Oh yeah, it's a rule, you must buy two guns when you get to Texas.

Welcome to Texas.

[topper1991]

Traffic is a wash...unless you're using rail in Chitown.

Fire Ants, Austin.

Music scene is very different...town is less refined in a lot of refreshing ways. Feels more indie to me.

Food isn't at the top of the game...Chi-town is closer to NYC on top end IMO. But, if you like BBQ and tex-mex...you're in luck.

Flights out are more challenging if you're a traveler.

Homeless population seems denser downtown in Austin.

Move, buy "at least" 2 guns and 1K ammo for each. One must be AR type platform. The other better be one you have a holster for and can carry it.

Don't have to shovel sunshine. 'Nuff said.

[Dragan]

Housing market is getting more expensive in Austin because of out of state transplants (mainly Cali). Safe to say it's still way cheaper than IL, and you'll get a lot of value.

Weather is nice, but summer is hot to people not from Texas. Spring, Fall and Winter in Austin are awesome.

Traffic is like the worst in Texas and public transit is crap. I don't know if they ever got uber and lift back down in austin, but for a while it was outlawed.

Music scene is one of the best in the US, austin in a lot of ways is like nashville, but with more than country. Best place to listen to music at a bar IMO.

Food scene for a city of only 1 million, is probably the best in the county (if we exclude San Francisco). Value on food is really good, and people are innovating a lot in Austin. Think, food trucks, sushi, barbeque, and all sorts of ethnic food.

Nature is great in Austin, a lot of people living active lifestyles, doing day trips to some of the most beautiful parts of texas. Nice big lakes for boating and partying on, and super nice walking trails on the banks of the colorado river.

Yeah, kinda overrun with yuppie hipster techbros and so on. There is a really heavy tech presence here. Big bonus is University of Texas, 50k plus kids.

You have sixth street which they block off at nights, and is party central for texas. Think something the equivalent of Beale Street in Memphis, or the Bourbon street in NO. A lot of people in Texas come into austin for the weekends because it's so great. In terms of pricing of stuff, nightlife, similar to Dallas or Houston...

The only negative is that we may have already hit "peak austin", given the rapid development and influx of people moving in since early 2000's. It may be loosing a bit of the rough on the edges charm so to speak. But a great place for younger people. Oh yeah, no income tax in texas either.

If you are into festivals, SXSW and ACL make austin like the best festival city in the US. and they're a lot of fun to be at.

Austin has a reputation among everyone else in Texas as being really socialist, like Burlington Vermont, berkeley, or ann arbour, but it is safe to be a conservative down here, although anti fa is a thing there. Too many hippys, but then a lot of them are ok, like chill hippies with a strong libertarian streak, like the founder of whole foods John Mackey. Lot of counter-cultural types in Austin like Alex Jones for example. A lot of weed smokers in austin, idk if it's decriminalized by the city of austin, but seems like it...

Since you are from Chicago one thing that sucks is liquor laws here. You have really liberal liquor laws up there. In all of texas, bars are obligated to close at 2am or earlier. You can't buy alcohol at the supermarket before 7am, except for sunday, when you can't buy before noon. You have to go to liquor stores for hard liquor, only open 10a to 9p, and completely closed sunday, which is a big bummer. That being said, Austin is like the best bar city/ drinking city in Texas.

As one poster mentioned earlier, a lot of homeless.

[MongolianAbroad]

If you're rich in either, you're living a very good life.

If you're poor in Chicago, your life is horrible.

If you're poor in Austin, you're living a very good life.

Because it's better to do nothing in Austin than to do nothing anywhere else.

I would move from Chicago to Austin even if I took a pay cut. Not having winter is worth upwards of 10k a year, at least, for me. You're talking about a pay raise? It's not even a question, as long as whatever you do can transfer with you, because starting over sucks.

[Rhyme or Reason]

I visited Austin recently. There's a group of RVF guys there, some of which I met. They were all very down to earth cool guys. I second the point made about traffic; it seems like the city's population is booming at a rate faster than the roads can be built to accommodate them. It's also extremely liberal...and this is coming from a CA native.

[John Michael Kane]

I've lived in Chicago for seven years. I highly recommend you sell your condo there, while the market is still relatively good. As you mentioned in your first post, Chicago's and IL's financial situation is dire. Jobs and businesses are leaving the state in record numbers. Rauner, a supposed conservative GOP type is a total cuck that bends over backward for all the wrong reasons. IL will be completely insolvent in our lifetimes. It is in your best interest to cash out that condo you just bought and re-sell it. Whether you move to Austin, or to some other city outside of IL is irrelevant to hanging on to real estate in IL. Dump it while you can still make money off it. If you know anything about Chicago and IL, the leftist nutjobs that run the state will just increase your property, business and income taxes even higher, forcing more people and jobs out.

Think about it for a second. You're wanting to leave IL because of the taxes. You'll be taking a business with you, and hence, income for the state government. You are one of many fish in the sea doing so. Dump that condo ASAP before you are the last person playing musical chairs with IL real estate.

[TigOlBitties]

I'm from Chicago and John Michael Kane is right. Sell your condo and never look back. Chicago and Cook County are run by retards, voted in by retards. The rest of the state isn't as bad, but they don't stand a chance because of Chicago's influence. And Rauner is a pussy.

The property taxes are already nuts, and will only get worse. The infrastructure is horribly maintained. Taxpayer money will continue to be spent erratically and inefficiently, and the parasites are never satisfied. If things don't change, Chicago is on its way to becoming Detroit. Half of the city already is.

I can't wait to get the fuck out of this state, and investing here is a terrible idea in most cases.

[John Michael Kane]

@TigOlBitties:

Right on. The sooner you sell any property in IL and get out, the more you'll save (or the less you'll lose). From a fiduciary standpoint, Illinois is unsavable. I have friends who are still in IL. I'm warning them constantly that their $7k per her property taxes are just the beginning. Chicago runs Illinois, and the union mob bosses run Chicago. They will always make sure they pay their own first, at the expense of non-government citizens and businesses. Chicago is the next Detriot and already is so throughout much of the South and West sides.

If you're getting paid bank in Chicago, great, good for you. But if you're making so-so money or own a business, leave ASAP. Either way, don't own real estate in Illinois. It is crazy high expensive with taxes and the intrinsic value of the property will only drop more, as the state's financial situation swirls towards the bottom of the toilet bowl. I thought about buying in Chicago back in 2008 when things were cheap, but I could see the handwriting on the wall that the state will never solve its financial crisis, and was headed the way of Detriot/Greece.

In short, get the hell out of Dodge. Fast.

[MKE-Ed]

(02-28-2018 05:16 PM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  

I've lived in Chicago for seven years. I highly recommend you sell your condo there, while the market is still relatively good. As you mentioned in your first post, Chicago's and IL's financial situation is dire. Jobs and businesses are leaving the state in record numbers. Rauner, a supposed conservative GOP type is a total cuck that bends over backward for all the wrong reasons. IL will be completely insolvent in our lifetimes. It is in your best interest to cash out that condo you just bought and re-sell it. Whether you move to Austin, or to some other city outside of IL is irrelevant to hanging on to real estate in IL. Dump it while you can still make money off it. If you know anything about Chicago and IL, the leftist nutjobs that run the state will just increase your property, business and income taxes even higher, forcing more people and jobs out.

Think about it for a second. You're wanting to leave IL because of the taxes. You'll be taking a business with you, and hence, income for the state government. You are one of many fish in the sea doing so. Dump that condo ASAP before you are the last person playing musical chairs with IL real estate.

John Michael Kane's comment here is spot on 100% accurate and I agree with his take on Chicago. As a former Chicago native, its very disheartening to see the current state of affairs in Chicago and Illinois in general. This is what happens when you have a city and state that is 100% democrat controlled. It use to be years ago that the downstate republicans use to keep the democrats in check. Now that's no longer the case. Governor Rauner is a total cuck republican. He's been a tremendous disappointment. Chicago's finances are in dire shape. Like John said, sell your condo. Areas of the city that were once nice, like the Jefferson Park and Portage Park area are now starting to change with crime rising the last few years. The city and state are only going to continue to raise taxes to insane levels in the not too distant future to cover all of the union pension liabilities that the city and state are on the hook for.

[jordypip23]

The irony of all ironies. I grew up in the Chicago area (mostly the suburbs with a couple city stints) but decamped to Michigan for various reasons. I actually live in the suburbs of Detroit now. The irony is, I think the suburbs of Detroit are more sustainable & priced correctly (much more reasonable taxes) than what you would find in a comparable suburb of Chicago. And the Downtown / Midtown areas of Detroit have been rapidly improving ever since the bankruptcy restructuring of 2014. Chicago is still on a downward trajectory financially. The only slight silver lining for city-based yuppies is that a lot of the suburban corporations surrounding Chicago have moved their operations to downtown Chicago (including the glam nightlife-dotted River North area just up the street). But these same corporations have also slimmed their headcount in the process. Basically this means that the private sector is still doing okay since Chicago is the huge Alpha city of the Midwest. But the fiscally mismanaged public sector is dragging the area further into the mud.

[jbkunt2]

Thanks for the fantastic feedback guys.

I have to say... I agree with nearly every point made on here regarding Chicago.

Except one... @Topper1991... the Chicago food scene isn't close to NYC. It is as good!

Another question guys... I threw down $600k on my condo so if we factor selling costs of 6% commissions, I'll probably lose a decent whack.

The same unit next door was built 6 months later than mine and sold for $620k so I should be able to get at least that much which would cover half the commission costs.

I am thinking maybe of renting it one year and selling it in 2019. This would give me a year to test the waters out in Austin. I really love Chicago and there is more to life than money but I certainly see the warning signs with the cities dire finances.

Any further thoughts?

[jbkunt2]

A few points on Austin I wanted to add:

- I work from home so traffic is no issue.

- I like the idea of living in a mid or high rise loaded with amenities.

- Seriously, there are too many homeless downtown. Fucking lefties need to get there act together and shift them elsewhere.

- The airport is pretty weak. Flights out of it tend to be pricey and I travel a lot. Oh well.

[topper1991]

(03-01-2018 07:57 AM)jbkunt2 Wrote:  

Thanks for the fantastic feedback guys.

I have to say... I agree with nearly every point made on here regarding Chicago.

Except one... @Topper1991... the Chicago food scene isn't close to NYC. It is as good!

Another question guys... I threw down $600k on my condo so if we factor selling costs of 6% commissions, I'll probably lose a decent whack.

The same unit next door was built 6 months later than mine and sold for $620k so I should be able to get at least that much which would cover half the commission costs.

I am thinking maybe of renting it one year and selling it in 2019. This would give me a year to test the waters out in Austin. I really love Chicago and there is more to life than money but I certainly see the warning signs with the cities dire finances.

Any further thoughts?

I did say top end. Takes a lot longer to get through Michelin 3* restaurants in NYC than Chicago.

Check the housing market inventory. It seems to be going up overall which would indicate we're moving toward a top end on pricing. And, check your 'move' payback overall (housing potential loss vs. income at end of year 'saved'). Might just make sense to bail and not worry about it. Long distance rentals can be a serious pain in the ass.

[John Michael Kane]

(03-01-2018 07:57 AM)jbkunt2 Wrote:  

Thanks for the fantastic feedback guys.

I have to say... I agree with nearly every point made on here regarding Chicago.

Except one... @Topper1991... the Chicago food scene isn't close to NYC. It is as good!

Another question guys... I threw down $600k on my condo so if we factor selling costs of 6% commissions, I'll probably lose a decent whack.

The same unit next door was built 6 months later than mine and sold for $620k so I should be able to get at least that much which would cover half the commission costs.

I am thinking maybe of renting it one year and selling it in 2019. This would give me a year to test the waters out in Austin. I really love Chicago and there is more to life than money but I certainly see the warning signs with the cities dire finances.

Any further thoughts?

Chicago does have a great food scene, and is one of the city's redeeming features. That being said, there's good food to be found everywhere, and it isn't worth taking a financial bath by sticking it out in a state that is clearly on a downward trajectory.

List your condo, but find an agent that will accept a lower commission. Not all work on the 6% fee. If you agree to sell through the listing agent and wait until they find a buyer, there's no split for another agent or broker. Try to negotiate a 4% fee, instead of a 3%/3% split with two brokers/agents. That should save you a few bucks.

I strongly advise against renting it out for a year for the following reasons:

- The market is still relatively good to sell, and there's no guarantee that it will still be good in a year's time. Waiting is more likely to deteriorate what is now a seller's market and the top-end for gains isn't that much higher.
- You're a businessman. You need to focus on building your business, not skimming a few thousand bucks more off the top of a real estate deal. If you sell now and break even, that's not a bad deal. Take your capital and business and focus on growing your top line.
- You can still test out the waters in Austin and other cities, even after you've sold your Chicago condo. There are short-to-medium term rentals available in major cities that you can use as a temporary home base, before you purchase a property in your new location.
- As mentioned by topper1991, being a long-distance landlord is a risky proposition. If the tenant trashes the place, you won't know until after it is too late. If you hire a property manager, they'll cut into your profits. You will have headaches of one degree or another, that's just part of being a landlord. The upside of making a few bucks on your condo by renting it out pales in comparison to the downside of the potential of waiting for a market drop or expenses related to renting the property out.
- Even if you sold the condo at a slight loss when you factor in all costs, don't sweat it. You're offloading a time bomb. Chicago is still headed down with plenty of room to fall. This isn't the time to be cute. Get your condo listed ASAP.

[jbkunt2]

Thanks again for the comments guys. All seems sound advice, and I expect to be following through with this all in the spring.

[Hypno]

(03-01-2018 08:00 AM)jbkunt2 Wrote:  

- The airport is pretty weak. Flights out of it tend to be pricey and I travel a lot. Oh well.

I would assume regionals like Southwest connect you to Houston inexpensively, and from there you can fly to anywhere in the world on par with Chicago, probably cheaper to S. America, moderately more expensive to Asia and Europe but still solid value.

Austin is left leaning in a wierd indie way. The other negative is that its a much smaller city than Chicago.

But it also has the Universtity of Texas and a lot of hi-tech. As Tech companies flee Silicon Valley Austin is one of their first refuges.

And Texas is a solidly red state.

[BlastbeatCasanova]

My best friend moved there half a year ago, seems to really like it. He did pretty well with the ladies until he locked down a GF. He actually went to PUA-type meeting once and called out the guy speaking at it in front of everyone because the dude was being a tool and advocating methods that "would probably bring a rape charge" according to my friend. I've heard that there are RvFer's there and red-pilled dudes so that sounds appealing. I've been thinking about moving there from the south but I don't have any job prospects, I'd basically be moving out there unemployed and would be roughing it until I found something, which is what my buddy did.

[puckerman]

I have lived here since August of 2004. I honestly can't recommend it anymore. It is overpriced. Traffic is almost as bad as Chicago, although it's not as large.

Allergies are another huge issue. The climate promotes lots of allergies. I would consider DFW, San Antonio, or Houston before Austin.

I might also consider San Marcos. It's halfway between the two and is said to be a lot like Austin was 40 years ago.

If taxes are what you are trying to save on, move elsewhere. Property taxes are also very high.

Mainly, I can't stand the dry weather here. I would rather live in a humid climate.

[LaFleur]

jbkunt, my rec would be to lease your Chicago condo for 12 months. Rent a loft type place in Austin for 12 months. Save the $30k on taxes, reinvest that into your business or somewhere else. Enjoy an entirely different scene for a year. Lots to like about Austin: bars, casual night life, live music, BBQ, tex mex, huge tech scene (assuming you do something related for work), tens of thousands of UT hotties, thousands more of fresh out of school chicks, etc.

After a year reassess the situation. If you have good tenants in Chicago, let them keep paying your mortgage for another year, or sell if the market is right. If you find that you hate banging latina, texan, and southern women and despise bbq, you can always move back to Chicago.

Bigger question: what type of work from home/online business is bringing in the income to generate that kind of savings on state taxes (~$300k+ I am guessing)?

[jbkunt2]

@LaFleur - my feelings exactly.

I understand why others are saying sell ASAP but I feel it’s worth holding for a year. As I can’t be certain I will settle in Austin and most economic indicators look good enough to suggest next year should be a decent time to sell as well.

[jbkunt2]

Oh and I work in financial lead gen.

[John Michael Kane]

(03-04-2018 10:06 AM)jbkunt2 Wrote:  

Oh and I work in financial lead gen.

What and who are you funneling? What's your market and who are your prospects?

[jbkunt2]

https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-sta.../#detailed

Illinois has the highest taxes residents in the country.

Number 1 of 51.

[Truth Tiger]

That's a helpful chart, thanks for posting.

Unless / until Texas repeals their gross receipt / margin tax (on total sales with minimal deductions), it's not a tax haven for businesses. Also, property taxes are fairly high though home costs are reasonable. Compared to Illinois it's definitely an upgrade but I suggest doing some numbers on the impact to your business as long as the margin tax remains in effect.