[Horus]

I'm heading back to the gym tomorrow after many months off with a shoulder injury. I still have many months of physiotherapy before I expect my shoulder to properly recover so I'll be extremely cautious and will take it very slowly. I can't/won't do any pushing movements and I am planning to d
o nothing but squats, deadlifts and pullups until I recover fully. Does this sound like a decent plan and does anyone have any further suggestions?

[SteezeySteve]

what kind of shoulder injury? Slapp tear or rotator cuff? Spare no details on whats up because it all matters.

In general if its still healing go light and focus on getting 'blood flow' to the area instead of trying to make gains. It'll help the tendons heal,and help maintain your mass without risking it getting fucked up even more.

[louiebeans]

Use the time to work on other healthy muscles and slowly work your way back to "normal" shoulder stuff, like you plan. The last thing you want to do is re-injure yourself and be back at square 1.

[S3K2]

Assuming its a major injury you don't. You skip the gym until it heals. In the mean time, diet your ass off. Your body comes first.

[SteezeySteve]

(02-16-2018 12:01 PM)S3K2 Wrote:  

Assuming its a major injury you don't. You skip the gym until it heals. In the mean time, diet your ass off. Your body comes first.

Common idea,but its wrong when we are talking tendon injuries. Movement and blood flow can actually speed up the recovery time,and prevent long term range of motion problems. You just have to be smart about it,know what you're doing,and be in touch with your body. Even if its just cardio that blood flow makes a difference. I think people think "well i might as well sit on my ass and do nothing" because they forget that movement is medicine for the body (especially in our sedentary world). Even if you are limited to power walking its still worth it.

Also don't forget shoulders have a tendency to "lock up" as a safety mechanism when injured so if you haven't done strengthing and stretching post injury that can lead to bad things long term.

If someone has never played a sport in their life and gets injured that's one thing but if you've been an athlete in some way your whole life that changes things. I'll admit its a sensitive subject because most people don't try to develop that 'mind muscle connection' and become in tune with their bodies so it makes it easy to get injured if you just jump right in and do what you did before.

I remember when i was working on straight arm planche leans heavy i could FEEL the bicep tendon being damaged,and it would sting. I was to aggressive with the stress I put on that tendon,but I got away with it because i did the most gay exercise anyone could think of....100 rep low resistance band curls just to get the nutrients delivered to that tendon to let it heal. I had a debilating shoulder injury that was likely a slap tear and did 10lbs dumbbell bench for the same reason.
To be dedicated and consistent with that kind of stuff is way harder than deadlifts because its embarrassing in public,and is no fun but its pretty damn effective. It takes a different kind of strength to not give up on training for good.

Even if you are just working 1 side of the body you should do so because it will help maintain strength in the adjacent side of the body. Obviously don't try to make strength gains and cause imbalance but if you do just enough to maintain it will be worth it.

[S3K2]

What you speak of is physical therapy. I didn't go there, didn't want to speculate. I had shoulder surgery 5 years ago and I was out of the gym for 6 months. Dieted my ass off in the mean time and did not lose any muscle in shoulder. (Tape measured). Also, after 6 months off, 2nd week in the gym I was lifting same weight as I was 6 months ago. A high protein diet will save your muscle during an injury/time off of the gym. Of course high homones does to. I was not on gear during this time as well.

Depending on the injury I agree. Working it to get it stronger will help with the recovery.

[kbell]

Took me about a year to regain my strength, not much muscle lost after 5 months no gym following the surgery (2-3 times a week pt though). Haven't really added back bench pressing and over head pushing.

[Brahman]

I had a slap tear (torn labrum). My shoulder felt like I slept on it all night, doing side planks or shoulder presses would cause that part of my body to shake. My options were surgery to stitch the tear or PT. I went with the latter. After 4-5 months of shoulder, back, and chest exercises, I was able to strengthen the muscles around my labrum and resolve the issue. However, this is something I’ll have to do for the rest of my life since the labrum doesn’t heal on its own.

[Horus]

Thanks guys. I'm going to take it very slowly and carefully.

[StrikeBack]

You gotta check if it's ok with your injury, but cable machine and band exercises were great for me while rehabbing my shoulder. It was the only kind of resistance that my shoulder was OK with, other types (weight loading) were too much.

[Horus]

(02-24-2018 09:15 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

You gotta check if it's ok with your injury, but cable machine and band exercises were great for me while rehabbing my shoulder. It was the only kind of resistance that my shoulder was OK with, other types (weight loading) were too much.

Yeah I've found the same thing. I mostly spent my time at the cable machine since I've been back. For example I can hardly do one dumbell fly due to the pain,, but the cable fly is no problem at all and feels great. I basically did an entire workout of cable chest flys today.

[Remington]

Reviving this thread.

Been struggling with shoulder problems since blowing out my arm as a collegiate athlete.

Had times where my shoulder felt fine, and others where I was in constant pain.

I've altered my workout to where my shoulders aren't strained and eliminating movements that could potentially harm them further.

I still do shoulder exercises such as dumbbell military presses that don't hurt. Shoulders looked much more defined but there is always room for improvement. They look great and I want to continue progressing.

Been doing a lot of internal and external rotation exercises before I lift to get everything warmed up.

During my workouts, my shoulders feel great, on off days or leg days, they feel achy and sometimes painful.

Been watching a lot of youtube clips for shoulder workouts that don't put too much stress on the areas where I feel pain, which has been helping.



Horus, what exercises have you been doing (besides utilizing the cable machine) to where you haven't had pain lifting?

[Horus]

Any bench press or dumbell press is out of the question for me, and I'll never do them again due the rest of my life. I've tried them a couple of times just out of curiosity to see what week happen, and I'll immediately experience sharp pain that I don't get with any other movement. I've stuck with cable exercises only, but only with lighter weight, and I stop immediately if I feel any pain. For shoulders I've been doing mostly lateral raises, but I've started incorporating dumbbell shoulder presses, which I can do quite comfortably and without pain - I don't do barbell shoulder presses because there is still a significant difference in strength on one side which I lost after my injury. It's very frustrating, and I have no idea what would happen if I tried to push through the pain. But I'm fairly sure I'll be thanking myself in twenty years for staying on the side of caution now.

[LeBeau]

I've benefited from both the Shoulder and the Scapula routines contained in the links in this data sheet:

thread-38372.html

It also wouldn't hurt to make sure you are getting massages/myofascial release around your shoulders, traps, lats, etc. since these will often be tight.

As you recover, you can also add sets of very light YTWL raises and Cuban Rotations a few times a week.

Finally, once your shoulders can handle weight, it would help your alignment to slowly increase time spent hanging from a bar (no chin ups or pull ups yet, just hang and time yourself).

[LeeEnfield303]

I have a partially torn rotator cuff ( second time...grrr). I'm working around it in the gym. Do you have specific questions?

[Labienus]

Do deadhang and pullups. Those are the two exercises that finally fixed my shoulder (I dislocated it many times).

Be careful at first, especially when you lower yourself down when doing pullups.

[Thomas Jackson]

(12-28-2018 08:51 PM)Remington Wrote:  

Reviving this thread.

Been struggling with shoulder problems since blowing out my arm as a collegiate athlete.

Had times where my shoulder felt fine, and others where I was in constant pain.

I've altered my workout to where my shoulders aren't strained and eliminating movements that could potentially harm them further.

I still do shoulder exercises such as dumbbell military presses that don't hurt. Shoulders looked much more defined but there is always room for improvement. They look great and I want to continue progressing.

Been doing a lot of internal and external rotation exercises before I lift to get everything warmed up.

During my workouts, my shoulders feel great, on off days or leg days, they feel achy and sometimes painful.

Been watching a lot of youtube clips for shoulder workouts that don't put too much stress on the areas where I feel pain, which has been helping.



Horus, what exercises have you been doing (besides utilizing the cable machine) to where you haven't had pain lifting?

You need to figure out the issue before you can address it properly. A good sports medicine dr who works with athletes is your best bet.

Once you get it figured out you can determine a training approach. Some PT or other things may be required.

[fktax]

My rotator cuff has been stuffed for a long while now. I've tried every type of exercise and physio under the sun - some has helped but none have fixed it.

A friend in Australia had trouble with his as well and his physio used "extracorporeal shockwave therapy". I can't find anyone who does this where I am in Europe right now, but I figure anything is worth a shot. I'm going to give it a go when I go back to Aus next.

Here's the physio: https://www.turramurraphysiotherapy.com....-injuries/

[godfather dust]

(02-24-2018 09:15 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

You gotta check if it's ok with your injury, but cable machine and band exercises were great for me while rehabbing my shoulder. It was the only kind of resistance that my shoulder was OK with, other types (weight loading) were too much.

I did not have a tear or anything, but managed to strain both shoulders.

I did daily light band workouts... Tied a knot in a band, put the knot in a door and did various exercises the physical therapist showed me.

I also used a heating pad to great benefit.

Make sure to so whatever home assignments you get from physical therapy.

[godfather dust]

(01-04-2019 12:48 PM)Labienus Wrote:  

Do deadhang and pullups. Those are the two exercises that finally fixed my shoulder (I dislocated it many times).

Be careful at first, especially when you lower yourself down when doing pullups.

I think these are too hard for someone who hasn't been in a gym in a while, who is also hurt.

[Labienus]

That may be true. Maybe start with dumbbell lateral raises (or use cables) and when your shoulder is a bit stronger switch to those.

[Kieran]

For me Joe Defranco's recommendations have allowed me to keep working through several shoulder injuries over the years that had been ongoing. Those are:
- get rid of overhead pressing completely
- do one hundred band pull aparts per day (I use the mini band for these, but I also programme band pull aparts in my training sessions with harder resistance in the typical 3-4 x 8-12 format as they're the best rear delt work I've found)
- include isolation work such as lateral raises for shoulder work (I'd rather be overhead pressing, but my shoulders will start playing up after a short time if I do them
- Joe recommends fixing form on the flat bench, but for me I had to get rid of it entirely and replace it with incline barbell presses which I can do pretty much pain free

[flyinghorse]

I fucked my shoulder in a motorbike exercise and knoq all about recovering from it unfortunately.

First tip is to focus on what you can do and do that well. For me it was squats, deadlifts, lat pull downs, bicep curls, face pulls - that alone was enough to keep in good shape.

What was hardest for me was training shoulders and chest (obviously).

Shoulders were slightly easier to train - I just used light weights and did high reps with perfect form.

Chest was near impossible but I could fortunately do flys at low weight (we're talking only 20lb each dumbbell). All you can do until your ligaments and muscles begin to heal (and they heal slowly) is 10 sets of flys and high reps (over 12). If you do this you will save most of your chest muscle until you can more exercises.

I'm 1.5 years from injury now and I still cant do dips and I cant lift more than 150lb on the bench press (although my other lifts are good) and my body looks as good as ever.

[flanders]

(03-01-2019 05:29 AM)Kieran Wrote:  

For me Joe Defranco's recommendations have allowed me to keep working through several shoulder injuries over the years that had been ongoing. Those are:
- get rid of overhead pressing completely
- do one hundred band pull aparts per day (I use the mini band for these, but I also programme band pull aparts in my training sessions with harder resistance in the typical 3-4 x 8-12 format as they're the best rear delt work I've found)
- include isolation work such as lateral raises for shoulder work (I'd rather be overhead pressing, but my shoulders will start playing up after a short time if I do them
- Joe recommends fixing form on the flat bench, but for me I had to get rid of it entirely and replace it with incline barbell presses which I can do pretty much pain free

DeFranco doesn't advocate getting rid of overhead pressing at all, instead substituting OHP with shit like neutral grip presses and log presses, or light push presses. That's not very good advice on the face of it since it's sort of like telling a battered wife that her husband's rage is inevitable and she should consider not scorching dinner if she doesn't like getting hit.

That being said, if he doesn't include anything like german hangs he's not much of a strength coach, nor does he understand the role of mobility or even how there's no such thing as a row that can loosen a terminally tight pec or bicep, which is the true culprit to 99% of shoulder problems and something that approximately 100% of gym rats have.

Mobility drills from men's gymnastics are about thirty years ahead of even 'cutting edge' modern bodybuilding shit like anything I've read from DeFranco's interviews. I predict in the next ten years or so there's going to be about a dozen fads from men's gymnastics creeping into mainstream bodybuilding to the benefit of bodybuilding. Hopefully that twat is reading this since you can only crib from T-nation for so long. Claiming obvious bullshit like one in fifty athletes are genetically capable of overhead pressing is insult enough to anybody who can think critically (yes, he said this in interviews repeatedly, and actually gets paid money for coaching people) so he deserves a few of my snooty comments.

60s era bodybuilders were extremely mobile in the shoulders compared to anybody from the 90s on (an obvious tell is their reliance on behind the neck pressing variants and shoulder dislocations in between sets of bench pressing). I suggest you look into anything mentioned if you are interested in less fucked up shoulders but proceed slowly because years of damage takes a lot time to undo.

[Fortis]

https://www.intensemuscle.com/forum/main...f-the-time

I found this old gem from Dante Trudel about shoulder problems.

I'll post it here in case you don't want to click the link:

Quote:

With a large towel or broomstick I want you to hold it with straight arms for the entire time of what i describe in the following movement--a large "rolled up like a rope" beach towel works good but honestly a longer broomstick (without the bristles) works best in my opinion.

Start out with it with a really wide grip (with straight arms) in front of you (on your quads) and with straight arms bring it up and overhead and then down and back to the middle of your back--STRAIGHT ARMS ALL THE WAY--this is going to be very difficult and hard the first couple times out and then will be "old hat" with time----and its going to be painful in a stretching pump kind of way---i want 50 reps each time you do this--one repetition is from in front of your face (all with straight arms) to up overhead and back, and then down all the way to the middle of your back and then back up overhead to in front of your face again (again all with straight arms)--the important part of the movement is the area overhead that is really tight--do all of this carefully/slowly---dont just whip it over and back---if your hand is slipping off the broomstick even with the widest grip, or you cant bring your arms over straight and the start bending on you, you have some serious shoulder inflexibility and need to work this hard and get up to speed (or you could just need a longer broomstick too)--again do all of these revolutions controlled and carefully--push into the stretch as you go along toward the 50 revolutions, your chest will be pushing outward and your shoulders rolling back--your shoulders are going to blow up with so much blood its going to be incredibly painfull pumpwise--Do this once a day at nite as many times a week as you can---sometimes I have people do it every single day---but every time you do it try to move your grip inward (thats the key)----its going to be very hard to do but try your best to move your grip inward for the next 2-4 weeks and your range of motion with shoulders will increase dramatically and any impingement and the majority of other problems should be gone in 2 weeks--also try to move your grip in as you are doing the 50 revolutions--start off with a stretching but relatively easy 10 to warm up some, then try to move your grip in even by a centimeter if you can for the next 20 revolutions and then at 30 try to move the grip in another centimeter--really try to push what you can do stretchwise once your warmed up here--trust me this sounds easy but your going to be muttering "fuck you dante" after you get to your 25th revolution--Ive cured too many shoulder problems with this simple movement now its pretty ridiculous, and this and a menthol rub applied liberally daily and before sleep has cured alot of shoulder/bicepital tendonitis in trainees ---Heres a pic attached to this post so you can get an idea (thanks to a trainee of mine who cured his shoulders with this)--but remember the broomstick goes overhead and all the way back to the middle of the back (he just drew the start of the movement when you begin)

Sorry about the wall of text, but this is really how he wrote it.