[jordypip23]

(08-12-2018 03:30 AM)dies irae Wrote:  

Agreeableness, laziness and risk-averse behavior go hand in hand.

Examples:
90% of the businesses fail in 5 years, so just get a job --> agree
Yolo! act irresponsibly --> agree
Be nice to women --> agree
Body positivity --> agree
Your life sucks because you are [insert identity] --> agree

I think this is why agreeableness is positively correlated with blue pill thinking. Not necessarily because of agreeableness itself but because people tend to agree with things that don't require taking risks, responsibility, or hard work.

I will also add that not every red pilled man is actually red pilled. Most so-called red pilled people are only red pilled because they found new enemies (like women) to blame for their failures in life.

I think this is true, especially your final line. I think there are different red pill "levels". At the blue pill extreme you have extremely pillow soft beta cucks. Red pill extreme might be Putin-esque alpha chad warriors. Some of us on this forum might not have reached the extreme red pill level yet (I don't think I have), but fortunately the vast majority of us on this site are not pillow soft beta cucks either.

[RatInTheWoods]

Its the same with any view or opinion really.

"Why are they left wing/right wing"?

"Why do they believe in a god?"

"Why don't they like avocados?"

Everyone thinks different, and is built and wired up very different.

[The Catalyst]

The way I think about it is, for a lack of a better term, "archetypes".

I believe the way it works is based on evo-psych. Whether you're progressive, conservative or libertarian is based on your instincts that your biology thinks is best to survive. This is r/K. This is one example, probably the most prominent of an archetype but there are others(such as whether or not you're a social circle person, alpha/beta/sigma, maybe even the kinds of girls/relationships you like, but in this case "redpill"ness). I would call the sum of all your sub-archetypes your "archetype". Your archetype then has specific instincts which shape your beliefs as to what you inherently think is true or feel is right. This results in having a bunch of archetype specific "strong opinions". (Weak opinions are non-archetype related and/or are on an archetype similar to but not exactly what you believe)

The two conjectures I have:

-You cannot "knock someone off" a strong opinion, no matter how persuasive you are nor how wrong they are.

-You cannot give someone a strong opinion they wouldn't eventually have anyway, if they were aware of the existence of that opinion. No matter how persuasive you are, nor how right you are.

This is manifested in the phrase "you can't change people's minds". I would imagine pretty much the only way peoples' minds change is if the environmental/societal pressures make it so their archetype changes, thus the archetypal-related beliefs change as well(or they had a weak opinion and were made aware of a strong opinion). Wall Street Playboys actually says "smile nod and agree" based on that principle- the vast majority of people won't change, exceptions are only because of the law of large numbers.

[Kid Twist]

I would term the above "The Biological determinism of BS"

Quote:

-You cannot give someone a strong opinion they wouldn't eventually have anyway, if they were aware of the existence of that opinion. No matter how persuasive you are, nor how right you are.

Impossible to argue against, but my feeling is that you are correct anyway.

[Fortis]

I suspect a lot of it has to do with your ability to adapt to suboptimal situations. I suspect many of us are just too hard headed to follow the script so here we are. Ive always had a mild anti-authority streak so I would never be much good at being a cog. I suspect I would have been exiled if I grew up 1000 years ago. I simply won't accept certain things. Of course, this comes to its own set of issues and I sometimes do think it is better to just be blind to all this stuff. I feel like I'm constantly holding information back from others so I can maintain my stealth.

This is especially annoying since most Blacks are so far left that they experience anger when I say "stop blaming da white man for everything."

[Kid Twist]

^I think about this often and have realized that masculine men, or a trait of of such that are intelligent, is to have well tuned BS detectors. I am in a very advanced profession and it is amazing how few people really think about what they are doing in a truly honest and analytical way. Most are just sheep; good workers who are inertia driven. As a woman there's no problem with this as you fulfill your aim. As a man it's a major weakness in terms of efficiency and learning.

[stugatz]

It's a very good question. I often fall into the trap of assuming that bluepill = cuckboy bitch, but I have met quite a few men who are popular with women, socially adept, and bluepilled. My younger brother, for example, isn't an unhinged Antifa supporter who walks around calling himself a male feminist, but last time we hung out he was astounded that I thought a less sexually experienced woman would be a better partner. I complained about how Tinder's destroyed dating and I hate the smartphone, and he looked at me like I'd lost my mind.

I assume if the current setup with dating/women/politics/society is cruel to you or doesn't satisfy you, you'll be far more likely to question it. For this setup to not only satisfy you but to seem better than it's ever been? In history? Then I'd assume you have to be in the top 15 or top 10 percent of men socially, therefore all of the benefits of technology and sexual liberation flow right in your direction.

He watches Handmaid's Tale, too. I'm serious. Maybe part of him realizes it's feminazi oppression porn, but it's hard to unplug from what the popular people are supposed to be watching to seem "woke" or some shit.

[Super_Fire]

Testosterone levels, how do they work?

Seriously though, as has been said, the fear and gut-sucking depression of being ostracized, and of admitting that a lot of what you've been taught and believed is BS, is big motivator for most people.

Put another way, ignorance is bliss.

[mr-ed209]

Probably because of investment in future plans and/or people around them. I grew up and largely lived in a small town during which time I was largely blue pilled. It wasn't until I travelled and had a lot more social experiences, got burned from being naive and started to piece together how things really work. Before that I was deluded that people had any interest outside finding 'the one'.

It baffles me at times to talk to blue pill friends as to how far they can push their delusions and blame others for their ignorance. I remember trying to help a friend out with some game over a girl he'd met at a party. He ended up telling me I was wrong and 'maybe the girls you've met are like that'. Surely enough the chick lost interest and he got nowhere. Rather than implying any rational analysis of how he could have done things differently he just chalked it up as her not being 'right for him'. My insistence of how long are you going to keep that belief up? (we're in our mid 20s) were largely met on deaf ears.

For many men it's ego. It takes a large amount of humility to admit you could be doing things wrong - especially when it comes to your 'skills' with the opposite sex. For me it took me fucking up a major oneitis for me to finally swallow the pill and accept 'I am shit at this and I need to improve'. That's when I started to read things, understand and I finally started having predictable successes.

[JekyllAndHyde]

Comfort zone.

When someone is entrenched deep into their comfort zones they don't feel motivated to overcome difficulties and grow as a person.

I've seen men redpilled because they've experienced first hand or observed shit that they don't want to experience themselves at least again.
Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.

(08-11-2018 04:54 AM)x1x1 Wrote:  

what red pill? the fact blacks/Asians third worlders are holding society together by doing the jobs that natives don't want to do. The fact that women are doing work when men have simply vanished from the workplace. right wing red pill conspiracy is just that. this red pill is absolute baloney. I have never bought and will never buy it.

[Seadog]

I think a good number of people simply don't have to. If you're a ripped natural with an even tolerable personality, "Be yourself" is pretty damn good advice, along side advice like weight, clothes, height, disabilities etc don't matter. Not wrong per se, but hardly the whole truth.

Being below average socially in school, I was confronted with a few glaring inconsistencies. Much like 17 yos who get piss poor advice about college from parents and counselors like "follow what you love" and "don't worry about the money", people who I trusted parroted on and on about "Don't worry about it, it will happen eventually" and other nonsense while I should have been going to the gym. After about 10 years of this with no real social progress I finally came to the realization that a lot of the most important people in my life gave me shitty advice. Unintentionally I think, and maybe suitable for a different time and place, but shitty nonetheless.

If, "be yourself" had of worked out for me after a few years as it did for others, then maybe I never would have gone down the rabbit hole.

Being logical I also find it amazing that when people are presented with these sorts of inconsistencies, they will fight tooth and nail like they're the church against Galileo using any means to shut them up and make them dissapear. When James Damore logically pointed out lots of fallacies of google, he was crucified instead of actually having the points he brought up discounted. I simply can't grasp who on one hand women can say in the same breath height doesn't matter, but 6' minimum.

[EvilStoic]

Being red-pilled is hard.

They rather choose the path of least resistance and rationalize everything to make sense.

[nek]

(08-15-2018 12:09 PM)Seadog Wrote:  

I think a good number of people simply don't have to. If you're a ripped natural with an even tolerable personality, "Be yourself" is pretty damn good advice, along side advice like weight, clothes, height, disabilities etc don't matter. Not wrong per se, but hardly the whole truth.

This kind of explains why women don't understand the impact of their actions or consequences really well. They're just successful enough socially that they never have to really evaluate who they are, or can simply tell themselves that the other person is the problem. A woman can be in the wrong in a relationship, be it a friendships, dating, whatever, and within a week can already have a new social circle. The consequences are never harsh enough of long lasting enough for her to take a step back and think "what the hell am I doing".

[ilostabet]

One of my oldest friends (12 years) has had all the reasons to 'wake up' - and yet he doesn't. We talk about stuff, I show him practical results, evidence, but he is still - I'm sorry to say - pretty much a blue pilled loser. He's a fairly good looking guy, with some bad habits. He can get decent girls, decent enough job, etc. But he just won't progress in his career, or have a good relationship, because he's ultimately as blue pilled as they come.

He's had a few girlfriends and all of them, ALL, completely boss him around. Some of them I knew before they were together and they were completely normal girls. When they start to date him, they become succubuses. The worst example is this: the girl prohibited him (yeah, seriously) to hang out with us (he did it in secret), wasn't putting out, wasn't nice to him, didn't cook, clean or anything, didn't pay for anything, he was always giving her presents, expensive ones at that, making surprises. And then she decides to study abroad one year. He doesn't break up. He calls her regularly and on New Year's Eve he skips the party we have every year for close friends and just skypes with her for a bit, until she goes out to party (!).

Some people are just incapable of waking up. It doesn't matter how much you try, how many pieces of evidence you put out, how much they get burned for their blue pilled actions. Nothing. For someone to wake up, it needs to come from them. They need to seek it. I honestly stopped trying with this friend, besides giving him my opinions. I just try to be a good role model and that is, in the end, the best you can do.

[2 Cool 4 U]

Because of how some non-redpill guys were raised, brainwashed by college professors or what they read on social media sites

[Philosopher]

As someone with high agreeableness, I did not get red-pilled until mid 20s when my girlfriend of 5 years, with whom I bought the apartment and paid to renovated, began cheating on me. I spent the last of my money to rent an apartment with a couple of colleagues and had to forgo food for 3 weeks. I felt so much pain that my brain for the first time became open to endless possibilities. Wrote poetry, reread Plato and Marcus Aurelius, watched "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless mind" and when met a new girl - put her on a pedestal and scared her off. Then - met a new girlfriend in the park and while being with her, read "Gates of Fire" about the 300 Spartans. When I go bored of banging her, googled "How to Cheat on your GF" and Roosh's article came up...

Perhaps dudes with high agreeability need to hit rock bottom to get red-pilled, something that is unlikely to happen if they stay in their comfort zone. Most people will ask for help from relatives in my situation but I was too proud. Maybe high stubbornness is another factor?