[Screwston]

Been happening to me on campus. I've gotten a few numbers and they're bullshitting. I expect it from all girls but especially with younger sluts.

[jariel]

(09-19-2011 01:32 PM)Mace Wrote:  

Most girls these days are even afraid to pick up the phone. They grew up with their noses buried behind a screen. They hate awkwardness and confrontation more than anything. You can try calling her but then you're "creepy" because you're a "random" calling "randomly". They won't pick up. You've blown yourself out.

You defuse this by exchanging numbers.

[jariel]

(09-19-2011 02:42 PM)houston Wrote:  

Been happening to me on campus. I've gotten a few numbers and they're bullshitting. I expect it from all girls but especially with younger sluts.

The number itself means nothing.

I mean really, the game isn't really on until she responds.

I think it says more about dudes that they will chase these flakes than the flakes themselves.

[Mace]

Here's an experience my buddy had recently while running day game on campus on a college girl. He's a slightly older guy, slept with 40+ girls.

Thursday afternoon. I watched him while in set. He stopped her on the campus, opened well, she was giggling, asking him questions. After 5 minutes they exchanged numbers.

Below was their subsequent text exchange:

(Friday ~ 4 pm)
"Hey I found the used bookstore ok yesterday. I could hire you as my personal tour guide. The pay is bad but there's excellent benefits. How's your day going?"

(Friday ~ 7 pm)
"Pretty good, I'm at the rookie party for my field hockey team and its a bit crazy. I'm glad you found the bookstore aha"

(Friday ~ 10:30 pm)
"I have an intuition about you ...as the rookies and frosh at the party are going crazy, you're the calm one .  How long have you been in field hockey for?"

(Friday ~ 11 pm)
"I've played for the varsity team at ABC School for 4 years now. The rookie initiation is always a good time aha."

(Friday ~ 11:15 pm)
"4 years, wow. You're like the house mother to these kids haha. Kidding. 4 years is great.  Good for you. My personal favourite sports are tennis and skiing."

(Friday ~ 11:30 pm)
I can respect that. I wish I was better at tennis but skiing is for sure awesome

(Friday ~ 11:45 pm)
"I'll tell you all about my trip one day.  We should meet for coffee sometime. Do you know XYZ Cafe on ABC Street."

*Crickets.* No reply.

(Saturday morning)
"OMG I just saw your twin."

*Crickets.* No reply.

(Sunday morning)
"Had a great day at the zoo. Saw a fish that reminded me of you."

*Crickets.* No reply.


Three consecutive texts with no reply. He had high compliance initially, she was responding promptly, volunteering information about herself, establishing rapport. But by jumping the gun and asking her out too early he scared her off. Now she won't answer his texts. To borrow Roosh's analogy, he scared the cat.

Now if he had kept the momentum going with the texts, built more rapport, called her a couple days later and asked her out, he'd be in there. Now he's blown himself out.
 
 

[Mighty Mouse]

(09-19-2011 01:32 PM)Mace Wrote:  

You can try to prolong the interacton, but she has places to go, you have places to go. Instant dates while ideal are usually not feasible.

If a girl is really into you, she will postpone appointments to join you for an instant date. Nothing special.

(09-19-2011 01:32 PM)Mace Wrote:  

I want to hear from the cats in here doing day game on college-aged girls. What's your experience?

Send me a quick PM, and I will send you a link back that could be helpful for you.

[Mace]

(09-19-2011 10:38 AM)playa_with_a_passport Wrote:  

You have any idea how many guys approach even an average 5 lizard in America on a daily basis? Chances are she’s not even going to remember you after a day or so and you'll get the dreaded “Who are you?” response assuming you even get a response at all. Mighty Mouse is correct, your goal in day game should solely be to try to be good enough at it to pull an insta date or a same day meet later in the evening. Remember not only are you competing with other guys who holla at her during the day, but also with thirsty dudes who hit her up on Facebook/online, co workers, “Friends” who are still campaigning for pussy, ex boyfriends, dudes at the club, Starbucks baristas, the Mail man, etc. So the chances of you ever seeing this girl ever again are inversely proportionate to how young and hot she is. Lizards don't flake because they are inconsiderate sadistic cunts (well some of them are), they flake mostly because there are just too many dudes in their lives trying to pull them in every which way and something better just came up.

This is one of those oft-repeated PUA tropes that has little basis in reality. It might be true in black/Hispanic neighbourhoods and in the Mediterannean, but your average meek middle-class white/Asian/Indian guy is terrified of approaching women. He's likely bungled his first few clumsy attempts at a cold approach, and he'll refuse to approach any more to salvage his ego from rejection. So no the average 5 lizard doesn't get approached 20x a day - not to the point where she's being asked for her number anyhow.

As for juggling multiple guys, yes it's true for your attention-whoring peroxide blonde skanking it up at the clubs every weekend. But there's just as many girls spending their weekends working on their lab report or staying home watching Twilight. They actually care about school. They don't go out much because they're sick of immature frat dudes and lame inexperienced dorks. They hop on the bus, go to their 80% chick lectures, study at the library, get involved in a club or play some intramural sport, and hop on the bus back home. They're not meeting a lot of new guys. They're the innocent cute "good girls" with tight little 20 yr old bodies who haven't grown calloused because they haven't been pumped and dumped by multiple players. These are the lizards you want to attract when hunting at college campuses.

[iknowexactly]

(09-19-2011 03:06 PM)Mace Wrote:  

Three consecutive texts with no reply. He had high compliance initially, she was responding promptly, volunteering information about herself, establishing rapport. But by jumping the gun and asking her out too early he scared her off. Now she won't answer his texts. To borrow Roosh's analogy, he scared the cat.

Now if he had kept the momentum going with the texts, built more rapport, called her a couple days later and asked her out, he'd be in there. Now he's blown himself out.
 
 

I don't know if I agree here. I'm imagining when she met him:

What was her state? If she was actively, consciously horny, thinking of how she could get laid, and he was within her parameters, I think she would have just said yes to the coffee date.

Paul Janka- "Difficult women remain difficult."

If she isn't really into fucking- consciously thinking about getting laid, masturbating herself at night-- she's just going to be an ambivalent fuck anyway.

Isn't the idea of finding the ones who are already in state more efficient than trying to alter someone's whole mood and where they are at that point in their lives?

[speakeasy]

Mace, reading that text dialogue I think by her second text the handwriting was on the wall. He was clearly putting a lot of personality into his texts and being playful. Her texts came across as dull and seemed like she was giving back just enough to not seem rude. Also noticed she asked him no questions. She gave nothing that would indicate that there's more about him that she wanted to know.

If she's not being light and playful back and she isn't asking you anything, then you're walking down a dead end street.

[Screwston]

I'm thinking of using something like this if the girl is slowly going MIA after I get the number. "I put 50 down that I can make you nut at least 3 times".

[jariel]

(09-21-2011 03:21 AM)houston Wrote:  

I'm thinking of using something like this if the girl is slowly going MIA after I get the number. "I put 50 down that I can make you nut at least 3 times".

If the girl is going MIA, she doesn't want your dick.

Sounds thirsty, bad look.

[CupCake]

(09-19-2011 11:52 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

There is no perfect "formula" for how long to wait. Its an art not a science.

I think this is the quote of the thread. Personally, I rely almost exclusively on text and I text when I want to. I think it's generally a good idea to text her right away to make sure she has your name and to throw a little joke at her so she has a record of having a funny conversation with you.

When texting or calling you need to check your motivation first. Your motivation is going to come across in your tone and content and will greatly affect your outcome. Just have fun with it and never expect her to answer.

[CupCake]

(09-19-2011 01:32 PM)Mace Wrote:  

I want to hear from the cats in here doing day game on college-aged girls. What's your experience?

I think you expressed it pretty well on post #23. I rely on texting for those very same reasons.

(09-19-2011 03:06 PM)Mace Wrote:  

"Hey I found the used bookstore ok yesterday. I could hire you as my personal tour guide. The pay is bad but there's excellent benefits. How's your day going?"

I think this is a decent start but I think he should focus on his use of language. "How's your day going?" is not how someone would word that question in everyday language. It sounds canned. He should try to focus on sounding on text as he does in person. Fail to do this and you'll seem awkward and stuffy.

"I have an intuition about you..."
"Good for you. My personal favourite sports are..."
"I'll tell you all about my trip one day..."
"We should meet for coffee sometime..."

I don't mean to be mean but some of this stuff made me cringe. None of this sounds like natural language. Ask yourself how you might convey these thoughts to your friends and notice the difference.

Now allow me to demonstrate how this girl is going to emotionally interpret the following:

(09-19-2011 03:06 PM)Mace Wrote:  

"I have an intuition about you......you're the calm one . ..."


"You're like the house mother to these kids haha. Kidding. 4 years is great. Good for you..."

"I've been noticing a lot about your personality. I bet you're really goofy in X situation, but please don't be offended by me saying that! It's only a joke! Seriously, it's only a joke."

(09-19-2011 03:06 PM)Mace Wrote:  

"I'll tell you all about my trip one day."

"I'm hoping to get an opportunity to tell you about how interesting I am."

(09-19-2011 03:06 PM)Mace Wrote:  

"OMG I just saw your twin." "Had a great day at the zoo. Saw a fish that reminded me of you."

"I was thinking about your just now. I was having a lot of fun today and just wanted to let you know. Oh, by the way, I was thinking about you again."

After all the obvious interest that your friend has been giving this girl, what does SHE say?:

(09-19-2011 03:06 PM)Mace Wrote:  

I can respect that. I wish I was better at tennis but skiing is for sure awesome

Yeah, what you're interests are "ok".

He layered far more attention on her than she did on him and came off as needy as a result. He also used poor language to do it. I think he needs to cut the emoticons and stop acting so terribly interested.

[Mace]

Cupcake, appreciate the solid bro! I'll advise him to chill on the texting and not sound so stiff and formal. It can easily be construed as social awkwardness.

This example is a testament to how precarious cold approach game can be. He had a great interaction, vibing well, got the number. Then he bungled it with some awkward texts and jumping the gun too soon. Now she won't speak to him anymore.

Getting the number is not a big achievement these days. It's the transition from number -> meet. This is where a lot of guys lose girls.

What would you have done under the circumstances? What are some good initial texts to send out to keep the momentum going? How do you maintain value and build rapport without bombarding her with questions and sounding needy?

Some examples of good follow-up text game would be great.

[CupCake]

Ya know, I think it's important to focus on how you are coming off and not on particular lines in general. Remember, it's not WHAT you say but HOW you say it. Again, girls are going to emotionally interpret everything.

"How am I responding to her and how is she responding to me?"

This is the question I ask myself more and more. It's helped me tremendously. You need to be conscious of how someone is saying something and respond accordingly. If she's not that interested, move on. If you're acting too interested then you need to pull back. It's a delicate balance but you'll learn it with time.

Just stop caring so much and have fun with it.

[Staged]

I do a lot of day game and read Nick Hoss blog. He has a good post on what to do when she wants you number and day game closes and flakes. Really helped me alot with my flakes.

[TheWolfHowls]

Actually texting them the same day is better than worse because your fresh on their mind and you want to keep that momentum going. It's only thirsty if u keep pestering her with texts.

[Giovonny]

(09-22-2011 06:55 PM)CupCake Wrote:  

Just stop caring so much and have fun with it.

Ya, you can't live and die with each approach. You will drive yourself crazy. This stuff is supposed to be fun not depressing.

[Gmac]

Mace, in a nut shell:

Your friend's text game could use some improvement. He comes across as a little dull. He also tried to go straight from step A to step C, skipping step B. If he had been a bit more engaging, it would have been easy to ask, "anything fun planned for the weekend?" Then after the exchange, asking her out for the following week. He skipped a vital step, and it's likely that she wasn't very interested to begin with. I imagine he probably didn't make enough of an impression in 5 minutes, which isn't usually enough time to build a connection.

He also sent way too many texts after she stopped responding. A second one in a row a few days later is ok, any more is overkill (his last few were needy/creepy).

[Mace]

This player recommends calling the next day instead of texting + seeding a date - and has the stats to back it up. I used to think this strategy was too pushy but I think it's best - escalating from the momentum off the initial interaction is key.

http://www.seductionpath.com/posts/should-i-call-her

Quote:

Test conditions
Now, I’m back with my research for the current year, to be more specific: 01.01.2011 -> 30.04.2011.

Here I’m going to concentrate on another question: What’s the perfect algorithm for calling them.

Here are the conditions of the test:

only number closes, no online game
I usually got day game numbers in 5 minutes or less using direct game (=> lack of comfort)
80-90% of my closes are from day game so I’ll disregard the rest
My results: After ~80 number closes I had 10 new lays (*) in 4 months. (One in eight girls I number closed was a lay)

* one was a social circle lay and another one was a previously sarged girl I number closed a second time

When you should give up calling:
after you called her 5 total times without an answer (2 times the first day, 2 times 3 days after, etc)
after 3 consecutive flakes (even though I could get her on the phone easily)
on 3 successions or 2 weeks of comfort calls and flakes or comfort calls and excuses when I invite her out
^^^ the last one can be translated to a mathematical formula: (3*successions || 2*weeks)(comfort_calls && flakes || comfort_calls && excuses)

Techniques that succeeded:
1st place: Day 1: comfort call + seeding a date, Day 2: fclose
2nd place: Day 1: comfort call, Day 2++ (a few days of no contact) and no later than Day 7: comfort call + fclose
3rd place: Day 1: meet directly, Day 2: fclose
* Day 0 => the day I’ve met her, Day 1 => the day after

What I learned from my experience:
delete girls that flake on you 3 times (even though they keep the phone convo)
delete girls that you couldn’t meet with in 2 weeks
delete girls that don’t answer after 5 total calls (all, of course, spread over 1 week)
dirty fuck the rest

On day game approaches that last under 15 minutes definitely call them the next day! You work with momentum and they remember you, reactivate the emotions they felt, etc. You're losing their interest on each day that passes.

[jariel]

(09-30-2011 07:06 PM)Mace Wrote:  

This player recommends calling the next day instead of texting + seeding a date - and has the stats to back it up. I used to think this strategy was too pushy but I think it's best - escalating from the momentum off the initial interaction is key.

What did I say earlier in this discussion?

Quote:

I also think initially dudes need to be implementing phone game before text game. If you call her, she will take you serious. I keep the game real simple. We meet, I call her the next day and make plans to do something shortly after, in some cases the same day depending on the circumstances. I look at it as if I get rejected, then she was going to reject me three days from now anyway, but now I've saved some time and can move on. I think guys wait hoping to stave off rejection, and that's a bad move. The quicker you move, the better, and even if it doesn't work out, then it wasn't going to anyway.

[Mace]

jariel I think you're right. If she's down she's down, if she's not she's not. I think it's one of those things that only experience can teach you.

Paul Janka said "difficult women remain difficult." Either she's into you or she's not. Don't waste time with time wasters.

In the end it's all just a massive numbers game. Never get too emotionally invested in any one interaction.

My new strategy: get digits, callback texts that night, call the next day and seed date.

[Basil Ransom]

(09-18-2011 07:47 PM)jariel Wrote:  

The problem I have with this line of thinking is that it's completely one-sided.

The end result doesn't necessarily have anything to do with you.

A dude shouldn't translate "well she didn't pick up my call" to "I need to tighten up my game".

If you want to keep improving and stay sane, you have to have two seemingly contradictory beliefs:

1. Her flaking was beyond my control.

2. I could have gamed her better such that my chances of success were higher.

It's like playing poker. Even if you play the best hand possible, you won't always win.

There are always ways to improve. You could look at things in the interaction you could have improved. Maybe those things were dealbreakers, maybe they weren't, but addressing them will enhance your game over time.

----------------------------------------------------------------

I think the difference in results between "very good" and merely "good" phone/text game is smaller than you'd expect. If I have a very clever text for a chick who isn't into me, she may respond, but not agree to meet up.

I've alternated between texting to call and texting only. I think texting to call is at least as good, and it makes it way easier to set up a date. And young girls by and large do not pick up phone calls from unknown numbers. Even if they do have your number, they're desperately afraid of 'awkwardness' and will not pick up. Texting her after that is kind of awkward - she will feel bad for ignoring you and will not want to face her rudeness by talking to you. Sending a clever text or two first is superior.

But if you text her first, you've warmed her up. She starts thinking, "this guy's funny and cool." Like Mace said, young college girls avoid awkwardness at all costs. If you've never heard the term 'awkward turtle,' all this may come as a surprise to you. 'Awkwardness' is a constant topic of conversations on campus.

I usually text "Got a sec?" as my transition line, after a clever text or two. If they say yes, I call them.

Young girls have never had, or very rarely have, solid phone conversations with eligible men. So if you can pull it off, you're a step closer. With online game, chicks were so flakey with me that even a long phone conversation meant little. I think with day game, it's a bit better, as they don't have a constant stream of suitors.

Quote:

Dude, if a girl isn't willing to talk to you on the phone, why would you even want to take her on a date?

Dudes keep talking about text game, as if they're the only ones writing these chicks. These girls get thousands of texts every day from dudes, family, friends, co-workers, etc.

Quote:

But by jumping the gun and asking her out too early he scared her off. Now she won't answer his texts. To borrow Roosh's analogy, he scared the cat.

I disagree. Many girls would not be scared by a text then. He might have had better luck by going text to call.

But some chicks just love texting guys, but would never meet up.

Also in colleges with strong hook-up scenes, going on dates is seen as a little lame. You're slightly lowering your value by asking her out on a date. It's more typical for a girl and her friends to meet up with a guy and his friends, but this leads to absolutely terrible logistics and cockblocking, so the date in college is still superior. Just make it ultra casual - my proposed first date with a chick would often just be a glass of wine in my bedroom. That's extremely creepy by city standards, but it worked in college.

A girl who's in an athlete house probably has a strong social life, and has an aversion to dates, especially with "randos." Girls with very active social lives can be very cliquey, and not open to meeting up with men they don't know or meet through approved channels. After all, they don't need to.

If I were your friend and had a redo, I'd do text to call, and then very casually propose drinks, on a Sunday night when she won't be partying and pregaming. His texts are a little long and try hard too.

Quote:

As for juggling multiple guys, yes it's true for your attention-whoring peroxide blonde skanking it up at the clubs every weekend. But there's just as many girls spending their weekends working on their lab report or staying home watching Twilight. They actually care about school. They don't go out much because they're sick of immature frat dudes and lame inexperienced dorks. They hop on the bus, go to their 80% chick lectures, study at the library, get involved in a club or play some intramural sport, and hop on the bus back home. They're not meeting a lot of new guys. They're the innocent cute "good girls" with tight little 20 yr old bodies who haven't grown calloused because they haven't been pumped and dumped by multiple players. These are the lizards you want to attract when hunting at college campuses.

Haha, spot on. This is why college campuses are amazing. Under 21, little time for cool activities, not rejecting guys left and right. I had my first date from college day game in a long time, and your characterization is accurate. There are plenty of girls who don't drink or even fuck that much. 70% of college students sleep with 0 to 1 person per year.

I recently resumed college day game, and had my first date from it last night, went well. Here is my text convo I used to close her. Some of my better text game, mainly because I had a good theme to run with.

~3 days after meet:

[XXL]

huh : )

one and only "strategy" is to attract and hook hard. that's IT. getting flakes is mainly caused because of not cool/good enough initial impression. and of course there are always some random causes that you have no control over. eveybody knows how some girls always stay busy because they got soooo much "urgent" or "important" things to do like checking tanning salon or other BS

give a good first impression and girls will be more open to meet up again

good luck

[jariel]

(10-01-2011 12:58 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

I usually text "Got a sec?" as my transition line, after a clever text or two. If they say yes, I call them.

I don't like the idea of asking girls questions that they can say no to.

I rather just lead the interaction, instead of "got a sec?", I'd be like, "I'm going to call you so we can talk about this more in detail".

These girls aren't THAT busy, they just are when they choose to be.

[Mace]

(10-01-2011 01:42 PM)jariel Wrote:  

(10-01-2011 12:58 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

I usually text "Got a sec?" as my transition line, after a clever text or two. If they say yes, I call them.

I don't like the idea of asking girls questions that they can say no to.

I rather just lead the interaction, instead of "got a sec?", I'd be like, "I'm going to call you so we can talk about this more in detail".

These girls aren't THAT busy, they just are when they choose to be.

That sounds awkward and pushy. Laconic beats loquacious in text game.

"got a sec?" is tactically brilliant. If she's texting you back promptly why would she say no? Text a non-sequiter, make her laugh, build up momentum, draw compliance, and call. At this point you know she's holding her phone, it would be socially awkward for her NOT to pick up.

Beating college girls at their own game. Brilliant!