[Pointer]

There is a hidden rule among girls that they must refuse the first invitation even if they want to meet you. It's a shit test to check if you're persistent. Your mistake is waiting too long, I would initiate a second invitation within 2 days. If she refuses again and doesn't propose an alternative then it's a bad sign. On the third try you'll know for sure if she was genuinely busy or if she was wasting your time all along.

However, I never delete numbers that have replied to my messages. I've had good success restarting a conversation and getting the bang a few months after being turned down. Girls change their minds all the time.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

"How many times to ask a girl out?"

When I was in my early years of high school I was turned down a lot. So, gradually, I devised a method to avoid this.

What I did was arrange it so that when I was in a convo with a woman, I'd bring up a subject (or an idea) that would prompt her to say either "Let's do that together!" or "Take me next time!"

This can be anything from mentioning you went hiking somewhere to you visited a shooting range, to you know a cool record store, concert club, or restaurant no one else has head of.

What you DON'T want to do is ask her to go with you. What you need to do is dangle the good times in front of her (and allude to you having them with other women), so that she says "That sounds like fun!"

Once a woman has suggests you and her do something, her ego is on the line and she's invested something in you. So, she'll generally behave better.

The problem is getting the conversation to the point where she makes such a suggestion. You need to know how to get there. You can't just walk up to a girl and say "I saw a great concert Friday! Well, bye!!!"

"Getting there" can be like verbal jazz improvisation: Push/pull, leaving "negative space" in the convo (i.e. knowing when to shut up), disqualifying yourself, throwing in left-field surprises, and doing the opposite of what everyone else does.

At the outset, I'd suggest asking questions. People love to talk about themselves. When women do this, it's a good way for you to understand where they're coming from. Maybe they're into sports. Maybe old English literature. So ask away and make mental notes.

I also used to do a surprise comedic bit, I'll share now. This worked for me every time -- but you have to have the right vibe to pull it off.

After you get to know a girl a bit, you walk up to her sheepishly, tell her you need to ask her something important, and then wait a few seconds, as if you're too embarrassed to ask. When she finally makes you ask her, you say "I was wondering if you.......[PAUSE]

....could lend me a quarter for the vending machine."

Usually the girl finds this hysterical. You set her up. She assumed you were going to ask her out, but what you really wanted was some Reese's Peanut Butter Cups.

But what you've also done here is tweaked her subconscious mind and she'll be asking herself "Hey wait...why DIDN'T he ask me out!" This puts her in the mindset that on some level, she wanted to get asked out by you.

It's also a way to build sexual tension, than snap it away immediately with humor. From there, you can develop a running joke each time you see her. This is what would happen with me.

If the girl likes you, she might start making smart-ass suggestions like "So, do you need me to buy you lunch today or lend you money?" To which you can reply "Sure -- take me to Wendy's" or "No, but you can share that dessert with me?"

This leads me to another point. Benjamin Franklin once said that to gain friends you ask for favors. This gives the person an unconscious feeling that they're needed.

So, instead of asking a girl out, ask for the homework assignment you missed. Ask for (more) change to get snacks. Ask if her car has GPS because you need directions to somewhere. A lot of times, this all will lead into further conversations or the aforementioned "running jokes," where it's easy for the two of you to end up at least hanging out.

Another final thing I used to do is break off conversations before their time and purposely not ask for a phone number. On occasion, I'd even refuse a number, claiming "My girlfriend would get pissed" when I had no g/f.

Which leads to this big final point: Try to be seen with a good-looking woman in front of any women you want to date. Pre-selection is a very important thing and goes a long way in making women think you're desirable. People value things that they perceive already have value.

I've droned on a bit too much here, but someday I might write up some "pre-selection" stories from when I was young. I stumbled onto this concept long before the manosphere coined the term. Pre-selection, I think, might be more important than the art of conversation in some ways.

[WannaBang]

So many things I want to say based on the AWESOME responses on this thread. Seriously guys thank you so much for giving me your personal time to write such thought provoking and detailed answers. It is very much appreciated. Every single one have you have said some really interesting and insightful things. What is fascinating is the range of bases your answers have all covered. From having a purely screening mindset to playing the hard-core 'game' approach.

I personally only day game as I always despised night game (because I never had any success) or social circle game (because I was always too low status to be able to do it) and occasionally tinder (which has become significantly worse over the last 2 years to the point where it is almost useless). So stuff like pre-selection and what not is not really an option though I know how effective it is (which kind of depresses me).

I am becoming far more relationship minded and not really looking for ONS. Moreover, unlike in 2016 I am trying to reduce the priority of picking up girls to a lower level as I am now at the stage in life where I want to focus on other things such as making money and living a certain productive lifestyle so the idea of having to use high level game and the 'thrill' of the hunt is not something I am looking for. Personally i don't believe having 'top level' game is going to add 2 points to your sexual market value anyway. Maybe 1 at best but even if I did manage to snag an '8' I would burn myself to the ground having to use 'game' just to maintain her.

I am certainly at the stage where I want to screen out girls who are not interested or just giving their numbers out of politeness or ego boosting purposes so I am only left with girls who are amenable to actually meeting up and don't need Mystery level game to even get out. But at the same time I do not want to lose girls when some unknown error or such is screening out a girl who would in fact meet. For example girls who don't offer alternatives but perhaps are naive and don't know any better. I don't know...Days broken arrow's response is indeed very interesting with regards to this.

[Anchor Man]

(01-19-2018 01:40 PM)Eugenics Wrote:  

Burn the lead to the ground as long as there no social circle repercussions.

One time I got this girls number and built comfort, did the banter thing and tried to flip some attraction switches all day in between work stuff. Every time I would ask her to do something she would conveniently have other plans or whatever. She never actually flaked or I would have dropped it. I did that once or twice a week for a month. It eventually took me friending her on facebook, conscripting my friends girl and having her add her on facebook for a while then mentioning me and talking me up. After knowing this girl for a month or so I eventually bagged her and dated for a while. She actually invited me out in the end.

Another time there was a girl in my social circle but I had enough clout to survive any fallout. She would come out with the boys every few days. I played the push and pull game with her constantly. Eventually I tried to get her to wing for me, we developed a code for girls I found attractive and girls I didn't so she knew if she was wasting her time chatting up some girl and bringing her over. "Watermelons" was good "onion" was bad. On slow nights she'd ask me "any watermelons here Eugenics" and I'd crack a shit eating grin and say "just you [name], whats up with it". Everyone in my social circle tried to fuck her and failed. After about a month she decided to stay over at my house after we were all done going out. Banged. After, my friends asked her what the fuck I did as they all witnessed her staying over. She told them I was aggressive and persistent and it turned her on.

Don't give up if it's something you really want. If it feels off and like she's not being genuine with you though take note as it might never happen. There are more of those stories where I completely failed and wasted a bunch of time, and something always felt wrong during. Never make it your main focus, it should be a downtime sport if anything. And if you develop oneitis during you're burnt go next.

Hi man,

But how did you do it without coming across as needy or desperate ?
I know your looks, status , and value should help you not coming off as needy .

[torridon747]

Jeeze that post feels like it was forever ago.

If a girls listening keep spitting game. Be outcome independent. Don't make it your only focus and as always game other girls. Once again only do this when there's no social repercussions - then who cares how you come off as. Obviously don't double text too much never triple text and if the girl goes ghost leave it alone, don't want to catch a charge or become renowned for being desperate and weird.

. That 2nd girl in my post I relentlessly hit on her whenever there was a spair moment or I was bored. Granted she was the type of girl to play along but I never once got frustrated or gave a single shit if I fucked her or not that night I honestly figured one of my friends would bag her before I did.

I honestly don't bother much with colder leads nowadays. I'll cut some ditzy bitches a little slack if I think they forgot or they just don't think I'm the shit yet but other than that fuck it. These days I usually have more leads to cycle through and less time to play long game.

[Pride male]

Persistence breaks down resistance.

[Mizo1234]

Yes, man . But sometimes , I just like the challenge . But I hear you bro .

[tomzestatlu]

Banging a girl depends on her emotional state.
I usually have girls on Facebook, so I don´t delete them, just don´t text them, if they are not for anything. The whole time they can watch your interesting life and when they get dumped by their boyfriend, they know you are there..

[alexanderjack]

Twice then delete number

[Rhyme or Reason]

(01-21-2018 05:01 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  

Women who want you will make themselves available to you. It's really that simple. If shes dodging you, she doesn't like you. And there is little to nothing you can do to change her mind on that.

Screen, don't convert. This is my motto.

Almost a year later, I've come around more to team convert. What I'm realizing is converting / screening is more of a spectrum than it is a binary,

[Hypno]

Burn the lead to the ground but up the ante each time. Instead of offering to take her somewhere invite her over for a drink or something. Reduce the effort each time

[Anchor Man]

(11-13-2018 12:50 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  

(01-21-2018 05:01 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  

Women who want you will make themselves available to you. It's really that simple. If shes dodging you, she doesn't like you. And there is little to nothing you can do to change her mind on that.

Screen, don't convert. This is my motto.

Almost a year later, I've come around more to team convert. What I'm realizing is converting / screening is more of a spectrum than it is a binary,

What made you change your mind?

[Beirut]

(01-25-2018 08:07 PM)fitness2569 Wrote:  

I agree with Rhyme or Reason. EVERY single girl who i have had to work real hard for and eventually got has always turned around and burned me in the end . The truth is if you are working extra hard to game a girl , you have already fallen into her frame.

The best sex and the best relationships with women I've had in my life have come from girls who showed clear interest in me. That's why I'm a true believer of Screen don't convert.

The truth of the matter is you will NEVER run out of girls ... You can't even possibly approach 1% of the girls in the world or fuck them . Not even 1% so why waste time on girls who don't want to be with you . Screen for interest do not waste time on girls who make you work hard to be with them.

Strive to be her #1 option not her last option. No one in the world gives their #1 option a hard time Male/Female. Be smart

I have the opposite experience. When i worked hard for a girl and she was cold to me at first and eventually got her, i tend to immediately dial back the effort and of course lost half the desire and they ended up pursuing and being attached to me.

I waste time on them because i want them regardless of whether thats mutual from the first second. I like the feeling of seeing a girl and thinking damn i want this girl and then working for it. Its interesting for me regardless of results and i dont see it as a chore.

[Anchor Man]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSrNWJqJI4k

About the abundance mind set

[Hazaer]

It ultimately depends on the person as some of the posters have pointed out,. How much energy do you want to expend on this one girl? I do agree to some extent that once you finding yourself spitting more than a decent amount of game on a girl, you are falling into her frame. She might get attracted temporarily but you don't know if you have a future flake in your hands once you are out of sight. Every guy knows how much on average to put in an interaction to get a favorable response if she is genuinely interested.

Most guys out there are not even approaching 90% of the girls giving out IOIs while walking on the street, in a store or at the opposite end of the bar. Then why bother on the 10% of girls who can't make up their mind?

On a macro scale being persistent is not doing any favors for the next generation of guys. Girls are going to expect more from guys and are going to feel bad putting out quicker if the guy before worked for it.

Not to forget, in this day and age, the girl you turned from a No to a Yes might go back to a No later and regret her choice and we all know how that can turn out for a guy in the worst case scenario.

[Anchor Man]

I am from the persistence camp.

Link to the article below

"Never listen to man-haters aka feminists who claim that women don’t like persistent men. They do. Women love persistent men who are persistent from a position of want, not need. Women don’t love the idea of persistence because they associate it, perhaps justifiably, with overly aggressive meatheads throwing themselves at random vaginas during garbage hour. But now you know that there is better way to be persistent. And that you are doing honor to your alpha male ancestors by pursuing that scared little bunny to the farthest corners of the warren, instead of turning tail the first time the bunny hops away a few feet from your swiping paws."



https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2012/12/...e-quality/